Mike Romain

I don't think you will need anything different.

The proportioning valve goes by PSI not volume and the wheel cylinders
don't move any more because of a physically bigger drum, the movement is
in the gap or adjustment.

A leak out the cover seal can/does run down onto the firewall on the
engine side. Blown seals leak down the firewall on the inside and soak
the carpet.

Having that rubber gasket get rust flakes and leak is pretty common. My
CJ7 was like that and I got air in even on it's first off road run after
the frame up rebuild. I didn't clean that part and got dinged for it.
Had to bleed the whole system way out in the bush....

Mike

aGraham wrote:
>
> There has been fluid leaking around the firewall since I bought it, that
> is what make me think the seal finally died.
>
> What do you think about the difference when I change the rear axle to a
> Dana 44? Will I need a different MC?
>
> In article <40A10968.C6890930@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > My guess is the rim and rubber seal on the fluid container are dirty
> > letting it leak out the top.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > aGraham wrote:
> > >
> > > Anybody????
> > >
> > > Also more info....
> > > In the near future I will be swapping in a rear Dana44 from a 74 CJ5,
> > > which has 11" rear drums instead of my current 10.75" drums on the AMC
> > > 20. Should I go ahead and get the MC from a 74? But the 74 was
> > > designed for fron drums where I will be keeping my front disks.
> > >
> > > In article
> > > <aarongraham-7CFBC3.11223810052004@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
> > > aGraham <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote:
> > >
> > > > During wheeling Saturday I lost my brakes in my '79 CJ7, haven't had
> > > > much time to diagnose it, due to yesterday being Mothers Day. My wife
> > > > was mad I even had to borrow a trailer and go back and get the Jeep
> > > > Sunday morning.
> > > >
> > > > I believe it may be leaking fluid from the Mastercylinder as I am losing
> > > > fluid from both resevoirs. I could not diagnose it Saturday as it was
> > > > to covered in mud to see anything and I was busy helping our club with
> > > > the rest of our event. Picts can be seen here:
> > > > http://www.mudnuts.org/gallery/dalton04 including a rolled UniMog.
> > > >
> > > > oh yeah, back to my problem....
> > > >
> > > > Some of you may remember me posting last week about my brake issues due
> > > > to a sticking e-brake cable, I wonder if driving with the rear brakes
> > > > locked then out of adjustment put to much stress on my resevoir. I
> > > > looked online at NAPA and see many different choices for Master
> > > > Cylinders for manual brakes. What are the differences besides
> > > > new/rebuilt? Is there a big difference between a new and rebuilt unit?
> > >
> > > --
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > /| ,[_____],
> > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>
> --
> o_o_o_o
> /| ,[_____],
> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

aGraham

Well after four trips to town, and almost 8 hours my CJ now has the best
brakes since I have owned it. 3 separate trips for lines then a trip to
his shop for his flaring tool to change the fittings on 2 of the lines.
My buddy & I ended up having to replace 4 out of 5 of the brake lines.
I think mud or a stick must have gotten lodged in there and tweaked the
proportioning valve, almost pulling it off of the frame, which caused
the 25 year old lines to crack. It looks like the one brake line we did
not have to replace had been replaced in the past.

Also we found that the brake lines are possibly hooked up wrong. My
buddy said that usually the front brakes are controlled by the rear
resevoir of the Master Cylinder and vice versa. My Jeep is set up with
the front resevoir controlling the front brakes. Is this right or
wrong? The brakes seem to work great so we left it the way it was.

We also found a quarter sized hole in the front section of the eqhaust
pipe. After replacing that and the pipe to manifold donut gasket my
Jeep is so quiet I had a hard time driving it home. It is hard to drive
a loud vehicle for 2 years and then try to shift it when you can't hear
the motor!!


