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clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hello,
I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when the car is not moving). So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. The ones I came up with [1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that makes the inputshaft turn. [2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or something [3] ??? what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? thanks, Ron |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think
that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to spin even without road resistance. Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for you. "Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... > Hello, > > I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those > for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. > > The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch > disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I > know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause > those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when > the car is not moving). > > So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. > > The ones I came up with > [1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that > makes the inputshaft turn. > [2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or > something > [3] ??? > > what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from > the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the > crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. > > Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , > few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. > > Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? > > thanks, > > Ron > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think
that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to spin even without road resistance. Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for you. "Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... > Hello, > > I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those > for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. > > The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch > disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I > know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause > those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when > the car is not moving). > > So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. > > The ones I came up with > [1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that > makes the inputshaft turn. > [2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or > something > [3] ??? > > what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from > the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the > crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. > > Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , > few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. > > Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? > > thanks, > > Ron > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think
that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to spin even without road resistance. Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for you. "Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... > Hello, > > I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those > for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. > > The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch > disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I > know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause > those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when > the car is not moving). > > So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. > > The ones I came up with > [1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that > makes the inputshaft turn. > [2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or > something > [3] ??? > > what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from > the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the > crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. > > Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , > few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. > > Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? > > thanks, > > Ron > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where
the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the clutchpedal if it is adjustable. What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel ? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, something would have worn out or broken) any other ideas are welcome. Ron fletcher wrote: > The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think > that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try > to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the > clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with > having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to > spin even without road resistance. > Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify > that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending > of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for > you. > > > "Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message > news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... > >>Hello, >> >>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those >>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. >> >>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch >>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I >>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause >>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when >>the car is not moving). >> >>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. >> >>The ones I came up with >>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that >> makes the inputshaft turn. >>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or >> something >>[3] ??? >> >>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from >>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the >>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. >> >>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , >>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. >> >>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? >> >>thanks, >> >>Ron >> > > > > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where
the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the clutchpedal if it is adjustable. What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel ? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, something would have worn out or broken) any other ideas are welcome. Ron fletcher wrote: > The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think > that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try > to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the > clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with > having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to > spin even without road resistance. > Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify > that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending > of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for > you. > > > "Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message > news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... > >>Hello, >> >>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those >>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. >> >>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch >>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I >>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause >>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when >>the car is not moving). >> >>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. >> >>The ones I came up with >>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that >> makes the inputshaft turn. >>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or >> something >>[3] ??? >> >>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from >>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the >>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. >> >>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , >>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. >> >>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? >> >>thanks, >> >>Ron >> > > > > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where
the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the clutchpedal if it is adjustable. What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel ? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, something would have worn out or broken) any other ideas are welcome. Ron fletcher wrote: > The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think > that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try > to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the > clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with > having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to > spin even without road resistance. > Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify > that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending > of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for > you. > > > "Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message > news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... > >>Hello, >> >>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those >>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. >> >>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch >>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I >>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause >>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when >>the car is not moving). >> >>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. >> >>The ones I came up with >>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that >> makes the inputshaft turn. >>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or >> something >>[3] ??? >> >>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from >>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the >>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. >> >>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , >>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. >> >>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? >> >>thanks, >> >>Ron >> > > > > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ron:
My Ford T-18 conversion does the same, though not bad enough to grind the gears. Disengaging the clutch, even in neutral, will still spin the wheels while up on jackstands. With the wheels on the ground, it doesn't seem to drag, try to move the Jeep, or load the engine. Best I can guess is that the input shaft gets enough torque from the pilot bushing to spin a bit (explains the spin even with clutch depressed), and must ride on one of the internal gears enough to transfer some torque. I've put about 1000 miles on it this way, and no problems yet. I've decided "that's the way it is", and not worried about it. Any T-18 guru's out there know more? Ryan ryansweany@earthlink.net (O|||||||O) Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bv8f74$k3f$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where > the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch > linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth > that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer > I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the > clutchpedal if it is adjustable. > > What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the > clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate > doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I > have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel > ? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem > seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be > a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the > pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? > > or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I > drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, > something would have worn out or broken) > > > any other ideas are welcome. > > > Ron > > > fletcher wrote: > > The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think > > that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try > > to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the > > clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with > > having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to > > spin even without road resistance. > > Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify > > that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending > > of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for > > you. > > > > > > "Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message > > news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... > > > >>Hello, > >> > >>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those > >>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. > >> > >>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch > >>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I > >>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause > >>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when > >>the car is not moving). > >> > >>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. > >> > >>The ones I came up with > >>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that > >> makes the inputshaft turn. > >>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or > >> something > >>[3] ??? > >> > >>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from > >>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the > >>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. > >> > >>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , > >>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. > >> > >>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? > >> > >>thanks, > >> > >>Ron > >> > > > > > > > > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ron:
