Will Honea

Every time I have clutch system apart (external slave), I simply bleed
before I attach the slave to the bell housing. Get a helper - it's
quicker. Crawl under and compress the slave by hand. Have the helper
fill the reservoir, then release the slave push rod SLOWLY as the helper
keeps the reservoir full. That will just about fill the slave, but it will
have an air pocket, so point the actuator rod down and have the helper
holler when the bubbles stop OR the level in the reservoir drops all the
way down. DO NOT ADD FLUID AT THIS TIME - you are about to push it all
back up again any way. Push the rod all the way into the slave - SLOWLY.
You probably will get at least some fluid back up to the reservoir - if
not, have the helper add fluid and keep it full release the slave rod -
slowly. Repeat until the reservoir is full with no bubbling when the
slave is full compressed. Release the slave all they way out, make sure
that there is some fluid in the bottom of the reservoir at all times -
not full, but enough to cover the bottom.

Crawl out and sit in the driver's seat. Have the helper fill the
reservoir. SLOWLY press the clutch all the way down. Hold it for a few
seconds and SLOWLY release it once or twice. Wait for any bubbles to stop,
then press the clutch and release it quickly a few times. Top off and go.

The older external slaves had a bleed valve that made the process a bit
simpler, but the new ones (aftermarket) come with the bleed port plugged
and no threads for a valve so this is the only way to get a good initial
bleed.

The clutch system is not under any pressure when not depressed, so any air
will eventually work its' way out from here.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:20:28 -0800, L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III wrote:

> The XJ and YJ clutch master cylinders I've replaced, have always had a
> the hydraulic line looped and attached to the firewall above the cylinder
> level from the factory that will hold air if allowed to stay at that level
> during bleeding. Detach and push it down level with the fitting you'll be
> bleeding.
> God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> <wbowlin@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1173050625.977351.94260@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com
>>
>> I don't follow on how to bleed from the master cylinder or how to go
>> about pushing down the loop. Care to expand on those suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
>
>



--
Will Honea <whonea@yahoo.com>

Will Honea

Every time I have clutch system apart (external slave), I simply bleed
before I attach the slave to the bell housing. Get a helper - it's
quicker. Crawl under and compress the slave by hand. Have the helper
fill the reservoir, then release the slave push rod SLOWLY as the helper
keeps the reservoir full. That will just about fill the slave, but it will
have an air pocket, so point the actuator rod down and have the helper
holler when the bubbles stop OR the level in the reservoir drops all the
way down. DO NOT ADD FLUID AT THIS TIME - you are about to push it all
back up again any way. Push the rod all the way into the slave - SLOWLY.
You probably will get at least some fluid back up to the reservoir - if
not, have the helper add fluid and keep it full release the slave rod -
slowly. Repeat until the reservoir is full with no bubbling when the
slave is full compressed. Release the slave all they way out, make sure
that there is some fluid in the bottom of the reservoir at all times -
not full, but enough to cover the bottom.

Crawl out and sit in the driver's seat. Have the helper fill the
reservoir. SLOWLY press the clutch all the way down. Hold it for a few
seconds and SLOWLY release it once or twice. Wait for any bubbles to stop,
then press the clutch and release it quickly a few times. Top off and go.

The older external slaves had a bleed valve that made the process a bit
simpler, but the new ones (aftermarket) come with the bleed port plugged
and no threads for a valve so this is the only way to get a good initial
bleed.

The clutch system is not under any pressure when not depressed, so any air
will eventually work its' way out from here.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:20:28 -0800, L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III wrote:

> The XJ and YJ clutch master cylinders I've replaced, have always had a
> the hydraulic line looped and attached to the firewall above the cylinder
> level from the factory that will hold air if allowed to stay at that level
> during bleeding. Detach and push it down level with the fitting you'll be
> bleeding.
> God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> <wbowlin@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1173050625.977351.94260@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com
>>
>> I don't follow on how to bleed from the master cylinder or how to go
>> about pushing down the loop. Care to expand on those suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
>
>



