Detroit Vs Japan
#141
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
> For this country to survive, we need people earning good livings. I don't
> just mean a few with college educations, I mean the vast majority of
> everyday people. Then, they pay lots of taxes, the government has money to
> do its job, and the consumer market flourishes and fuels a booming
> economy. Instead, we're trying to rid this country of good paying jobs by
> exporting them somewhere else. I heard a local talk radio host claim that
> we export low paying jobs and gain high paying jobs in the process.
> However, I don't see those jobs lost by GM, Ford, and DC worker to Mexico
> as being low pay.>
Interesting to note that our domestic auto mfrs, particularly GM & Ford,
continue to lose market share (and, hence, jobs) to the Asians. GM, Ford &
DC have shed over 130,000 jobs since 2000. Over the same period, however,
the Asians & Europeans have continued to invest in the "high-cost" USA,
opening new plants and employing thousands of workers. Unfortunately, due to
the built-in inefficiencies of the UAW-bound domestics, they've only
replaced about 30,000 jobs over the same period of time. It should be no
mystery why the UAW has been unsuccessful in organizing the Asian plants,
they simply have nothing to offer the workers but lost income and eventual
unemployment.
> I'm telling you...this trend is dangerous for the economy in the long run.
> It's good for corporate America, but bad for you and I.<
Well, it's not even "Corporate America" any more, most of the companies are
so globally invested we don't even run them.
Back in the late '90's the Ford division I worked for was paying a bunch of
individual systems consultants as much as $175 an hour to write code as part
of a giant "mainframe to client server conversion", common among older
companies all over the world at the time. There was also the old "Y2K"
fiasco that had to be dealt with. Along came Satyam, and Indian company, who
we found could do much more work, and only cost about $20 an hour. The
decision to farm it all out to them was a no-brainer.
> just mean a few with college educations, I mean the vast majority of
> everyday people. Then, they pay lots of taxes, the government has money to
> do its job, and the consumer market flourishes and fuels a booming
> economy. Instead, we're trying to rid this country of good paying jobs by
> exporting them somewhere else. I heard a local talk radio host claim that
> we export low paying jobs and gain high paying jobs in the process.
> However, I don't see those jobs lost by GM, Ford, and DC worker to Mexico
> as being low pay.>
Interesting to note that our domestic auto mfrs, particularly GM & Ford,
continue to lose market share (and, hence, jobs) to the Asians. GM, Ford &
DC have shed over 130,000 jobs since 2000. Over the same period, however,
the Asians & Europeans have continued to invest in the "high-cost" USA,
opening new plants and employing thousands of workers. Unfortunately, due to
the built-in inefficiencies of the UAW-bound domestics, they've only
replaced about 30,000 jobs over the same period of time. It should be no
mystery why the UAW has been unsuccessful in organizing the Asian plants,
they simply have nothing to offer the workers but lost income and eventual
unemployment.
> I'm telling you...this trend is dangerous for the economy in the long run.
> It's good for corporate America, but bad for you and I.<
Well, it's not even "Corporate America" any more, most of the companies are
so globally invested we don't even run them.
Back in the late '90's the Ford division I worked for was paying a bunch of
individual systems consultants as much as $175 an hour to write code as part
of a giant "mainframe to client server conversion", common among older
companies all over the world at the time. There was also the old "Y2K"
fiasco that had to be dealt with. Along came Satyam, and Indian company, who
we found could do much more work, and only cost about $20 an hour. The
decision to farm it all out to them was a no-brainer.
#142
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:429560E6.2EE765E5@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > So W is bringing the Rapture?
> Yes Armageddon has begun, via Afghanistan, and with the nuclear War
> beginning in Syria, and Iran, we'll exterminate the near east, this my
> Bible tells me so.
It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
this lately?
Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
__
Steve
..
news:429560E6.2EE765E5@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > So W is bringing the Rapture?
> Yes Armageddon has begun, via Afghanistan, and with the nuclear War
> beginning in Syria, and Iran, we'll exterminate the near east, this my
> Bible tells me so.
It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
this lately?
Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
__
Steve
..
#143
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:429560E6.2EE765E5@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > So W is bringing the Rapture?
> Yes Armageddon has begun, via Afghanistan, and with the nuclear War
> beginning in Syria, and Iran, we'll exterminate the near east, this my
> Bible tells me so.
It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
this lately?
Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
__
Steve
..
news:429560E6.2EE765E5@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > So W is bringing the Rapture?
