Mike Romain

That makes sense, that kind of wear takes a while and it sure doesn't
take too much gas to really mess up oil for lube factor. The smell
too...

Mike

William Oliveri wrote:
>
> You know I was thinking about that Gas Wash thing and it is highly possible
> it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
> reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
> until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
> good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
> had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
> it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
> was lean and pushing more gas into it.
>
> The smell went away after the MPI install.
>
> The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
> multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
> today.
>
> Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
> account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
> significant, hugh in fact.
>
> Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
> right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> > Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
> >
> > You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> > block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> > in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> > Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> > 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
> >
> > Just a guess.
> >
> > My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> > wouldn't do it if it was mine....
> >
> > I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> > mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> > temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> > boat anchors by folks I trusted.
> >
> > Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
> >
> > I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> > would on a good rebuilt....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
> not
> > > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
> His
> > > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > > like that?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > I won't disagree.
> > > >
> > > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > > >
> > > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > > >
> > > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
> as
> > > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
> itself
> > > > means a different sized friction area.
> > > >
> > > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
> 100%
> > > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
> minimal
> > > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
> sitting
> > > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > c wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
> not
> > > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
> with
> > > me.
> > > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
> from
> > > you
> > > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
> begin
> > > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > > down to
> > > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
> cut
> > > it
> > > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
> cleaned
> > > this
> > > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
> and
> > > heads
> > > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
> are
> > > all
> > > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
> saying
> > > that
> > > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
> what,
> > > but
> > > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > > plug in
> > > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
> passages
> > > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > > passages
> > > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
> accessible by
> > > a
> > > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
> easy to
> > > get
> > > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
> them
> > > if
> > > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
> racing we
> > > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > > clean
> > > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > > keep
> > > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
> how
> > > bad
> > > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
> them. My
> > > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > > prepped.
> > > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
> depending
> > > on
> > > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
> seem
> > > to
> > > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > > areas
> > > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > > >
> > > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
> is
> > > time
> > > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > > measured
> > > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
> it at
> > > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > > engine
> > > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > > where,
> > > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
> I'd
> > > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
> now
> > > and
> > > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
> with
> > > was
> > > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
> had
> > > a
> > > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
> interchange
> > > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
> made
> > > for
> > > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > > someone.
> > > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
> locally. No
> > > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > > cents
> > > > > (damn inflation).
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
> thin
> > > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > > lubrication,
> > > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
> somewhere
> > > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
> them
> > > are
> > > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
> 4.0
> > > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
> has
> > > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
> cat.
> > > It
> > > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > > shops,
> > > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
> take
> > > it
> > > > > to a
> > > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
> be
> > > > > configured
> > > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
> they
> > > do
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
> bore
> > > to
> > > > > .060
> > > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
> the
> > > > > engine
> > > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
> even
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
> they
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
> consistency
> > > with
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > question?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,

Mike Romain

That makes sense, that kind of wear takes a while and it sure doesn't
take too much gas to really mess up oil for lube factor. The smell
too...

