Clutch Woes
09-24-2003, 05:20 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Clutch Woes
Background:
87YJ/4.2L/5 speed Peuko trans.
Recently I had a squeak coming from under the dash when I depressed the
clutch and it eventually got louder then went away. At this point my
clutch began acting up at stoplights or anytime I held the clutch pedal
in for any amount of time. It would not be totally disengaged and I
found myself crawling up on the guy in front when my pedal was to the floor.
I tried bleeding the clutch system and it got better, but not for long.
Eventually I couldn't drive it because I was not able to get it in and
out of gear. I assumed the master cylinder was gone (where the noise
started) so I order up a new one ($102.99) and replaced it. I bled the
system and it immediately repeated the trait of not fully disengaging
and eventually getting worse.
Since I was busy with moving and the Jeep is mainly one of my
recreational vehicles I didn't have much time to deal with it.
During my move I figured I had about 120 miles of all highway
to move the Jeep to the new house and to my new barn to get it fixed
again. 20 miles in the clutch got so bad I effectively had no clutch at
a toll booth. I tried bleeding it right there and I kept getting air no
matter how many times I released the bleeder and my wife pumped like
crazy in between.
We went through 12 oz of new fluid with no added resistance to the pedal
and I gave up. I put it in first and started it and drove the last 100
miles of highway with no clutch till I reached my exit 5 miles from home
and stopped on the highway and called AAA. ( Saved me $3 per mile x 95
miles and keep it on a highway and they come faster ;-)
So I assume my client is now gone and I order up one of those from the
dealer as well as a whole new clutch line for good measure.
I dropped the tranny and replaced it this past weekend and now it's
all back together and I'm trying to bleed the whole new clutch system.
My Dilemma:
I've passed a total of 24oz of new fluid through the bleeding process
and I'm still getting air on every cycle.
The pedal is still as limp as ever and I'm wondering how much fluid is
this going to take? I tested the new master cylinder before buying the
client by plugging the outlet and finding a rockhard, unmoveable clutch
pedal. So I figure it's pumping fluid and of course, had no where to
pump it.
I'm leaking zero fluid which was the case before this all started.
I expected some large amount of air when the client pops it's
restraining straps the first time out and I heard it pop on first
depression.
This is not a huge system? What can be wrong. Any ideas? suggestions?
Thanks!
Perry
87YJ
PS. remove the nospam from my email to direct reply. I have to stop
these viruses coming in at a rate of 120 a day!
87YJ/4.2L/5 speed Peuko trans.
Recently I had a squeak coming from under the dash when I depressed the
clutch and it eventually got louder then went away. At this point my
clutch began acting up at stoplights or anytime I held the clutch pedal
in for any amount of time. It would not be totally disengaged and I
found myself crawling up on the guy in front when my pedal was to the floor.
I tried bleeding the clutch system and it got better, but not for long.
Eventually I couldn't drive it because I was not able to get it in and
out of gear. I assumed the master cylinder was gone (where the noise
started) so I order up a new one ($102.99) and replaced it. I bled the
system and it immediately repeated the trait of not fully disengaging
and eventually getting worse.
Since I was busy with moving and the Jeep is mainly one of my
recreational vehicles I didn't have much time to deal with it.
During my move I figured I had about 120 miles of all highway
to move the Jeep to the new house and to my new barn to get it fixed
again. 20 miles in the clutch got so bad I effectively had no clutch at
a toll booth. I tried bleeding it right there and I kept getting air no
matter how many times I released the bleeder and my wife pumped like
crazy in between.
We went through 12 oz of new fluid with no added resistance to the pedal
and I gave up. I put it in first and started it and drove the last 100
miles of highway with no clutch till I reached my exit 5 miles from home
and stopped on the highway and called AAA. ( Saved me $3 per mile x 95
miles and keep it on a highway and they come faster ;-)
So I assume my client is now gone and I order up one of those from the
dealer as well as a whole new clutch line for good measure.
I dropped the tranny and replaced it this past weekend and now it's
all back together and I'm trying to bleed the whole new clutch system.
My Dilemma:
I've passed a total of 24oz of new fluid through the bleeding process
and I'm still getting air on every cycle.
The pedal is still as limp as ever and I'm wondering how much fluid is
this going to take? I tested the new master cylinder before buying the
client by plugging the outlet and finding a rockhard, unmoveable clutch
pedal. So I figure it's pumping fluid and of course, had no where to
pump it.