In article <40A57819.69F8923B@sympatico.ca>,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> I don't think you will need anything different.
>
> The proportioning valve goes by PSI not volume and the wheel cylinders
> don't move any more because of a physically bigger drum, the movement is
> in the gap or adjustment.
>
> A leak out the cover seal can/does run down onto the firewall on the
> engine side. Blown seals leak down the firewall on the inside and soak
> the carpet.
>
> Having that rubber gasket get rust flakes and leak is pretty common. My
> CJ7 was like that and I got air in even on it's first off road run after
> the frame up rebuild. I didn't clean that part and got dinged for it.
> Had to bleed the whole system way out in the bush....
>
> Mike
>
> aGraham wrote:
> >
> > There has been fluid leaking around the firewall since I bought it, that
> > is what make me think the seal finally died.
> >
> > What do you think about the difference when I change the rear axle to a
> > Dana 44? Will I need a different MC?
> >
> > In article <40A10968.C6890930@sympatico.ca>,
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > My guess is the rim and rubber seal on the fluid container are dirty
> > > letting it leak out the top.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > aGraham wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anybody????
> > > >
> > > > Also more info....
> > > > In the near future I will be swapping in a rear Dana44 from a 74 CJ5,
> > > > which has 11" rear drums instead of my current 10.75" drums on the AMC
> > > > 20. Should I go ahead and get the MC from a 74? But the 74 was
> > > > designed for fron drums where I will be keeping my front disks.
> > > >
> > > > In article
> > > > <aarongraham-7CFBC3.11223810052004@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
> > > > aGraham <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > During wheeling Saturday I lost my brakes in my '79 CJ7, haven't had
> > > > > much time to diagnose it, due to yesterday being Mothers Day. My
> > > > > wife
> > > > > was mad I even had to borrow a trailer and go back and get the Jeep
> > > > > Sunday morning.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe it may be leaking fluid from the Mastercylinder as I am
> > > > > losing
> > > > > fluid from both resevoirs. I could not diagnose it Saturday as it
> > > > > was
> > > > > to covered in mud to see anything and I was busy helping our club
> > > > > with
> > > > > the rest of our event. Picts can be seen here:
> > > > > http://www.mudnuts.org/gallery/dalton04 including a rolled UniMog.
> > > > >
> > > > > oh yeah, back to my problem....
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of you may remember me posting last week about my brake issues
> > > > > due
> > > > > to a sticking e-brake cable, I wonder if driving with the rear brakes
> > > > > locked then out of adjustment put to much stress on my resevoir. I
> > > > > looked online at NAPA and see many different choices for Master
> > > > > Cylinders for manual brakes. What are the differences besides
> > > > > new/rebuilt? Is there a big difference between a new and rebuilt
> > > > > unit?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> >
> > --
> > o_o_o_o
> > /| ,[_____],
> > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

--
o_o_o_o
/| ,[_____],
|ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

aGraham

Well after four trips to town, and almost 8 hours my CJ now has the best
brakes since I have owned it. 3 separate trips for lines then a trip to
his shop for his flaring tool to change the fittings on 2 of the lines.
My buddy & I ended up having to replace 4 out of 5 of the brake lines.
I think mud or a stick must have gotten lodged in there and tweaked the
proportioning valve, almost pulling it off of the frame, which caused
the 25 year old lines to crack. It looks like the one brake line we did
not have to replace had been replaced in the past.

Also we found that the brake lines are possibly hooked up wrong. My
buddy said that usually the front brakes are controlled by the rear
resevoir of the Master Cylinder and vice versa. My Jeep is set up with
the front resevoir controlling the front brakes. Is this right or
wrong? The brakes seem to work great so we left it the way it was.

We also found a quarter sized hole in the front section of the eqhaust
pipe. After replacing that and the pipe to manifold donut gasket my
Jeep is so quiet I had a hard time driving it home. It is hard to drive
a loud vehicle for 2 years and then try to shift it when you can't hear
the motor!!


In article <40A57819.69F8923B@sympatico.ca>,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> I don't think you will need anything different.
>
> The proportioning valve goes by PSI not volume and the wheel cylinders
> don't move any more because of a physically bigger drum, the movement is
> in the gap or adjustment.
>
> A leak out the cover seal can/does run down onto the firewall on the
> engine side. Blown seals leak down the firewall on the inside and soak
> the carpet.
>
> Having that rubber gasket get rust flakes and leak is pretty common. My
> CJ7 was like that and I got air in even on it's first off road run after
> the frame up rebuild. I didn't clean that part and got dinged for it.
> Had to bleed the whole system way out in the bush....
>
> Mike
>
> aGraham wrote:
> >
> > There has been fluid leaking around the firewall since I bought it, that
> > is what make me think the seal finally died.
> >
> > What do you think about the difference when I change the rear axle to a
> > Dana 44? Will I need a different MC?
> >
> > In article <40A10968.C6890930@sympatico.ca>,
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > My guess is the rim and rubber seal on the fluid container are dirty
> > > letting it leak out the top.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > aGraham wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anybody????
> > > >
> > > > Also more info....
> > > > In the near future I will be swapping in a rear Dana44 from a 74 CJ5,
> > > > which has 11" rear drums instead of my current 10.75" drums on the AMC
> > > > 20. Should I go ahead and get the MC from a 74? But the 74 was
> > > > designed for fron drums where I will be keeping my front disks.
> > > >
> > > > In article
> > > > <aarongraham-7CFBC3.11223810052004@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
> > > > aGraham <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > During wheeling Saturday I lost my brakes in my '79 CJ7, haven't had
> > > > > much time to diagnose it, due to yesterday being Mothers Day. My
> > > > > wife
> > > > > was mad I even had to borrow a trailer and go back and get the Jeep
> > > > > Sunday morning.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe it may be leaking fluid from the Mastercylinder as I am
> > > > > losing
> > > > > fluid from both resevoirs. I could not diagnose it Saturday as it
> > > > > was
> > > > > to covered in mud to see anything and I was busy helping our club
> > > > > with
> > > > > the rest of our event. Picts can be seen here:
> > > > > http://www.mudnuts.org/gallery/dalton04 including a rolled UniMog.
> > > > >
> > > > > oh yeah, back to my problem....
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of you may remember me posting last week about my brake issues
> > > > > due
> > > > > to a sticking e-brake cable, I wonder if driving with the rear brakes
> > > > > locked then out of adjustment put to much stress on my resevoir. I
> > > > > looked online at NAPA and see many different choices for Master
> > > > > Cylinders for manual brakes. What are the differences besides
> > > > > new/rebuilt? Is there a big difference between a new and rebuilt
> > > > > unit?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> >
> > --
> > o_o_o_o
> > /| ,[_____],
> > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