--
Will Honea <whonea@yahoo.com>

Will Honea

Every time I have clutch system apart (external slave), I simply bleed
before I attach the slave to the bell housing. Get a helper - it's
quicker. Crawl under and compress the slave by hand. Have the helper
fill the reservoir, then release the slave push rod SLOWLY as the helper
keeps the reservoir full. That will just about fill the slave, but it will
have an air pocket, so point the actuator rod down and have the helper
holler when the bubbles stop OR the level in the reservoir drops all the
way down. DO NOT ADD FLUID AT THIS TIME - you are about to push it all
back up again any way. Push the rod all the way into the slave - SLOWLY.
You probably will get at least some fluid back up to the reservoir - if
not, have the helper add fluid and keep it full release the slave rod -
slowly. Repeat until the reservoir is full with no bubbling when the
slave is full compressed. Release the slave all they way out, make sure
that there is some fluid in the bottom of the reservoir at all times -
not full, but enough to cover the bottom.

Crawl out and sit in the driver's seat. Have the helper fill the
reservoir. SLOWLY press the clutch all the way down. Hold it for a few
seconds and SLOWLY release it once or twice. Wait for any bubbles to stop,
then press the clutch and release it quickly a few times. Top off and go.

The older external slaves had a bleed valve that made the process a bit
simpler, but the new ones (aftermarket) come with the bleed port plugged
and no threads for a valve so this is the only way to get a good initial
bleed.

The clutch system is not under any pressure when not depressed, so any air
will eventually work its' way out from here.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:20:28 -0800, L.W. \(Bill\) ------ III wrote:

> The XJ and YJ clutch master cylinders I've replaced, have always had a
> the hydraulic line looped and attached to the firewall above the cylinder
> level from the factory that will hold air if allowed to stay at that level
> during bleeding. Detach and push it down level with the fitting you'll be
> bleeding.
> God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> <wbowlin@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1173050625.977351.94260@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com
>>
>> I don't follow on how to bleed from the master cylinder or how to go
>> about pushing down the loop. Care to expand on those suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
>
>



--
Will Honea <whonea@yahoo.com>

Will Honea

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:52:27 -0800, wbowlin wrote:

> On Feb 27, 12:44 am, Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> From the details you give, I have to ask: did you flush the whole system?
>> Reason I ask is that I had a used slave/master set when I swapped out the
>> internal slave and the master finally gave up a couple of years later. I
>> installed a new master, let it bleed itself ( the external slave will do a
>> pretty good job of self bleed in half an hour or so since there is no
>> residual pressure like a brake system has). Six months later, I sometimes
>> had a good clutch, sometimes could get it to work by pumping like mad, and
>> a couple of times came home shifting w/o a clutch. When I pulled the
>> master, it was full of black gunk that was messing up the rubber valve in
>> the end of the cylinder and not letting the master prime itself -
>> sometimes.
>>
>> One thing you never mentioned: do you have to add fluid every so often?
>> If so, you have a leak somewhere otherwise you have a poltergeist on your
>> case.
>>
>> --
>> Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com>
>
> I flushed the old fluid out of the line today, and while re-bleeding I
> noticed something peculiar. I would pump the pedal a few times, hold
> the pedal down, crack the bleeder valve, and let the fluid run out.
> However, while the fluid ran out it felt like air was rushing in.
> This would occur for a few seconds. I could hear (sounds like bubbles
> rushing up the line) and feel it in the clutch line. Small bubbles
> also formed in the master while doing this. Am I doing something
> wrong now or does this sound like a component failure?

This is a gravity system. You have to open the bleed port before the
pedal is all the way down and close it before the pedal reaches the
firewall. The line will drain by gravity if you leave it open with no
pressure. If it will fit, you can also use the old time method and attach
a line to the bleed port and run it into a jar of brake fluid. Fill the
hose with fluid, then the system will siphon brake fluid instead of air
when not under pressure.

