CJ handling problems after 4" lift
05-18-2005, 10:02 AM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:30:06 -0400 in
<428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
graced the world with this thought:
>You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
>
>The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
>either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
>
>For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
>they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
>finder or plumb bob to get it.
>
>With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
>'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
>
>I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
>shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
>ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
>he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
>borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
Something to add to this, if you aren't accustomed to a lift on a
Jeep, it takes a while to get used to. My CJ has a 6" lift, and when I
first started driving it, it seemed squirrely as hell, on top of
which, any little twitch I made seemed like an overcorrection,
probably because of the short wheelbase. Passing someone on a two lane
backcountry road scared the hell out of me when both of us were going,
say, 50mph (try passing a Dakota pulling a boat, on a two lane bridge
with a 45mph speed limit, then check your pants...). It definitely
took a few months of regular driving before I realized that for the
most part, you have to let the vehicle drive itself, you'll wear
yourself out trying to make it steer like a Pontiac. Now, after 15
years of driving it this way, it doesn't even phase me. Of course, if
that alignment is off, you'd have to take care of that first, or it
won't steer itself terribly well.
80 CJ5 35X12.50 M/T's 258
<428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
graced the world with this thought:
>You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
>
>The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
>either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
>
>For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
>they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
>finder or plumb bob to get it.
>
>With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
>'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
>
>I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
>shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
>ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
>he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
>borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
Something to add to this, if you aren't accustomed to a lift on a
Jeep, it takes a while to get used to. My CJ has a 6" lift, and when I
first started driving it, it seemed squirrely as hell, on top of
which, any little twitch I made seemed like an overcorrection,
probably because of the short wheelbase. Passing someone on a two lane
backcountry road scared the hell out of me when both of us were going,
say, 50mph (try passing a Dakota pulling a boat, on a two lane bridge
with a 45mph speed limit, then check your pants...). It definitely
took a few months of regular driving before I realized that for the
most part, you have to let the vehicle drive itself, you'll wear
yourself out trying to make it steer like a Pontiac. Now, after 15
years of driving it this way, it doesn't even phase me. Of course, if
that alignment is off, you'd have to take care of that first, or it
won't steer itself terribly well.
80 CJ5 35X12.50 M/T's 258
05-18-2005, 10:02 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:30:06 -0400 in
<428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
graced the world with this thought:
>You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
>
>The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
>either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
>
>For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
>they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
>finder or plumb bob to get it.
>
>With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
>'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
>
>I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
>shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
>ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
>he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
>borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
Something to add to this, if you aren't accustomed to a lift on a
Jeep, it takes a while to get used to. My CJ has a 6" lift, and when I
first started driving it, it seemed squirrely as hell, on top of
which, any little twitch I made seemed like an overcorrection,
probably because of the short wheelbase. Passing someone on a two lane
backcountry road scared the hell out of me when both of us were going,
say, 50mph (try passing a Dakota pulling a boat, on a two lane bridge
with a 45mph speed limit, then check your pants...). It definitely
took a few months of regular driving before I realized that for the
most part, you have to let the vehicle drive itself, you'll wear
yourself out trying to make it steer like a Pontiac. Now, after 15
years of driving it this way, it doesn't even phase me. Of course, if
that alignment is off, you'd have to take care of that first, or it
won't steer itself terribly well.
80 CJ5 35X12.50 M/T's 258
<428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
graced the world with this thought:
>You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
>
>The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
>either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
>
>For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
>they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
>finder or plumb bob to get it.
>
>With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
>'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
>
>I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
>shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
>ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
>he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
>borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
Something to add to this, if you aren't accustomed to a lift on a
Jeep, it takes a while to get used to. My CJ has a 6" lift, and when I
first started driving it, it seemed squirrely as hell, on top of
which, any little twitch I made seemed like an overcorrection,
probably because of the short wheelbase. Passing someone on a two lane
backcountry road scared the hell out of me when both of us were going,
say, 50mph (try passing a Dakota pulling a boat, on a two lane bridge
with a 45mph speed limit, then check your pants...). It definitely
took a few months of regular driving before I realized that for the
most part, you have to let the vehicle drive itself, you'll wear
yourself out trying to make it steer like a Pontiac. Now, after 15
years of driving it this way, it doesn't even phase me. Of course, if
that alignment is off, you'd have to take care of that first, or it
won't steer itself terribly well.