--
o_o_o_o
/| ,[_____],
|ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

aGraham

Well after four trips to town, and almost 8 hours my CJ now has the best
brakes since I have owned it. 3 separate trips for lines then a trip to
his shop for his flaring tool to change the fittings on 2 of the lines.
My buddy & I ended up having to replace 4 out of 5 of the brake lines.
I think mud or a stick must have gotten lodged in there and tweaked the
proportioning valve, almost pulling it off of the frame, which caused
the 25 year old lines to crack. It looks like the one brake line we did
not have to replace had been replaced in the past.

Also we found that the brake lines are possibly hooked up wrong. My
buddy said that usually the front brakes are controlled by the rear
resevoir of the Master Cylinder and vice versa. My Jeep is set up with
the front resevoir controlling the front brakes. Is this right or
wrong? The brakes seem to work great so we left it the way it was.

We also found a quarter sized hole in the front section of the eqhaust
pipe. After replacing that and the pipe to manifold donut gasket my
Jeep is so quiet I had a hard time driving it home. It is hard to drive
a loud vehicle for 2 years and then try to shift it when you can't hear
the motor!!


In article <40A57819.69F8923B@sympatico.ca>,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> I don't think you will need anything different.
>
> The proportioning valve goes by PSI not volume and the wheel cylinders
> don't move any more because of a physically bigger drum, the movement is
> in the gap or adjustment.
>
> A leak out the cover seal can/does run down onto the firewall on the
> engine side. Blown seals leak down the firewall on the inside and soak
> the carpet.
>
> Having that rubber gasket get rust flakes and leak is pretty common. My
> CJ7 was like that and I got air in even on it's first off road run after
> the frame up rebuild. I didn't clean that part and got dinged for it.
> Had to bleed the whole system way out in the bush....
>
> Mike
>
> aGraham wrote:
> >
> > There has been fluid leaking around the firewall since I bought it, that
> > is what make me think the seal finally died.
> >
> > What do you think about the difference when I change the rear axle to a
> > Dana 44? Will I need a different MC?
> >
> > In article <40A10968.C6890930@sympatico.ca>,
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > My guess is the rim and rubber seal on the fluid container are dirty
> > > letting it leak out the top.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > aGraham wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anybody????
> > > >
> > > > Also more info....
> > > > In the near future I will be swapping in a rear Dana44 from a 74 CJ5,
> > > > which has 11" rear drums instead of my current 10.75" drums on the AMC
> > > > 20. Should I go ahead and get the MC from a 74? But the 74 was
> > > > designed for fron drums where I will be keeping my front disks.
> > > >
> > > > In article
> > > > <aarongraham-7CFBC3.11223810052004@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
> > > > aGraham <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > During wheeling Saturday I lost my brakes in my '79 CJ7, haven't had
> > > > > much time to diagnose it, due to yesterday being Mothers Day. My
> > > > > wife
> > > > > was mad I even had to borrow a trailer and go back and get the Jeep
> > > > > Sunday morning.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe it may be leaking fluid from the Mastercylinder as I am
> > > > > losing
> > > > > fluid from both resevoirs. I could not diagnose it Saturday as it
> > > > > was
> > > > > to covered in mud to see anything and I was busy helping our club
> > > > > with
> > > > > the rest of our event. Picts can be seen here:
> > > > > http://www.mudnuts.org/gallery/dalton04 including a rolled UniMog.
> > > > >
> > > > > oh yeah, back to my problem....
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of you may remember me posting last week about my brake issues
> > > > > due
> > > > > to a sticking e-brake cable, I wonder if driving with the rear brakes
> > > > > locked then out of adjustment put to much stress on my resevoir. I
> > > > > looked online at NAPA and see many different choices for Master
> > > > > Cylinders for manual brakes. What are the differences besides
> > > > > new/rebuilt? Is there a big difference between a new and rebuilt
> > > > > unit?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> >
> > --
> > o_o_o_o
> > /| ,[_____],
> > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

