Zenteren

Before two days I installed ARB front locker in my Suzuki. This thing is the
best I ever saw. I can drive normally and when terrain gots worst I hit the
dash button and my vehicle becomes a traction king. I don't regret for money
I payed for it. You better save some money and buy really good locker.


"James Morrow" <tahoejeebs@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c7c3e39b.0402182200.6205788a@posting.google.c om...
> ok first off i have an 88 jeep cherokee pioneer 4x4 with the
> command-trac transfer case, dana 30 front, dana 35 rear. i read stuff
> about how you shouldn't use lockers in the front diff unless you have
> manual locking hubs. they say that this is bc when disengaged it
> bypasses the diff acting like an open diff. now i'm no expert, but
> from what i understand, when the command-trac transfer case is in 2wd,
> the front driveshaft doesn't spin, so it send no power to the front
> axle. furthermore, i understand that when the command-trac transfer
> case is in 2wd, the passenger side axleshaft is not connected to the
> diff (only the drivers side is connected to the diff). so basically,
> if only the drivers side wheel is connected to the front diff, and the
> wheel is only moving from forward motion (not being driven), why the
> hell couldn't i run a spool up front if i want to? am i wrong here?
> the reason i ask is bc i am looking into lockers and limited slips. i
> don't want to fork out the money for selectable lockers, yet i hear
> really bad things about automatic lockers causing lots of problems. if
> i could get away with running a spool up front i will. i mean, if i am
> right, and the spool would only really engage when i put it in 4wd,
> then what would be wrong in doing so? i would just have to be pretty
> careful about where i use my 4wd at correct?
>
> if anyone has any experience with lockers and limited slips in a dana
> 30 froont and dana 35 rear i would love any input. just understand, i
> don't wanna spend the money for selectable lockers. i know they are
> great and perfect for everything but they are too expensive for me! i
> have been seriously considering limited slip front and rear (i hear
> good stuff about auburns LS), or LS up front and automatic locker in
> the rear (lockright maybe?) the vehicle is my daily driver, so i want
> driveability to be affected as little as possible. i hear automatic
> lockers make tons of noise from locking and unlocking, but since the
> rear has so much less differential action than the front of the
> vehicle, would an automatic locker be bad in the rear? i don't want it
> to be noisy (between the rumbling of my engine, the roar of my mud
> tires, and my stereo system i can't handle anymore!), and i don't want
> it to put alot of stress on my drivetrain.
>
> i know some of u jeep gurus out there can answer my questions! i very
> well may be wrong about running a spool up front but i have done alot
> of research and this is just what i've gotten out of it. if i am
> right, technically i could run any kind of diff i want up front right?
> i know the rear is a different story. if i can get away with running a
> spool up front, i mind even splurge on a selectable locker for the
> rear with the money i save. thanks in advance yall!
>
> james morrow

Zenteren

Before two days I installed ARB front locker in my Suzuki. This thing is the
best I ever saw. I can drive normally and when terrain gots worst I hit the
dash button and my vehicle becomes a traction king. I don't regret for money
I payed for it. You better save some money and buy really good locker.