80 CJ5 35X12.50 M/T's 258
05-18-2005, 10:02 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:30:06 -0400 in
<428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
graced the world with this thought:
>You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
>
>The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
>either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
>
>For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
>they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
>finder or plumb bob to get it.
>
>With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
>'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
>
>I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
>shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
>ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
>he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
>borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
Something to add to this, if you aren't accustomed to a lift on a
Jeep, it takes a while to get used to. My CJ has a 6" lift, and when I
first started driving it, it seemed squirrely as hell, on top of
which, any little twitch I made seemed like an overcorrection,
probably because of the short wheelbase. Passing someone on a two lane
backcountry road scared the hell out of me when both of us were going,
say, 50mph (try passing a Dakota pulling a boat, on a two lane bridge
with a 45mph speed limit, then check your pants...). It definitely
took a few months of regular driving before I realized that for the
most part, you have to let the vehicle drive itself, you'll wear
yourself out trying to make it steer like a Pontiac. Now, after 15
years of driving it this way, it doesn't even phase me. Of course, if
that alignment is off, you'd have to take care of that first, or it
won't steer itself terribly well.
80 CJ5 35X12.50 M/T's 258
<428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
graced the world with this thought:
>You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
>
>The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
>either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
>
>For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
>they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
>finder or plumb bob to get it.
>
>With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
>'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
>
>I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
>shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
>ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
>he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
>borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
Something to add to this, if you aren't accustomed to a lift on a
Jeep, it takes a while to get used to. My CJ has a 6" lift, and when I
first started driving it, it seemed squirrely as hell, on top of
which, any little twitch I made seemed like an overcorrection,
probably because of the short wheelbase. Passing someone on a two lane
backcountry road scared the hell out of me when both of us were going,
say, 50mph (try passing a Dakota pulling a boat, on a two lane bridge
with a 45mph speed limit, then check your pants...). It definitely
took a few months of regular driving before I realized that for the
most part, you have to let the vehicle drive itself, you'll wear
yourself out trying to make it steer like a Pontiac. Now, after 15
years of driving it this way, it doesn't even phase me. Of course, if
that alignment is off, you'd have to take care of that first, or it
won't steer itself terribly well.
80 CJ5 35X12.50 M/T's 258
05-18-2005, 10:10 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
Hi Tracy,
That long a shackle and you have to add a track bar, like the YJ
uses: http://www.jksmfg.com/telescoping_track_bar.htm to take up some of
that slop. Also remount your dampener to go from the driver's side frame
down to the tie rod:
http://www.bds-suspension.com/graphi...nsteerstab.jpg that
way when you're turning and your Jeep shifts over the axle the dampener
will push the wheels in that direction, compromising that shift energy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
>
> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and 31x10.5
> tires. Road handling was great.
>
> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at an
> alignment shop.
>
> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve on
> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> vibration.
>
> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> steer.
> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> handling a bit more predictable.
> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> vibration.
> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were in
> good shape.
>
> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace the
> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tracy
That long a shackle and you have to add a track bar, like the YJ
uses: http://www.jksmfg.com/telescoping_track_bar.htm to take up some of
that slop. Also remount your dampener to go from the driver's side frame
down to the tie rod:
http://www.bds-suspension.com/graphi...nsteerstab.jpg that
way when you're turning and your Jeep shifts over the axle the dampener
will push the wheels in that direction, compromising that shift energy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
>
> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and 31x10.5
> tires. Road handling was great.
>
> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at an
> alignment shop.
>
> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve on
> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> vibration.
>
> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> steer.
> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> handling a bit more predictable.
> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> vibration.
> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were in
> good shape.