I'm leaking zero fluid which was the case before this all started.
I expected some large amount of air when the client pops it's
restraining straps the first time out and I heard it pop on first
depression.
This is not a huge system? What can be wrong. Any ideas? suggestions?
Thanks!
Perry
87YJ
PS. remove the nospam from my email to direct reply. I have to stop
these viruses coming in at a rate of 120 a day!
09-24-2003, 07:19 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Clutch Woes
Jeff,
I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
no air.
Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
line and are pushed into the reservoir.
I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
Thanks for your help!
Perry
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> You replaced a worn out clutch master cylinder with a broken clutch master
> cylinder. And, maybe you failed to bench bleed the new one.
>
>
>
I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
no air.
Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
line and are pushed into the reservoir.
I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
Thanks for your help!
Perry
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> You replaced a worn out clutch master cylinder with a broken clutch master
> cylinder. And, maybe you failed to bench bleed the new one.
>
>
>
09-24-2003, 07:19 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Clutch Woes
Jeff,
I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
no air.
Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
line and are pushed into the reservoir.
I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
Thanks for your help!
Perry
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> You replaced a worn out clutch master cylinder with a broken clutch master
> cylinder. And, maybe you failed to bench bleed the new one.
>
>
>
I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
no air.
Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
line and are pushed into the reservoir.
I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
Thanks for your help!
Perry
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> You replaced a worn out clutch master cylinder with a broken clutch master
> cylinder. And, maybe you failed to bench bleed the new one.
>
>
>
09-24-2003, 09:47 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Clutch Woes
Perry,
I posted you in the other NG. This sounds like a bad MC to me, like someone
forgot to install a seal or put one on backwards. Bleeding this system
should be fairly easy, I did one for a friend a while ago from below with a
hand vacuum pump and it works like a charm. I'd try one more vacuum bleed or
even try a pressure bleeded if you can get one. (Motive Products makes one
that might work for you.)
"Perry Gagnon" <perry@nospam.perryshome.com> wrote in message
news:3F72267C.60303@nospam.perryshome.com...
> Jeff,
>
> I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
> new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
> the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
> I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
> reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
> cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
> was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
> no air.
> Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
> maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
> more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
> line and are pushed into the reservoir.
> I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
> Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > You replaced a worn out clutch master cylinder with a broken clutch
master
> > cylinder. And, maybe you failed to bench bleed the new one.
> >
> >
> >
>
I posted you in the other NG. This sounds like a bad MC to me, like someone
forgot to install a seal or put one on backwards. Bleeding this system
should be fairly easy, I did one for a friend a while ago from below with a
hand vacuum pump and it works like a charm. I'd try one more vacuum bleed or
even try a pressure bleeded if you can get one. (Motive Products makes one
that might work for you.)
"Perry Gagnon" <perry@nospam.perryshome.com> wrote in message
news:3F72267C.60303@nospam.perryshome.com...
> Jeff,
>
> I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
> new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
> the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
> I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
> reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
> cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
> was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
> no air.
> Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
> maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
> more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
> line and are pushed into the reservoir.
> I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
> Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > You replaced a worn out clutch master cylinder with a broken clutch
master
> > cylinder. And, maybe you failed to bench bleed the new one.
> >
> >
> >
>
09-24-2003, 09:47 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Clutch Woes
Perry,
I posted you in the other NG. This sounds like a bad MC to me, like someone
forgot to install a seal or put one on backwards. Bleeding this system
should be fairly easy, I did one for a friend a while ago from below with a
hand vacuum pump and it works like a charm. I'd try one more vacuum bleed or
even try a pressure bleeded if you can get one. (Motive Products makes one
that might work for you.)
"Perry Gagnon" <perry@nospam.perryshome.com> wrote in message
news:3F72267C.60303@nospam.perryshome.com...
> Jeff,
>
> I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
> new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
> the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
> I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
> reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
> cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
> was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
> no air.
> Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
> maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
> more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
> line and are pushed into the reservoir.
> I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
> Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > You replaced a worn out clutch master cylinder with a broken clutch
master
> > cylinder. And, maybe you failed to bench bleed the new one.
> >
> >
> >
>
I posted you in the other NG. This sounds like a bad MC to me, like someone
forgot to install a seal or put one on backwards. Bleeding this system
should be fairly easy, I did one for a friend a while ago from below with a
hand vacuum pump and it works like a charm. I'd try one more vacuum bleed or
even try a pressure bleeded if you can get one. (Motive Products makes one
that might work for you.)
