William Oliveri

Robert,
Is this the place you're talking about?

Orange Engine Rebuilding
Address: 1911 E Ball Rd, Anaheim, CA 92805
Phone: (714) 635-4030


If not, can you pass me the number and address?

Thanks,

Bill
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040208114851.20582.00001059@mb-m21.aol.com...
> Sounds like valves or head gasket, not rings. Your compression check will
tell
> you.
>
> If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go
with a
> freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder.
Locations in
> Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com

William Oliveri

Robert,
Is this the place you're talking about?

Orange Engine Rebuilding
Address: 1911 E Ball Rd, Anaheim, CA 92805
Phone: (714) 635-4030


If not, can you pass me the number and address?

Thanks,

Bill
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040208114851.20582.00001059@mb-m21.aol.com...
> Sounds like valves or head gasket, not rings. Your compression check will
tell
> you.
>
> If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go
with a
> freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder.
Locations in
> Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com

William Oliveri

No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
after I drive it.




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
> gas related in #2 cylinder?
>
> Mike
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > compression is strange.
> >
> > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > throttle wide open.
> >
> > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > it back together and enjoy!
> >
> > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > the compression again.
> >
> > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> >
> > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > cylinders.
> >
> > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> >
> > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > 500 miles.
> >
> > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > was told it was from valve float.)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > >
> > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
requred
> > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out
the
> > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
didn't
> > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
places and
> > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because
I took
> > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing
a
> > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > >
> > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
wasn't this
> > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > >
> > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
compression
> > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > > read which was 150 psi.
> > >
> > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go
and get
> > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing
the
> > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > comes....
> > > >
> > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > > >
> > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
valve
> > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > >
> > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with
the
> > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > >
> > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
valve
> > > seals
> > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > > did
> > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
while I
> > > took
> > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve
I
> > > also
> > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
attached a
> > > long
> > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > > the
> > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > > stem
> > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
which is
> > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > > one
> > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work
I had
> > > done
> > > > > on this valve.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > > a
> > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > > same
> > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > > so
> > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > >
> > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > > leak
> > > > > down is bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > > worse
> > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > > get
> > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go
to
> > > option
> > > > > #2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > > bore
> > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
Turn
> > > around
> > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it
in.
> > > They
> > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > > mile
> > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > >
> > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > warranty.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
scope of
> > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > > RJE
> > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill

William Oliveri

No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
after I drive it.




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
> gas related in #2 cylinder?
>
> Mike
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > compression is strange.
> >
> > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > throttle wide open.
> >
> > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > it back together and enjoy!
> >
> > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > the compression again.
> >
> > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> >
> > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > cylinders.
> >
> > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> >
> > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > 500 miles.
> >
> > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > was told it was from valve float.)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > >
> > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
requred
> > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out
the
> > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
didn't
> > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
places and
> > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because
I took
> > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing
a
> > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > >
> > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
wasn't this
> > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > >
> > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
compression
> > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > > read which was 150 psi.
> > >
> > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go
and get
> > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing
the
> > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > comes....
> > > >
> > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > > >
> > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
valve
> > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > >
> > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with
the
> > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > >
> > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
valve
> > > seals
> > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > > did
> > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
while I
> > > took
> > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve
I
> > > also
> > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
attached a
> > > long
> > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > > the
> > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > > stem
> > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
which is
> > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > > one
> > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work
I had
> > > done
> > > > > on this valve.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > > a
> > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > > same
> > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > > so
> > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > >
> > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > > leak
> > > > > down is bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > > worse
> > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > > get
> > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go
to
> > > option
> > > > > #2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > > bore
> > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
Turn
> > > around
> > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it
in.
> > > They
> > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > > mile
> > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > >
> > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > warranty.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
scope of
> > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > > RJE
> > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill

William Oliveri

No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
after I drive it.




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
> gas related in #2 cylinder?
>
> Mike
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > compression is strange.
> >
> > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > throttle wide open.
> >
> > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > it back together and enjoy!
> >
> > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > the compression again.
> >
> > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> >
> > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > cylinders.
> >
> > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> >
> > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > 500 miles.
> >
> > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > was told it was from valve float.)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > >
> > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
requred
> > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out
the
> > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
didn't
> > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
places and
> > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because
I took
> > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing
a
> > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > >
> > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
wasn't this
> > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > >
> > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
compression
> > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > > read which was 150 psi.
> > >
> > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go
and get
> > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing
the
> > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > comes....
> > > >
> > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > > >
> > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
valve
> > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > >
> > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with
the
> > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > >
> > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
valve
> > > seals
> > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > > did
> > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
while I
> > > took
> > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve
I
> > > also
> > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
attached a
> > > long
> > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > > the
> > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > > stem
> > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
which is
> > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > > one
> > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work
I had
> > > done
> > > > > on this valve.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > > a
> > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > > same
> > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > > so
> > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > >
> > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > > leak
> > > > > down is bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > > worse
> > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > > get
> > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go
to
> > > option
> > > > > #2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > > bore
> > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
Turn
> > > around
> > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it
in.
> > > They
> > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > > mile
> > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > >
> > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > warranty.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
scope of
> > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > > RJE
> > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill

William Oliveri

I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about
the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head?

Thanks,

Bill



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill

William Oliveri

I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about
the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head?

Thanks,

Bill



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill

William Oliveri

I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about
the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head?

Thanks,

Bill



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill

William Oliveri

I guess one thing I could do if it comes down to it is to rebuild the head
and if that doesn't work then have only the short block rebuilt as a follow
up.

Bill

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill

William Oliveri

I guess one thing I could do if it comes down to it is to rebuild the head
and if that doesn't work then have only the short block rebuilt as a follow
up.

Bill

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill