Does it cause overheating or not???
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
Bill, if I was going whole hog on it like that, I would splurge and put
new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
like they do on the stock ones.
New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
for a half day....
The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
that way.
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still kicking
> myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for the
> cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> will be part of it.
>
> I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert Bills
> and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
>
> So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for 2200.00
> out the door including a new clutch.
>
> If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I get so
> I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't destroy
> this new rebuild.
>
> I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help and I
> am learning.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
> me.
> > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
> you
> > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> >
> > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block down
> to
> > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut it
> > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> this
> > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> heads
> > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
> all
> > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
> that
> > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
> but
> > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage plug
> in
> > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> passages
> > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by a
> > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
> get
> > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them if
> > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then clean
> > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to keep
> > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
> bad
> > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> prepped.
> > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending on
> > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
> to
> > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some areas
> > it is a lot tougher.
> >
> > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is time
> > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> measured
> > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> engine
> > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly where,
> > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now and
> > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
> was
> > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had a
> > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made for
> > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> >
> > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for someone.
> > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3 cents
> > (damn inflation).
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > >
> > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of lubrication,
> > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > >
> > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them are
> > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > >
> > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > >
> > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat. It
> > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > >
> > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it
> > to a
> > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > configured
> > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > >
> > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do
> > not
> > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
> to
> > .060
> > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > >
> > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> > engine
> > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> with
> > the
> > > > 4.0L head
> > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> > don't
> > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > >
> > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency with
> > this
> > > > question?
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
> the
> > > > engine quicker?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> >
> >
new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
like they do on the stock ones.
New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
for a half day....
The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
that way.
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still kicking
> myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for the
> cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> will be part of it.
>
> I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert Bills
> and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
>
> So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for 2200.00
> out the door including a new clutch.
>
> If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I get so
> I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't destroy
> this new rebuild.
>
> I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help and I
> am learning.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear with
> me.
> > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal from
> you
> > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> >
> > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to begin
> > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block down
> to
> > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't cut it
> > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> this
> > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> heads
> > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they are
> all
> > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in saying
> that
> > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows what,
> but
> > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage plug
> in
> > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> passages
> > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible by a
> > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy to
> get
> > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them if
> > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing we
> > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then clean
> > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to keep
> > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into how
> bad
> > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them. My
> > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> prepped.
> > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending on
> > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas seem
> to
> > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some areas
> > it is a lot tougher.
> >
> > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is time
> > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> measured
> > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it at
> > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> engine
> > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly where,
> > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough, I'd
> > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now and
> > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed with
> was
> > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We had a
> > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons interchange
> > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made for
> > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> >
> > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for someone.
> > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally. No
> > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3 cents
> > (damn inflation).
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > >
> > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of lubrication,
> > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > >
> > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be somewhere
> > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them are
> > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > >
> > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > >
> > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used 4.0
> > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful, has
> > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat. It
> > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > >
> > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it
> > to a
> > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > configured
> > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > >
> > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do
> > not
> > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore
> to
> > .060
> > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > >
> > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the
> > engine
> > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> with
> > the
> > > > 4.0L head
> > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they
> > don't
> > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > >
> > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency with
> > this
> > > > question?
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life of
> the
> > > > engine quicker?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> >
> >
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
You know I was thinking about that Gas Wash thing and it is highly possible
it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
was lean and pushing more gas into it.
The smell went away after the MPI install.
The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
today.
Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
significant, hugh in fact.
Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
Thanks,
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
>
> You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
>
> Just a guess.
>
> My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> wouldn't do it if it was mine....
>
> I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> boat anchors by folks I trusted.
>
> Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
>
> I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> would on a good rebuilt....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
not
> > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
His
> > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > like that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > I won't disagree.
> > >
> > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > >
> > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > >
> > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
as
> > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
itself
> > > means a different sized friction area.
> > >
> > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
100%
> > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
minimal
> > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
sitting
> > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
not
> > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > >
> > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > down to
> > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut
> > it
> > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
cleaned
> > this
> > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
and
> > heads
> > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > plug in
> > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
passages
> > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
accessible by
> > a
> > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
easy to
> > get
> > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
them
> > if
> > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
racing we
> > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > clean
> > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > keep
> > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
them. My
> > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
depending
> > on
> > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > areas
> > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > >
> > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
is
> > time
> > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
it at
> > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > where,
> > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
now
> > and
> > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had
> > a
> > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
made
> > for
> > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > someone.
> > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
locally. No
> > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > cents
> > > > (damn inflation).