Mike

William Oliveri wrote:
>
> You know I was thinking about that Gas Wash thing and it is highly possible
> it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
> reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
> until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
> good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
> had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
> it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
> was lean and pushing more gas into it.
>
> The smell went away after the MPI install.
>
> The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
> multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
> today.
>
> Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
> account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
> significant, hugh in fact.
>
> Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
> right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> > Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
> >
> > You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> > block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> > in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> > Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> > 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
> >
> > Just a guess.
> >
> > My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> > wouldn't do it if it was mine....
> >
> > I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> > mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> > temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> > boat anchors by folks I trusted.
> >
> > Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
> >
> > I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> > would on a good rebuilt....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
> not
> > > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
> His
> > > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > > like that?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > I won't disagree.
> > > >
> > > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > > >
> > > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > > >
> > > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
> as
> > > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
> itself
> > > > means a different sized friction area.
> > > >
> > > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
> 100%
> > > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
> minimal
> > > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
> sitting
> > > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > c wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
> not
> > > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
> with
> > > me.
> > > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
> from
> > > you
> > > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
> begin
> > > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > > down to
> > > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
> cut
> > > it
> > > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
> cleaned
> > > this
> > > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
> and
> > > heads
> > > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
> are
> > > all
> > > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
> saying
> > > that
> > > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
> what,
> > > but
> > > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > > plug in
> > > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
> passages
> > > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > > passages
> > > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
> accessible by
> > > a
> > > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
> easy to
> > > get
> > > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
> them
> > > if
> > > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
> racing we
> > > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > > clean
> > > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > > keep
> > > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
> how
> > > bad
> > > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
> them. My
> > > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > > prepped.
> > > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
> depending
> > > on
> > > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
> seem
> > > to
> > > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > > areas
> > > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > > >
> > > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
> is
> > > time
> > > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > > measured
> > > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
> it at
> > > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > > engine
> > > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > > where,
> > > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
> I'd
> > > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
> now
> > > and
> > > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
> with
> > > was
> > > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
> had
> > > a
> > > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
> interchange
> > > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
> made
> > > for
> > > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > > someone.
> > > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
> locally. No
> > > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > > cents
> > > > > (damn inflation).
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
> thin
> > > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > > lubrication,
> > > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
> somewhere
> > > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
> them
> > > are
> > > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
> 4.0
> > > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
> has
> > > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
> cat.
> > > It
> > > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > > shops,
> > > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
> take
> > > it
> > > > > to a
> > > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
> be
> > > > > configured
> > > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
> they
> > > do
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
> bore
> > > to
> > > > > .060
> > > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
> the
> > > > > engine
> > > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
> even
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
> they
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
> consistency
> > > with
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > question?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,

Mike Romain

That makes sense, that kind of wear takes a while and it sure doesn't
take too much gas to really mess up oil for lube factor. The smell
too...