"James Morrow" <tahoejeebs@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c7c3e39b.0402182200.6205788a@posting.google.c om...
> ok first off i have an 88 jeep cherokee pioneer 4x4 with the
> command-trac transfer case, dana 30 front, dana 35 rear. i read stuff
> about how you shouldn't use lockers in the front diff unless you have
> manual locking hubs. they say that this is bc when disengaged it
> bypasses the diff acting like an open diff. now i'm no expert, but
> from what i understand, when the command-trac transfer case is in 2wd,
> the front driveshaft doesn't spin, so it send no power to the front
> axle. furthermore, i understand that when the command-trac transfer
> case is in 2wd, the passenger side axleshaft is not connected to the
> diff (only the drivers side is connected to the diff). so basically,
> if only the drivers side wheel is connected to the front diff, and the
> wheel is only moving from forward motion (not being driven), why the
> hell couldn't i run a spool up front if i want to? am i wrong here?
> the reason i ask is bc i am looking into lockers and limited slips. i
> don't want to fork out the money for selectable lockers, yet i hear
> really bad things about automatic lockers causing lots of problems. if
> i could get away with running a spool up front i will. i mean, if i am
> right, and the spool would only really engage when i put it in 4wd,
> then what would be wrong in doing so? i would just have to be pretty
> careful about where i use my 4wd at correct?
>
> if anyone has any experience with lockers and limited slips in a dana
> 30 froont and dana 35 rear i would love any input. just understand, i
> don't wanna spend the money for selectable lockers. i know they are
> great and perfect for everything but they are too expensive for me! i
> have been seriously considering limited slip front and rear (i hear
> good stuff about auburns LS), or LS up front and automatic locker in
> the rear (lockright maybe?) the vehicle is my daily driver, so i want
> driveability to be affected as little as possible. i hear automatic
> lockers make tons of noise from locking and unlocking, but since the
> rear has so much less differential action than the front of the
> vehicle, would an automatic locker be bad in the rear? i don't want it
> to be noisy (between the rumbling of my engine, the roar of my mud
> tires, and my stereo system i can't handle anymore!), and i don't want
> it to put alot of stress on my drivetrain.
>
> i know some of u jeep gurus out there can answer my questions! i very
> well may be wrong about running a spool up front but i have done alot
> of research and this is just what i've gotten out of it. if i am
> right, technically i could run any kind of diff i want up front right?
> i know the rear is a different story. if i can get away with running a
> spool up front, i mind even splurge on a selectable locker for the
> rear with the money i save. thanks in advance yall!
>
> james morrow

Zenteren

Before two days I installed ARB front locker in my Suzuki. This thing is the
best I ever saw. I can drive normally and when terrain gots worst I hit the
dash button and my vehicle becomes a traction king. I don't regret for money
I payed for it. You better save some money and buy really good locker.


"James Morrow" <tahoejeebs@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c7c3e39b.0402182200.6205788a@posting.google.c om...
> ok first off i have an 88 jeep cherokee pioneer 4x4 with the
> command-trac transfer case, dana 30 front, dana 35 rear. i read stuff
> about how you shouldn't use lockers in the front diff unless you have
> manual locking hubs. they say that this is bc when disengaged it
> bypasses the diff acting like an open diff. now i'm no expert, but
> from what i understand, when the command-trac transfer case is in 2wd,
> the front driveshaft doesn't spin, so it send no power to the front
> axle. furthermore, i understand that when the command-trac transfer
> case is in 2wd, the passenger side axleshaft is not connected to the
> diff (only the drivers side is connected to the diff). so basically,
> if only the drivers side wheel is connected to the front diff, and the
> wheel is only moving from forward motion (not being driven), why the
> hell couldn't i run a spool up front if i want to? am i wrong here?
> the reason i ask is bc i am looking into lockers and limited slips. i
> don't want to fork out the money for selectable lockers, yet i hear
> really bad things about automatic lockers causing lots of problems. if
> i could get away with running a spool up front i will. i mean, if i am
> right, and the spool would only really engage when i put it in 4wd,
> then what would be wrong in doing so? i would just have to be pretty
> careful about where i use my 4wd at correct?
>
> if anyone has any experience with lockers and limited slips in a dana
> 30 froont and dana 35 rear i would love any input. just understand, i
> don't wanna spend the money for selectable lockers. i know they are
> great and perfect for everything but they are too expensive for me! i
> have been seriously considering limited slip front and rear (i hear
> good stuff about auburns LS), or LS up front and automatic locker in
> the rear (lockright maybe?) the vehicle is my daily driver, so i want
> driveability to be affected as little as possible. i hear automatic
> lockers make tons of noise from locking and unlocking, but since the
> rear has so much less differential action than the front of the
> vehicle, would an automatic locker be bad in the rear? i don't want it
> to be noisy (between the rumbling of my engine, the roar of my mud
> tires, and my stereo system i can't handle anymore!), and i don't want
> it to put alot of stress on my drivetrain.
>
> i know some of u jeep gurus out there can answer my questions! i very
> well may be wrong about running a spool up front but i have done alot
> of research and this is just what i've gotten out of it. if i am
> right, technically i could run any kind of diff i want up front right?
> i know the rear is a different story. if i can get away with running a
> spool up front, i mind even splurge on a selectable locker for the
> rear with the money i save. thanks in advance yall!
>
> james morrow

