Chrome intake with K&N
08-13-2006, 07:04 PM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Turbo City's Rock-It! air tube gets it from right on top of the valve cover.
In city traffic it can get hot up there, but it must be cool enough going
down the highway. I am getting 25 mpg in my four cylinder 1995 Wrangler.
One of the things we learned in science and engineering courses was not to
put too much weight in unverified theoretical predictions.
Earle
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:64c71$44df67b4$48311eaf$23103@FUSE.NET...
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> > their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is
> > also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> > supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> > functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> > pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising
> > performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors
to
> > a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> > local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the
lowest
> > temperature and highest pressure available.
> >
> > The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at
> > higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary
> > layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and
such
> > are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth
is
> > actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a
smooth
> > wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> > than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> > idea.
> >
> >
> > billy ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> >> paper filter.
> >>
> >> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> >> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >>
> >> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> >> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> >> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
would
> >> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
> >> airflow into the throttle body.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >>
> >>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
have
> >>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>>performance of my engine.
> >>>
> >>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>>
> >>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi Mike,
> >>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>>engine's breathing.
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>>paper filters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
there
> >>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
wear,
> >>>>>maybe....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mike
> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>
> >>
>
In city traffic it can get hot up there, but it must be cool enough going
down the highway. I am getting 25 mpg in my four cylinder 1995 Wrangler.
One of the things we learned in science and engineering courses was not to
put too much weight in unverified theoretical predictions.
Earle
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:64c71$44df67b4$48311eaf$23103@FUSE.NET...
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> > their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is
> > also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> > supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> > functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> > pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising
> > performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors
to
> > a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> > local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the
lowest
> > temperature and highest pressure available.
> >
> > The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at
> > higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary
> > layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and
such
> > are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth
is
> > actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a
smooth
> > wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> > than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> > idea.
> >
> >
> > billy ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> >> paper filter.
> >>
> >> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> >> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >>
> >> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> >> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> >> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
would
> >> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
> >> airflow into the throttle body.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >>
> >>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
have
> >>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>>performance of my engine.
> >>>
> >>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>>
> >>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi Mike,
> >>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>>engine's breathing.
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>>paper filters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
there
> >>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
wear,
> >>>>>maybe....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mike
> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>
> >>
>
08-13-2006, 07:04 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Turbo City's Rock-It! air tube gets it from right on top of the valve cover.
In city traffic it can get hot up there, but it must be cool enough going
down the highway. I am getting 25 mpg in my four cylinder 1995 Wrangler.
One of the things we learned in science and engineering courses was not to
put too much weight in unverified theoretical predictions.
Earle
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:64c71$44df67b4$48311eaf$23103@FUSE.NET...
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> > their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is
> > also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> > supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> > functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> > pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising
> > performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors
to
> > a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> > local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the
lowest
> > temperature and highest pressure available.
> >
> > The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at
> > higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary
> > layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and
such
> > are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth
is
> > actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a
smooth
> > wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> > than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> > idea.
> >
> >
> > billy ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> >> paper filter.
> >>
> >> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> >> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >>
> >> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> >> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> >> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
would
> >> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
> >> airflow into the throttle body.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >>
> >>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
have
> >>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>>performance of my engine.
> >>>
> >>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>>
> >>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi Mike,
> >>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>>engine's breathing.
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>>paper filters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
there
> >>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
wear,
> >>>>>maybe....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mike
> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>
> >>
>
In city traffic it can get hot up there, but it must be cool enough going
down the highway. I am getting 25 mpg in my four cylinder 1995 Wrangler.
One of the things we learned in science and engineering courses was not to
put too much weight in unverified theoretical predictions.
Earle
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:64c71$44df67b4$48311eaf$23103@FUSE.NET...
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> > their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is
> > also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> > supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> > functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> > pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising
> > performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors
to
> > a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> > local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the
lowest
> > temperature and highest pressure available.
> >
> > The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at
> > higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary
> > layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and
such
> > are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth
is
> > actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a
smooth
> > wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> > than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> > idea.
> >
> >
> > billy ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> >> paper filter.
> >>
> >> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> >> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >>
> >> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> >> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> >> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
would
> >> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
> >> airflow into the throttle body.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >>
> >>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
have
> >>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>>performance of my engine.
> >>>
> >>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>>
> >>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi Mike,
> >>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>>engine's breathing.
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>>paper filters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
there
> >>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
wear,
> >>>>>maybe....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mike
> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>
> >>
>
08-13-2006, 07:04 PM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Turbo City's Rock-It! air tube gets it from right on top of the valve cover.
In city traffic it can get hot up there, but it must be cool enough going
down the highway. I am getting 25 mpg in my four cylinder 1995 Wrangler.
