Scotty

"SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes:

> Hey guys,
>
> Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they polarized?
>
> I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg pole on
> the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
>
> sb

The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually isn't
an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up the
other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact armatures
and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because you say
you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with polarity.

Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the voltage and
current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are usually
stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much voltage
to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power source can
supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding
current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated for at
least 12-16 volts.

As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating or
they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load doesn't draw
more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw exceeds
the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them, start a
fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature
low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed
accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature.

Scotty
'99 TJ 4.0L
'99 XJ 4.0L
'03 BMW Z4

*** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply ***

Scotty

SB,

If there are 2 coils, these may be latching relays. Latching relays lock in the
"ON" position when one coil (the "SET" coil) is energized. The voltage needed
to set it can then be removed and the relay will stay "ON" until the other coil
is energized (the "RESET" coil). If so, then polarity might be an issue. Maybe,
maybe not.

The "n/o" and "n/c" markings mean "normally open" and "normally closed." That
is, when the relay is in its de-energized state, the contacts marked "n/o" are
open, like a switch that's shut off. Vice-versa for the "n/c" contacts, which
are closed when the relay is de-energized. Of course, energizing the relay
reverses these states for each set of contacts.

HTH

Scotty
'99 TJ 4.0L
'99 XJ 4.0L
'03 BMW Z4

*** This reply requires 4 size "AA" batteries (not included) ***

"SB" chicbearsmook@hotmail.com writes:

> These are rated 40Amps. $3 per at Princess Auto...I finally found the one
> near me and had a chub the whole time I was there!! haha

> I realized the points won't matter....there ARE numbers on the contacts
> (5contacts...2-coils, 3-switch {n/o & n/c})....but these numbers don't lead
> you to think ones pos or neg!

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:408EF19B.DA439BAC@***.net...
> What size are you talking the small 20 amp ones, like for auxiliary
> lights? http://www.kchilites.com/instruction...layHarness.pdf You
> may have to use the plus size in order to see the numbers that both
> Bosch and Radio Shack use. The solenoid coil would be polarized, the the
> power running through the points wouldn't make a nickel's worth of
> difference.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> SB wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they
polarized?
> >
> > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg
pole on
> > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
> >
> > sb

Scotty

SB,

If there are 2 coils, these may be latching relays. Latching relays lock in the
"ON" position when one coil (the "SET" coil) is energized. The voltage needed
to set it can then be removed and the relay will stay "ON" until the other coil
is energized (the "RESET" coil). If so, then polarity might be an issue. Maybe,
maybe not.

The "n/o" and "n/c" markings mean "normally open" and "normally closed." That
is, when the relay is in its de-energized state, the contacts marked "n/o" are
open, like a switch that's shut off. Vice-versa for the "n/c" contacts, which
are closed when the relay is de-energized. Of course, energizing the relay
reverses these states for each set of contacts.

HTH

Scotty
'99 TJ 4.0L
'99 XJ 4.0L
'03 BMW Z4

*** This reply requires 4 size "AA" batteries (not included) ***

"SB" chicbearsmook@hotmail.com writes:

> These are rated 40Amps. $3 per at Princess Auto...I finally found the one
> near me and had a chub the whole time I was there!! haha

> I realized the points won't matter....there ARE numbers on the contacts
> (5contacts...2-coils, 3-switch {n/o & n/c})....but these numbers don't lead
> you to think ones pos or neg!

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:408EF19B.DA439BAC@***.net...
> What size are you talking the small 20 amp ones, like for auxiliary
> lights? http://www.kchilites.com/instruction...layHarness.pdf You
> may have to use the plus size in order to see the numbers that both
> Bosch and Radio Shack use. The solenoid coil would be polarized, the the
> power running through the points wouldn't make a nickel's worth of
> difference.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> SB wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they
polarized?
> >
> > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg
pole on
> > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
> >
> > sb

Scotty

SB,

If there are 2 coils, these may be latching relays. Latching relays lock in the
"ON" position when one coil (the "SET" coil) is energized. The voltage needed
to set it can then be removed and the relay will stay "ON" until the other coil
is energized (the "RESET" coil). If so, then polarity might be an issue. Maybe,
maybe not.