Tookie

A locker in the front will probably not even be noticed, until you go
offroad and use 4WD - You don't want a spool, you won't be able to
turn with it. If you put a locker in the front (I've got Lockrights
front and back) be sure the driveshaft is straight and U-Joints in
good shape, cause it will spin and you WILL feel any vibration.
A locker in the rear is good, it just takes some getting used to.
With an Automatic, it's probably not bad. On mine, it jerks me around
a little when I shift. You will hear it disengage in parking lots and
sharp turns, but it's silent on the road. Also, the Lockrights give
you at least twice as much play (slack) as you had before.
Finally, if you live in an area where the roads ice up, a locker can
be a handful to drive, rear will want to swap with the front a lot.
But offroad, they are unbeatable.
(Except, when you do stick it, now its REALLY stuck!! LOL)

Good Luck
Tookie
Tookie - Denham Springs, LA
88YJ,"Money Hungry"
4" lift, 33" TSLs, Lock-Rights
PosiLock, 4.10s

Tookie

A locker in the front will probably not even be noticed, until you go
offroad and use 4WD - You don't want a spool, you won't be able to
turn with it. If you put a locker in the front (I've got Lockrights
front and back) be sure the driveshaft is straight and U-Joints in
good shape, cause it will spin and you WILL feel any vibration.
A locker in the rear is good, it just takes some getting used to.
With an Automatic, it's probably not bad. On mine, it jerks me around
a little when I shift. You will hear it disengage in parking lots and
sharp turns, but it's silent on the road. Also, the Lockrights give
you at least twice as much play (slack) as you had before.
Finally, if you live in an area where the roads ice up, a locker can
be a handful to drive, rear will want to swap with the front a lot.
But offroad, they are unbeatable.
(Except, when you do stick it, now its REALLY stuck!! LOL)

Good Luck
Tookie
Tookie - Denham Springs, LA
88YJ,"Money Hungry"
4" lift, 33" TSLs, Lock-Rights
PosiLock, 4.10s

Tookie

A locker in the front will probably not even be noticed, until you go
offroad and use 4WD - You don't want a spool, you won't be able to
turn with it. If you put a locker in the front (I've got Lockrights
front and back) be sure the driveshaft is straight and U-Joints in
good shape, cause it will spin and you WILL feel any vibration.
A locker in the rear is good, it just takes some getting used to.
With an Automatic, it's probably not bad. On mine, it jerks me around
a little when I shift. You will hear it disengage in parking lots and
sharp turns, but it's silent on the road. Also, the Lockrights give
you at least twice as much play (slack) as you had before.
Finally, if you live in an area where the roads ice up, a locker can
be a handful to drive, rear will want to swap with the front a lot.
But offroad, they are unbeatable.
(Except, when you do stick it, now its REALLY stuck!! LOL)

Good Luck
Tookie
Tookie - Denham Springs, LA
88YJ,"Money Hungry"
4" lift, 33" TSLs, Lock-Rights
PosiLock, 4.10s

Drink

Bill's right about the Dana 35 being pretty weak compared to many other
differentials. Take a look at his website and you'll see so many examples
of breakage you'd think that he enjoys cataloging it. If you can, you
should consider getting a beefier differential before investing a lot of
money into an inferior part. But, that's another story. You're asking
about lockers, limited slip and spools.
I'd say that running a "spool" is out of the question. For me, a spool's
no good for anything but driving in a straight line since both tires will
ALWAYS turn at the same speed, i.e. one tire will spin or the other will
"bark" any time you turn. That equals absolutely unacceptable stress for a
daily driver. They're used in applications where the driver intends to spin
the tires; not a daily driver or even a normal off-roader in my opinion.
So, you're down to lockers and limited slips.
My preference is to start with a traction device in the rear first. Your
rear wheels are what you're using most of the time anyway. If you need more
traction, you can lock in the front and you'll have power to one of the
front wheels at that point. You just have to choose between locker (maximum
mechanical traction but clicks on sharp turns in the parking lot) or a
limited slip (no clicking but the power distribution between left & right
isn't as good because of the Limited Slip). I've heard it said that 2WD
with a locker in the rear is equally if not more effective than 4WD with
open differentials. I won't venture an opinion on that one, but, I know
that traction devices have fantastic benefits on the 4WD and even better if
they're in back and front.
I might recommend a limited slip up front. I say this because your front
end's often weaker than the rear because of typically lighter axles and
U-joints. A locker's fine. I'm just throwing out the idea that a limited
slip might grip great and still give enough to keep from sharply loading up
the front end (left versus right axle) with excessive stress. It's just a t
hought, though, since if you have enough traction to build that much stress,
you probably don't need 4WD unless you're rock crawling. Being in the
Florida panhandle, I humbly admit that my idea of rock crawling is creeping
over a curb:). But, a mechanical locker might be the ticket for that
scenario. You'll just have to decide like the rest of us and justify it to
yourself. I don't know you but you're probably much more understanding than
I am. Haha!
Let's recap thus far. 1) Decide whether you'll swap your rear end first.
Then, 2) consider traction device in the rear. Then, 3) consider traction
device in the front.
Tookie and Bill have made some great observations for you and your
particular setup/requirement will dictate where you're going and the best
way to get there. By the way, if you have an automatic transmission, it'll
probably help deal with the added rear end play you'll experience from
traction devices. I'd really listen to some of the other guys' preferences
on the NG since it's based on first hand experience. IMHO, I think they're
an awesome resource to draw from since we've got some of the most
experienced, knowledgeable off-roaders in the country here.
Hope this helps you on your path to muddy, dusty, trail-broke nirvana:)
--
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Drink

Bill's right about the Dana 35 being pretty weak compared to many other
differentials. Take a look at his website and you'll see so many examples
of breakage you'd think that he enjoys cataloging it. If you can, you
should consider getting a beefier differential before investing a lot of
money into an inferior part. But, that's another story. You're asking
about lockers, limited slip and spools.
I'd say that running a "spool" is out of the question. For me, a spool's
no good for anything but driving in a straight line since both tires will
ALWAYS turn at the same speed, i.e. one tire will spin or the other will
"bark" any time you turn. That equals absolutely unacceptable stress for a
daily driver. They're used in applications where the driver intends to spin
the tires; not a daily driver or even a normal off-roader in my opinion.
So, you're down to lockers and limited slips.
My preference is to start with a traction device in the rear first. Your
rear wheels are what you're using most of the time anyway. If you need more
traction, you can lock in the front and you'll have power to one of the
front wheels at that point. You just have to choose between locker (maximum
mechanical traction but clicks on sharp turns in the parking lot) or a
limited slip (no clicking but the power distribution between left & right
isn't as good because of the Limited Slip). I've heard it said that 2WD
with a locker in the rear is equally if not more effective than 4WD with
open differentials. I won't venture an opinion on that one, but, I know
that traction devices have fantastic benefits on the 4WD and even better if
they're in back and front.
I might recommend a limited slip up front. I say this because your front
end's often weaker than the rear because of typically lighter axles and
U-joints. A locker's fine. I'm just throwing out the idea that a limited
slip might grip great and still give enough to keep from sharply loading up
the front end (left versus right axle) with excessive stress. It's just a t
hought, though, since if you have enough traction to build that much stress,
you probably don't need 4WD unless you're rock crawling. Being in the
Florida panhandle, I humbly admit that my idea of rock crawling is creeping
over a curb:). But, a mechanical locker might be the ticket for that
scenario. You'll just have to decide like the rest of us and justify it to
yourself. I don't know you but you're probably much more understanding than
I am. Haha!
Let's recap thus far. 1) Decide whether you'll swap your rear end first.
Then, 2) consider traction device in the rear. Then, 3) consider traction
device in the front.
Tookie and Bill have made some great observations for you and your
particular setup/requirement will dictate where you're going and the best
way to get there. By the way, if you have an automatic transmission, it'll
probably help deal with the added rear end play you'll experience from
traction devices. I'd really listen to some of the other guys' preferences
on the NG since it's based on first hand experience. IMHO, I think they're
an awesome resource to draw from since we've got some of the most
experienced, knowledgeable off-roaders in the country here.
Hope this helps you on your path to muddy, dusty, trail-broke nirvana:)
--
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Drink