My Ford T-18 conversion does the same, though not bad enough to grind the gears. Disengaging the clutch, even in neutral, will still spin the wheels while up on jackstands. With the wheels on the ground, it doesn't seem to drag, try to move the Jeep, or load the engine. Best I can guess is that the input shaft gets enough torque from the pilot bushing to spin a bit (explains the spin even with clutch depressed), and must ride on one of the internal gears enough to transfer some torque. I've put about 1000 miles on it this way, and no problems yet. I've decided "that's the way it is", and not worried about it. Any T-18 guru's out there know more? Ryan ryansweany@earthlink.net (O|||||||O) Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bv8f74$k3f$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where > the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch > linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth > that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer > I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the > clutchpedal if it is adjustable. > > What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the > clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate > doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I > have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel > ? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem > seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be > a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the > pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? > > or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I > drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, > something would have worn out or broken) > > > any other ideas are welcome. > > > Ron > > > fletcher wrote: > > The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think > > that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try > > to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the > > clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with > > having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to > > spin even without road resistance. > > Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify > > that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending > > of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for > > you. > > > > > > "Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message > > news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... > > > >>Hello, > >> > >>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those > >>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. > >> > >>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch > >>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I > >>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause > >>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when > >>the car is not moving). > >> > >>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. > >> > >>The ones I came up with > >>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that > >> makes the inputshaft turn. > >>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or > >> something > >>[3] ??? > >> > >>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from > >>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the > >>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. > >> > >>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , > >>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. > >> > >>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? > >> > >>thanks, > >> > >>Ron > >> > > > > > > > > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ron:
My Ford T-18 conversion does the same, though not bad enough to grind the gears. Disengaging the clutch, even in neutral, will still spin the wheels while up on jackstands. With the wheels on the ground, it doesn't seem to drag, try to move the Jeep, or load the engine. Best I can guess is that the input shaft gets enough torque from the pilot bushing to spin a bit (explains the spin even with clutch depressed), and must ride on one of the internal gears enough to transfer some torque. I've put about 1000 miles on it this way, and no problems yet. I've decided "that's the way it is", and not worried about it. Any T-18 guru's out there know more? Ryan ryansweany@earthlink.net (O|||||||O) Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bv8f74$k3f$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where > the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch > linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth > that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer > I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the > clutchpedal if it is adjustable. > > What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the > clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate > doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I > have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel > ? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem > seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be > a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the > pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? > > or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I > drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, > something would have worn out or broken) > > > any other ideas are welcome. > > > Ron > > > fletcher wrote: > > The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think > > that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try > > to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the > > clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with > > having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to > > spin even without road resistance. > > Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify > > that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending > > of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for > > you. > > > > > > "Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message > > news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... > > > >>Hello, > >> > >>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those > >>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. > >> > >>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch > >>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I > >>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause > >>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when > >>the car is not moving). > >> > >>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. > >> > >>The ones I came up with > >>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that > >> makes the inputshaft turn. > >>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or > >> something > >>[3] ??? > >> > >>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from > >>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the > >>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. > >> > >>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , > >>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. > >> > >>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? > >> > >>thanks, > >> > >>Ron > >> > > > > > > > > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hi Ryan,
Good to hear (this sounds bad doesn't it ?) that it's common or at least someone else has similar experiences. Also what might have made the problem a bit worse is that when I got the T18, I put in a new reverse gear and a new first gear (i was basically a bench rebuild). As you know those are exactly the ones that are not synchronized. When I drive it, it almost seems that shifting gears (especially back from 3rd to 2nd is getting worst when it "heated up ?" meaning after I drove it for 15-30 minutes. What helps best to shift into 1st and reverse is to come to a full stop in gear and then shift "real fast", at leat for me. But when I do it seems like the car "wants to move" as if engaged while on the parking/emergency break. (I still think shifting the tranny is too rough) I still wonder what it is that makes it do this. Also, I don't know if you remember but advanced adapters send out the conversion kits with the wrong pilot bushing at first, I had one of those. The pilot bushing wasn't big enough and could "fall out" (however when you think of it when the tranny is in there, how could that happen. The pilot bushing went in very "loose". I replaced it with the new one but that seemed to make the problem worse. So I took it apart for the 3rd time (or was it 4 or 5 ?) and put the original "wrong" too loose bushing in. If the pilot bushing is the problem (I considered this) then I might take it apart and see if I can polish the end of the input shaft and the spot the bushing goes in real good to see if that helps. But then again.... I think I drove it enough to think that it polished itself by now. The guy at the shop that did the conversion of the T18 for me (put in the conversion shaft and new gears) told me later "yeah that's what those T18 tranny's do (because the gears are not helical (spelled right ?) cut according to him). If anyone knows more about this, please let me/us know. Ron Ryan wrote: > Ron: > > My Ford T-18 conversion does the same, though not bad enough to grind > the gears. Disengaging the clutch, even in neutral, will still spin > the wheels while up on jackstands. With the wheels on the ground, it > doesn't seem to drag, try to move the Jeep, or load the engine. Best I > can guess is that the input shaft gets enough torque from the pilot > bushing to spin a bit (explains the spin even with clutch depressed), > and must ride on one of the internal gears enough to transfer some > torque. I've put about 1000 miles on it this way, and no problems yet. > I've decided "that's the way it is", and not worried about it. > > Any T-18 guru's out there know more? > > Ryan > ryansweany@earthlink.net > (O|||||||O) > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bv8f74$k3f$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where >>the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch >>linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth >>that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer >>I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the >>clutchpedal if it is adjustable. >> >>What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the >>clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate >>doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I >>have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel >>? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem >>seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be >>a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the >>pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? >> >>or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I >>drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, >>something would have worn out or broken) >> >> >>any other ideas are welcome. >> >> >>Ron >> >> >>fletcher wrote: >> >>>The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think >>>that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try >>>to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the >>>clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with >>>having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to >>>spin even without road resistance. >>>Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify >>>that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending >>>of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for >>>you. >>> >>> >>>"Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message >>>news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... >>> >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those >>>>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. >>>> >>>>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch >>>>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I >>>>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause >>>>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when >>>>the car is not moving). >>>> >>>>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. >>>> >>>>The ones I came up with >>>>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that >>>> makes the inputshaft turn. >>>>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or >>>> something >>>>[3] ??? >>>> >>>>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from >>>>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the >>>>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. >>>> >>>>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , >>>>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. >>>> >>>>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? >>>> >>>>thanks, >>>> >>>>Ron >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hi Ryan,