>
> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace the
> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tracy
05-18-2005, 10:10 AM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
Hi Tracy,
That long a shackle and you have to add a track bar, like the YJ
uses: http://www.jksmfg.com/telescoping_track_bar.htm to take up some of
that slop. Also remount your dampener to go from the driver's side frame
down to the tie rod:
http://www.bds-suspension.com/graphi...nsteerstab.jpg that
way when you're turning and your Jeep shifts over the axle the dampener
will push the wheels in that direction, compromising that shift energy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
>
> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and 31x10.5
> tires. Road handling was great.
>
> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at an
> alignment shop.
>
> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve on
> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> vibration.
>
> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> steer.
> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> handling a bit more predictable.
> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> vibration.
> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were in
> good shape.
>
> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace the
> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tracy
That long a shackle and you have to add a track bar, like the YJ
uses: http://www.jksmfg.com/telescoping_track_bar.htm to take up some of
that slop. Also remount your dampener to go from the driver's side frame
down to the tie rod:
http://www.bds-suspension.com/graphi...nsteerstab.jpg that
way when you're turning and your Jeep shifts over the axle the dampener
will push the wheels in that direction, compromising that shift energy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
>
> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and 31x10.5
> tires. Road handling was great.
>
> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at an
> alignment shop.
>
> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve on
> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> vibration.
>
> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> steer.
> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> handling a bit more predictable.
> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> vibration.
> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were in
> good shape.
>
> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace the
> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tracy
05-18-2005, 10:10 AM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
Hi Tracy,
That long a shackle and you have to add a track bar, like the YJ
uses: http://www.jksmfg.com/telescoping_track_bar.htm to take up some of
that slop. Also remount your dampener to go from the driver's side frame
down to the tie rod:
http://www.bds-suspension.com/graphi...nsteerstab.jpg that
way when you're turning and your Jeep shifts over the axle the dampener
will push the wheels in that direction, compromising that shift energy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
>
> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and 31x10.5
> tires. Road handling was great.
>
> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at an
> alignment shop.
>
> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve on
> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> vibration.
>
> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> steer.
> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> handling a bit more predictable.
> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> vibration.
> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were in
> good shape.
>
> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace the
> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tracy
That long a shackle and you have to add a track bar, like the YJ
uses: http://www.jksmfg.com/telescoping_track_bar.htm to take up some of
that slop. Also remount your dampener to go from the driver's side frame
down to the tie rod:
http://www.bds-suspension.com/graphi...nsteerstab.jpg that
way when you're turning and your Jeep shifts over the axle the dampener
will push the wheels in that direction, compromising that shift energy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
>
> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and 31x10.5
> tires. Road handling was great.
>
> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at an
> alignment shop.
>
> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve on
> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> vibration.
>
> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> steer.
> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> handling a bit more predictable.
> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> vibration.
> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were in
> good shape.
>
> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace the
> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tracy
05-18-2005, 10:10 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
Hi Tracy,
That long a shackle and you have to add a track bar, like the YJ
uses: http://www.jksmfg.com/telescoping_track_bar.htm to take up some of
that slop. Also remount your dampener to go from the driver's side frame
down to the tie rod:
http://www.bds-suspension.com/graphi...nsteerstab.jpg that
way when you're turning and your Jeep shifts over the axle the dampener
will push the wheels in that direction, compromising that shift energy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
>
> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and 31x10.5
> tires. Road handling was great.
>
> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at an
> alignment shop.
>
> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve on
> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> vibration.
>
> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> steer.
> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> handling a bit more predictable.
> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> vibration.
> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were in
> good shape.
>
> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace the
> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tracy
That long a shackle and you have to add a track bar, like the YJ
uses: http://www.jksmfg.com/telescoping_track_bar.htm to take up some of
that slop. Also remount your dampener to go from the driver's side frame
down to the tie rod:
http://www.bds-suspension.com/graphi...nsteerstab.jpg that
way when you're turning and your Jeep shifts over the axle the dampener
will push the wheels in that direction, compromising that shift energy.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
>
> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and 31x10.5
> tires. Road handling was great.
>
> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at an
> alignment shop.
