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Re: Which coolant?
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/government/84/8431gov1.html
http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/...77&wit_id=4463 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ billy ray wrote: > > Almost all coolants except the Sierra type stuff uses Ethylene Glycol as > their base, the difference is in the anti-corrosive ingredients added to the > clear glycols. Sierra uses propylene glycol as the base and refuses to list > the corrosion inhibitors used. DC forbids propylene glycol coolants for > other reasons including reduced heat transfer capacity, less freeze > protection, less corrosion protection, and you cannot use standard coolant > protection measuring equipment. > > According to the 'Mobile Air Conditioning Society' magazine November 2004 > issue all Prestone products use O.A.T. Organic Acid Technology inhibitors. > > DexCool uses OAT inhibitors in their Ethylene Glycol coolants > > According to the '02 FSM OAT containing coolants are verboten by DC, > therefore DexCool is forbidden and as all Prestones are DexCool then all > Prestones are not acceptable. > > Peak makes many different brands of coolant, many are listed by Peak on > their company website as using OAT inhibitors but being appropriate for DC > vehicles. Most of the others do not list the inhibitor technology used but > they too are claimed to be acceptable. > > In my way of thinking if they lie to you about half of their products they > are probably lying to you about all of them. > > As far as I know the only brand of coolant that still uses the old 'American > Green' spec is Valvoline's Zerex Original Green Antifreeze/Coolant in the > white jug. > http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=8 > > Please be aware that just because a coolant may happen to be green in color > does not mean it meets the 'American Green' specs. In my youth American > Green spec coolant was available in green, yellow, and blue. It may have > been available in other colors but I lived in a small town and we had > limited choices. > > The new spec coolant is G-05 (Glysantin) which is a Ethylene Glycol based > coolant using H.O.A.T. Hybrid Organic Acid Technology inhibitors. As far as > I know the only supplier of G-05 spec coolant to the aftermarket is > Valvoline in their Zerex G-05® Antifreeze/ Coolant in the gold jug. > http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=10 > > DC advises that any vehicle that came with green coolant may continue to use > it although they recommend upgrading to the new G-05 spec as the corrosion > inhibitor capability is superior. > > You should always use Distilled water to make your 50/50 mix as the minerals > in tap water promote corrosion. > > FWIW: > OAT and HOAT coolants are chemically incompatible, if you top off G-05 with > Prestone Universal you will end up with an engine, radiator, heater core and > expansion tank full of brownish red slime. > > Zerex G-05 is a very pale yellow, this is the color used by Ford. DC dyes > their G-05 orange. These coolants are identical except for the color and > are interchangeable. DC orange G-05 is not to be confused with GM-Texaco's > DexCool orange or Prestone's yellow which is DexCool confused with Zerex and > Ford yellow G-05. > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2118433873 > > Prestone and Peak varieties and pix of the damage they cause: > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2102424208 > > Valvoline's Zerex G-05 coolant is available at PepBoys and NAPA. |
Re: Which coolant?