--
Will Honea <whonea@yahoo.com>

Will Honea

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:52:27 -0800, wbowlin wrote:

> On Feb 27, 12:44 am, Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> From the details you give, I have to ask: did you flush the whole system?
>> Reason I ask is that I had a used slave/master set when I swapped out the
>> internal slave and the master finally gave up a couple of years later. I
>> installed a new master, let it bleed itself ( the external slave will do a
>> pretty good job of self bleed in half an hour or so since there is no
>> residual pressure like a brake system has). Six months later, I sometimes
>> had a good clutch, sometimes could get it to work by pumping like mad, and
>> a couple of times came home shifting w/o a clutch. When I pulled the
>> master, it was full of black gunk that was messing up the rubber valve in
>> the end of the cylinder and not letting the master prime itself -
>> sometimes.
>>
>> One thing you never mentioned: do you have to add fluid every so often?
>> If so, you have a leak somewhere otherwise you have a poltergeist on your
>> case.
>>
>> --
>> Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com>
>
> I flushed the old fluid out of the line today, and while re-bleeding I
> noticed something peculiar. I would pump the pedal a few times, hold
> the pedal down, crack the bleeder valve, and let the fluid run out.
> However, while the fluid ran out it felt like air was rushing in.
> This would occur for a few seconds. I could hear (sounds like bubbles
> rushing up the line) and feel it in the clutch line. Small bubbles
> also formed in the master while doing this. Am I doing something
> wrong now or does this sound like a component failure?

This is a gravity system. You have to open the bleed port before the
pedal is all the way down and close it before the pedal reaches the
firewall. The line will drain by gravity if you leave it open with no
pressure. If it will fit, you can also use the old time method and attach
a line to the bleed port and run it into a jar of brake fluid. Fill the
hose with fluid, then the system will siphon brake fluid instead of air
when not under pressure.

--
Will Honea <whonea@yahoo.com>

Will Honea

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:52:27 -0800, wbowlin wrote:

> On Feb 27, 12:44 am, Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> From the details you give, I have to ask: did you flush the whole system?
>> Reason I ask is that I had a used slave/master set when I swapped out the
>> internal slave and the master finally gave up a couple of years later. I
>> installed a new master, let it bleed itself ( the external slave will do a
>> pretty good job of self bleed in half an hour or so since there is no
>> residual pressure like a brake system has). Six months later, I sometimes
>> had a good clutch, sometimes could get it to work by pumping like mad, and
>> a couple of times came home shifting w/o a clutch. When I pulled the
>> master, it was full of black gunk that was messing up the rubber valve in
>> the end of the cylinder and not letting the master prime itself -
>> sometimes.
>>
>> One thing you never mentioned: do you have to add fluid every so often?
>> If so, you have a leak somewhere otherwise you have a poltergeist on your
>> case.
>>
>> --
>> Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com>
>
> I flushed the old fluid out of the line today, and while re-bleeding I
> noticed something peculiar. I would pump the pedal a few times, hold
> the pedal down, crack the bleeder valve, and let the fluid run out.
> However, while the fluid ran out it felt like air was rushing in.
> This would occur for a few seconds. I could hear (sounds like bubbles
> rushing up the line) and feel it in the clutch line. Small bubbles
> also formed in the master while doing this. Am I doing something
> wrong now or does this sound like a component failure?

This is a gravity system. You have to open the bleed port before the
pedal is all the way down and close it before the pedal reaches the
firewall. The line will drain by gravity if you leave it open with no
pressure. If it will fit, you can also use the old time method and attach
a line to the bleed port and run it into a jar of brake fluid. Fill the
hose with fluid, then the system will siphon brake fluid instead of air
when not under pressure.

--
Will Honea <whonea@yahoo.com>

Carl S

Sounds like you're bleeding wrong. Have someone pump the pedal, then have
them hold it down. Crack the bleeder and let it spray out. Close it before
the flow stops to prevent air from going back in. Try that a few times and
see if that helps.

Carl


<wbowlin@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1173052347.488235.67740@c51g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> On Feb 27, 12:44 am, Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> From the details you give, I have to ask: did you flush the whole system?
>> Reason I ask is that I had a used slave/master set when I swapped out the
>> internal slave and the master finally gave up a couple of years later. I
>> installed a new master, let it bleed itself ( the external slave will do
>> a
>> pretty good job of self bleed in half an hour or so since there is no
>> residual pressure like a brake system has). Six months later, I
>> sometimes
>> had a good clutch, sometimes could get it to work by pumping like mad,
>> and
>> a couple of times came home shifting w/o a clutch. When I pulled the
>> master, it was full of black gunk that was messing up the rubber valve in
>> the end of the cylinder and not letting the master prime itself -
>> sometimes.
>>
>> One thing you never mentioned: do you have to add fluid every so often?
>> If so, you have a leak somewhere otherwise you have a poltergeist on your
>> case.
>>
>> --
>> Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com>
>
> I flushed the old fluid out of the line today, and while re-bleeding I
> noticed something peculiar. I would pump the pedal a few times, hold
> the pedal down, crack the bleeder valve, and let the fluid run out.
> However, while the fluid ran out it felt like air was rushing in.
> This would occur for a few seconds. I could hear (sounds like bubbles
> rushing up the line) and feel it in the clutch line. Small bubbles
> also formed in the master while doing this. Am I doing something
> wrong now or does this sound like a component failure?
>
>

Carl S

Sounds like you're bleeding wrong. Have someone pump the pedal, then have
them hold it down. Crack the bleeder and let it spray out. Close it before
the flow stops to prevent air from going back in. Try that a few times and
see if that helps.

Carl


<wbowlin@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1173052347.488235.67740@c51g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> On Feb 27, 12:44 am, Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> From the details you give, I have to ask: did you flush the whole system?
>> Reason I ask is that I had a used slave/master set when I swapped out the
>> internal slave and the master finally gave up a couple of years later. I
>> installed a new master, let it bleed itself ( the external slave will do
>> a
>> pretty good job of self bleed in half an hour or so since there is no
>> residual pressure like a brake system has). Six months later, I
>> sometimes
>> had a good clutch, sometimes could get it to work by pumping like mad,
>> and
>> a couple of times came home shifting w/o a clutch. When I pulled the
>> master, it was full of black gunk that was messing up the rubber valve in
>> the end of the cylinder and not letting the master prime itself -
>> sometimes.
>>
>> One thing you never mentioned: do you have to add fluid every so often?
>> If so, you have a leak somewhere otherwise you have a poltergeist on your
>> case.
>>
>> --
>> Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com>
>
> I flushed the old fluid out of the line today, and while re-bleeding I
> noticed something peculiar. I would pump the pedal a few times, hold
> the pedal down, crack the bleeder valve, and let the fluid run out.
> However, while the fluid ran out it felt like air was rushing in.
> This would occur for a few seconds. I could hear (sounds like bubbles
> rushing up the line) and feel it in the clutch line. Small bubbles
> also formed in the master while doing this. Am I doing something
> wrong now or does this sound like a component failure?
>
>

Carl S

Sounds like you're bleeding wrong. Have someone pump the pedal, then have
them hold it down. Crack the bleeder and let it spray out. Close it before
the flow stops to prevent air from going back in. Try that a few times and
see if that helps.

Carl


<wbowlin@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1173052347.488235.67740@c51g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> On Feb 27, 12:44 am, Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> From the details you give, I have to ask: did you flush the whole system?
>> Reason I ask is that I had a used slave/master set when I swapped out the
>> internal slave and the master finally gave up a couple of years later. I
>> installed a new master, let it bleed itself ( the external slave will do
>> a
>> pretty good job of self bleed in half an hour or so since there is no
>> residual pressure like a brake system has). Six months later, I
>> sometimes
>> had a good clutch, sometimes could get it to work by pumping like mad,
>> and
>> a couple of times came home shifting w/o a clutch. When I pulled the
>> master, it was full of black gunk that was messing up the rubber valve in
>> the end of the cylinder and not letting the master prime itself -
>> sometimes.
>>
>> One thing you never mentioned: do you have to add fluid every so often?
>> If so, you have a leak somewhere otherwise you have a poltergeist on your
>> case.
>>
>> --
>> Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com>
>
> I flushed the old fluid out of the line today, and while re-bleeding I
> noticed something peculiar. I would pump the pedal a few times, hold
> the pedal down, crack the bleeder valve, and let the fluid run out.
> However, while the fluid ran out it felt like air was rushing in.
> This would occur for a few seconds. I could hear (sounds like bubbles
> rushing up the line) and feel it in the clutch line. Small bubbles
> also formed in the master while doing this. Am I doing something
> wrong now or does this sound like a component failure?
>
>