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
thin
> > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > lubrication,
> > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
them
> > are
> > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
cat.
> > It
> > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > shops,
> > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take
> > it
> > > > to a
> > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
be
> > > > configured
> > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > > .060
> > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
even
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > > don't
> > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
consistency
> > with
> > > > this
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
was lean and pushing more gas into it.
The smell went away after the MPI install.
The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
today.
Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
significant, hugh in fact.
Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
Thanks,
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
>
> You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
>
> Just a guess.
>
> My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> wouldn't do it if it was mine....
>
> I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> boat anchors by folks I trusted.
>
> Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
>
> I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> would on a good rebuilt....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
not
> > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
His
> > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > like that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > I won't disagree.
> > >
> > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > >
> > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > >
> > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
as
> > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
itself
> > > means a different sized friction area.
> > >
> > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
100%
> > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
minimal
> > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
sitting
> > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
not
> > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > >
> > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > down to
> > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut
> > it
> > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
cleaned
> > this
> > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
and
> > heads
> > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > plug in
> > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
passages
> > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
accessible by
> > a
> > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
easy to
> > get
> > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
them
> > if
> > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
racing we
> > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > clean
> > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > keep
> > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
them. My
> > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
depending
> > on
> > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > areas
> > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > >
> > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
is
> > time
> > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
it at
> > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > where,
> > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
now
> > and
> > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had
> > a
> > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
made
> > for
> > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > someone.
> > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
locally. No
> > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > cents
> > > > (damn inflation).
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
thin
> > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > lubrication,
> > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
them
> > are
> > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
cat.
> > It
> > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > shops,
> > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take
> > it
> > > > to a
> > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
be
> > > > configured
> > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > > .060
> > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
even
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > > don't
> > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
consistency
> > with
> > > > this
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
You know I was thinking about that Gas Wash thing and it is highly possible
it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
was lean and pushing more gas into it.
The smell went away after the MPI install.
The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
today.
Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
significant, hugh in fact.
Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
Thanks,
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
>
> You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
>
> Just a guess.
>
> My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> wouldn't do it if it was mine....
>
> I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> boat anchors by folks I trusted.
>
> Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
>
> I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> would on a good rebuilt....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
not
> > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
His
> > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > like that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > I won't disagree.
> > >
> > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > >
> > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > >
> > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
as
> > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
itself
> > > means a different sized friction area.
> > >
> > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
100%
> > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
minimal
> > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
sitting
> > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
not
> > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > >
> > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > down to
> > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut
> > it
> > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
cleaned
> > this
> > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
and
> > heads
> > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > plug in
> > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
passages
> > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
accessible by
> > a
> > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
easy to
> > get
> > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
them
> > if
> > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
racing we
> > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > clean
> > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > keep
> > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
them. My
> > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
depending
> > on
> > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > areas
> > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > >
> > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
is
> > time
> > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
it at
> > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > where,
> > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
now
> > and
> > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had
> > a
> > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
made
> > for
> > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > someone.
> > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
locally. No
> > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > cents
> > > > (damn inflation).
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
thin
> > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > lubrication,
> > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
them
> > are
> > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
cat.
> > It
> > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > shops,
> > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take
> > it
> > > > to a
> > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
be
> > > > configured
> > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > > .060
> > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
even
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > > don't
> > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
consistency
> > with
> > > > this
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
was lean and pushing more gas into it.
The smell went away after the MPI install.
The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
today.
Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
significant, hugh in fact.
Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
Thanks,
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
>
> You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
>
> Just a guess.
>
> My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> wouldn't do it if it was mine....
>
> I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> boat anchors by folks I trusted.
>
> Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
>
> I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> would on a good rebuilt....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
not
> > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
His
> > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > like that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > I won't disagree.
> > >
> > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > >
> > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > >
> > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
as
> > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
itself
> > > means a different sized friction area.
> > >
> > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
100%
> > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
minimal
> > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
sitting
> > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
not
> > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > >
> > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > down to
> > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut
> > it
> > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
cleaned
> > this
> > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
and
> > heads
> > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > plug in
> > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
passages
> > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
accessible by
> > a
> > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
easy to
> > get
> > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
them
> > if
> > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
racing we
> > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > clean
> > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > keep
> > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
them. My
> > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
depending
> > on
> > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > areas
> > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > >
> > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
is
> > time
> > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
it at
> > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > where,
> > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
now
> > and
> > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had
> > a
> > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
made
> > for
> > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > someone.
> > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
locally. No
> > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > cents
> > > > (damn inflation).
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
thin
> > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > lubrication,
> > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
them
> > are
> > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
cat.