>
> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve on
> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> vibration.
>
> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> steer.
> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> handling a bit more predictable.
> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> vibration.
> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were in
> good shape.
>
> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace the
> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tracy
05-18-2005, 10:13 AM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
Figure the shackles tilted the front end down or pinion up big time so
the shims would go in the back side of the spring perch to bring the
pinion back down and get the castor angles back to something sane.
For the rear, the article was right. The steep angle of the shaft
doesn't matter, having the u-joints open and close the same does. If
one u-joint opens more on one side than the other, they will be out of
sync and jam and vibrations will set in.
Even just with the 1" longer YJ shackles in mine, I get nasty vibes if
running with no load and my steering won't self center any more. When a
load drops the body down a bit, the angles are ok so the vibes go away.
Mike
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
> At the risk of sounding even more stupid...what would I "shim" in the front?
> The axel?
>
> For the rear, I read an article which stressed the importance of the yokes
> being parallel. When looking at the output of the tcase, and the iput of the
> diff, in order for them to be parrallel, I would need to remove the shims on
> the rear axel. This would then make the driveshaft angle very steep at both
> ends.
>
> -Tracy
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca...
> > You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
> >
> > The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
> > either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
> >
> > For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
> > they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
> > finder or plumb bob to get it.
> >
> > With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
> > 'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
> >
> > I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
> > shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
> > ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
> > he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
> > borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
> >
> > Tracy Brooks wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
> >>
> >> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and
> >> 31x10.5
> >> tires. Road handling was great.
> >>
> >> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> >> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> >> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at
> >> an
> >> alignment shop.
> >>
> >> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> >> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve
> >> on
> >> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> >> vibration.
> >>
> >> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> >> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> >> steer.
> >> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> >> handling a bit more predictable.
> >> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> >> vibration.
> >> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were
> >> in
> >> good shape.
> >>
> >> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> >> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace
> >> the
> >> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> >> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Tracy
> >
the shims would go in the back side of the spring perch to bring the
pinion back down and get the castor angles back to something sane.
For the rear, the article was right. The steep angle of the shaft
doesn't matter, having the u-joints open and close the same does. If
one u-joint opens more on one side than the other, they will be out of
sync and jam and vibrations will set in.
Even just with the 1" longer YJ shackles in mine, I get nasty vibes if
running with no load and my steering won't self center any more. When a
load drops the body down a bit, the angles are ok so the vibes go away.
Mike
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
> At the risk of sounding even more stupid...what would I "shim" in the front?
> The axel?
>
> For the rear, I read an article which stressed the importance of the yokes
> being parallel. When looking at the output of the tcase, and the iput of the
> diff, in order for them to be parrallel, I would need to remove the shims on
> the rear axel. This would then make the driveshaft angle very steep at both
> ends.
>
> -Tracy
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca...
> > You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
> >
> > The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
> > either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
> >
> > For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
> > they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
> > finder or plumb bob to get it.
> >
> > With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
> > 'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
> >
> > I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
> > shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
> > ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
> > he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
> > borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
> >
> > Tracy Brooks wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
> >>
> >> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and
> >> 31x10.5
> >> tires. Road handling was great.
> >>
> >> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> >> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> >> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at
> >> an
> >> alignment shop.
> >>
> >> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> >> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve
> >> on
> >> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> >> vibration.
> >>
> >> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> >> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> >> steer.
> >> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> >> handling a bit more predictable.
> >> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> >> vibration.
> >> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were
> >> in
> >> good shape.
> >>
> >> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> >> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace
> >> the
> >> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> >> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Tracy
> >
05-18-2005, 10:13 AM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
Figure the shackles tilted the front end down or pinion up big time so
the shims would go in the back side of the spring perch to bring the
pinion back down and get the castor angles back to something sane.
For the rear, the article was right. The steep angle of the shaft
doesn't matter, having the u-joints open and close the same does. If
one u-joint opens more on one side than the other, they will be out of
sync and jam and vibrations will set in.