wbowlin@gmail.com

On Mar 8, 11:35 pm, "Carl S" <carlsai...@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds like you're bleeding wrong. Have someone pump the pedal, then have
> them hold it down. Crack the bleeder and let it spray out. Close it before
> the flow stops to prevent air from going back in. Try that a few times and
> see if that helps.
>
> Carl
>
> <wbow...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1173052347.488235.67740@c51g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
> > On Feb 27, 12:44 am, Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> From the details you give, I have to ask: did you flush the whole system?
> >> Reason I ask is that I had a used slave/master set when I swapped out the
> >> internal slave and the master finally gave up a couple of years later. I
> >> installed a new master, let it bleed itself ( the external slave will do
> >> a
> >> pretty good job of self bleed in half an hour or so since there is no
> >> residual pressure like a brake system has). Six months later, I
> >> sometimes
> >> had a good clutch, sometimes could get it to work by pumping like mad,
> >> and
> >> a couple of times came home shifting w/o a clutch. When I pulled the
> >> master, it was full of black gunk that was messing up the rubber valve in
> >> the end of the cylinder and not letting the master prime itself -
> >> sometimes.
>
> >> One thing you never mentioned: do you have to add fluid every so often?
> >> If so, you have a leak somewhere otherwise you have a poltergeist on your
> >> case.
>
> >> --
> >> Will Honea <who...@yahoo.com>
>
> > I flushed the old fluid out of the line today, and while re-bleeding I
> > noticed something peculiar. I would pump the pedal a few times, hold
> > the pedal down, crack the bleeder valve, and let the fluid run out.
> > However, while the fluid ran out it felt like air was rushing in.
> > This would occur for a few seconds. I could hear (sounds like bubbles
> > rushing up the line) and feel it in the clutch line. Small bubbles
> > also formed in the master while doing this. Am I doing something
> > wrong now or does this sound like a component failure?

What I ended up doing in the end (after trying everything I could
think of and that was suggested) was getting a speed bleeder and
combined that with the mityvac to suck air out of the bleeder port.
I cranked up the pressure to 15 psi, slightly opened the bleed port,
and slowly cycled the pedal with half strokes. The clutch is very
firm right now and staying that way. I believe it is bled well to
this point.

I just drove it around for half an hour and I only experienced a tough
shift one time. It was when I heard the rattling metal like sound
(see above post about that). As soon as it happened I pushed on the
pedal and it did not engage as early in the pedal stroke and the
tranny was stuck in gear. I let off the clutch, waited a couple of
seconds, and pressed the clutch again and it was firm again and it
shifted just fine. I think I am changing my mind on where the rattle
is. I believe it is where the clutch line and bleeder line exit the
bell housing. Its hard to stick your head by the pedals when you are
driving and the clutch wont release, but I tried and it sounds like it
is originating from that area. I tightened the hose down along the
firewall and of course it does not rattle nearly the same now. There
was a rubber grommet of some sort where the hoses exited the housing
when I tore it down, and that was the one part I was missing when I
put it back together. I forgot I was missing it during reassembly
because I was tackling getting the cross member bolted back up and
forgot to look for it when I was done. Do you think the lines
rattling there could be causing clutch issues, or something is going
wrong in the system and the line rattling is just an end result of
that? The clutch is very predictable, and will not release, when that
noise occurs but I don't know if not having the rubber piece in there
is a culprit. Ideas?

Also, I am a little worried about the tranny fluid I am using right
now. I am using Mobil 1 synthetic which I believe has additives in it
that are harmful to synchros, but the manual called for a GL5 based
fluid and that is one the part store had. I am thinking about
switching it out after doing seom reading, but I do not know what to
switch to. There are a variety of opinions out there. Any
suggestions on that?

Thanks guys for the help.

Will