Bill's right about the Dana 35 being pretty weak compared to many other
differentials. Take a look at his website and you'll see so many examples
of breakage you'd think that he enjoys cataloging it. If you can, you
should consider getting a beefier differential before investing a lot of
money into an inferior part. But, that's another story. You're asking
about lockers, limited slip and spools.
I'd say that running a "spool" is out of the question. For me, a spool's
no good for anything but driving in a straight line since both tires will
ALWAYS turn at the same speed, i.e. one tire will spin or the other will
"bark" any time you turn. That equals absolutely unacceptable stress for a
daily driver. They're used in applications where the driver intends to spin
the tires; not a daily driver or even a normal off-roader in my opinion.
So, you're down to lockers and limited slips.
My preference is to start with a traction device in the rear first. Your
rear wheels are what you're using most of the time anyway. If you need more
traction, you can lock in the front and you'll have power to one of the
front wheels at that point. You just have to choose between locker (maximum
mechanical traction but clicks on sharp turns in the parking lot) or a
limited slip (no clicking but the power distribution between left & right
isn't as good because of the Limited Slip). I've heard it said that 2WD
with a locker in the rear is equally if not more effective than 4WD with
open differentials. I won't venture an opinion on that one, but, I know
that traction devices have fantastic benefits on the 4WD and even better if
they're in back and front.
I might recommend a limited slip up front. I say this because your front
end's often weaker than the rear because of typically lighter axles and
U-joints. A locker's fine. I'm just throwing out the idea that a limited
slip might grip great and still give enough to keep from sharply loading up
the front end (left versus right axle) with excessive stress. It's just a t
hought, though, since if you have enough traction to build that much stress,
you probably don't need 4WD unless you're rock crawling. Being in the
Florida panhandle, I humbly admit that my idea of rock crawling is creeping
over a curb:). But, a mechanical locker might be the ticket for that
scenario. You'll just have to decide like the rest of us and justify it to
yourself. I don't know you but you're probably much more understanding than
I am. Haha!
Let's recap thus far. 1) Decide whether you'll swap your rear end first.
Then, 2) consider traction device in the rear. Then, 3) consider traction
device in the front.
Tookie and Bill have made some great observations for you and your
particular setup/requirement will dictate where you're going and the best
way to get there. By the way, if you have an automatic transmission, it'll
probably help deal with the added rear end play you'll experience from
traction devices. I'd really listen to some of the other guys' preferences
on the NG since it's based on first hand experience. IMHO, I think they're
an awesome resource to draw from since we've got some of the most
experienced, knowledgeable off-roaders in the country here.
Hope this helps you on your path to muddy, dusty, trail-broke nirvana:)
--
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

think4yourself

Hi James,

I would kind of disagree with what is being said. As long as you have
manual hubs there is no reason not to spool the frontend. When you
unlock your hub, you disengage the wheel fron the front driveshaft;
in essence you are now a standard 2wd vehicle with freespinning front
wheels. This means that in turns you will experience no wheel "skip"
because your wheels are not physically attached to the spooled drive
shafts. However, if your hubs are locked (or if your autohubs engage)
then you have problems. A spooled diff acts like a single driveshaft
running from wheel to wheel. If your hubs are engaged, regardless of
if you are in 4wd, the two front wheels are now locked together and
will NOT turn at different speeds which is required for turns on
pavement. Remember, puting the vehicle in 4wd is sending power to
the diff and the hubs decide if the power reaches the wheel.

My final vote is IF you have manual hubs and IF you don't leave them
engaged for nomal driving (some people do) there should be no reason
not to spool the front end. I plan on doing this to my rig (spooled
front and Detroit Locker on the rear).

-Mike