--
o_o_o_o
/| ,[_____],
|ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

aGraham

Well after four trips to town, and almost 8 hours my CJ now has the best
brakes since I have owned it. 3 separate trips for lines then a trip to
his shop for his flaring tool to change the fittings on 2 of the lines.
My buddy & I ended up having to replace 4 out of 5 of the brake lines.
I think mud or a stick must have gotten lodged in there and tweaked the
proportioning valve, almost pulling it off of the frame, which caused
the 25 year old lines to crack. It looks like the one brake line we did
not have to replace had been replaced in the past.

Also we found that the brake lines are possibly hooked up wrong. My
buddy said that usually the front brakes are controlled by the rear
resevoir of the Master Cylinder and vice versa. My Jeep is set up with
the front resevoir controlling the front brakes. Is this right or
wrong? The brakes seem to work great so we left it the way it was.

We also found a quarter sized hole in the front section of the eqhaust
pipe. After replacing that and the pipe to manifold donut gasket my
Jeep is so quiet I had a hard time driving it home. It is hard to drive
a loud vehicle for 2 years and then try to shift it when you can't hear
the motor!!


In article <40A57819.69F8923B@sympatico.ca>,
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> I don't think you will need anything different.
>
> The proportioning valve goes by PSI not volume and the wheel cylinders
> don't move any more because of a physically bigger drum, the movement is
> in the gap or adjustment.
>
> A leak out the cover seal can/does run down onto the firewall on the
> engine side. Blown seals leak down the firewall on the inside and soak
> the carpet.
>
> Having that rubber gasket get rust flakes and leak is pretty common. My
> CJ7 was like that and I got air in even on it's first off road run after
> the frame up rebuild. I didn't clean that part and got dinged for it.
> Had to bleed the whole system way out in the bush....
>
> Mike
>
> aGraham wrote:
> >
> > There has been fluid leaking around the firewall since I bought it, that
> > is what make me think the seal finally died.
> >
> > What do you think about the difference when I change the rear axle to a
> > Dana 44? Will I need a different MC?
> >
> > In article <40A10968.C6890930@sympatico.ca>,
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > My guess is the rim and rubber seal on the fluid container are dirty
> > > letting it leak out the top.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > aGraham wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anybody????
> > > >
> > > > Also more info....
> > > > In the near future I will be swapping in a rear Dana44 from a 74 CJ5,
> > > > which has 11" rear drums instead of my current 10.75" drums on the AMC
> > > > 20. Should I go ahead and get the MC from a 74? But the 74 was
> > > > designed for fron drums where I will be keeping my front disks.
> > > >
> > > > In article
> > > > <aarongraham-7CFBC3.11223810052004@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
> > > > aGraham <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > During wheeling Saturday I lost my brakes in my '79 CJ7, haven't had
> > > > > much time to diagnose it, due to yesterday being Mothers Day. My
> > > > > wife
> > > > > was mad I even had to borrow a trailer and go back and get the Jeep
> > > > > Sunday morning.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe it may be leaking fluid from the Mastercylinder as I am
> > > > > losing
> > > > > fluid from both resevoirs. I could not diagnose it Saturday as it
> > > > > was
> > > > > to covered in mud to see anything and I was busy helping our club
> > > > > with
> > > > > the rest of our event. Picts can be seen here:
> > > > > http://www.mudnuts.org/gallery/dalton04 including a rolled UniMog.
> > > > >
> > > > > oh yeah, back to my problem....
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of you may remember me posting last week about my brake issues
> > > > > due
> > > > > to a sticking e-brake cable, I wonder if driving with the rear brakes
> > > > > locked then out of adjustment put to much stress on my resevoir. I
> > > > > looked online at NAPA and see many different choices for Master
> > > > > Cylinders for manual brakes. What are the differences besides
> > > > > new/rebuilt? Is there a big difference between a new and rebuilt
> > > > > unit?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> >
> > --
> > o_o_o_o
> > /| ,[_____],
> > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

--
o_o_o_o
/| ,[_____],
|ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

Lee Ayrton

I found a sketch I drew of the proportioning valve hookups when I pulled
my `79 CJ-5 apart, this may or may not help you. Looking at the valve
body as though your head was where the bell housing is and the valve is
mounted to the inner left frame rail, the connection that exits to the
rear goes to the rear brakes. Then working clockwise, the next connection
(top side, to the rear) goes to the front connection on the master
cylinder. Next is the warning light connection, then the connection to
the rear port on the master. Exiting diagonally to the upper front is the
right front brake line, then on the lower right is the left front brake
line.