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/government/84/8431gov1.html
http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/...77&wit_id=4463 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ billy ray wrote: > > Almost all coolants except the Sierra type stuff uses Ethylene Glycol as > their base, the difference is in the anti-corrosive ingredients added to the > clear glycols. Sierra uses propylene glycol as the base and refuses to list > the corrosion inhibitors used. DC forbids propylene glycol coolants for > other reasons including reduced heat transfer capacity, less freeze > protection, less corrosion protection, and you cannot use standard coolant > protection measuring equipment. > > According to the 'Mobile Air Conditioning Society' magazine November 2004 > issue all Prestone products use O.A.T. Organic Acid Technology inhibitors. > > DexCool uses OAT inhibitors in their Ethylene Glycol coolants > > According to the '02 FSM OAT containing coolants are verboten by DC, > therefore DexCool is forbidden and as all Prestones are DexCool then all > Prestones are not acceptable. > > Peak makes many different brands of coolant, many are listed by Peak on > their company website as using OAT inhibitors but being appropriate for DC > vehicles. Most of the others do not list the inhibitor technology used but > they too are claimed to be acceptable. > > In my way of thinking if they lie to you about half of their products they > are probably lying to you about all of them. > > As far as I know the only brand of coolant that still uses the old 'American > Green' spec is Valvoline's Zerex Original Green Antifreeze/Coolant in the > white jug. > http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=8 > > Please be aware that just because a coolant may happen to be green in color > does not mean it meets the 'American Green' specs. In my youth American > Green spec coolant was available in green, yellow, and blue. It may have > been available in other colors but I lived in a small town and we had > limited choices. > > The new spec coolant is G-05 (Glysantin) which is a Ethylene Glycol based > coolant using H.O.A.T. Hybrid Organic Acid Technology inhibitors. As far as > I know the only supplier of G-05 spec coolant to the aftermarket is > Valvoline in their Zerex G-05® Antifreeze/ Coolant in the gold jug. > http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=10 > > DC advises that any vehicle that came with green coolant may continue to use > it although they recommend upgrading to the new G-05 spec as the corrosion > inhibitor capability is superior. > > You should always use Distilled water to make your 50/50 mix as the minerals > in tap water promote corrosion. > > FWIW: > OAT and HOAT coolants are chemically incompatible, if you top off G-05 with > Prestone Universal you will end up with an engine, radiator, heater core and > expansion tank full of brownish red slime. > > Zerex G-05 is a very pale yellow, this is the color used by Ford. DC dyes > their G-05 orange. These coolants are identical except for the color and > are interchangeable. DC orange G-05 is not to be confused with GM-Texaco's > DexCool orange or Prestone's yellow which is DexCool confused with Zerex and > Ford yellow G-05. > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2118433873 > > Prestone and Peak varieties and pix of the damage they cause: > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2102424208 > > Valvoline's Zerex G-05 coolant is available at PepBoys and NAPA. |
Re: Which coolant?
AFAIK, Peak still makes an American Green, but you won't find it at
Walmart, KMart, or even Autozone. The discount stores seem to carry only the Universal stuff these days. I have seen it at a Murray's Autoparts near here as well as at a Citgo station and possibly a local NAPA. In article <45284737$0$19620$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, trypticon@sympatico.obvious.ca says... > I'm looking to do a little cooling system maintanence on my '93 Grand > Cherokee (and '93 Voyager for that matter) before winter hits. The van is > well overdue and the Jeep is relatively new to me. I went looking for good > ol green coolant but all I could find was some no-name brand, everything > else was yellow or orange "long life" compatable-with-everything coolant. > Now I intend to drain, fill with water (and cleaner), run for a bit, drain > again, and fill with coolant mix. I doubt I'll get 100% of it out so I'm > hesitant to swap over to one of these alternatives. Is it worth it hunting > down the ol' green stuff or should I pick a new colour? Or just use the > cheapie "autopro" green stuff? > > > > |
Re: Which coolant?
AFAIK, Peak still makes an American Green, but you won't find it at
Walmart, KMart, or even Autozone. The discount stores seem to carry only the Universal stuff these days. I have seen it at a Murray's Autoparts near here as well as at a Citgo station and possibly a local NAPA. In article <45284737$0$19620$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, trypticon@sympatico.obvious.ca says... > I'm looking to do a little cooling system maintanence on my '93 Grand > Cherokee (and '93 Voyager for that matter) before winter hits. The van is > well overdue and the Jeep is relatively new to me. I went looking for good > ol green coolant but all I could find was some no-name brand, everything > else was yellow or orange "long life" compatable-with-everything coolant. > Now I intend to drain, fill with water (and cleaner), run for a bit, drain > again, and fill with coolant mix. I doubt I'll get 100% of it out so I'm > hesitant to swap over to one of these alternatives. Is it worth it hunting > down the ol' green stuff or should I pick a new colour? Or just use the > cheapie "autopro" green stuff? > > > > |
Re: Which coolant?