One of the things we learned in science and engineering courses was not to
put too much weight in unverified theoretical predictions.
Earle
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:64c71$44df67b4$48311eaf$23103@FUSE.NET...
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> > their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is
> > also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> > supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> > functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> > pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising
> > performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors
to
> > a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> > local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the
lowest
> > temperature and highest pressure available.
> >
> > The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at
> > higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary
> > layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and
such
> > are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth
is
> > actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a
smooth
> > wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> > than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> > idea.
> >
> >
> > billy ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> >> paper filter.
> >>
> >> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> >> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >>
> >> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> >> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> >> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
would
> >> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
> >> airflow into the throttle body.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >>
> >>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
have
> >>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>>performance of my engine.
> >>>
> >>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>>
> >>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi Mike,
> >>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>>engine's breathing.
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>>paper filters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
there
> >>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
wear,
> >>>>>maybe....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mike
> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>
> >>
>
In city traffic it can get hot up there, but it must be cool enough going
down the highway. I am getting 25 mpg in my four cylinder 1995 Wrangler.
One of the things we learned in science and engineering courses was not to
put too much weight in unverified theoretical predictions.
Earle
"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:64c71$44df67b4$48311eaf$23103@FUSE.NET...
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> > their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is
> > also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> > supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> > functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> > pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising
> > performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors
to
> > a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
> > local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the
lowest
> > temperature and highest pressure available.
> >
> > The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at
> > higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary
> > layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and
such
> > are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth
is
> > actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a
smooth
> > wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
> > than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
> > idea.
> >
> >
> > billy ray proclaimed:
> >
> >> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> >> paper filter.
> >>
> >> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> >> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >>
> >> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> >> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> >> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
would
> >> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
> >> airflow into the throttle body.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >>
> >>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
have
> >>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>>performance of my engine.
> >>>
> >>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>>
> >>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi Mike,
> >>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>>engine's breathing.
> >>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>>paper filters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
there
> >>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
wear,
> >>>>>maybe....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mike
> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>
> >>
>
08-13-2006, 07:06 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
billy ray wrote:
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
>> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
>> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
>> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
>> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
>> temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
>> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
>> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
>> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
>> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
>> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
>> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
>> idea.
>>
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>>> paper filter.
>>>
>>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried this?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>>
>>>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>> performance of my engine.
>>>>
>>>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>> engine's breathing.
>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>> passes dust through.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>> paper filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>> is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>> back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>> maybe....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $0.02,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>
FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield
between the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my
dealer says the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I
get my scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with
most tanks getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
--
FRH
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
>> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
>> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
>> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
>> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
>> temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
>> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
>> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
>> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
>> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
>> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
>> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
>> idea.
>>
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>>> paper filter.
>>>
>>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried this?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>>
>>>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>> performance of my engine.
>>>>
>>>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>> engine's breathing.
>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>> passes dust through.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>> paper filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>> is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>> back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>> maybe....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $0.02,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>
FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield
between the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my
dealer says the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I
get my scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with
most tanks getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
--
FRH
08-13-2006, 07:06 PM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
billy ray wrote:
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
>> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
>> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
>> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
>> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
>> temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
>> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
>> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
>> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
>> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
>> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
>> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
>> idea.
>>
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>>> paper filter.
>>>
>>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried this?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>>
>>>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>> performance of my engine.
>>>>
>>>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>> engine's breathing.
>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>> passes dust through.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>> paper filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>> is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>> back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>> maybe....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $0.02,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>
FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield
between the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my
dealer says the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I
get my scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with
most tanks getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
--
FRH
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
>> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
>> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
>> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
>> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
>> temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
>> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
>> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
>> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
>> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
>> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
>> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
>> idea.
>>
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>>> paper filter.
>>>
>>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried this?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>>
>>>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>> performance of my engine.
>>>>
>>>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>> engine's breathing.
>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>> passes dust through.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>> paper filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>> is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>> back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>> maybe....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $0.02,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>
FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield
between the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my
dealer says the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I
get my scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with
most tanks getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
--
FRH
08-13-2006, 07:06 PM
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
billy ray wrote:
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
>> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
>> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
>> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
>> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
>> temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
>> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
>> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
>> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
>> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
>> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
>> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
>> idea.
>>
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>>> paper filter.
>>>
>>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried this?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>>
>>>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>> performance of my engine.
>>>>
>>>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>> engine's breathing.
>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>> passes dust through.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>> paper filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>> is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>> back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>> maybe....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $0.02,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>
FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield
between the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my
dealer says the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I
get my scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with
most tanks getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
--
FRH
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
>> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
>> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
>> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
>> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
>> temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
>> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
>> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
>> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
>> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
>> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
>> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
>> idea.