On factory-made lines the flair nuts connecting the valve to the master
are different sizes to prevent bass-ackwards hookups.

By the way, it might not have been a stick that yoinked your valve off.
You should check that part of the frame for rust.


On Sun, 16 May 2004, aGraham wrote:

> Well after four trips to town, and almost 8 hours my CJ now has the best
> brakes since I have owned it. 3 separate trips for lines then a trip to
> his shop for his flaring tool to change the fittings on 2 of the lines.
> My buddy & I ended up having to replace 4 out of 5 of the brake lines.
> I think mud or a stick must have gotten lodged in there and tweaked the
> proportioning valve, almost pulling it off of the frame, which caused
> the 25 year old lines to crack. It looks like the one brake line we did
> not have to replace had been replaced in the past.
>
> Also we found that the brake lines are possibly hooked up wrong. My
> buddy said that usually the front brakes are controlled by the rear
> resevoir of the Master Cylinder and vice versa. My Jeep is set up with
> the front resevoir controlling the front brakes. Is this right or
> wrong? The brakes seem to work great so we left it the way it was.
>
> We also found a quarter sized hole in the front section of the eqhaust
> pipe. After replacing that and the pipe to manifold donut gasket my
> Jeep is so quiet I had a hard time driving it home. It is hard to drive
> a loud vehicle for 2 years and then try to shift it when you can't hear
> the motor!!
>
>
> In article <40A57819.69F8923B@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > I don't think you will need anything different.
> >
> > The proportioning valve goes by PSI not volume and the wheel cylinders
> > don't move any more because of a physically bigger drum, the movement is
> > in the gap or adjustment.
> >
> > A leak out the cover seal can/does run down onto the firewall on the
> > engine side. Blown seals leak down the firewall on the inside and soak
> > the carpet.
> >
> > Having that rubber gasket get rust flakes and leak is pretty common. My
> > CJ7 was like that and I got air in even on it's first off road run after
> > the frame up rebuild. I didn't clean that part and got dinged for it.
> > Had to bleed the whole system way out in the bush....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > aGraham wrote:
> > >
> > > There has been fluid leaking around the firewall since I bought it, that
> > > is what make me think the seal finally died.
> > >
> > > What do you think about the difference when I change the rear axle toa
> > > Dana 44? Will I need a different MC?
> > >
> > > In article <40A10968.C6890930@sympatico.ca>,
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My guess is the rim and rubber seal on the fluid container are dirty
> > > > letting it leak out the top.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > aGraham wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anybody????
> > > > >
> > > > > Also more info....
> > > > > In the near future I will be swapping in a rear Dana44 from a 74 CJ5,
> > > > > which has 11" rear drums instead of my current 10.75" drums on the AMC
> > > > > 20. Should I go ahead and get the MC from a 74? But the 74 was
> > > > > designed for fron drums where I will be keeping my front disks.
> > > > >
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <aarongraham-7CFBC3.11223810052004@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
> > > > > aGraham <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > During wheeling Saturday I lost my brakes in my '79 CJ7, haven't had
> > > > > > much time to diagnose it, due to yesterday being Mothers Day. My
> > > > > > wife
> > > > > > was mad I even had to borrow a trailer and go back and get the Jeep
> > > > > > Sunday morning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe it may be leaking fluid from the Mastercylinder as I am
> > > > > > losing
> > > > > > fluid from both resevoirs. I could not diagnose it Saturday asit
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > to covered in mud to see anything and I was busy helping our club
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > the rest of our event. Picts can be seen here:
> > > > > > http://www.mudnuts.org/gallery/dalton04 including a rolled UniMog.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > oh yeah, back to my problem....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some of you may remember me posting last week about my brake issues
> > > > > > due
> > > > > > to a sticking e-brake cable, I wonder if driving with the rear brakes
> > > > > > locked then out of adjustment put to much stress on my resevoir. I
> > > > > > looked online at NAPA and see many different choices for Master
> > > > > > Cylinders for manual brakes. What are the differences besides
> > > > > > new/rebuilt? Is there a big difference between a new and rebuilt
> > > > > > unit?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > >
> > > --
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > /| ,[_____],
> > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>
> --
> o_o_o_o
> /| ,[_____],
> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>

Lee Ayrton

I found a sketch I drew of the proportioning valve hookups when I pulled
my `79 CJ-5 apart, this may or may not help you. Looking at the valve
body as though your head was where the bell housing is and the valve is
mounted to the inner left frame rail, the connection that exits to the
rear goes to the rear brakes. Then working clockwise, the next connection
(top side, to the rear) goes to the front connection on the master
cylinder. Next is the warning light connection, then the connection to
the rear port on the master. Exiting diagonally to the upper front is the
right front brake line, then on the lower right is the left front brake
line.