Mike

William Oliveri wrote:
>
> You know I was thinking about that Gas Wash thing and it is highly possible
> it came from the previous Carb setup before and after I picked it up. The
> reason I say this is it had a rich gas smell I just couldn't get rid of
> until I put the MPI kit on it. I changed out the O2 sensor and it did no
> good. I noticed when I was installing the MPI kit that the exhaust manifold
> had about 70% or so of the manifold bolts holding the exhaust manifold on
> it. So it could have been drawing air in confusing the O2 sensor thing it
> was lean and pushing more gas into it.
>
> The smell went away after the MPI install.
>
> The previous owner had the overhaul in 97 if I remember correctly so
> multiple years running like could have brought me my engine as we see it
> today.
>
> Your information regarding the my block is good and I will take it into
> account. Especially since you are talking double the miles. That is
> significant, hugh in fact.
>
> Summer's here and I'm itching to get back into the beast but I want to do it
> right so I'll wait a bit before I make my decision.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:407DBAAB.A95DEC9F@sympatico.ca...
> > Ahh, ok, sorry about that, yup confused the threads.
> >
> > You can buy pistons for any of the common (over)bores for that type of
> > block. .058 is .002 off the max so it kinda makes sense. A .058 piston
> > in a .060 cylinder bore maybe even. The .060 rings likely fit both...
> > Maybe that's all they could find? Who knows when it comes to a
> > 'rebuilt' unless you do it yourself.
> >
> > Just a guess.
> >
> > My opinion on the old block and rebuilding it twice still stands. 'I'
> > wouldn't do it if it was mine....
> >
> > I also think of your engine as being a gas washed worn out one, in my
> > mind that makes it a boat anchor. Heat happens with all that wear and
> > temper is affected maybe, I don't know, just always was told they were
> > boat anchors by folks I trusted.
> >
> > Used low mileage engines can be great and sometimes found cheap.
> >
> > I figure I will get twice the miles out of my $400.00 used engine then I
> > would on a good rebuilt....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike, you are confusing two different theads. My pistons are marked 40,
> not
> > > 58. I was looking at a possible doner engine instead of using mine.
> His
> > > pistons are marked 58 which I didn't understand. Have you seen anything
> > > like that?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:407D92EF.B1D771C4@sympatico.ca...
> > > > I won't disagree.
> > > >
> > > > Finding the right rebuilder and being prepared to spend the money and
> > > > just about anything can be cleaned up properly. I have just seen too
> > > > many lazy workers so get a bit cynical sometimes....
> > > >
> > > > I have doubts about the information he is getting sometimes. His
> > > > pistons are marked 58 so I don't know where the .040 over comes from.
> > > >
> > > > I don't mind a rebuilt once engine although they normally won't last
> as
> > > > long as a factory original. Rebuilt twice, well.... Turned parts
> > > > aren't near as perfect as the factory ones 'usually' and the turn
> itself
> > > > means a different sized friction area.
> > > >
> > > > Given a choice, I would, well I actually I did choose the used engine
> > > > with Low, 40K miles vs rebuilding my 258 myself. My old 258 is in
> 100%
> > > > better shape than Bills even still. I inspected it and there is
> minimal
> > > > bearing wear, it just leaked like a pincusion. I still have it
> sitting
> > > > in my garage and likely will take my time and do it up pretty.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > c wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike, I have to partially agree and disagree with you on this. I'm
> not
> > > > > trying to start a flame war or argument or anything, so please bear
> with
> > > me.
> > > > > I will say that I read all your posts and have learned a great deal
> from
> > > you
> > > > > and I respect your opinions and advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > If an engine block is properly cleaned and checked before and after
> > > > > machining, it really doesn't matter how dirty or gritty it was to
> begin
> > > > > with. The key phrase here being "properly cleaned". Taking the block
> > > down to
> > > > > the local car wash and spending $2 on a quicky cleaning job doesn't
> cut
> > > it
> > > > > obviously, although I hate to count how many engines have been
> cleaned
> > > this
> > > > > way. There are several ways that engine shops are cleaning blocks
> and
> > > heads
> > > > > these days, including hot taning, pressure jet solvent washers, and
> > > > > vibratory baking cleaners. No matter which process is used, and they
> are
> > > all
> > > > > effective, there is still much work to be done. You are right in
> saying
> > > that
> > > > > there are oil passages that are probably crudded up with God knows
> what,
> > > but
> > > > > a good engine shop will deal with that by removing every oil passage
> > > plug in
> > > > > the block and running stiff, nylon cleaning brushes thru the
> passages
> > > > > several times with both solvent, and then hot soapy water until the
> > > passages
> > > > > are all spotless. Every oil pressure passage in a block is
> accessible by
> > > a
> > > > > brush since they were originally drilled from the factory. It is
> easy to
> > > get
> > > > > these blocks cleaner than they were the day the factory assembled
> them
> > > if
> > > > > the time is taken. Heck, on the small block Chevys I build for
> racing we
> > > > > actually enlarge many of the passages with very long drills and then
> > > clean
> > > > > them meticulously afterwards. These particular engines are noted for
> > > > > starving the main bearings at very high RPM, so in order for them to
> > > keep
> > > > > the bearings in them it is almost a necessity. I won't even get into
> how
> > > bad
> > > > > the Ford 351C oiling system is and how much needs to be done to
> them. My
> > > > > point here though, is that the block can be used again if properly
> > > prepped.
> > > > > Now, finding a good engine shop to do this may be tough, but
> depending
> > > on
> > > > > the area it might be easier than finding another engine. Some areas
> seem
> > > to
> > > > > have a good supply of either cores or good running engines, but some
> > > areas
> > > > > it is a lot tougher.
> > > > >
> > > > > If his block ends up being .060 overbored already, then I agree it
> is
> > > time
> > > > > for a different block/engine. I don't know if he has had the block
> > > measured
> > > > > or not, so that is the first thing that he should do. If the block
> it at
> > > > > .040, and everything else checks out, then it is time to find a good
> > > engine
> > > > > builder. I think Bill O. is in California, but I'm not sure exactly
> > > where,
> > > > > so I can't help recommend an engine builder. If I were close enough,
> I'd
> > > > > gladly do the rebuild for him. I mostly do engine work as a hobby
> now
> > > and
> > > > > would love to tinker with a 258 or 4.0. The last inline 6 I messed
> with
> > > was
> > > > > a Chev 250 for a hobby stock class oval racer a couple years ago. We
> had
> > > a
> > > > > lot of fun with that once we found out that Chev 307 pistons
> interchange
> > > > > with the 250, and it just so happens that there are 12-1 pistons
> made
> > > for
> > > > > the 307 :-). The rest is history as they say.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, your engine you're selling sounds like a heck of a deal for
> > > someone.
> > > > > Too bad Bill is so far away, but maybe he can find something
> locally. No
> > > > > matter what way he goes, I hope is works out well for him. Just my 3
> > > cents
> > > > > (damn inflation).
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:407D78AC.DEDFDF83@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > If it was mine I would toss that block in the trash.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe all the wear and polished up parts was due to lack of
> > > > > > lubrication because of gas wash. Too much gas in the oil makes
> thin
> > > > > > oil. Your bearings were textbook for a gas wash or lack of
> > > lubrication,
> > > > > > so are the polished cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So in light of that, all the metal that wore away has to be
> somewhere
> > > > > > right? Think of all those little oil passages and how many of
> them
> > > are
> > > > > > blocked or partially blocked with the metal particles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then to make things even more interesting, you think it is a 0.040
> > > > > > overbore with 0.058 overbore pistons in it?????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be checking out the local wreckers for a low mileage used
> 4.0
> > > > > > out of a Cherokee or newer Wrangler. I got one with 40K on it for
> > > > > > $400.00 Canadian. The full long block. The thing runs beautiful,
> has
> > > > > > excellent compression, doesn't burn oil and goes like a scalded
> cat.
> > > It
> > > > > > will pull out fast up to 4500 rpm.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine
> > > shops,
> > > > > > > machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to
> take
> > > it
> > > > > to a
> > > > > > > guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will
> be
> > > > > configured
> > > > > > > with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note
> they
> > > do
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a
> bore
> > > to
> > > > > .060
> > > > > > > over but here's the question, if they do:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause
> the
> > > > > engine
> > > > > > > to run hot or hotter than normal.
> > > > > > > I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem
> even
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > 4.0L head
> > > > > > > I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> > > > > > > I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me
> they
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Am I making myself stupid over this? Why is there no
> consistency
> > > with
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > question?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bottom line, will it run hot with .060 over and degrade the life
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > engine quicker?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,