Good to hear (this sounds bad doesn't it ?) that it's common or at least someone else has similar experiences. Also what might have made the problem a bit worse is that when I got the T18, I put in a new reverse gear and a new first gear (i was basically a bench rebuild). As you know those are exactly the ones that are not synchronized. When I drive it, it almost seems that shifting gears (especially back from 3rd to 2nd is getting worst when it "heated up ?" meaning after I drove it for 15-30 minutes. What helps best to shift into 1st and reverse is to come to a full stop in gear and then shift "real fast", at leat for me. But when I do it seems like the car "wants to move" as if engaged while on the parking/emergency break. (I still think shifting the tranny is too rough) I still wonder what it is that makes it do this. Also, I don't know if you remember but advanced adapters send out the conversion kits with the wrong pilot bushing at first, I had one of those. The pilot bushing wasn't big enough and could "fall out" (however when you think of it when the tranny is in there, how could that happen. The pilot bushing went in very "loose". I replaced it with the new one but that seemed to make the problem worse. So I took it apart for the 3rd time (or was it 4 or 5 ?) and put the original "wrong" too loose bushing in. If the pilot bushing is the problem (I considered this) then I might take it apart and see if I can polish the end of the input shaft and the spot the bushing goes in real good to see if that helps. But then again.... I think I drove it enough to think that it polished itself by now. The guy at the shop that did the conversion of the T18 for me (put in the conversion shaft and new gears) told me later "yeah that's what those T18 tranny's do (because the gears are not helical (spelled right ?) cut according to him). If anyone knows more about this, please let me/us know. Ron Ryan wrote: > Ron: > > My Ford T-18 conversion does the same, though not bad enough to grind > the gears. Disengaging the clutch, even in neutral, will still spin > the wheels while up on jackstands. With the wheels on the ground, it > doesn't seem to drag, try to move the Jeep, or load the engine. Best I > can guess is that the input shaft gets enough torque from the pilot > bushing to spin a bit (explains the spin even with clutch depressed), > and must ride on one of the internal gears enough to transfer some > torque. I've put about 1000 miles on it this way, and no problems yet. > I've decided "that's the way it is", and not worried about it. > > Any T-18 guru's out there know more? > > Ryan > ryansweany@earthlink.net > (O|||||||O) > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bv8f74$k3f$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where >>the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch >>linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth >>that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer >>I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the >>clutchpedal if it is adjustable. >> >>What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the >>clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate >>doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I >>have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel >>? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem >>seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be >>a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the >>pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? >> >>or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I >>drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, >>something would have worn out or broken) >> >> >>any other ideas are welcome. >> >> >>Ron >> >> >>fletcher wrote: >> >>>The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think >>>that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try >>>to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the >>>clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with >>>having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to >>>spin even without road resistance. >>>Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify >>>that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending >>>of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for >>>you. >>> >>> >>>"Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message >>>news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... >>> >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those >>>>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. >>>> >>>>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch >>>>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I >>>>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause >>>>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when >>>>the car is not moving). >>>> >>>>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. >>>> >>>>The ones I came up with >>>>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that >>>> makes the inputshaft turn. >>>>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or >>>> something >>>>[3] ??? >>>> >>>>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from >>>>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the >>>>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. >>>> >>>>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , >>>>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. >>>> >>>>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? >>>> >>>>thanks, >>>> >>>>Ron >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hi Ryan,
Good to hear (this sounds bad doesn't it ?) that it's common or at least someone else has similar experiences. Also what might have made the problem a bit worse is that when I got the T18, I put in a new reverse gear and a new first gear (i was basically a bench rebuild). As you know those are exactly the ones that are not synchronized. When I drive it, it almost seems that shifting gears (especially back from 3rd to 2nd is getting worst when it "heated up ?" meaning after I drove it for 15-30 minutes. What helps best to shift into 1st and reverse is to come to a full stop in gear and then shift "real fast", at leat for me. But when I do it seems like the car "wants to move" as if engaged while on the parking/emergency break. (I still think shifting the tranny is too rough) I still wonder what it is that makes it do this. Also, I don't know if you remember but advanced adapters send out the conversion kits with the wrong pilot bushing at first, I had one of those. The pilot bushing wasn't big enough and could "fall out" (however when you think of it when the tranny is in there, how could that happen. The pilot bushing went in very "loose". I replaced it with the new one but that seemed to make the problem worse. So I took it apart for the 3rd time (or was it 4 or 5 ?) and put the original "wrong" too loose bushing in. If the pilot bushing is the problem (I considered this) then I might take it apart and see if I can polish the end of the input shaft and the spot the bushing goes in real good to see if that helps. But then again.... I think I drove it enough to think that it polished itself by now. The guy at the shop that did the conversion of the T18 for me (put in the conversion shaft and new gears) told me later "yeah that's what those T18 tranny's do (because the gears are not helical (spelled right ?) cut according to him). If anyone knows more about this, please let me/us know. Ron Ryan wrote: > Ron: > > My Ford T-18 conversion does the same, though not bad enough to grind > the gears. Disengaging the clutch, even in neutral, will still spin > the wheels while up on jackstands. With the wheels on the ground, it > doesn't seem to drag, try to move the Jeep, or load the engine. Best I > can guess is that the input shaft gets enough torque from the pilot > bushing to spin a bit (explains the spin even with clutch depressed), > and must ride on one of the internal gears enough to transfer some > torque. I've put about 1000 miles on it this way, and no problems yet. > I've decided "that's the way it is", and not worried about it. > > Any T-18 guru's out there know more? > > Ryan > ryansweany@earthlink.net > (O|||||||O) > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bv8f74$k3f$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where >>the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch >>linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth >>that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer >>I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the >>clutchpedal if it is adjustable. >> >>What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the >>clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate >>doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I >>have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel >>? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem >>seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be >>a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the >>pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? >> >>or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I >>drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, >>something would have worn out or broken) >> >> >>any other ideas are welcome. >> >> >>Ron >> >> >>fletcher wrote: >> >>>The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think >>>that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try >>>to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the >>>clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with >>>having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to >>>spin even without road resistance. >>>Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify >>>that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending >>>of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for >>>you. >>> >>> >>>"Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message >>>news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... >>> >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those >>>>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. >>>> >>>>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch >>>>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I >>>>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause >>>>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when >>>>the car is not moving). >>>> >>>>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. >>>> >>>>The ones I came up with >>>>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that >>>> makes the inputshaft turn. >>>>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or >>>> something >>>>[3] ??? >>>> >>>>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from >>>>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the >>>>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. >>>> >>>>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , >>>>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. >>>> >>>>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? >>>> >>>>thanks, >>>> >>>>Ron >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ryan, btw...