On factory-made lines the flair nuts connecting the valve to the master
are different sizes to prevent bass-ackwards hookups.

By the way, it might not have been a stick that yoinked your valve off.
You should check that part of the frame for rust.


On Sun, 16 May 2004, aGraham wrote:

> Well after four trips to town, and almost 8 hours my CJ now has the best
> brakes since I have owned it. 3 separate trips for lines then a trip to
> his shop for his flaring tool to change the fittings on 2 of the lines.
> My buddy & I ended up having to replace 4 out of 5 of the brake lines.
> I think mud or a stick must have gotten lodged in there and tweaked the
> proportioning valve, almost pulling it off of the frame, which caused
> the 25 year old lines to crack. It looks like the one brake line we did
> not have to replace had been replaced in the past.
>
> Also we found that the brake lines are possibly hooked up wrong. My
> buddy said that usually the front brakes are controlled by the rear
> resevoir of the Master Cylinder and vice versa. My Jeep is set up with
> the front resevoir controlling the front brakes. Is this right or
> wrong? The brakes seem to work great so we left it the way it was.
>
> We also found a quarter sized hole in the front section of the eqhaust
> pipe. After replacing that and the pipe to manifold donut gasket my
> Jeep is so quiet I had a hard time driving it home. It is hard to drive
> a loud vehicle for 2 years and then try to shift it when you can't hear
> the motor!!
>
>
> In article <40A57819.69F8923B@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > I don't think you will need anything different.
> >
> > The proportioning valve goes by PSI not volume and the wheel cylinders
> > don't move any more because of a physically bigger drum, the movement is
> > in the gap or adjustment.
> >
> > A leak out the cover seal can/does run down onto the firewall on the
> > engine side. Blown seals leak down the firewall on the inside and soak
> > the carpet.
> >
> > Having that rubber gasket get rust flakes and leak is pretty common. My
> > CJ7 was like that and I got air in even on it's first off road run after
> > the frame up rebuild. I didn't clean that part and got dinged for it.
> > Had to bleed the whole system way out in the bush....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > aGraham wrote:
> > >
> > > There has been fluid leaking around the firewall since I bought it, that
> > > is what make me think the seal finally died.
> > >
> > > What do you think about the difference when I change the rear axle toa
> > > Dana 44? Will I need a different MC?
> > >
> > > In article <40A10968.C6890930@sympatico.ca>,
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My guess is the rim and rubber seal on the fluid container are dirty
> > > > letting it leak out the top.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > aGraham wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anybody????
> > > > >
> > > > > Also more info....
> > > > > In the near future I will be swapping in a rear Dana44 from a 74 CJ5,
> > > > > which has 11" rear drums instead of my current 10.75" drums on the AMC
> > > > > 20. Should I go ahead and get the MC from a 74? But the 74 was
> > > > > designed for fron drums where I will be keeping my front disks.
> > > > >
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <aarongraham-7CFBC3.11223810052004@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
> > > > > aGraham <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > During wheeling Saturday I lost my brakes in my '79 CJ7, haven't had
> > > > > > much time to diagnose it, due to yesterday being Mothers Day. My
> > > > > > wife
> > > > > > was mad I even had to borrow a trailer and go back and get the Jeep
> > > > > > Sunday morning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe it may be leaking fluid from the Mastercylinder as I am
> > > > > > losing
> > > > > > fluid from both resevoirs. I could not diagnose it Saturday asit
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > to covered in mud to see anything and I was busy helping our club
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > the rest of our event. Picts can be seen here:
> > > > > > http://www.mudnuts.org/gallery/dalton04 including a rolled UniMog.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > oh yeah, back to my problem....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some of you may remember me posting last week about my brake issues
> > > > > > due
> > > > > > to a sticking e-brake cable, I wonder if driving with the rear brakes
> > > > > > locked then out of adjustment put to much stress on my resevoir. I
> > > > > > looked online at NAPA and see many different choices for Master
> > > > > > Cylinders for manual brakes. What are the differences besides
> > > > > > new/rebuilt? Is there a big difference between a new and rebuilt
> > > > > > unit?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > >
> > > --
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > /| ,[_____],
> > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>
> --
> o_o_o_o
> /| ,[_____],
> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>

Lee Ayrton

I found a sketch I drew of the proportioning valve hookups when I pulled
my `79 CJ-5 apart, this may or may not help you. Looking at the valve
body as though your head was where the bell housing is and the valve is
mounted to the inner left frame rail, the connection that exits to the
rear goes to the rear brakes. Then working clockwise, the next connection
(top side, to the rear) goes to the front connection on the master
cylinder. Next is the warning light connection, then the connection to
the rear port on the master. Exiting diagonally to the upper front is the
right front brake line, then on the lower right is the left front brake
line.

On factory-made lines the flair nuts connecting the valve to the master
are different sizes to prevent bass-ackwards hookups.

By the way, it might not have been a stick that yoinked your valve off.
You should check that part of the frame for rust.


On Sun, 16 May 2004, aGraham wrote:

> Well after four trips to town, and almost 8 hours my CJ now has the best
> brakes since I have owned it. 3 separate trips for lines then a trip to
> his shop for his flaring tool to change the fittings on 2 of the lines.
> My buddy & I ended up having to replace 4 out of 5 of the brake lines.
> I think mud or a stick must have gotten lodged in there and tweaked the
> proportioning valve, almost pulling it off of the frame, which caused
> the 25 year old lines to crack. It looks like the one brake line we did
> not have to replace had been replaced in the past.
>
> Also we found that the brake lines are possibly hooked up wrong. My
> buddy said that usually the front brakes are controlled by the rear
> resevoir of the Master Cylinder and vice versa. My Jeep is set up with
> the front resevoir controlling the front brakes. Is this right or
> wrong? The brakes seem to work great so we left it the way it was.
>
> We also found a quarter sized hole in the front section of the eqhaust
> pipe. After replacing that and the pipe to manifold donut gasket my
> Jeep is so quiet I had a hard time driving it home. It is hard to drive
> a loud vehicle for 2 years and then try to shift it when you can't hear
> the motor!!
>
>
> In article <40A57819.69F8923B@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > I don't think you will need anything different.
> >
> > The proportioning valve goes by PSI not volume and the wheel cylinders
> > don't move any more because of a physically bigger drum, the movement is
> > in the gap or adjustment.
> >
> > A leak out the cover seal can/does run down onto the firewall on the
> > engine side. Blown seals leak down the firewall on the inside and soak
> > the carpet.
> >
> > Having that rubber gasket get rust flakes and leak is pretty common. My
> > CJ7 was like that and I got air in even on it's first off road run after
> > the frame up rebuild. I didn't clean that part and got dinged for it.
> > Had to bleed the whole system way out in the bush....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > aGraham wrote:
> > >
> > > There has been fluid leaking around the firewall since I bought it, that
> > > is what make me think the seal finally died.
> > >
> > > What do you think about the difference when I change the rear axle toa
> > > Dana 44? Will I need a different MC?
> > >
> > > In article <40A10968.C6890930@sympatico.ca>,
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My guess is the rim and rubber seal on the fluid container are dirty
> > > > letting it leak out the top.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > aGraham wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anybody????
> > > > >
> > > > > Also more info....
> > > > > In the near future I will be swapping in a rear Dana44 from a 74 CJ5,
> > > > > which has 11" rear drums instead of my current 10.75" drums on the AMC
> > > > > 20. Should I go ahead and get the MC from a 74? But the 74 was
> > > > > designed for fron drums where I will be keeping my front disks.
> > > > >
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <aarongraham-7CFBC3.11223810052004@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
> > > > > aGraham <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > During wheeling Saturday I lost my brakes in my '79 CJ7, haven't had
> > > > > > much time to diagnose it, due to yesterday being Mothers Day. My
> > > > > > wife
> > > > > > was mad I even had to borrow a trailer and go back and get the Jeep
> > > > > > Sunday morning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe it may be leaking fluid from the Mastercylinder as I am
> > > > > > losing
> > > > > > fluid from both resevoirs. I could not diagnose it Saturday asit
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > to covered in mud to see anything and I was busy helping our club
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > the rest of our event. Picts can be seen here:
> > > > > > http://www.mudnuts.org/gallery/dalton04 including a rolled UniMog.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > oh yeah, back to my problem....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some of you may remember me posting last week about my brake issues
> > > > > > due
> > > > > > to a sticking e-brake cable, I wonder if driving with the rear brakes
> > > > > > locked then out of adjustment put to much stress on my resevoir. I
> > > > > > looked online at NAPA and see many different choices for Master
> > > > > > Cylinders for manual brakes. What are the differences besides
> > > > > > new/rebuilt? Is there a big difference between a new and rebuilt
> > > > > > unit?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > >
> > > --
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > /| ,[_____],
> > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>
> --
> o_o_o_o
> /| ,[_____],
> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>

Lee Ayrton

I found a sketch I drew of the proportioning valve hookups when I pulled
my `79 CJ-5 apart, this may or may not help you. Looking at the valve
body as though your head was where the bell housing is and the valve is
mounted to the inner left frame rail, the connection that exits to the
rear goes to the rear brakes. Then working clockwise, the next connection
(top side, to the rear) goes to the front connection on the master
cylinder. Next is the warning light connection, then the connection to
the rear port on the master. Exiting diagonally to the upper front is the
right front brake line, then on the lower right is the left front brake
line.

On factory-made lines the flair nuts connecting the valve to the master
are different sizes to prevent bass-ackwards hookups.

By the way, it might not have been a stick that yoinked your valve off.
You should check that part of the frame for rust.


On Sun, 16 May 2004, aGraham wrote:

> Well after four trips to town, and almost 8 hours my CJ now has the best
> brakes since I have owned it. 3 separate trips for lines then a trip to
> his shop for his flaring tool to change the fittings on 2 of the lines.
> My buddy & I ended up having to replace 4 out of 5 of the brake lines.
> I think mud or a stick must have gotten lodged in there and tweaked the
> proportioning valve, almost pulling it off of the frame, which caused
> the 25 year old lines to crack. It looks like the one brake line we did
> not have to replace had been replaced in the past.
>
> Also we found that the brake lines are possibly hooked up wrong. My
> buddy said that usually the front brakes are controlled by the rear
> resevoir of the Master Cylinder and vice versa. My Jeep is set up with
> the front resevoir controlling the front brakes. Is this right or
> wrong? The brakes seem to work great so we left it the way it was.
>
> We also found a quarter sized hole in the front section of the eqhaust
> pipe. After replacing that and the pipe to manifold donut gasket my
> Jeep is so quiet I had a hard time driving it home. It is hard to drive
> a loud vehicle for 2 years and then try to shift it when you can't hear
> the motor!!
>
>
> In article <40A57819.69F8923B@sympatico.ca>,
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > I don't think you will need anything different.
> >
> > The proportioning valve goes by PSI not volume and the wheel cylinders
> > don't move any more because of a physically bigger drum, the movement is
> > in the gap or adjustment.
> >
> > A leak out the cover seal can/does run down onto the firewall on the
> > engine side. Blown seals leak down the firewall on the inside and soak
> > the carpet.
> >
> > Having that rubber gasket get rust flakes and leak is pretty common. My
> > CJ7 was like that and I got air in even on it's first off road run after
> > the frame up rebuild. I didn't clean that part and got dinged for it.
> > Had to bleed the whole system way out in the bush....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > aGraham wrote:
> > >
> > > There has been fluid leaking around the firewall since I bought it, that
> > > is what make me think the seal finally died.
> > >
> > > What do you think about the difference when I change the rear axle toa
> > > Dana 44? Will I need a different MC?
> > >
> > > In article <40A10968.C6890930@sympatico.ca>,
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My guess is the rim and rubber seal on the fluid container are dirty
> > > > letting it leak out the top.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > aGraham wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anybody????
> > > > >
> > > > > Also more info....
> > > > > In the near future I will be swapping in a rear Dana44 from a 74 CJ5,
> > > > > which has 11" rear drums instead of my current 10.75" drums on the AMC
> > > > > 20. Should I go ahead and get the MC from a 74? But the 74 was
> > > > > designed for fron drums where I will be keeping my front disks.
> > > > >
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <aarongraham-7CFBC3.11223810052004@corp-radius.supernews.com>,
> > > > > aGraham <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > During wheeling Saturday I lost my brakes in my '79 CJ7, haven't had
> > > > > > much time to diagnose it, due to yesterday being Mothers Day. My
> > > > > > wife
> > > > > > was mad I even had to borrow a trailer and go back and get the Jeep
> > > > > > Sunday morning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe it may be leaking fluid from the Mastercylinder as I am
> > > > > > losing
> > > > > > fluid from both resevoirs. I could not diagnose it Saturday asit
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > to covered in mud to see anything and I was busy helping our club
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > the rest of our event. Picts can be seen here:
> > > > > > http://www.mudnuts.org/gallery/dalton04 including a rolled UniMog.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > oh yeah, back to my problem....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some of you may remember me posting last week about my brake issues
> > > > > > due
> > > > > > to a sticking e-brake cable, I wonder if driving with the rear brakes
> > > > > > locked then out of adjustment put to much stress on my resevoir. I
> > > > > > looked online at NAPA and see many different choices for Master
> > > > > > Cylinders for manual brakes. What are the differences besides
> > > > > > new/rebuilt? Is there a big difference between a new and rebuilt
> > > > > > unit?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > /| ,[_____],
> > > > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > >
> > > --
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > /| ,[_____],
> > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>
> --
> o_o_o_o
> /| ,[_____],
> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>