Even just with the 1" longer YJ shackles in mine, I get nasty vibes if
running with no load and my steering won't self center any more. When a
load drops the body down a bit, the angles are ok so the vibes go away.
Mike
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
> At the risk of sounding even more stupid...what would I "shim" in the front?
> The axel?
>
> For the rear, I read an article which stressed the importance of the yokes
> being parallel. When looking at the output of the tcase, and the iput of the
> diff, in order for them to be parrallel, I would need to remove the shims on
> the rear axel. This would then make the driveshaft angle very steep at both
> ends.
>
> -Tracy
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca...
> > You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
> >
> > The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
> > either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
> >
> > For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
> > they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
> > finder or plumb bob to get it.
> >
> > With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
> > 'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
> >
> > I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
> > shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
> > ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
> > he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
> > borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
> >
> > Tracy Brooks wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
> >>
> >> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and
> >> 31x10.5
> >> tires. Road handling was great.
> >>
> >> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> >> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> >> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at
> >> an
> >> alignment shop.
> >>
> >> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> >> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve
> >> on
> >> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> >> vibration.
> >>
> >> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> >> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> >> steer.
> >> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> >> handling a bit more predictable.
> >> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> >> vibration.
> >> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were
> >> in
> >> good shape.
> >>
> >> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> >> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace
> >> the
> >> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> >> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Tracy
> >
the shims would go in the back side of the spring perch to bring the
pinion back down and get the castor angles back to something sane.
For the rear, the article was right. The steep angle of the shaft
doesn't matter, having the u-joints open and close the same does. If
one u-joint opens more on one side than the other, they will be out of
sync and jam and vibrations will set in.
Even just with the 1" longer YJ shackles in mine, I get nasty vibes if
running with no load and my steering won't self center any more. When a
load drops the body down a bit, the angles are ok so the vibes go away.
Mike
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
> At the risk of sounding even more stupid...what would I "shim" in the front?
> The axel?
>
> For the rear, I read an article which stressed the importance of the yokes
> being parallel. When looking at the output of the tcase, and the iput of the
> diff, in order for them to be parrallel, I would need to remove the shims on
> the rear axel. This would then make the driveshaft angle very steep at both
> ends.
>
> -Tracy
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca...
> > You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
> >
> > The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
> > either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
> >
> > For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
> > they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
> > finder or plumb bob to get it.
> >
> > With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
> > 'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
> >
> > I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
> > shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
> > ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
> > he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
> > borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
> >
> > Tracy Brooks wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
> >>
> >> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and
> >> 31x10.5
> >> tires. Road handling was great.
> >>
> >> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> >> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> >> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at
> >> an
> >> alignment shop.
> >>
> >> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> >> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve
> >> on
> >> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> >> vibration.
> >>
> >> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> >> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> >> steer.
> >> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> >> handling a bit more predictable.
> >> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> >> vibration.
> >> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were
> >> in
> >> good shape.
> >>
> >> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> >> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace
> >> the
> >> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> >> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Tracy
> >
05-18-2005, 10:13 AM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CJ handling problems after 4" lift
Figure the shackles tilted the front end down or pinion up big time so
the shims would go in the back side of the spring perch to bring the
pinion back down and get the castor angles back to something sane.
For the rear, the article was right. The steep angle of the shaft
doesn't matter, having the u-joints open and close the same does. If
one u-joint opens more on one side than the other, they will be out of
sync and jam and vibrations will set in.
Even just with the 1" longer YJ shackles in mine, I get nasty vibes if
running with no load and my steering won't self center any more. When a
load drops the body down a bit, the angles are ok so the vibes go away.
Mike
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
> At the risk of sounding even more stupid...what would I "shim" in the front?
> The axel?
>
> For the rear, I read an article which stressed the importance of the yokes
> being parallel. When looking at the output of the tcase, and the iput of the
> diff, in order for them to be parrallel, I would need to remove the shims on
> the rear axel. This would then make the driveshaft angle very steep at both
> ends.
>
> -Tracy
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca...
> > You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
> >
> > The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
> > either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
> >
> > For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
> > they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
> > finder or plumb bob to get it.