The "n/o" and "n/c" markings mean "normally open" and "normally closed." That
is, when the relay is in its de-energized state, the contacts marked "n/o" are
open, like a switch that's shut off. Vice-versa for the "n/c" contacts, which
are closed when the relay is de-energized. Of course, energizing the relay
reverses these states for each set of contacts.

HTH

Scotty
'99 TJ 4.0L
'99 XJ 4.0L
'03 BMW Z4

*** This reply requires 4 size "AA" batteries (not included) ***

"SB" chicbearsmook@hotmail.com writes:

> These are rated 40Amps. $3 per at Princess Auto...I finally found the one
> near me and had a chub the whole time I was there!! haha

> I realized the points won't matter....there ARE numbers on the contacts
> (5contacts...2-coils, 3-switch {n/o & n/c})....but these numbers don't lead
> you to think ones pos or neg!

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:408EF19B.DA439BAC@***.net...
> What size are you talking the small 20 amp ones, like for auxiliary
> lights? http://www.kchilites.com/instruction...layHarness.pdf You
> may have to use the plus size in order to see the numbers that both
> Bosch and Radio Shack use. The solenoid coil would be polarized, the the
> power running through the points wouldn't make a nickel's worth of
> difference.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> SB wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they
polarized?
> >
> > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg
pole on
> > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
> >
> > sb

Scotty

SB,

If there are 2 coils, these may be latching relays. Latching relays lock in the
"ON" position when one coil (the "SET" coil) is energized. The voltage needed
to set it can then be removed and the relay will stay "ON" until the other coil
is energized (the "RESET" coil). If so, then polarity might be an issue. Maybe,
maybe not.

The "n/o" and "n/c" markings mean "normally open" and "normally closed." That
is, when the relay is in its de-energized state, the contacts marked "n/o" are
open, like a switch that's shut off. Vice-versa for the "n/c" contacts, which
are closed when the relay is de-energized. Of course, energizing the relay
reverses these states for each set of contacts.

HTH

Scotty
'99 TJ 4.0L
'99 XJ 4.0L
'03 BMW Z4

*** This reply requires 4 size "AA" batteries (not included) ***

"SB" chicbearsmook@hotmail.com writes:

> These are rated 40Amps. $3 per at Princess Auto...I finally found the one
> near me and had a chub the whole time I was there!! haha

> I realized the points won't matter....there ARE numbers on the contacts
> (5contacts...2-coils, 3-switch {n/o & n/c})....but these numbers don't lead
> you to think ones pos or neg!

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:408EF19B.DA439BAC@***.net...
> What size are you talking the small 20 amp ones, like for auxiliary
> lights? http://www.kchilites.com/instruction...layHarness.pdf You
> may have to use the plus size in order to see the numbers that both
> Bosch and Radio Shack use. The solenoid coil would be polarized, the the
> power running through the points wouldn't make a nickel's worth of
> difference.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> SB wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they
polarized?
> >
> > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg
pole on
> > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
> >
> > sb

SB

Thanks Scotty/Bill....

I understand how a relay works....I'm an electronics tech and don't like to
'test' polarities if I can help it! :D

These aren't "cheap" relays relative to manufacturing (ok, it probably was a
philipian sweat-shop -- they do great work!) but were "cheap" in relation to
being surplus and were on sale!

I know they put on 'fold-back' (or feedback) diodes to help prevent the
coils from discharging back in to the line (ok, I said I'm an EL-tech and
now can't remember if it only applied to AC designs!).

I'm working off the flu and have been OD'ing on cold medicine. I'm useless
lol too much!

Anyhow, here's a link I found that has the perscribed numbering on the
bottom of the relay.
(look at 2nd image down)
http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/lights-1.htm
This tells me at least that there are certain pins used for defined
polarities....not that it isn't swappable....but....I dunno.

Where's my buckleys!



"Scotty" <gotcherpicher@aol.common> wrote in message
news:20040427202017.17108.00000441@mb-m13.aol.com...
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they
polarized?
> >
> > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg
pole on
> > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
> >
> > sb
>
> The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually
isn't
> an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up the
> other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact
armatures
> and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because you
say
> you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with
polarity.
>
> Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the
voltage and
> current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are
usually
> stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much
voltage
> to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power source
can
> supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding
> current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated for
at
> least 12-16 volts.
>
> As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating or
> they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load doesn't
draw
> more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw
exceeds
> the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them,
start a
> fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature
> low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed
> accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature.
>
> Scotty
> '99 TJ 4.0L
> '99 XJ 4.0L
> '03 BMW Z4
>
> *** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply ***
>
>
>
>
>
>

SB

Thanks Scotty/Bill....