I have been wondering about the pilot bushin, maybe it is too much drag on that one that causes the problem. Would be nice if there's a bearing that could be used instead of a bushing. In a T18 conversion the bearing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) Is there anyone who knows the dimensions of the pilot bushing used for that conversion ? The bushing is really big, because it isn't going in the the pilot bushing hole .. but in the cavity just in front of it Ron Ryan wrote: > Ron: > > My Ford T-18 conversion does the same, though not bad enough to grind > the gears. Disengaging the clutch, even in neutral, will still spin > the wheels while up on jackstands. With the wheels on the ground, it > doesn't seem to drag, try to move the Jeep, or load the engine. Best I > can guess is that the input shaft gets enough torque from the pilot > bushing to spin a bit (explains the spin even with clutch depressed), > and must ride on one of the internal gears enough to transfer some > torque. I've put about 1000 miles on it this way, and no problems yet. > I've decided "that's the way it is", and not worried about it. > > Any T-18 guru's out there know more? > > Ryan > ryansweany@earthlink.net > (O|||||||O) > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bv8f74$k3f$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where >>the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch >>linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth >>that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer >>I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the >>clutchpedal if it is adjustable. >> >>What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the >>clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate >>doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I >>have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel >>? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem >>seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be >>a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the >>pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? >> >>or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I >>drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, >>something would have worn out or broken) >> >> >>any other ideas are welcome. >> >> >>Ron >> >> >>fletcher wrote: >> >>>The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think >>>that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try >>>to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the >>>clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with >>>having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to >>>spin even without road resistance. >>>Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify >>>that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending >>>of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for >>>you. >>> >>> >>>"Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message >>>news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... >>> >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those >>>>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. >>>> >>>>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch >>>>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I >>>>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause >>>>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when >>>>the car is not moving). >>>> >>>>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. >>>> >>>>The ones I came up with >>>>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that >>>> makes the inputshaft turn. >>>>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or >>>> something >>>>[3] ??? >>>> >>>>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from >>>>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the >>>>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. >>>> >>>>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , >>>>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. >>>> >>>>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? >>>> >>>>thanks, >>>> >>>>Ron >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ryan, btw...
I have been wondering about the pilot bushin, maybe it is too much drag on that one that causes the problem. Would be nice if there's a bearing that could be used instead of a bushing. In a T18 conversion the bearing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) Is there anyone who knows the dimensions of the pilot bushing used for that conversion ? The bushing is really big, because it isn't going in the the pilot bushing hole .. but in the cavity just in front of it Ron Ryan wrote: > Ron: > > My Ford T-18 conversion does the same, though not bad enough to grind > the gears. Disengaging the clutch, even in neutral, will still spin > the wheels while up on jackstands. With the wheels on the ground, it > doesn't seem to drag, try to move the Jeep, or load the engine. Best I > can guess is that the input shaft gets enough torque from the pilot > bushing to spin a bit (explains the spin even with clutch depressed), > and must ride on one of the internal gears enough to transfer some > torque. I've put about 1000 miles on it this way, and no problems yet. > I've decided "that's the way it is", and not worried about it. > > Any T-18 guru's out there know more? > > Ryan > ryansweany@earthlink.net > (O|||||||O) > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bv8f74$k3f$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where >>the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch >>linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth >>that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer >>I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the >>clutchpedal if it is adjustable. >> >>What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the >>clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate >>doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I >>have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel >>? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem >>seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be >>a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the >>pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? >> >>or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I >>drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, >>something would have worn out or broken) >> >> >>any other ideas are welcome. >> >> >>Ron >> >> >>fletcher wrote: >> >>>The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think >>>that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try >>>to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the >>>clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with >>>having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to >>>spin even without road resistance. >>>Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify >>>that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending >>>of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for >>>you. >>> >>> >>>"Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message >>>news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... >>> >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those >>>>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. >>>> >>>>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch >>>>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I >>>>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause >>>>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when >>>>the car is not moving). >>>> >>>>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. >>>> >>>>The ones I came up with >>>>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that >>>> makes the inputshaft turn. >>>>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or >>>> something >>>>[3] ??? >>>> >>>>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from >>>>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the >>>>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. >>>> >>>>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , >>>>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. >>>> >>>>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? >>>> >>>>thanks, >>>> >>>>Ron >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ryan, btw...
I have been wondering about the pilot bushin, maybe it is too much drag on that one that causes the problem. Would be nice if there's a bearing that could be used instead of a bushing. In a T18 conversion the bearing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) Is there anyone who knows the dimensions of the pilot bushing used for that conversion ? The bushing is really big, because it isn't going in the the pilot bushing hole .. but in the cavity just in front of it Ron Ryan wrote: > Ron: > > My Ford T-18 conversion does the same, though not bad enough to grind > the gears. Disengaging the clutch, even in neutral, will still spin > the wheels while up on jackstands. With the wheels on the ground, it > doesn't seem to drag, try to move the Jeep, or load the engine. Best I > can guess is that the input shaft gets enough torque from the pilot > bushing to spin a bit (explains the spin even with clutch depressed), > and must ride on one of the internal gears enough to transfer some > torque. I've put about 1000 miles on it this way, and no problems yet. > I've decided "that's the way it is", and not worried about it. > > Any T-18 guru's out there know more? > > Ryan > ryansweany@earthlink.net > (O|||||||O) > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bv8f74$k3f$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>actually what I did too was take the linkage off and have the arm where >>the adjustable part attaches too extended. that way the arm/clutch >>linkage has more "throw" (and it is way harder to disengage the cluth >>that way btw. Also because that throw/travel of the clutchfork is longer >>I tried to play with it a bit, so that I can "see/feel" when I push the >>clutchpedal if it is adjustable. >> >>What I am looking for now is other possible causes. Even though the >>clutch (disk and pressure plate) are new. Maybe the pressure plate >>doesn't release the pressure all the way ? Could it be that the disk I >>have is too thick and it drags inbetween the pressure plate and flywheel >>? On thing that is typical is that when I drive it for a bit the problem >>seem to get worse. when I let it sit for 15-30 mins then it seems to be >>a bit better again. So it almost seems that something heats up (the >>pressure plate ?) extends and the clutch disk drags even more ? >> >>or is it a tranny problem ? of course the tranny heats up too when I >>drive the CJ. (although I can imagine that when that was the case, >>something would have worn out or broken) >> >> >>any other ideas are welcome. >> >> >>Ron >> >> >>fletcher wrote: >> >>>The washer to space out the tranny / bellhousing was a good idea. I think >>>that would be a great test and you can eliminate the idea #1. Can you try >>>to over-adjust your clutch pedal so that you are sure you are moving the >>>clutch plate fully off the flywheel. Maybe do that in conjunction with >>>having the rear axle on jackstands so you can see if the rear wheels try to >>>spin even without road resistance. >>>Have you replaced or checked all of your clutch linkage pieces to verify >>>that all of your pedal travel is getting to the clutch and not just bending >>>of flexing linkage pieces? All just ideas, I don't have a real answer for >>>you. >>> >>> >>>"Ron Croonenberg" <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message >>>news:bv6k0e$7pm$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu... >>> >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>I have a '79 CJ5 258, used to have a T150 and a dana20, swapped those >>>>for a T18 out of a ford and a Dana300. >>>> >>>>The problem I have is that it seems that even when the clutch >>>>disengages, the inputshaft still seems to be turned just slightly. I >>>>know because when I try to shift (especially to first and reverse (cause >>>>those are not synchronized), it shifts real rough even grinds (even when >>>>the car is not moving). >>>> >>>>So I am looking for any pointer why it could be doing that. >>>> >>>>The ones I came up with >>>>[1] The tranny inputshaft is "riding up" against the crank and that >>>> makes the inputshaft turn. >>>>[2] The clutch doesn't really disengage and drags on the flywheel or >>>> something >>>>[3] ??? >>>> >>>>what I did is use a few washer to temporarily back the tranny off from >>>>the bellhousing. That way I know that the inputshaft isn't touching the >>>>crank. but that didn't seem to make the problem go away. >>>> >>>>Also the problem seems to get worse when I drive the Jeep for a bit , >>>>few miles or so) shifting seems to be really rough then. >>>> >>>>Any tips in figuring out what exactly could be the problem ? >>>> >>>>thanks, >>>> >>>>Ron >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
whoops I meant :
In a T18 conversion the bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) Ron Croonenberg wrote: In a T18 conversion the bearing > used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. > (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
whoops I meant :
In a T18 conversion the bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) Ron Croonenberg wrote: In a T18 conversion the bearing > used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. > (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
whoops I meant :
In a T18 conversion the bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) Ron Croonenberg wrote: In a T18 conversion the bearing > used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. > (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ron:
It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a complete stop. Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as well. Ryan Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > whoops I meant : > > > > In a T18 conversion the > bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can > be used. > (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) > > > Ron Croonenberg wrote: > > In a T18 conversion the bearing > > used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. > > (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ron:
It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a complete stop. Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as well. Ryan Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > whoops I meant : > > > > In a T18 conversion the > bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can > be used. > (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) > > > Ron Croonenberg wrote: > > In a T18 conversion the bearing > > used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. > > (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ron:
It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a complete stop. Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as well. Ryan Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > whoops I meant : > > > > In a T18 conversion the > bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can > be used. > (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) > > > Ron Croonenberg wrote: > > In a T18 conversion the bearing > > used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. > > (that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hi Ryan,
I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail that is. According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150, Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and the skidplate was custom built) if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the measurements of that bushing/bearing. One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url) that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that inputshaft. I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with that T18 "thing". thanks, Ron Ryan wrote: > Ron: > > It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a > different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to > downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a > complete stop. > > Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A > quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. > The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that > is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may > be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. > > Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as > well. > > Ryan > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>whoops I meant : >> >> >> >> In a T18 conversion the >>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can >>be used. >>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) >> >> >>Ron Croonenberg wrote: >> >> In a T18 conversion the bearing >> >>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. >>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hi Ryan,
I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail that is. According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150, Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and the skidplate was custom built) if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the measurements of that bushing/bearing. One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url) that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that inputshaft. I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with that T18 "thing". thanks, Ron Ryan wrote: > Ron: > > It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a > different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to > downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a > complete stop. > > Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A > quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. > The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that > is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may > be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. > > Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as > well. > > Ryan > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>whoops I meant : >> >> >> >> In a T18 conversion the >>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can >>be used. >>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) >> >> >>Ron Croonenberg wrote: >> >> In a T18 conversion the bearing >> >>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. >>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hi Ryan,