"Perry Gagnon" <perry@nospam.perryshome.com> wrote in message
news:3F72267C.60303@nospam.perryshome.com...
> Jeff,
>
> I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
> new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
> the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
> I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
> reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
> cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
> was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
> no air.
> Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
> maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
> more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
> line and are pushed into the reservoir.
> I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
> Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > You replaced a worn out clutch master cylinder with a broken clutch
master
> > cylinder. And, maybe you failed to bench bleed the new one.
> >
> >
> >
>
09-25-2003, 02:11 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Clutch Woes
"Perry Gagnon" <perry@nospam.perryshome.com> wrote in message
news:3F72267C.60303@nospam.perryshome.com...
> Jeff,
>
> I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
> new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
> the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
I don't think you can do it that way. What you have to overcome is the fact
that air bubbles get inside the respective chambers, and the pedal does not
move far enought to force them out. When you work the piston while the MC is
on the bench, you can push it further than the pedal will move it, and this
will push the trapped air out.
> I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
> reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
> cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
> was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
> no air.
See above. I think you MUST bleed the air by pushing the piston its full
travel, and the pedal will not do this.
> Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
> maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
> more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
> line and are pushed into the reservoir.
> I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
> Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
>
I think you have a serious problem. Get a new MC, and bleed it on the bench
before you install it. In any case, if air is entering the system somewhere
after you get the bubbles to stop, you have a leak.
09-25-2003, 02:11 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Clutch Woes
"Perry Gagnon" <perry@nospam.perryshome.com> wrote in message
news:3F72267C.60303@nospam.perryshome.com...
> Jeff,
>
> I'm suspecting the new one is bad now. I did draw all the air out of the
> new clutch master cylinder with a hand vacuum pump till I had no air in
> the clear tube *Before* attaching the main line.
I don't think you can do it that way. What you have to overcome is the fact
that air bubbles get inside the respective chambers, and the pedal does not
move far enought to force them out. When you work the piston while the MC is
on the bench, you can push it further than the pedal will move it, and this
will push the trapped air out.
> I just tried hooking up to the outlet and cycling it back through the
> reservoir as I usually would do on a Brake MC. I figured the single
> cylinder clutch MC wouldn't need the closed loop of a bench bleed if I
> was was pulling enough fluid through it with the vacuum pump and getting
> no air.
See above. I think you MUST bleed the air by pushing the piston its full
travel, and the pedal will not do this.
> Anyway I moved it slowly in and out until there was no more air. It
> maintained no air until I then moved it quicker and I immediately got
> more air introduced. Move it faster and larger air bubbles enter the
> line and are pushed into the reservoir.
> I'm thinking I'm back to the parts department for another.
> Or perhaps I can press the clutch in very slowly from here on out! ;-)
>
I think you have a serious problem. Get a new MC, and bleed it on the bench
before you install it. In any case, if air is entering the system somewhere
after you get the bubbles to stop, you have a leak.
09-25-2003, 02:59 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Clutch Woes
Pumping doesn't get it for me either, because the master cylinder's
inner piston return spring isn't strong enough to return the piston cup
to the fill opening of it's reservoir, so I make a way to pressurize the
reservoir and also bleed at the master cylinder for that stupid design
flaw that has the line loop higher than the cylinder.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Perry Gagnon wrote:
>
> Background:
> 87YJ/4.2L/5 speed Peuko trans.
> Recently I had a squeak coming from under the dash when I depressed the
> clutch and it eventually got louder then went away. At this point my
> clutch began acting up at stoplights or anytime I held the clutch pedal
> in for any amount of time. It would not be totally disengaged and I
> found myself crawling up on the guy in front when my pedal was to the floor.
>
> I tried bleeding the clutch system and it got better, but not for long.
> Eventually I couldn't drive it because I was not able to get it in and
> out of gear. I assumed the master cylinder was gone (where the noise
> started) so I order up a new one ($102.99) and replaced it. I bled the
> system and it immediately repeated the trait of not fully disengaging
> and eventually getting worse.
> Since I was busy with moving and the Jeep is mainly one of my
> recreational vehicles I didn't have much time to deal with it.
> During my move I figured I had about 120 miles of all highway
> to move the Jeep to the new house and to my new barn to get it fixed
> again. 20 miles in the clutch got so bad I effectively had no clutch at
> a toll booth. I tried bleeding it right there and I kept getting air no
> matter how many times I released the bleeder and my wife pumped like
> crazy in between.
>
> We went through 12 oz of new fluid with no added resistance to the pedal
> and I gave up. I put it in first and started it and drove the last 100
> miles of highway with no clutch till I reached my exit 5 miles from home
> and stopped on the highway and called AAA. ( Saved me $3 per mile x 95
> miles and keep it on a highway and they come faster ;-)
>
> So I assume my client is now gone and I order up one of those from the
> dealer as well as a whole new clutch line for good measure.
>
> I dropped the tranny and replaced it this past weekend and now it's
> all back together and I'm trying to bleed the whole new clutch system.
>
> My Dilemma:
>
> I've passed a total of 24oz of new fluid through the bleeding process
> and I'm still getting air on every cycle.
> The pedal is still as limp as ever and I'm wondering how much fluid is
> this going to take? I tested the new master cylinder before buying the
> client by plugging the outlet and finding a rockhard, unmoveable clutch
> pedal. So I figure it's pumping fluid and of course, had no where to
> pump it.
>
> I'm leaking zero fluid which was the case before this all started.
> I expected some large amount of air when the client pops it's
> restraining straps the first time out and I heard it pop on first
> depression.
> This is not a huge system? What can be wrong. Any ideas? suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Perry
>
> 87YJ
>
> PS. remove the nospam from my email to direct reply. I have to stop
> these viruses coming in at a rate of 120 a day!
inner piston return spring isn't strong enough to return the piston cup
to the fill opening of it's reservoir, so I make a way to pressurize the
reservoir and also bleed at the master cylinder for that stupid design
flaw that has the line loop higher than the cylinder.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Perry Gagnon wrote:
>
> Background:
> 87YJ/4.2L/5 speed Peuko trans.
> Recently I had a squeak coming from under the dash when I depressed the
> clutch and it eventually got louder then went away. At this point my
> clutch began acting up at stoplights or anytime I held the clutch pedal
> in for any amount of time. It would not be totally disengaged and I
> found myself crawling up on the guy in front when my pedal was to the floor.
>
> I tried bleeding the clutch system and it got better, but not for long.
> Eventually I couldn't drive it because I was not able to get it in and
> out of gear. I assumed the master cylinder was gone (where the noise
> started) so I order up a new one ($102.99) and replaced it. I bled the
> system and it immediately repeated the trait of not fully disengaging
> and eventually getting worse.
> Since I was busy with moving and the Jeep is mainly one of my
> recreational vehicles I didn't have much time to deal with it.
> During my move I figured I had about 120 miles of all highway
> to move the Jeep to the new house and to my new barn to get it fixed
> again. 20 miles in the clutch got so bad I effectively had no clutch at
> a toll booth. I tried bleeding it right there and I kept getting air no
> matter how many times I released the bleeder and my wife pumped like
> crazy in between.
>
> We went through 12 oz of new fluid with no added resistance to the pedal
> and I gave up. I put it in first and started it and drove the last 100
> miles of highway with no clutch till I reached my exit 5 miles from home
> and stopped on the highway and called AAA. ( Saved me $3 per mile x 95
> miles and keep it on a highway and they come faster ;-)
>
> So I assume my client is now gone and I order up one of those from the
> dealer as well as a whole new clutch line for good measure.
>
> I dropped the tranny and replaced it this past weekend and now it's
> all back together and I'm trying to bleed the whole new clutch system.
>
> My Dilemma:
>
> I've passed a total of 24oz of new fluid through the bleeding process
> and I'm still getting air on every cycle.
> The pedal is still as limp as ever and I'm wondering how much fluid is
> this going to take? I tested the new master cylinder before buying the
> client by plugging the outlet and finding a rockhard, unmoveable clutch
> pedal. So I figure it's pumping fluid and of course, had no where to
> pump it.
>
> I'm leaking zero fluid which was the case before this all started.
> I expected some large amount of air when the client pops it's
> restraining straps the first time out and I heard it pop on first
> depression.
> This is not a huge system? What can be wrong. Any ideas? suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Perry
>
> 87YJ
>
> PS. remove the nospam from my email to direct reply. I have to stop
> these viruses coming in at a rate of 120 a day!