I understand how a relay works....I'm an electronics tech and don't like to
'test' polarities if I can help it! :D

These aren't "cheap" relays relative to manufacturing (ok, it probably was a
philipian sweat-shop -- they do great work!) but were "cheap" in relation to
being surplus and were on sale!

I know they put on 'fold-back' (or feedback) diodes to help prevent the
coils from discharging back in to the line (ok, I said I'm an EL-tech and
now can't remember if it only applied to AC designs!).

I'm working off the flu and have been OD'ing on cold medicine. I'm useless
lol too much!

Anyhow, here's a link I found that has the perscribed numbering on the
bottom of the relay.
(look at 2nd image down)
http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/lights-1.htm
This tells me at least that there are certain pins used for defined
polarities....not that it isn't swappable....but....I dunno.

Where's my buckleys!



"Scotty" <gotcherpicher@aol.common> wrote in message
news:20040427202017.17108.00000441@mb-m13.aol.com...
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they
polarized?
> >
> > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg
pole on
> > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
> >
> > sb
>
> The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually
isn't
> an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up the
> other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact
armatures
> and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because you
say
> you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with
polarity.
>
> Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the
voltage and
> current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are
usually
> stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much
voltage
> to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power source
can
> supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding
> current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated for
at
> least 12-16 volts.
>
> As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating or
> they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load doesn't
draw
> more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw
exceeds
> the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them,
start a
> fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature
> low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed
> accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature.
>
> Scotty
> '99 TJ 4.0L
> '99 XJ 4.0L
> '03 BMW Z4
>
> *** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply ***
>
>
>
>
>
>

SB

Thanks Scotty/Bill....

I understand how a relay works....I'm an electronics tech and don't like to
'test' polarities if I can help it! :D

These aren't "cheap" relays relative to manufacturing (ok, it probably was a
philipian sweat-shop -- they do great work!) but were "cheap" in relation to
being surplus and were on sale!

I know they put on 'fold-back' (or feedback) diodes to help prevent the
coils from discharging back in to the line (ok, I said I'm an EL-tech and
now can't remember if it only applied to AC designs!).

I'm working off the flu and have been OD'ing on cold medicine. I'm useless
lol too much!

Anyhow, here's a link I found that has the perscribed numbering on the
bottom of the relay.
(look at 2nd image down)
http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/lights-1.htm
This tells me at least that there are certain pins used for defined
polarities....not that it isn't swappable....but....I dunno.

Where's my buckleys!



"Scotty" <gotcherpicher@aol.common> wrote in message
news:20040427202017.17108.00000441@mb-m13.aol.com...
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they
polarized?
> >
> > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg
pole on
> > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
> >
> > sb
>
> The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually
isn't
> an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up the
> other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact
armatures
> and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because you
say
> you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with
polarity.
>
> Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the
voltage and
> current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are
usually
> stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much
voltage
> to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power source
can
> supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding
> current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated for
at
> least 12-16 volts.
>
> As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating or
> they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load doesn't
draw
> more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw
exceeds
> the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them,
start a
> fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature
> low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed
> accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature.
>
> Scotty
> '99 TJ 4.0L
> '99 XJ 4.0L
> '03 BMW Z4
>
> *** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply ***
>
>
>
>
>
>

SB

Thanks Scotty/Bill....

I understand how a relay works....I'm an electronics tech and don't like to
'test' polarities if I can help it! :D

These aren't "cheap" relays relative to manufacturing (ok, it probably was a
philipian sweat-shop -- they do great work!) but were "cheap" in relation to
being surplus and were on sale!

I know they put on 'fold-back' (or feedback) diodes to help prevent the
coils from discharging back in to the line (ok, I said I'm an EL-tech and
now can't remember if it only applied to AC designs!).

I'm working off the flu and have been OD'ing on cold medicine. I'm useless
lol too much!

Anyhow, here's a link I found that has the perscribed numbering on the
bottom of the relay.
(look at 2nd image down)
http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/lights-1.htm
This tells me at least that there are certain pins used for defined
polarities....not that it isn't swappable....but....I dunno.

Where's my buckleys!



"Scotty" <gotcherpicher@aol.common> wrote in message
news:20040427202017.17108.00000441@mb-m13.aol.com...
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they
polarized?
> >
> > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg
pole on
> > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
> >
> > sb
>
> The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually
isn't
> an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up the
> other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact
armatures
> and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because you
say
> you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with
polarity.
>
> Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the
voltage and
> current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are
usually
> stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much
voltage
> to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power source
can
> supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding
> current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated for
at
> least 12-16 volts.
>
> As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating or
> they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load doesn't
draw
> more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw
exceeds
> the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them,
start a
> fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature
> low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed
> accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature.
>
> Scotty
> '99 TJ 4.0L
> '99 XJ 4.0L
> '03 BMW Z4
>
> *** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply ***
>
>
>
>
>
>

SB

I'm such a doped up spaz!! lol
I just read the link I put in there and it don't make a difference which
gets what....

I swear guys...I haven't been eating paint chips!!


"SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cCDjc.301907$2oI1.75276@twister01.bloor.is.ne t.cable.rogers.com...
> Thanks Scotty/Bill....
>
> I understand how a relay works....I'm an electronics tech and don't like
to
> 'test' polarities if I can help it! :D
>
> These aren't "cheap" relays relative to manufacturing (ok, it probably was
a
> philipian sweat-shop -- they do great work!) but were "cheap" in relation
to
> being surplus and were on sale!
>
> I know they put on 'fold-back' (or feedback) diodes to help prevent the
> coils from discharging back in to the line (ok, I said I'm an EL-tech and
> now can't remember if it only applied to AC designs!).
>
> I'm working off the flu and have been OD'ing on cold medicine. I'm
useless
> lol too much!
>
> Anyhow, here's a link I found that has the perscribed numbering on the
> bottom of the relay.
> (look at 2nd image down)
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/lights-1.htm
> This tells me at least that there are certain pins used for defined
> polarities....not that it isn't swappable....but....I dunno.
>
> Where's my buckleys!
>
>
>
> "Scotty" <gotcherpicher@aol.common> wrote in message
> news:20040427202017.17108.00000441@mb-m13.aol.com...
> > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> writes:
> >
> > > Hey guys,
> > >
> > > Having a brain issue. Are automotive relays bipolar? or are they
> polarized?
> > >
> > > I picked up some cheap relays and there's no indication of a pos/neg
> pole on
> > > the coil....I'm guessing it don't make a difference!
> > >
> > > sb
> >
> > The DC polarity of conventional electromechanical relay windings usually
> isn't
> > an issue; if they won't work one way, switch the wires to hook 'em up
the
> > other. There are very sensitive relays that have magnetized cotact
> armatures
> > and thus the polarity of the winding current is important. But because
you
> say
> > you got these relays "cheap," I doubt that you'll have trouble with
> polarity.
> >
> > Rather than winding polarity, what's important about relays are the
> voltage and
> > current ratings of both the winding and the contacts. These ratings are
> usually
> > stamped or embossed on the base. Be sure that you don't apply too much
> voltage
> > to the winding or you'll burn it out, and make sure that your power
source
> can
> > supply enough current for it to operate. With a car battery, the winding
> > current draw won't be an issue as long as the winding voltage is rated
for
> at
> > least 12-16 volts.
> >
> > As far as the contacts are concerned, don't exceed their voltage rating
or
> > they'll arc. And (probably most important) make sure that the load
doesn't
> draw
> > more current than the contacts can handle. If your load current draw
> exceeds
> > the contact current capacity, you'll weld the contacts shut, melt them,
> start a
> > fire, or all of the above. Automotive applications are by nature
> > low-voltage/high-current devices, so automotive relays are designed
> > accordingly; really fat, beefy contacts with a short-throw armature.
> >
> > Scotty
> > '99 TJ 4.0L
> > '99 XJ 4.0L
> > '03 BMW Z4
> >
> > *** No animals were harmed during the production of this reply ***
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>