AFAIK, Peak still makes an American Green, but you won't find it at
Walmart, KMart, or even Autozone. The discount stores seem to carry only the Universal stuff these days. I have seen it at a Murray's Autoparts near here as well as at a Citgo station and possibly a local NAPA. In article <45284737$0$19620$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, trypticon@sympatico.obvious.ca says... > I'm looking to do a little cooling system maintanence on my '93 Grand > Cherokee (and '93 Voyager for that matter) before winter hits. The van is > well overdue and the Jeep is relatively new to me. I went looking for good > ol green coolant but all I could find was some no-name brand, everything > else was yellow or orange "long life" compatable-with-everything coolant. > Now I intend to drain, fill with water (and cleaner), run for a bit, drain > again, and fill with coolant mix. I doubt I'll get 100% of it out so I'm > hesitant to swap over to one of these alternatives. Is it worth it hunting > down the ol' green stuff or should I pick a new colour? Or just use the > cheapie "autopro" green stuff? > > > > |
Re: Which coolant?
If this newer and "safer for the environment" coolant is that
destructive to the cooling system components.............have there been many complaints and lawsuits? If so any positive results for the owners of the vehicles? FYI (and maybe urban legend) The VWs/Audis either call for G11 (blue color) or G12 (red closer to pinkish color) which in the USA is blended by Valvoline. Valvoline claims that no "over the counter" easy to obtain coolant has the same blend as G11 or G12 and it is almost a "secret blend". I am told that if G12 gets mixed with any other coolant it will probably turn into sludge and other coolants will damage aluminum components. I have not seen this yet...........thank goodness. Now Pensotin makes a universal G12 that can supposedly be added to any other coolant with no ill effects. I have seen G11 coolant mixed by owners but have not really seen any ill effects yet (See NOTE below). But either there is only a small amount added or there is a leak that lets all coolant out anyway. I have also heard that using the right coolant will allow components to live longer without leaks. I DON'T MIX G12, if it calls for G12 that is what it gets!!! G11 seems to play with others OK and does not seem to be as proprietary as G12. NOTE: Now I do remember a couple of radiators (G11) that I changed that had their radiator fan sensors that were badly corroded, or eaten up, on the inside along with the threads in the radiators that were also corroded. I am not sure what caused this problem though since these vehicles were over 10 years old with probably no coolant flushes during this period. Now I did not mention oil which does not play well with any coolant! lol later, dave AKA vwdoc1 |
Re: Which coolant?
If this newer and "safer for the environment" coolant is that
destructive to the cooling system components.............have there been many complaints and lawsuits? If so any positive results for the owners of the vehicles? FYI (and maybe urban legend) The VWs/Audis either call for G11 (blue color) or G12 (red closer to pinkish color) which in the USA is blended by Valvoline. Valvoline claims that no "over the counter" easy to obtain coolant has the same blend as G11 or G12 and it is almost a "secret blend". I am told that if G12 gets mixed with any other coolant it will probably turn into sludge and other coolants will damage aluminum components. I have not seen this yet...........thank goodness. Now Pensotin makes a universal G12 that can supposedly be added to any other coolant with no ill effects. I have seen G11 coolant mixed by owners but have not really seen any ill effects yet (See NOTE below). But either there is only a small amount added or there is a leak that lets all coolant out anyway. I have also heard that using the right coolant will allow components to live longer without leaks. I DON'T MIX G12, if it calls for G12 that is what it gets!!! G11 seems to play with others OK and does not seem to be as proprietary as G12. NOTE: Now I do remember a couple of radiators (G11) that I changed that had their radiator fan sensors that were badly corroded, or eaten up, on the inside along with the threads in the radiators that were also corroded. I am not sure what caused this problem though since these vehicles were over 10 years old with probably no coolant flushes during this period. Now I did not mention oil which does not play well with any coolant! lol later, dave AKA vwdoc1 |
Re: Which coolant?