> >
> > With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
> > 'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
> >
> > I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
> > shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
> > ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
> > he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
> > borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
> >
> > Tracy Brooks wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
> >>
> >> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and
> >> 31x10.5
> >> tires. Road handling was great.
> >>
> >> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> >> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> >> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at
> >> an
> >> alignment shop.
> >>
> >> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> >> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve
> >> on
> >> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> >> vibration.
> >>
> >> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> >> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> >> steer.
> >> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> >> handling a bit more predictable.
> >> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> >> vibration.
> >> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were
> >> in
> >> good shape.
> >>
> >> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> >> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace
> >> the
> >> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> >> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Tracy
> >
the shims would go in the back side of the spring perch to bring the
pinion back down and get the castor angles back to something sane.
For the rear, the article was right. The steep angle of the shaft
doesn't matter, having the u-joints open and close the same does. If
one u-joint opens more on one side than the other, they will be out of
sync and jam and vibrations will set in.
Even just with the 1" longer YJ shackles in mine, I get nasty vibes if
running with no load and my steering won't self center any more. When a
load drops the body down a bit, the angles are ok so the vibes go away.
Mike
Tracy Brooks wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
> At the risk of sounding even more stupid...what would I "shim" in the front?
> The axel?
>
> For the rear, I read an article which stressed the importance of the yokes
> being parallel. When looking at the output of the tcase, and the iput of the
> diff, in order for them to be parrallel, I would need to remove the shims on
> the rear axel. This would then make the driveshaft angle very steep at both
> ends.
>
> -Tracy
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:428B435E.BD223BC7@sympatico.ca...
> > You 'really' need the shims for the front, not the rear....
> >
> > The longer shackles have destroyed the front end alignment and you
> > either need to shim it or cut the spring perches and move them.
> >
> > For the rear, you need to get the faces of the yokes in parallel. so
> > they need to look like |=======| or /=======/. Folks use an angle
> > finder or plumb bob to get it.
> >
> > With 6" shackles, you might have fun trying to shim it right but
> > 'apparently' the lift maker 'thinks' you can do it....
> >
> > I used stock CJ springs and had them rearched for my lift. My stock
> > shackles were shot and all I could find at the time were 1" longer YJ
> > ones. The Jerk at the 'jeep' shop insisted they would work. Ya right,
> > he figured on making big bucks trying to 'fix' it later. This has me at
> > borderline for vibes and front steering geometry.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's.
> >
> > Tracy Brooks wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Sorry for the long post, but I've hit my mechanical ceiling......
> >>
> >> Before: stock '85 CJ7, AMC-20, Dana 30, power steering, 7" rims, and
> >> 31x10.5
> >> tires. Road handling was great.
> >>
> >> "Upgrade": Installed 4" BDS lift which included: springs, shocks, 6"
> >> shackles, 1" tcase drop kit, drop pitman arm, and 4 degree shims for rear
> >> axel. Installed 33x12.5 tires on 10" wheels and had front end aligned at
> >> an
> >> alignment shop.
> >>
> >> After: Road handling is a white-knuckle experience. It requires complete
> >> concentration to keep the beast between the lines. Going around a curve
> >> on
> >> bumpy pavement is downright scary. Also I get quite a bit of driveline
> >> vibration.
> >>
> >> Attempts to improve/more upgrades:
> >> New steering stabilizer (single shock) - very small improvement of bump
> >> steer.
> >> Installed sway bar disconnects so I could use sway bar on road - made
> >> handling a bit more predictable.
> >> Replaced 4 degree shims with 6 degree shims - no improvement in driveline
> >> vibration.
> >> Replaced rear axel U-Joints - no improvement in vibration, old ones were
> >> in
> >> good shape.
> >>
> >> Other than going back to stock, any ideas how I can make it enjoyable to
> >> drive on the road again? Couple of dumb related questions...If I replace
> >> the
> >> 6" shackles with 3" or 4" stock ones, will it give the springs enough
> >> travel? Would a double-shock steering stabilizer make a difference?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Tracy
> >