I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail that is. According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150, Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and the skidplate was custom built) if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the measurements of that bushing/bearing. One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url) that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that inputshaft. I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with that T18 "thing". thanks, Ron Ryan wrote: > Ron: > > It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a > different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to > downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a > complete stop. > > Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A > quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. > The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that > is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may > be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. > > Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as > well. > > Ryan > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>whoops I meant : >> >> >> >> In a T18 conversion the >>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can >>be used. >>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) >> >> >>Ron Croonenberg wrote: >> >> In a T18 conversion the bearing >> >>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. >>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ron:
Sure, forward any info you have from Novak. Since I am running exactly the same setup as you (AMC engine, T-150 bellhousing, T-18 trans, D300 T-case), I would LOVE to know if there is an alignment problem. For as few miles as I put on the Jeep, I might look at a softer metal bushing. The local machine shop may be able to cut one from "self-lubricating" brass/bronze/whatever. I'm hitting the trails down in French Lick with some Indiana FWDA guys this weekend. At least one of them has the AMC Engine /Ford T-18 combo. I'll pick their brains and post what I learn. Ryan ryansweany@earthlink.net (O|||||||O) Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvo84q$2dc$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > Hi Ryan, > > I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail > that is. > > According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it > is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the > engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that > bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150, > Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and > the skidplate was custom built) > > if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the > measurements of that bushing/bearing. > > One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url) > that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the > inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a > bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that > inputshaft. > > I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with > that T18 "thing". > > thanks, > > Ron > > > Ryan wrote: > > Ron: > > > > It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a > > different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to > > downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a > > complete stop. > > > > Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A > > quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. > > The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that > > is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may > > be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. > > > > Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as > > well. > > > > Ryan > > > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > > > >>whoops I meant : > >> > >> > >> > >> In a T18 conversion the > >>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can > >>be used. > >>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) > >> > >> > >>Ron Croonenberg wrote: > >> > >> In a T18 conversion the bearing > >> > >>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. > >>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ron:
Sure, forward any info you have from Novak. Since I am running exactly the same setup as you (AMC engine, T-150 bellhousing, T-18 trans, D300 T-case), I would LOVE to know if there is an alignment problem. For as few miles as I put on the Jeep, I might look at a softer metal bushing. The local machine shop may be able to cut one from "self-lubricating" brass/bronze/whatever. I'm hitting the trails down in French Lick with some Indiana FWDA guys this weekend. At least one of them has the AMC Engine /Ford T-18 combo. I'll pick their brains and post what I learn. Ryan ryansweany@earthlink.net (O|||||||O) Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvo84q$2dc$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > Hi Ryan, > > I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail > that is. > > According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it > is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the > engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that > bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150, > Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and > the skidplate was custom built) > > if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the > measurements of that bushing/bearing. > > One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url) > that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the > inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a > bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that > inputshaft. > > I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with > that T18 "thing". > > thanks, > > Ron > > > Ryan wrote: > > Ron: > > > > It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a > > different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to > > downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a > > complete stop. > > > > Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A > > quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. > > The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that > > is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may > > be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. > > > > Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as > > well. > > > > Ryan > > > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > > > >>whoops I meant : > >> > >> > >> > >> In a T18 conversion the > >>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can > >>be used. > >>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) > >> > >> > >>Ron Croonenberg wrote: > >> > >> In a T18 conversion the bearing > >> > >>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. > >>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ron:
Sure, forward any info you have from Novak. Since I am running exactly the same setup as you (AMC engine, T-150 bellhousing, T-18 trans, D300 T-case), I would LOVE to know if there is an alignment problem. For as few miles as I put on the Jeep, I might look at a softer metal bushing. The local machine shop may be able to cut one from "self-lubricating" brass/bronze/whatever. I'm hitting the trails down in French Lick with some Indiana FWDA guys this weekend. At least one of them has the AMC Engine /Ford T-18 combo. I'll pick their brains and post what I learn. Ryan ryansweany@earthlink.net (O|||||||O) Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvo84q$2dc$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > Hi Ryan, > > I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail > that is. > > According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it > is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the > engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that > bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150, > Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and > the skidplate was custom built) > > if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the > measurements of that bushing/bearing. > > One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url) > that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the > inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a > bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that > inputshaft. > > I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with > that T18 "thing". > > thanks, > > Ron > > > Ryan wrote: > > Ron: > > > > It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a > > different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to > > downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a > > complete stop. > > > > Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A > > quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. > > The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that > > is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may > > be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. > > > > Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as > > well. > > > > Ryan > > > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > > > >>whoops I meant : > >> > >> > >> > >> In a T18 conversion the > >>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can > >>be used. > >>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) > >> > >> > >>Ron Croonenberg wrote: > >> > >> In a T18 conversion the bearing > >> > >>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. > >>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