> > It
> > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > shops,
> > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take
> > it
> > > > to a
> > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
be
> > > > configured
> > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > > .060
> > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
even
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > > don't
> > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
consistency
> > with
> > > > this
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
You know I was thinking about that Gas Wash thing and it is highly possible
it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
was lean and pushing more gas into it.
The smell went away after the MPI install.
The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
today.
Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
significant, hugh in fact.
Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
Thanks,
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
>
> You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
>
> Just a guess.
>
> My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> wouldn't do it if it was mine....
>
> I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> boat anchors by folks I trusted.
>
> Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
>
> I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> would on a good rebuilt....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
not
> > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
His
> > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > like that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > I won't disagree.
> > >
> > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > >
> > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > >
> > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
as
> > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
itself
> > > means a different sized friction area.
> > >
> > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
100%
> > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
minimal
> > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
sitting
> > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
not
> > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > >
> > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > down to
> > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut
> > it
> > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
cleaned
> > this
> > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
and
> > heads
> > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > plug in
> > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
passages
> > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
accessible by
> > a
> > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
easy to
> > get
> > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
them
> > if
> > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
racing we
> > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > clean
> > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > keep
> > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
them. My
> > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
depending
> > on
> > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > areas
> > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > >
> > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
is
> > time
> > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
it at
> > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > where,
> > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
now
> > and
> > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had
> > a
> > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
made
> > for
> > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > someone.
> > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
locally. No
> > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > cents
> > > > (damn inflation).
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
thin
> > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > lubrication,
> > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
them
> > are
> > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
cat.
> > It
> > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > shops,
> > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take
> > it
> > > > to a
> > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
be
> > > > configured
> > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > > .060
> > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
even
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > > don't
> > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
consistency
> > with
> > > > this
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
was lean and pushing more gas into it.
The smell went away after the MPI install.
The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
today.
Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
significant, hugh in fact.
Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
Thanks,
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
>
> You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
>
> Just a guess.
>
> My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> wouldn't do it if it was mine....
>
> I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> boat anchors by folks I trusted.
>
> Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
>
> I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> would on a good rebuilt....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
not
> > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
His
> > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > like that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > I won't disagree.
> > >
> > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > >
> > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > >
> > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
as
> > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
itself
> > > means a different sized friction area.
> > >
> > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
100%
> > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
minimal
> > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
sitting
> > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
not
> > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > >
> > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > down to
> > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut
> > it
> > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
cleaned
> > this
> > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
and
> > heads
> > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > plug in
> > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
passages
> > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
accessible by
> > a
> > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
easy to
> > get
> > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
them
> > if
> > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
racing we
> > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > clean
> > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > keep
> > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
them. My
> > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
depending
> > on
> > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > areas
> > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > >
> > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
is
> > time
> > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
it at
> > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > where,
> > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
now
> > and
> > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had
> > a
> > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
made
> > for
> > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > someone.
> > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
locally. No
> > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > cents
> > > > (damn inflation).
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
thin
> > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > lubrication,
> > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
them
> > are
> > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
cat.
> > It
> > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > shops,
> > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take
> > it
> > > > to a
> > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
be
> > > > configured
> > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > > .060
> > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
even
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > > don't
> > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
consistency
> > with
> > > > this
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
You know I was thinking about that Gas Wash thing and it is highly possible
it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
was lean and pushing more gas into it.
The smell went away after the MPI install.
The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
today.
Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
significant, hugh in fact.
Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
Thanks,
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
>
> You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
>
> Just a guess.
>
> My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> wouldn't do it if it was mine....
>
> I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> boat anchors by folks I trusted.
>
> Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
>
> I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> would on a good rebuilt....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
not
> > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
His
> > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > like that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > I won't disagree.
> > >
> > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > >
> > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > >
> > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
as
> > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
itself
> > > means a different sized friction area.
> > >
> > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
100%
> > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
minimal
> > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
sitting
> > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
not
> > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > >
> > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > down to
> > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut
> > it
> > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
cleaned
> > this
> > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
and
> > heads
> > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > plug in
> > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
passages
> > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
accessible by
> > a
> > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
easy to
> > get
> > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
them
> > if
> > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
racing we
> > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > clean
> > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > keep
> > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
them. My
> > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
depending
> > on
> > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > areas
> > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > >
> > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
is
> > time
> > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
it at
> > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > where,
> > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
now
> > and
> > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had
> > a
> > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
made
> > for
> > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > someone.
> > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
locally. No
> > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > cents
> > > > (damn inflation).
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
thin
> > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > lubrication,
> > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
them
> > are
> > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
cat.
> > It
> > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > shops,
> > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take
> > it
> > > > to a
> > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
be
> > > > configured
> > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > > .060
> > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
even
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > > don't
> > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
consistency
> > with
> > > > this
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
was lean and pushing more gas into it.
The smell went away after the MPI install.
The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
today.
Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
significant, hugh in fact.
Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
Thanks,
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
>
> You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
>
> Just a guess.
>
> My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> wouldn't do it if it was mine....
>
> I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> boat anchors by folks I trusted.
>
> Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
>
> I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> would on a good rebuilt....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
not
> > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
His
> > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > like that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > I won't disagree.
> > >
> > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > >
> > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > >
> > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
as
> > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
itself
> > > means a different sized friction area.
> > >
> > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
100%
> > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
minimal
> > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
sitting
> > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > c wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
not
> > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > >
> > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > down to
> > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut
> > it
> > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
cleaned
> > this
> > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
and
> > heads
> > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > plug in
> > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
passages
> > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
accessible by
> > a
> > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
easy to
> > get
> > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
them
> > if
> > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
racing we
> > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > clean
> > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > keep
> > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
them. My
> > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
depending
> > on
> > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > areas
> > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > >
> > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
is
> > time
> > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
it at
> > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > where,
> > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
now
> > and
> > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had
> > a
> > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
made
> > for
> > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > someone.
> > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
locally. No
> > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > cents
> > > > (damn inflation).
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
thin
> > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > lubrication,
> > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
them
> > are
> > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
cat.
> > It
> > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > shops,
> > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take
> > it
> > > > to a
> > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
be
> > > > configured
> > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > > .060
> > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
even
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > > don't
> > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
consistency
> > with
> > > > this
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
See my other post regarding the Gas Wash.
2200.00 is damn low in this area. Of course that's tow, pull, machine,
replace. That's with the 4.0L head I already have machined setting on my
kitchen floor.
I have:
4.0L head machined and ready to go with water jackets sealed.
4.0L Exhaust Manifold ready to go
So these things the shop don't have to worry about.
They just need to pull the short block (I already have the 4.2L head off),
have it machined, etc, and put it back together.
Again, my problem is not an engine puller, it's my appt. complex I live in.
My appt manager will freak (I think) if he sees me pulling an engine.
That's the big fig as they say so I'm stuck as it is.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBDC9.DEDA910E@sympatico.ca...
> Bill, if I was going whole hog on it like that, I would splurge and put
> new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
> like they do on the stock ones.
>
> New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
>
> Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
> fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
> for a half day....
>
> The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
> Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
> that way.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still
kicking
> > myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for
the
> > cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> > another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> > will be part of it.
> >
> > I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert
Bills
> > and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
> >
> > So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for
2200.00
> > out the door including a new clutch.
> >
> > If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I
get so
> > I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't
destroy
> > this new rebuild.
> >
> > I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help
and I
> > am learning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > >
> > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down
> > to
> > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut it
> > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> > this
> > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> > heads
> > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug
> > in
> > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible
by a
> > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy
to
> > get
> > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing
we
> > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them.
My
> > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > > it is a lot tougher.
> > >
> > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it
at
> > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had a
> > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > >
> > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally.
No
> > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > > (damn inflation).
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > >
> > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > >
> > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > >
> > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take it
> > > to a
> > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > > configured
> > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they do
> > > not
> > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > .060
> > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > engine
> > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > don't
> > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > > this
> > > > > question?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
2200.00 is damn low in this area. Of course that's tow, pull, machine,
replace. That's with the 4.0L head I already have machined setting on my
kitchen floor.
I have:
4.0L head machined and ready to go with water jackets sealed.
4.0L Exhaust Manifold ready to go
So these things the shop don't have to worry about.
They just need to pull the short block (I already have the 4.2L head off),
have it machined, etc, and put it back together.
Again, my problem is not an engine puller, it's my appt. complex I live in.
My appt manager will freak (I think) if he sees me pulling an engine.
That's the big fig as they say so I'm stuck as it is.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBDC9.DEDA910E@sympatico.ca...
> Bill, if I was going whole hog on it like that, I would splurge and put
> new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
> like they do on the stock ones.
>
> New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
>
> Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
> fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
> for a half day....
>
> The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
> Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
> that way.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still
kicking
> > myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for
the
> > cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> > another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> > will be part of it.
> >
> > I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert
Bills
> > and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
> >
> > So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for
2200.00
> > out the door including a new clutch.
> >
> > If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I
get so
> > I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't
destroy
> > this new rebuild.
> >
> > I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help
and I
> > am learning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > >
> > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down
> > to
> > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut it
> > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> > this
> > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> > heads
> > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug
> > in
> > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible
by a
> > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy
to
> > get
> > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing
we
> > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them.
My
> > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > > it is a lot tougher.
> > >
> > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it
at
> > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had a
> > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > >
> > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally.
No
> > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > > (damn inflation).
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > >
> > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > >
> > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > >
> > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take it
> > > to a
> > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > > configured
> > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they do
> > > not
> > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > .060
> > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > engine
> > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > don't
> > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > > this
> > > > > question?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
See my other post regarding the Gas Wash.
2200.00 is damn low in this area. Of course that's tow, pull, machine,
replace. That's with the 4.0L head I already have machined setting on my
kitchen floor.
I have:
4.0L head machined and ready to go with water jackets sealed.
4.0L Exhaust Manifold ready to go
So these things the shop don't have to worry about.
They just need to pull the short block (I already have the 4.2L head off),
have it machined, etc, and put it back together.
Again, my problem is not an engine puller, it's my appt. complex I live in.
My appt manager will freak (I think) if he sees me pulling an engine.
That's the big fig as they say so I'm stuck as it is.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBDC9.DEDA910E@sympatico.ca...
> Bill, if I was going whole hog on it like that, I would splurge and put
> new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
> like they do on the stock ones.
>
> New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
>
> Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
> fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
> for a half day....
>
> The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
> Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
> that way.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still
kicking
> > myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for
the
> > cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> > another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> > will be part of it.
> >
> > I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert
Bills
> > and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
> >
> > So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for
2200.00
> > out the door including a new clutch.
> >
> > If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I
get so
> > I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't
destroy
> > this new rebuild.
> >
> > I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help
and I
> > am learning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > >
> > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down
> > to
> > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut it
> > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> > this
> > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> > heads
> > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug
> > in
> > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible
by a
> > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy
to
> > get
> > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing
we
> > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them.
My
> > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > > it is a lot tougher.
> > >
> > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it
at
> > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had a
> > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > >
> > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally.
No
> > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > > (damn inflation).
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > >
> > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > >
> > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > >
> > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take it
> > > to a
> > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > > configured
> > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they do
> > > not
> > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > .060
> > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > engine
> > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > don't
> > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > > this
> > > > > question?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
2200.00 is damn low in this area. Of course that's tow, pull, machine,
replace. That's with the 4.0L head I already have machined setting on my
kitchen floor.
I have:
4.0L head machined and ready to go with water jackets sealed.
4.0L Exhaust Manifold ready to go
So these things the shop don't have to worry about.
They just need to pull the short block (I already have the 4.2L head off),
have it machined, etc, and put it back together.
Again, my problem is not an engine puller, it's my appt. complex I live in.
My appt manager will freak (I think) if he sees me pulling an engine.
That's the big fig as they say so I'm stuck as it is.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBDC9.DEDA910E@sympatico.ca...
> Bill, if I was going whole hog on it like that, I would splurge and put
> new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
> like they do on the stock ones.
>
> New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
>
> Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
> fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
> for a half day....
>
> The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
> Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
> that way.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still
kicking
> > myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for
the
> > cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> > another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> > will be part of it.
> >
> > I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert
Bills
> > and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
> >
> > So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for
2200.00
> > out the door including a new clutch.
> >
> > If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I
get so
> > I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't
destroy
> > this new rebuild.
> >
> > I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help
and I
> > am learning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > >
> > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down
> > to
> > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut it
> > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> > this
> > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> > heads
> > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug
> > in
> > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible
by a
> > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy
to
> > get
> > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing
we
> > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them.
My
> > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > > it is a lot tougher.
> > >
> > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it
at
> > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had a
> > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > >
> > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally.
No
> > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > > (damn inflation).
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > >
> > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > >
> > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > >
> > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take it
> > > to a
> > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > > configured
> > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they do
> > > not
> > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > .060
> > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > engine
> > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > don't
> > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > > this
> > > > > question?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
See my other post regarding the Gas Wash.
2200.00 is damn low in this area. Of course that's tow, pull, machine,
replace. That's with the 4.0L head I already have machined setting on my
kitchen floor.
I have:
4.0L head machined and ready to go with water jackets sealed.
4.0L Exhaust Manifold ready to go
So these things the shop don't have to worry about.
They just need to pull the short block (I already have the 4.2L head off),
have it machined, etc, and put it back together.
Again, my problem is not an engine puller, it's my appt. complex I live in.
My appt manager will freak (I think) if he sees me pulling an engine.
That's the big fig as they say so I'm stuck as it is.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBDC9.DEDA910E@sympatico.ca...
> Bill, if I was going whole hog on it like that, I would splurge and put
> new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
> like they do on the stock ones.
>
> New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
>
> Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
> fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
> for a half day....
>
> The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
> Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
> that way.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still
kicking
> > myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for
the
> > cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> > another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> > will be part of it.
> >
> > I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert
Bills
> > and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
> >
> > So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for
2200.00
> > out the door including a new clutch.
> >
> > If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I
get so
> > I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't
destroy
> > this new rebuild.
> >
> > I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help
and I
> > am learning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > >
> > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down
> > to
> > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut it
> > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> > this
> > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> > heads
> > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug
> > in
> > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible
by a
> > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy
to
> > get
> > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing
we
> > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them.
My
> > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > > it is a lot tougher.
> > >
> > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it
at
> > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had a
> > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > >
> > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally.
No
> > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > > (damn inflation).
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > >
> > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > >
> > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > >
> > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take it
> > > to a
> > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > > configured
> > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they do
> > > not
> > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > .060
> > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > engine
> > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > don't
> > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > > this
> > > > > question?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
2200.00 is damn low in this area. Of course that's tow, pull, machine,
replace. That's with the 4.0L head I already have machined setting on my
kitchen floor.
I have:
4.0L head machined and ready to go with water jackets sealed.
4.0L Exhaust Manifold ready to go
So these things the shop don't have to worry about.
They just need to pull the short block (I already have the 4.2L head off),
have it machined, etc, and put it back together.
Again, my problem is not an engine puller, it's my appt. complex I live in.
My appt manager will freak (I think) if he sees me pulling an engine.
That's the big fig as they say so I'm stuck as it is.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBDC9.DEDA910E@sympatico.ca...
> Bill, if I was going whole hog on it like that, I would splurge and put
> new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
> like they do on the stock ones.
>
> New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
>
> Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
> fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
> for a half day....
>
> The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
> Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
> that way.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still
kicking
> > myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for
the
> > cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> > another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> > will be part of it.
> >
> > I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert
Bills
> > and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
> >
> > So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for
2200.00
> > out the door including a new clutch.
> >
> > If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I
get so
> > I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't
destroy
> > this new rebuild.
> >
> > I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help
and I
> > am learning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > >
> > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down
> > to
> > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut it
> > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> > this
> > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> > heads
> > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug
> > in
> > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible
by a
> > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy
to
> > get
> > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing
we
> > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them.
My
> > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > > it is a lot tougher.
> > >
> > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it
at
> > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had a
> > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > >
> > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally.
No
> > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > > (damn inflation).
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > >
> > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > >
> > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > >
> > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take it
> > > to a
> > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > > configured
> > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they do
> > > not
> > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > .060
> > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > engine
> > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > don't
> > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > > this
> > > > > question?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
See my other post regarding the Gas Wash.
2200.00 is damn low in this area. Of course that's tow, pull, machine,
replace. That's with the 4.0L head I already have machined setting on my
kitchen floor.
I have:
4.0L head machined and ready to go with water jackets sealed.
4.0L Exhaust Manifold ready to go
So these things the shop don't have to worry about.
They just need to pull the short block (I already have the 4.2L head off),
have it machined, etc, and put it back together.
Again, my problem is not an engine puller, it's my appt. complex I live in.
My appt manager will freak (I think) if he sees me pulling an engine.
That's the big fig as they say so I'm stuck as it is.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBDC9.DEDA910E@sympatico.ca...
> Bill, if I was going whole hog on it like that, I would splurge and put
> new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
> like they do on the stock ones.
>
> New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
>
> Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
> fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
> for a half day....
>
> The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
> Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
> that way.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still
kicking
> > myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for
the
> > cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> > another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> > will be part of it.
> >
> > I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert
Bills
> > and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
> >
> > So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for
2200.00
> > out the door including a new clutch.
> >
> > If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I
get so
> > I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't
destroy
> > this new rebuild.
> >
> > I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help
and I
> > am learning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > >
> > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down
> > to
> > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut it
> > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> > this
> > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> > heads
> > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug
> > in
> > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible
by a
> > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy
to
> > get
> > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing
we
> > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them.
My
> > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > > it is a lot tougher.
> > >
> > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it
at
> > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had a
> > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > >
> > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally.
No
> > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > > (damn inflation).
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > >
> > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > >
> > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > >
> > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take it
> > > to a
> > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > > configured
> > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they do
> > > not
> > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > .060
> > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > engine
> > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > don't
> > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > > this
> > > > > question?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
2200.00 is damn low in this area. Of course that's tow, pull, machine,
replace. That's with the 4.0L head I already have machined setting on my
kitchen floor.
I have:
4.0L head machined and ready to go with water jackets sealed.
4.0L Exhaust Manifold ready to go
So these things the shop don't have to worry about.
They just need to pull the short block (I already have the 4.2L head off),
have it machined, etc, and put it back together.
Again, my problem is not an engine puller, it's my appt. complex I live in.
My appt manager will freak (I think) if he sees me pulling an engine.
That's the big fig as they say so I'm stuck as it is.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:407DBDC9.DEDA910E@sympatico.ca...
> Bill, if I was going whole hog on it like that, I would splurge and put
> new injectors in it. If they will fit I hear Mustang 5.0 ones work good
> like they do on the stock ones.
>
> New injectors would sure eliminate any more gas wash....
>
> Oh, our local 'rentall' places rent engine pullers. They come apart and
> fit in a trunk and back seat of any car and go for something like $40.00
> for a half day....
>
> The unit also will let you pull the engine and stuff it in the back of a
> Cherokee or something to take it in for work. I have transported one
> that way.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Chris, thank you for the rebuild help if you were closer. I'm still
kicking
> > myself for not having a place to pull the engine myself. Not only for
the
> > cash savings but for the educational value. I expect to have this CJ or
> > another like if for a long time and pulling an engine when it comes time
> > will be part of it.
> >
> > I have been given several references to good machine shops by Robert
Bills
> > and JeepsRUs locally I still have the problem of pulling the engine.
> >
> > So, I have found a guy locally whom I trust who will do the R&R for
2200.00
> > out the door including a new clutch.
> >
> > If I'm having gas wash like Mike said it doesn't matter what engine I
get so
> > I will have that looked at right away after the rebuild so I don't
destroy
> > this new rebuild.
> >
> > I appreciate you, Mike, Bill, Robert and others for the continued help
and I
> > am learning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:M_ffc.48045$YC5.6843@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm not
> > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
with
> > me.
> > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
from
> > you
> > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > >
> > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
begin
> > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
down
> > to
> > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
cut it
> > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been cleaned
> > this
> > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks and
> > heads
> > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
are
> > all
> > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
saying
> > that
> > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
what,
> > but
> > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
plug
> > in
> > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the passages
> > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > passages
> > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is accessible
by a
> > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is easy
to
> > get
> > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled them
if
> > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for racing
we
> > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
clean
> > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
keep
> > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
how
> > bad
> > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to them.
My
> > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > prepped.
> > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but depending
on
> > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
seem
> > to
> > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
areas
> > > it is a lot tougher.
> > >
> > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it is
time
> > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > measured
> > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block it
at
> > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > engine
> > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
where,
> > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
I'd
> > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby now
and
> > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
with
> > was
> > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
had a
> > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
interchange
> > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons made
for
> > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > >
> > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
someone.
> > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something locally.
No
> > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
cents
> > > (damn inflation).
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > >
> > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes thin
> > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
lubrication,
> > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
somewhere
> > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of them
are
> > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > >
> > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > >
> > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
4.0
> > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
has
> > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded cat.
It
> > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
shops,
> > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > >
> > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
take it
> > > to a
> > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be
> > > configured
> > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
they do
> > > not
> > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
bore
> > to
> > > .060
> > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
the
> > > engine
> > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
they
> > > don't
> > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no consistency
with
> > > this
> > > > > question?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
of
> > the
> > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Does it cause overheating or not???
That makes sense, that kind of wear takes a while and it sure doesn't
take too much gas to really mess up oil for lube factor. The smell
too...
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> You know I was thinking about that Gas Wash thing and it is highly possible
> it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
> reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
> until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
> good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
> had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
> it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
> was lean and pushing more gas into it.
>
> The smell went away after the MPI install.
>
> The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
> multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
> today.
>
> Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
> account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
> significant, hugh in fact.
>
> Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
> right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> > Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
> >
> > You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> > block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> > in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> > Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> > 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
> >
> > Just a guess.
> >
> > My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> > wouldn't do it if it was mine....
> >
> > I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> > mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> > temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> > boat anchors by folks I trusted.
> >
> > Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
> >
> > I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> > would on a good rebuilt....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
> not
> > > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
> His
> > > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > > like that?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > I won't disagree.
> > > >
> > > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > > >
> > > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > > >
> > > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
> as
> > > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
> itself
> > > > means a different sized friction area.