>>
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>>> paper filter.
>>>
>>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried this?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>>
>>>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>> performance of my engine.
>>>>
>>>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>> engine's breathing.
>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>> passes dust through.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>> paper filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>> is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>> back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>> maybe....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $0.02,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>
FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield
between the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my
dealer says the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I
get my scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with
most tanks getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
--
FRH
08-13-2006, 07:06 PM
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
billy ray wrote:
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
>> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
>> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
>> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
>> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
>> temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
>> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
>> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
>> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
>> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
>> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
>> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
>> idea.
>>
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>>> paper filter.
>>>
>>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried this?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>>
>>>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>> performance of my engine.
>>>>
>>>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>> engine's breathing.
>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>> passes dust through.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>> paper filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>> is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>> back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>> maybe....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $0.02,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>
FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield
between the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my
dealer says the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I
get my scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with
most tanks getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
--
FRH
> Almost all of these systems are set up so they draw superheated engine
> compartment air from the nearby exhaust manifolds
>
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:98WdnaWgMPzHwELZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there is
>> also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some cruising
>> performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure sensors to
>> a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound or so off
>> local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose the lowest
>> temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear, at
>> higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a boundary
>> layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those creases and such
>> are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding weight. Too smooth is
>> actually worse than some roughness. The air will try to stick to a smooth
>> wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days use microsurfacing rather
>> than the old smooth polishing that some hot rodders thought was a good
>> idea.
>>
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>>> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>>> paper filter.
>>>
>>> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>>> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>>> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>>> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would
>>> be reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother
>>> airflow into the throttle body.
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried this?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>>>
>>>> There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>>> soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>>> just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>>> and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>>> performance of my engine.
>>>>
>>>> I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>>> CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>>> even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>>> filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>>> engine's breathing.
>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>>> passes dust through.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>>> paper filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>>> is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>>> back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>>> maybe....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $0.02,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>
FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield
between the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my
dealer says the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I
get my scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with
most tanks getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
--
FRH
08-13-2006, 07:21 PM
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Sounds like your system is still sucking in heated (engine compartment) air.
There are a very small number of these K & N type systems that duct in
outside air into the 'shielded area' but probably 99% of the setups I have
seen the filter is still ingesting engine compartment air.
The factory airbox uses a cold air intake.
> FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
> positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
> original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield between
> the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my dealer says
> the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I get my
> scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with most tanks
> getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
>
> --
> FRH
There are a very small number of these K & N type systems that duct in
outside air into the 'shielded area' but probably 99% of the setups I have
seen the filter is still ingesting engine compartment air.
The factory airbox uses a cold air intake.
> FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
> positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
> original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield between
> the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my dealer says
> the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I get my
> scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with most tanks
> getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
>
> --
> FRH
08-13-2006, 07:21 PM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Sounds like your system is still sucking in heated (engine compartment) air.
There are a very small number of these K & N type systems that duct in
outside air into the 'shielded area' but probably 99% of the setups I have
seen the filter is still ingesting engine compartment air.
The factory airbox uses a cold air intake.
> FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
> positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
> original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield between
> the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my dealer says
> the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I get my
> scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with most tanks
> getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
>
> --
> FRH
There are a very small number of these K & N type systems that duct in
outside air into the 'shielded area' but probably 99% of the setups I have
seen the filter is still ingesting engine compartment air.
The factory airbox uses a cold air intake.
> FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
> positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
> original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield between
> the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my dealer says
> the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I get my
> scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with most tanks
> getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
>
> --
> FRH
08-13-2006, 07:21 PM
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Sounds like your system is still sucking in heated (engine compartment) air.
There are a very small number of these K & N type systems that duct in
outside air into the 'shielded area' but probably 99% of the setups I have
seen the filter is still ingesting engine compartment air.
The factory airbox uses a cold air intake.
> FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
> positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
> original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield between
> the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my dealer says
> the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I get my
> scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with most tanks
> getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
>
> --
> FRH
There are a very small number of these K & N type systems that duct in
outside air into the 'shielded area' but probably 99% of the setups I have
seen the filter is still ingesting engine compartment air.
The factory airbox uses a cold air intake.
> FWIW I'm using the Jeep/MOPAR air intake on my '04 TJ six and it is
> positioned in the right front of the engine compartment as high as the
> original box with snorkel. The kit also includes an air dam/shield between
> the intake and engine. It was dealer installed and at least my dealer says
> the warranty is unaffected. They service the filter when I get my
> scheduled service. My gas mileage ranges from 19+ to 23+ with most tanks
> getting 20 to 21. It varies with a/c use and type of road used.
>
> --
> FRH