> Sure, forward any info you have from Novak. Since I am running exactly
> the same setup as you (AMC engine, T-150 bellhousing, T-18 trans, D300 > T-case), I would LOVE to know if there is an alignment problem. Ok here's what I found out yesterday : As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing : 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking about a possible alternative. They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551) when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the paperwork at home) > For as few miles as I put on the Jeep, I might look at a softer metal > bushing. The local machine shop may be able to cut one from > "self-lubricating" brass/bronze/whatever. Yeah mine doesn't get that many miles on it either. > I'm hitting the trails down in French Lick with some Indiana FWDA guys > this weekend. At least one of them has the AMC Engine /Ford T-18 > combo. I'll pick their brains and post what I learn. Hey wait.. you're from IN ?? Cool I just moved here a year ago, don't know about that many places to go (except for a 4wd park and a ditch or 2 here and there.) thanks, Ron > Ryan > ryansweany@earthlink.net > (O|||||||O) > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvo84q$2dc$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>Hi Ryan, >> >>I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail >>that is. >> >>According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it >>is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the >>engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that >>bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150, >>Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and >>the skidplate was custom built) >> >>if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the >> measurements of that bushing/bearing. >> >>One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url) >>that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the >>inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a >>bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that >>inputshaft. >> >>I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with >>that T18 "thing". >> >>thanks, >> >>Ron >> >> >>Ryan wrote: >> >>>Ron: >>> >>>It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a >>>different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to >>>downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a >>>complete stop. >>> >>>Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A >>>quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. >>>The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that >>>is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may >>>be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. >>> >>>Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as >>>well. >>> >>>Ryan >>> >>>Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... >>> >>> >>>>whoops I meant : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In a T18 conversion the >>>>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can >>>>be used. >>>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) >>>> >>>> >>>>Ron Croonenberg wrote: >>>> >>>> In a T18 conversion the bearing >>>> >>>> >>>>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. >>>>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
> Sure, forward any info you have from Novak. Since I am running exactly
> the same setup as you (AMC engine, T-150 bellhousing, T-18 trans, D300 > T-case), I would LOVE to know if there is an alignment problem. Ok here's what I found out yesterday : As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing : 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking about a possible alternative. They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551) when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the paperwork at home) > For as few miles as I put on the Jeep, I might look at a softer metal > bushing. The local machine shop may be able to cut one from > "self-lubricating" brass/bronze/whatever. Yeah mine doesn't get that many miles on it either. > I'm hitting the trails down in French Lick with some Indiana FWDA guys > this weekend. At least one of them has the AMC Engine /Ford T-18 > combo. I'll pick their brains and post what I learn. Hey wait.. you're from IN ?? Cool I just moved here a year ago, don't know about that many places to go (except for a 4wd park and a ditch or 2 here and there.) thanks, Ron > Ryan > ryansweany@earthlink.net > (O|||||||O) > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvo84q$2dc$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>Hi Ryan, >> >>I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail >>that is. >> >>According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it >>is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the >>engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that >>bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150, >>Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and >>the skidplate was custom built) >> >>if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the >> measurements of that bushing/bearing. >> >>One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url) >>that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the >>inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a >>bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that >>inputshaft. >> >>I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with >>that T18 "thing". >> >>thanks, >> >>Ron >> >> >>Ryan wrote: >> >>>Ron: >>> >>>It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a >>>different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to >>>downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a >>>complete stop. >>> >>>Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A >>>quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. >>>The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that >>>is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may >>>be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. >>> >>>Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as >>>well. >>> >>>Ryan >>> >>>Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... >>> >>> >>>>whoops I meant : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In a T18 conversion the >>>>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can >>>>be used. >>>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) >>>> >>>> >>>>Ron Croonenberg wrote: >>>> >>>> In a T18 conversion the bearing >>>> >>>> >>>>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. >>>>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
> Sure, forward any info you have from Novak. Since I am running exactly
> the same setup as you (AMC engine, T-150 bellhousing, T-18 trans, D300 > T-case), I would LOVE to know if there is an alignment problem. Ok here's what I found out yesterday : As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing : 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking about a possible alternative. They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551) when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the paperwork at home) > For as few miles as I put on the Jeep, I might look at a softer metal > bushing. The local machine shop may be able to cut one from > "self-lubricating" brass/bronze/whatever. Yeah mine doesn't get that many miles on it either. > I'm hitting the trails down in French Lick with some Indiana FWDA guys > this weekend. At least one of them has the AMC Engine /Ford T-18 > combo. I'll pick their brains and post what I learn. Hey wait.. you're from IN ?? Cool I just moved here a year ago, don't know about that many places to go (except for a 4wd park and a ditch or 2 here and there.) thanks, Ron > Ryan > ryansweany@earthlink.net > (O|||||||O) > > Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvo84q$2dc$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... > >>Hi Ryan, >> >>I have been talking to a guy from Novak for a bit yesterday, by e-mail >>that is. >> >>According to him I have "an allignment" problem. From what he told me it >>is most likely the case that my tranny is not straight behind the >>engine. (weird thing is though that I never had a problem with that >>bellhousing and and the T150 that was there. But then again, T150, >>Dana20 and skidplate are all replaced. (T150+Dana20 --> T18+dana300 and >>the skidplate was custom built) >> >>if you want I can forward some mail from him to you. btw thanks for the >> measurements of that bushing/bearing. >> >>One thing that kinda surprised me was, he told me (and gave me a url) >>that said that because of different heat treatment procedures of the >>inputshaft, it is unwise to use a bearing. I had the impression that a >>bearing would cause less friction compared to using a bushing on that >>inputshaft. >> >>I will also try to find more info on figuring out what's happening with >>that T18 "thing". >> >>thanks, >> >>Ron >> >> >>Ryan wrote: >> >>>Ron: >>> >>>It sure sounds like you and I are having the same "problem", with a >>>different severity of symptoms. At worst, I have to double-clutch to >>>downshift to 2nd. First and reverse are off-limits unless I come to a >>>complete stop. >>> >>>Advance Adapters forgot to even ship a pilot bushing the first time. A >>>quick phone call, and the right one was at may door a few days later. >>>The AA part number is 716156. According to their parts catalog, that >>>is a 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" deep bushing. A good parts store may >>>be able to match up a roller- or needle-bearing. >>> >>>Let me know if you find out anything! I'll continue to ask around as >>>well. >>> >>>Ryan >>> >>>Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu> wrote in message news:<bvm4i5$jlh$1@terra.csc.depauw.edu>... >>> >>> >>>>whoops I meant : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In a T18 conversion the >>>>bushing used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can >>>>be used. >>>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) >>>> >>>> >>>>Ron Croonenberg wrote: >>>> >>>> In a T18 conversion the bearing >>>> >>>> >>>>>used is plenty big, must be possible to find a bearing that can be used. >>>>>(that is if that would help getting rid of the drag.) |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:50:15 UTC Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu>