> Yes Armageddon has begun, via Afghanistan, and with the nuclear War
> beginning in Syria, and Iran, we'll exterminate the near east, this my
> Bible tells me so.
It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
this lately?
Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
__
Steve
..
#144
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:429560E6.2EE765E5@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > So W is bringing the Rapture?
> Yes Armageddon has begun, via Afghanistan, and with the nuclear War
> beginning in Syria, and Iran, we'll exterminate the near east, this my
> Bible tells me so.
It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
this lately?
Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
__
Steve
..
news:429560E6.2EE765E5@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > So W is bringing the Rapture?
> Yes Armageddon has begun, via Afghanistan, and with the nuclear War
> beginning in Syria, and Iran, we'll exterminate the near east, this my
> Bible tells me so.
It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
this lately?
Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
__
Steve
..
#145
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:429560E6.2EE765E5@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > So W is bringing the Rapture?
> Yes Armageddon has begun, via Afghanistan, and with the nuclear War
> beginning in Syria, and Iran, we'll exterminate the near east, this my
> Bible tells me so.
It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
this lately?
Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
__
Steve
..
news:429560E6.2EE765E5@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > So W is bringing the Rapture?
> Yes Armageddon has begun, via Afghanistan, and with the nuclear War
> beginning in Syria, and Iran, we'll exterminate the near east, this my
> Bible tells me so.
It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
this lately?
Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
__
Steve
..
#146
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Witches are something Salem dreamed up. Most of my ancestors were
pagan, anyway. I just want to use the Bible card to thump the near and
far east. I believe Bush has permission to use the bomb. Let's do it!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Stephen Cowell wrote:
>
> It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
> this lately?
>
> Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
> it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
> __
> Steve
> .
pagan, anyway. I just want to use the Bible card to thump the near and
far east. I believe Bush has permission to use the bomb. Let's do it!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Stephen Cowell wrote:
>
> It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
> this lately?
>
> Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
> it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
> __
> Steve
> .
#147
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Witches are something Salem dreamed up. Most of my ancestors were
pagan, anyway. I just want to use the Bible card to thump the near and
far east. I believe Bush has permission to use the bomb. Let's do it!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Stephen Cowell wrote:
>
> It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
> this lately?
>
> Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
> it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
> __
> Steve
> .
pagan, anyway. I just want to use the Bible card to thump the near and
far east. I believe Bush has permission to use the bomb. Let's do it!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Stephen Cowell wrote:
>
> It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
> this lately?
>
> Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
> it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
> __
> Steve
> .
#148
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Witches are something Salem dreamed up. Most of my ancestors were
pagan, anyway. I just want to use the Bible card to thump the near and
far east. I believe Bush has permission to use the bomb. Let's do it!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Stephen Cowell wrote:
>
> It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
> this lately?
>
> Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
> it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
> __
> Steve
> .
pagan, anyway. I just want to use the Bible card to thump the near and
far east. I believe Bush has permission to use the bomb. Let's do it!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Stephen Cowell wrote:
>
> It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
> this lately?
>
> Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
> it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
> __
> Steve
> .
#149
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Witches are something Salem dreamed up. Most of my ancestors were
pagan, anyway. I just want to use the Bible card to thump the near and
far east. I believe Bush has permission to use the bomb. Let's do it!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Stephen Cowell wrote:
>
> It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
> this lately?
>
> Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
> it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
> __
> Steve
> .
pagan, anyway. I just want to use the Bible card to thump the near and
far east. I believe Bush has permission to use the bomb. Let's do it!
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Stephen Cowell wrote:
>
> It also tells you to kill witches... have you done
> this lately?
>
> Jeez... no wonder we're scared of the current admin....
> it's bent on fulfilling Biblical prophecies!
> __
> Steve
> .
#150
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
In my small community where the major employers are a surface coal
mine, a coal-fired power plant, and two natural gas processing plants,
several real men (and real women) drive Toyota trucks for work and
pleasure, both full-size and smaller-size, even though the nearest
Toyota dealership (and warranty service) is a 2 1/2 hour drive away. I
am also seeing more Nissan trucks than I used to see with the nearest
Nissan dealer being 80 miles away. These are people who use their
trucks as trucks and regularly use 4WD to get to their favorite
hunting, fishing or camping spot or just to see the backcountry. I
asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles. I am currently thinking about
buying a full-sized truck that I will equip with a pop-up camper and
will use to tow the Jeep on the six hour trip to Moab. I have never
owned a Toyota or Nissan or any other Japanese vehicle, but I will
certainly consider them as I shop around. Currently we own a 1997
Buick bought used, a 1998 Volvo bought used and a 1998 TJ bought new.