If this newer and "safer for the environment" coolant is that
destructive to the cooling system components.............have there been many complaints and lawsuits? If so any positive results for the owners of the vehicles? FYI (and maybe urban legend) The VWs/Audis either call for G11 (blue color) or G12 (red closer to pinkish color) which in the USA is blended by Valvoline. Valvoline claims that no "over the counter" easy to obtain coolant has the same blend as G11 or G12 and it is almost a "secret blend". I am told that if G12 gets mixed with any other coolant it will probably turn into sludge and other coolants will damage aluminum components. I have not seen this yet...........thank goodness. Now Pensotin makes a universal G12 that can supposedly be added to any other coolant with no ill effects. I have seen G11 coolant mixed by owners but have not really seen any ill effects yet (See NOTE below). But either there is only a small amount added or there is a leak that lets all coolant out anyway. I have also heard that using the right coolant will allow components to live longer without leaks. I DON'T MIX G12, if it calls for G12 that is what it gets!!! G11 seems to play with others OK and does not seem to be as proprietary as G12. NOTE: Now I do remember a couple of radiators (G11) that I changed that had their radiator fan sensors that were badly corroded, or eaten up, on the inside along with the threads in the radiators that were also corroded. I am not sure what caused this problem though since these vehicles were over 10 years old with probably no coolant flushes during this period. Now I did not mention oil which does not play well with any coolant! lol later, dave AKA vwdoc1 |
Re: Which coolant?
I can't help you with the proper coolant type, but you should be aware
that the system will hold likely 40% of it's volume inside the heater core and engine block. This means you will 'already' have a 40% water mix in there when you start filling it with 'pure' antifreeze. I always find out what the capacity is from the owners manual and add half that in pure antifreeze if I want a 50/50 mix. I then top it up with water. I actually have had 50/50 freeze up here in Ontario Canada so I prefer 60/40. Canadian Tire still sells 'green' antifreeze but be careful what you buy. They now sell it premixed which is 'only' good for topping up, not filling after a flush. And they charge more for the distilled water in the premix, then pure antifreeze! Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) SBlackfoot wrote: > > I'm looking to do a little cooling system maintanence on my '93 Grand > Cherokee (and '93 Voyager for that matter) before winter hits. The van is > well overdue and the Jeep is relatively new to me. I went looking for good > ol green coolant but all I could find was some no-name brand, everything > else was yellow or orange "long life" compatable-with-everything coolant. > Now I intend to drain, fill with water (and cleaner), run for a bit, drain > again, and fill with coolant mix. I doubt I'll get 100% of it out so I'm > hesitant to swap over to one of these alternatives. Is it worth it hunting > down the ol' green stuff or should I pick a new colour? Or just use the > cheapie "autopro" green stuff? > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: Which coolant?
I can't help you with the proper coolant type, but you should be aware
that the system will hold likely 40% of it's volume inside the heater core and engine block. This means you will 'already' have a 40% water mix in there when you start filling it with 'pure' antifreeze. I always find out what the capacity is from the owners manual and add half that in pure antifreeze if I want a 50/50 mix. I then top it up with water. I actually have had 50/50 freeze up here in Ontario Canada so I prefer 60/40. Canadian Tire still sells 'green' antifreeze but be careful what you buy. They now sell it premixed which is 'only' good for topping up, not filling after a flush. And they charge more for the distilled water in the premix, then pure antifreeze! Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) SBlackfoot wrote: > > I'm looking to do a little cooling system maintanence on my '93 Grand > Cherokee (and '93 Voyager for that matter) before winter hits. The van is > well overdue and the Jeep is relatively new to me. I went looking for good > ol green coolant but all I could find was some no-name brand, everything > else was yellow or orange "long life" compatable-with-everything coolant. > Now I intend to drain, fill with water (and cleaner), run for a bit, drain > again, and fill with coolant mix. I doubt I'll get 100% of it out so I'm > hesitant to swap over to one of these alternatives. Is it worth it hunting > down the ol' green stuff or should I pick a new colour? Or just use the > cheapie "autopro" green stuff? > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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