wrote: > As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing : > 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" > > Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking > about a possible alternative. > > They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP > and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551) > when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says > that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the > differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ > though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the > paperwork at home) When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked. Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going. -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:50:15 UTC Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu>
wrote: > As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing : > 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" > > Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking > about a possible alternative. > > They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP > and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551) > when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says > that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the > differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ > though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the > paperwork at home) When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked. Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going. -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:50:15 UTC Ron Croonenberg <ronc@depauw.edu>
wrote: > As you mentioned these are the dimensions of the bushing : > 1.818" OD x .670" ID x .5" > > Now I called around a bit and ended up with someone from Timken talking > about a possible alternative. > > They have a bearing (partnumber) : 303PP > and the dimensions are very close (OD 1.8504 x ID 0.693 x 0.551) > when you look at the differences in metric (for some reason Timken says > that all bearings they produce are measured in metric) then the > differences are very little. I don't know how big a hammer they differ > though. (might be I made a typo in the dimensions, but I have the > paperwork at home) When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked. Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going. -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing)
Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the input shaft of the tranny. Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing > When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local > Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they > had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and > depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something > like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep > dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took > it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and > honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk > hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked. > Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on > my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going. > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing)
Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the input shaft of the tranny. Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing > When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local > Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they > had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and > depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something > like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep > dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took > it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and > honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk > hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked. > Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on > my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going. > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing)
Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the input shaft of the tranny. Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing > When I needed a pilot bushing for a conversion I wound up at the local > Checker auto with a micrometer and went thru a couple of boxes they > had for various GM/FORD products. I found one with the right ID and > depth that was slightly oversized on the outside diameter - something > like .010 AIR - and took that since it was a Sunday morning, Jeep > dealer was on the other side of town and I wanted to get done. Took > it home, chucked it on a 1/2 inch bolt, threw it on the drill and > honed it down with a piece of emory cloth. I didn't want to risk > hammering it in with even .010 excess, altough that might have worked. > Took about 10 minutes of sanding and cost less than $3.00 to get on > my way. 60,000 miles later, it's still going. > |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hi Ron,
You may not be able to find a ball bearing type bushing. I wasn't until these upholstered roller-skate invasion with their tiny engines that used ball bearings instead of brass. And you can't be blaming the poor clutch release on it anyway. That problem is in your pressure plate or throw out bearing travel. If your six is an American engine for '79 and not the later f**ked up frog designed crank pilot hole, than you shouldn't have to modify it like Will to fit your American Borg Warner T-18 transmission. Here are three bearing/bushing manufacturers: http://www.----------.com/I6pilotBearing.jpg God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- Ron Croonenberg wrote: > > Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing) > > Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the > input shaft of the tranny. > Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard > steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes > real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine > one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill > thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hi Ron,
You may not be able to find a ball bearing type bushing. I wasn't until these upholstered roller-skate invasion with their tiny engines that used ball bearings instead of brass. And you can't be blaming the poor clutch release on it anyway. That problem is in your pressure plate or throw out bearing travel. If your six is an American engine for '79 and not the later f**ked up frog designed crank pilot hole, than you shouldn't have to modify it like Will to fit your American Borg Warner T-18 transmission. Here are three bearing/bushing manufacturers: http://www.----------.com/I6pilotBearing.jpg God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- Ron Croonenberg wrote: > > Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing) > > Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the > input shaft of the tranny. > Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard > steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes > real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine > one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill > thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing |
Re: clutch problem after T18 conversion
Hi Ron,
You may not be able to find a ball bearing type bushing. I wasn't until these upholstered roller-skate invasion with their tiny engines that used ball bearings instead of brass. And you can't be blaming the poor clutch release on it anyway. That problem is in your pressure plate or throw out bearing travel. If your six is an American engine for '79 and not the later f**ked up frog designed crank pilot hole, than you shouldn't have to modify it like Will to fit your American Borg Warner T-18 transmission. Here are three bearing/bushing manufacturers: http://www.----------.com/I6pilotBearing.jpg God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- Ron Croonenberg wrote: > > Ok, but I am looking for a bearing (a sealed ball bearing) > > Some people that did a T18 conversion have trouble with "drag" on the > input shaft of the tranny. > Because the cup/cone/races of a ball bearing are made out of very hard > steel, you want to either find the exact size or something that comes > real close. (and if it isn't close enough one might be able to machine > one of the surfaces) I was already wondering how you did that bolt/drill > thing. works with a pilot bushing probably not with a ballbearing |
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