None have been trouble free but none have needed major repairs (engine,
transmission, air conditioning) either. Overall, I think the Buick has
been the best of the lot. Just my thoughts and observations.
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> Real Truck Owners wouldn't be caught dead in a Japanese pick up truck. I
> suspect the Japanese trucks will sell OK in California, in the cities, but
> out in the country where trucks are trucks and men are men, the domestics
> will rein supreme for a long time to come.
>
>
>
>
> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:feske.130612$AE6.77261@tornado.texas.rr.com.. .
> > Very interesting show on Discovery Times channel last night. Detailed how
> > Japanese auto makers are really going hard after full size pick up truck
> > market. Nissan Titan is making big inroads and so is Honda. Japanese had
> > hard time understanding that Americans just don't like little trucks as
> much
> > as we like big trucks. Looks like they finally "got it" and now Detroit is
> > feeling the pain. PU Truck are some of the most profitable vehicles made
> by
> > Detroit.
> >
> > My own observation: When it comes to innovation the USA has everyone beat.
> > When it comes to refinement that's where we get caught and sometimes
> > surpassed by Japan and Europe to a lesser extent.
> >
> > We can make a Ford Mustang, A Jeep, Dodge Caravan, or a full size PU
> truck
> > but then we seem to get complacent and stop the developing and refinement.
> > That's where the Japanese really get going and make up ground.
> >
> > Ford & Gm bonds at junk status, not good. Auto industry is so resistant to
> > change and so slow to react to market forces. UAW not helping the issue
> > either.
> >
> > Interesting show if you get a chance to see it. Car designers are very
> > different people. Very artsy. They need engineers to keep them in reality
> :)
> >
> >
mine, a coal-fired power plant, and two natural gas processing plants,
several real men (and real women) drive Toyota trucks for work and
pleasure, both full-size and smaller-size, even though the nearest
Toyota dealership (and warranty service) is a 2 1/2 hour drive away. I
am also seeing more Nissan trucks than I used to see with the nearest
Nissan dealer being 80 miles away. These are people who use their
trucks as trucks and regularly use 4WD to get to their favorite
hunting, fishing or camping spot or just to see the backcountry. I
asked a real truck owner why he recently bought a Toyota Tundra and he
told me that he had driven two Toyota cars to 200,000 miles without any
problems and with nothing more than regular maintenance while his last
Ford truck needed an engine at 95,000 miles and the interior and body
started to deteriorate at 65,000 miles. I am currently thinking about
buying a full-sized truck that I will equip with a pop-up camper and
will use to tow the Jeep on the six hour trip to Moab. I have never
owned a Toyota or Nissan or any other Japanese vehicle, but I will
certainly consider them as I shop around. Currently we own a 1997
Buick bought used, a 1998 Volvo bought used and a 1998 TJ bought new.
None have been trouble free but none have needed major repairs (engine,
transmission, air conditioning) either. Overall, I think the Buick has
been the best of the lot. Just my thoughts and observations.
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> Real Truck Owners wouldn't be caught dead in a Japanese pick up truck. I
> suspect the Japanese trucks will sell OK in California, in the cities, but
> out in the country where trucks are trucks and men are men, the domestics
> will rein supreme for a long time to come.
>
>
>
>
> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:feske.130612$AE6.77261@tornado.texas.rr.com.. .
> > Very interesting show on Discovery Times channel last night. Detailed how
> > Japanese auto makers are really going hard after full size pick up truck
> > market. Nissan Titan is making big inroads and so is Honda. Japanese had
> > hard time understanding that Americans just don't like little trucks as
> much
> > as we like big trucks. Looks like they finally "got it" and now Detroit is
> > feeling the pain. PU Truck are some of the most profitable vehicles made
> by
> > Detroit.
> >
> > My own observation: When it comes to innovation the USA has everyone beat.
> > When it comes to refinement that's where we get caught and sometimes
> > surpassed by Japan and Europe to a lesser extent.
> >
> > We can make a Ford Mustang, A Jeep, Dodge Caravan, or a full size PU
> truck
> > but then we seem to get complacent and stop the developing and refinement.
> > That's where the Japanese really get going and make up ground.
> >
> > Ford & Gm bonds at junk status, not good. Auto industry is so resistant to
> > change and so slow to react to market forces. UAW not helping the issue
> > either.
> >
> > Interesting show if you get a chance to see it. Car designers are very
> > different people. Very artsy. They need engineers to keep them in reality
> :)
> >
> >