> > > >
> > > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
> 100%
> > > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
> minimal
> > > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
> sitting
> > > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > c wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
> not
> > > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
> with
> > > me.
> > > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
> from
> > > you
> > > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
> begin
> > > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > > down to
> > > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
> cut
> > > it
> > > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
> cleaned
> > > this
> > > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
> and
> > > heads
> > > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
> are
> > > all
> > > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
> saying
> > > that
> > > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
> what,
> > > but
> > > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > > plug in
> > > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
> passages
> > > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > > passages
> > > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
> accessible by
> > > a
> > > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
> easy to
> > > get
> > > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
> them
> > > if
> > > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
> racing we
> > > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > > clean
> > > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > > keep
> > > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
> how
> > > bad
> > > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
> them. My
> > > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > > prepped.
> > > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
> depending
> > > on
> > > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
> seem
> > > to
> > > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > > areas
> > > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > > >
> > > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
> is
> > > time
> > > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > > measured
> > > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
> it at
> > > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > > engine
> > > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > > where,
> > > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
> I'd
> > > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
> now
> > > and
> > > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
> with
> > > was
> > > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
> had
> > > a
> > > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
> interchange
> > > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
> made
> > > for
> > > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > > someone.
> > > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
> locally. No
> > > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > > cents
> > > > > (damn inflation).
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
> thin
> > > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > > lubrication,
> > > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
> somewhere
> > > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
> them
> > > are
> > > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
> 4.0
> > > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
> has
> > > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
> cat.
> > > It
> > > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > > shops,
> > > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
> take
> > > it
> > > > > to a
> > > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
> be
> > > > > configured
> > > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
> they
> > > do
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
> bore
> > > to
> > > > > .060
> > > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
> the
> > > > > engine
> > > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
> even
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
> they
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
> consistency
> > > with
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > question?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
take too much gas to really mess up oil for lube factor. The smell
too...
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> You know I was thinking about that Gas Wash thing and it is highly possible
> it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
> reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
> until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
> good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
> had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
> it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
> was lean and pushing more gas into it.
>
> The smell went away after the MPI install.
>
> The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
> multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
> today.
>
> Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
> account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
> significant, hugh in fact.
>
> Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
> right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> > Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
> >
> > You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> > block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> > in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> > Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> > 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
> >
> > Just a guess.
> >
> > My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> > wouldn't do it if it was mine....
> >
> > I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> > mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> > temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> > boat anchors by folks I trusted.
> >
> > Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
> >
> > I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> > would on a good rebuilt....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
> not
> > > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
> His
> > > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > > like that?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > I won't disagree.
> > > >
> > > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > > >
> > > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > > >
> > > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
> as
> > > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
> itself
> > > > means a different sized friction area.
> > > >
> > > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
> 100%
> > > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
> minimal
> > > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
> sitting
> > > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > c wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
> not
> > > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
> with
> > > me.
> > > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
> from
> > > you
> > > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
> begin
> > > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > > down to
> > > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
> cut
> > > it
> > > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
> cleaned
> > > this
> > > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
> and
> > > heads
> > > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
> are
> > > all
> > > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
> saying
> > > that
> > > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
> what,
> > > but
> > > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > > plug in
> > > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
> passages
> > > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > > passages
> > > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
> accessible by
> > > a
> > > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
> easy to
> > > get
> > > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
> them
> > > if
> > > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
> racing we
> > > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > > clean
> > > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > > keep
> > > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
> how
> > > bad
> > > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
> them. My
> > > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > > prepped.
> > > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
> depending
> > > on
> > > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
> seem
> > > to
> > > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > > areas
> > > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > > >
> > > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
> is
> > > time
> > > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > > measured
> > > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
> it at
> > > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > > engine
> > > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > > where,
> > > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
> I'd
> > > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
> now
> > > and
> > > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
> with
> > > was
> > > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
> had
> > > a
> > > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
> interchange
> > > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
> made
> > > for
> > > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > > someone.
> > > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
> locally. No
> > > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > > cents
> > > > > (damn inflation).
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
> thin
> > > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > > lubrication,
> > > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
> somewhere
> > > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
> them
> > > are
> > > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
> 4.0
> > > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
> has
> > > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
> cat.
> > > It
> > > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > > shops,
> > > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
> take
> > > it
> > > > > to a
> > > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
> be
> > > > > configured
> > > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
> they
> > > do
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
> bore
> > > to
> > > > > .060
> > > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
> the
> > > > > engine
> > > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
> even
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
> they
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
> consistency
> > > with
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > question?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,