L0nD0t.$t0we11

Roughly 4/13/04 16:12, William Oliveri's monkeys randomly typed:

> Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
>
> My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it to a
> guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be configured
> with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
>
> A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do not
> have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore to .060
> over but here's the question, if they do:
>
> I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the engine
> to run hot or hotter than normal.
> I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even with the
> 4.0L head
> I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they don't
> send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.

If you want to second check Hesco, send an email to the folks at
Clifford in California.



--
Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate

L0nD0t.$t0we11

Roughly 4/13/04 16:12, William Oliveri's monkeys randomly typed:

> Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
>
> My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it to a
> guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be configured
> with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
>
> A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do not
> have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore to .060
> over but here's the question, if they do:
>
> I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the engine
> to run hot or hotter than normal.
> I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even with the
> 4.0L head
> I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they don't
> send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.

If you want to second check Hesco, send an email to the folks at
Clifford in California.



--
Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate

L0nD0t.$t0we11

Roughly 4/13/04 16:12, William Oliveri's monkeys randomly typed:

> Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
>
> My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it to a
> guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be configured
> with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
>
> A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do not
> have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore to .060
> over but here's the question, if they do:
>
> I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the engine
> to run hot or hotter than normal.
> I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even with the
> 4.0L head
> I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they don't
> send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.

If you want to second check Hesco, send an email to the folks at
Clifford in California.



--
Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate

L0nD0t.$t0we11

Roughly 4/13/04 16:12, William Oliveri's monkeys randomly typed:

> Ok, I have been through the mill talking with mechanics, engine shops,
> machine shops, and Hesco regarding this question.
>
> My 258 short block is at .040 over bore. I'm getting ready to take it to a
> guy for a rebuild to get this puppy back on the road. It will be configured
> with the 4.0L head and the Mopar MPI kit at completion.
>
> A lot of you have seen my cylinders posted on the web and note they do not
> have a ring ridge so there is a possibility they may not need a bore to .060
> over but here's the question, if they do:
>
> I have been told by several mechanics that .060 over will cause the engine
> to run hot or hotter than normal.
> I checked with JeepsRUs and they said .060 will be no problem even with the
> 4.0L head
> I checked with Hesco and they said the same, no problem.
> I just talked to a engine remanufacture shop in LA who told me they don't
> send out anything over .030 because it will run hot.

If you want to second check Hesco, send an email to the folks at
Clifford in California.



--
Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate