Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

> Sure, forward any info you have from Novak. Since I am running exactly
> the same setup as you (AMC engine, T-150 bellhousing, T-18 trans, D300
> T-case), I would LOVE to know if there is an alignment problem.

Ok here's what I found out yesterday :

As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing :
1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5"

Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking
about a possible alternative.

They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP
and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551)
when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says
that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the
differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ
though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the
paperwork at home)


> For as few miles as I put on the Jeep, I might look at a softer metal
> bushing. The local machine shop may be able to cut one from
> "self-lubricating" brass/bronze/whatever.

Yeah mine doesn't get that many miles on it either.

> I'm hitting the trails down in French Lick with some Indiana FWDA guys
> this weekend. At least one of them has the AMC Engine /Ford T-18
> combo. I'll pick their brains and post what I learn.

Hey wait.. you're from IN ?? Cool I just moved here a year ago, don't
know about that many places to go (except for a 4wd park and a ditch or
2 here and there.)

thanks,

Ron



> Ryan
> ryansweany@earthlink.net
> (O|||||||O)
>
> Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvo84q$2dc$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>...
>
>>Hi Ryan,
>>
>>I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail
>>that is.
>>
>>According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it
>>is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the
>>engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that
>>bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150,
>>Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and
>>the skidplate was custom built)
>>
>>if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the
>> measurements of that bushing/bearing.
>>
>>One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url)
>>that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the
>>inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a
>>bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that
>>inputshaft.
>>
>>I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with
>>that T18 "thing".
>>
>>thanks,
>>
>>Ron
>>
>>
>>Ryan wrote:
>>
>>>Ron:
>>>
>>>It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a
>>>different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to
>>>downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a
>>>complete stop.
>>>
>>>Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A
>>>quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later.
>>>The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that
>>>is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may
>>>be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing.
>>>
>>>Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as
>>>well.
>>>
>>>Ryan
>>>
>>>Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>whoops I meant :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a T18 conversion the
>>>>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can
>>>>be used.
>>>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ron Croonenberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In a T18 conversion the bearing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used.
>>>>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.)

Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:50:15 UTC Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu>
wrote:

> As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing :
> 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5"
>
> Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking
> about a possible alternative.
>
> They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP
> and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551)
> when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says
> that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the
> differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ
> though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the
> paperwork at home)

When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local
Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they
had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and
depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something
like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep
dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took
it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and
honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk
hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked.
Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on
my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going.

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:50:15 UTC Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu>
wrote:

> As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing :
> 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5"
>
> Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking
> about a possible alternative.
>
> They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP
> and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551)
> when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says
> that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the
> differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ
> though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the
> paperwork at home)

When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local
Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they
had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and
depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something
like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep
dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took
it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and
honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk
hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked.
Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on
my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going.

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:50:15 UTC Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu>
wrote:

> As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing :
> 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5"
>
> Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking
> about a possible alternative.
>
> They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP
> and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551)
> when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says
> that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the
> differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ
> though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the
> paperwork at home)

When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local
Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they
had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and
depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something
like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep
dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took
it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and
honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk
hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked.
Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on
my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going.

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing)

Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the
input shaft of the tranny.
Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard
steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes
real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine
one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill
thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing

> When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local
> Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they
> had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and
> depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something
> like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep
> dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took
> it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and
> honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk
> hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked.
> Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on
> my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going.
>

Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing)

Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the
input shaft of the tranny.
Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard
steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes
real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine
one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill
thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing

> When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local
> Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they
> had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and
> depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something
> like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep
> dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took
> it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and
> honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk
> hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked.
> Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on
> my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going.
>

Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing)

Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the
input shaft of the tranny.
Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard
steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes
real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine
one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill
thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing

> When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local
> Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they
> had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and
> depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something
> like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep
> dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took
> it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and
> honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk
> hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked.
> Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on
> my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going.
>

Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

Hi Ron,
You may not be able to find a ball bearing type bushing. I wasn't
until these upholstered roller-skate invasion with their tiny engines
that used ball bearings instead of brass. And you can't be blaming the
poor clutch release on it anyway. That problem is in your pressure plate
or throw out bearing travel. If your six is an American engine for '79
and not the later f**ked up frog designed crank pilot hole, than you
shouldn't have to modify it like Will to fit your American Borg Warner
T-18 transmission. Here are three bearing/bushing manufacturers:
http://www.----------.com/I6pilotBearing.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Ron Croonenberg wrote:
>
> Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing)
>
> Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the
> input shaft of the tranny.
> Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard
> steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes
> real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine
> one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill
> thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing

Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

Hi Ron,
You may not be able to find a ball bearing type bushing. I wasn't
until these upholstered roller-skate invasion with their tiny engines
that used ball bearings instead of brass. And you can't be blaming the
poor clutch release on it anyway. That problem is in your pressure plate
or throw out bearing travel. If your six is an American engine for '79
and not the later f**ked up frog designed crank pilot hole, than you
shouldn't have to modify it like Will to fit your American Borg Warner
T-18 transmission. Here are three bearing/bushing manufacturers:
http://www.----------.com/I6pilotBearing.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Ron Croonenberg wrote:
>
> Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing)
>
> Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the
> input shaft of the tranny.
> Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard
> steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes
> real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine
> one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill
> thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing

Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
 

Hi Ron,
You may not be able to find a ball bearing type bushing. I wasn't
until these upholstered roller-skate invasion with their tiny engines
that used ball bearings instead of brass. And you can't be blaming the
poor clutch release on it anyway. That problem is in your pressure plate
or throw out bearing travel. If your six is an American engine for '79
and not the later f**ked up frog designed crank pilot hole, than you
shouldn't have to modify it like Will to fit your American Borg Warner
T-18 transmission. Here are three bearing/bushing manufacturers:
http://www.----------.com/I6pilotBearing.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

Ron Croonenberg wrote:
>
> Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing)
>
> Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the
> input shaft of the tranny.
> Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard
> steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes
> real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine
> one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill
> thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing