Chrome intake with K&N
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
rodders thought was a good idea.
billy ray proclaimed:
> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>
>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>performance of my engine.
>>
>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>
>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>paper filters.
>>>>
>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>maybe....
>>>>
>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
rodders thought was a good idea.
billy ray proclaimed:
> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>
>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>performance of my engine.
>>
>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>
>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>paper filters.
>>>>
>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>maybe....
>>>>
>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
rodders thought was a good idea.
billy ray proclaimed:
> I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> paper filter.
>
> It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>
> Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> the throttle body.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>
>>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
>>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>>performance of my engine.
>>
>>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>>
>>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Mike,
>>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>>>engine's breathing.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>>>>passes dust through.
>>>>
>>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>>>>paper filters.
>>>>
>>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
>>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
>>>>maybe....
>>>>
>>>>Just my $0.02,
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
Others didn't know they had it and oops...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Lon wrote:
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
> rodders thought was a good idea.
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> > paper filter.
> >
> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >
> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> > the throttle body.
> >
> > Has anyone tried this?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >
> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>performance of my engine.
> >>
> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>
> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi Mike,
> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>engine's breathing.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>
> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>paper filters.
> >>>>
> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
> >>>>maybe....
> >>>>
> >>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike
> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> >
> >
and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
Others didn't know they had it and oops...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Lon wrote:
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
> rodders thought was a good idea.
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> > paper filter.
> >
> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >
> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> > the throttle body.
> >
> > Has anyone tried this?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >
> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>performance of my engine.
> >>
> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>
> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi Mike,
> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>engine's breathing.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>
> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>paper filters.
> >>>>
> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
> >>>>maybe....
> >>>>
> >>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike
> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> >
> >
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
Others didn't know they had it and oops...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Lon wrote:
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
> rodders thought was a good idea.
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> > paper filter.
> >
> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >
> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> > the throttle body.
> >
> > Has anyone tried this?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >
> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>performance of my engine.
> >>
> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>
> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi Mike,
> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>engine's breathing.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>
> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>paper filters.
> >>>>
> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
> >>>>maybe....
> >>>>
> >>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike
> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> >
> >
and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
Others didn't know they had it and oops...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Lon wrote:
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
> rodders thought was a good idea.
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> > paper filter.
> >
> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >
> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> > the throttle body.
> >
> > Has anyone tried this?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >
> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>performance of my engine.
> >>
> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>
> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi Mike,
> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>engine's breathing.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>
> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>paper filters.
> >>>>
> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
> >>>>maybe....
> >>>>
> >>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike
> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> >
> >
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
Others didn't know they had it and oops...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Lon wrote:
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
> rodders thought was a good idea.
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> > paper filter.
> >
> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >
> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> > the throttle body.
> >
> > Has anyone tried this?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >
> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>performance of my engine.
> >>
> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>
> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi Mike,
> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>engine's breathing.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>
> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>paper filters.
> >>>>
> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
> >>>>maybe....
> >>>>
> >>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike
> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> >
> >
and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
Others didn't know they had it and oops...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Lon wrote:
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
> rodders thought was a good idea.
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> > paper filter.
> >
> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >
> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> > the throttle body.
> >
> > Has anyone tried this?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >
> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>performance of my engine.
> >>
> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>
> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi Mike,
> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>engine's breathing.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>
> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>paper filters.
> >>>>
> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
> >>>>maybe....
> >>>>
> >>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike
> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> >
> >
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
Others didn't know they had it and oops...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Lon wrote:
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
> rodders thought was a good idea.
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> > paper filter.
> >
> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >
> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> > the throttle body.
> >
> > Has anyone tried this?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >
> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>performance of my engine.
> >>
> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>
> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi Mike,
> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>engine's breathing.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>
> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>paper filters.
> >>>>
> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
> >>>>maybe....
> >>>>
> >>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike
> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> >
> >
and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
Others didn't know they had it and oops...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Lon wrote:
>
> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>
> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
> rodders thought was a good idea.
>
> billy ray proclaimed:
>
> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
> > paper filter.
> >
> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
> >
> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it would be
> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow into
> > the throttle body.
> >
> > Has anyone tried this?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
> >
> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I have
> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
> >>performance of my engine.
> >>
> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
> >>
> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi Mike,
> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
> >>>engine's breathing.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
> >>>>passes dust through.
> >>>>
> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
> >>>>paper filters.
> >>>>
> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless there
> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and wear,
> >>>>maybe....
> >>>>
> >>>>Just my $0.02,
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike
> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> >
> >
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
On the WJ it is alongside the driver's headlight at a height of 36" on a
stock suspension.
When going off-road you can pull this off and rotate it upward so it is now
at the height of the top of the airbox.or attach an air hose and relocate
the intake to the rear of the engine compartment.
At a local off-road rally last month a local Jeeper couple tried to see how
fast they could cross a water hazard and hydro-locked their motor.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44DF6232.911A7BD9@sympatico.ca...
> You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
> and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
> you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
> bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
>
> I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
> routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
>
> Others didn't know they had it and oops...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
>> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
>> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
>> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
>> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
>> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
>> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
>> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
>> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
>> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
>> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
>> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
>> rodders thought was a good idea.
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> > paper filter.
>> >
>> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>> >
>> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
>> > would be
>> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
>> > into
>> > the throttle body.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried this?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> >
>> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
>> >>have
>> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> >>performance of my engine.
>> >>
>> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>> >>
>> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Hi Mike,
>> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>> >>>engine's breathing.
>> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>> >>>>passes dust through.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>> >>>>paper filters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>> >>>>there
>> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
>> >>>>wear,
>> >>>>maybe....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Just my $0.02,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mike
>> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >
>> >
>> >
stock suspension.
When going off-road you can pull this off and rotate it upward so it is now
at the height of the top of the airbox.or attach an air hose and relocate
the intake to the rear of the engine compartment.
At a local off-road rally last month a local Jeeper couple tried to see how
fast they could cross a water hazard and hydro-locked their motor.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44DF6232.911A7BD9@sympatico.ca...
> You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
> and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
> you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
> bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
>
> I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
> routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
>
> Others didn't know they had it and oops...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
>> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
>> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
>> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
>> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
>> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
>> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
>> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
>> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
>> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
>> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
>> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
>> rodders thought was a good idea.
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> > paper filter.
>> >
>> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>> >
>> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
>> > would be
>> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
>> > into
>> > the throttle body.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried this?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> >
>> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
>> >>have
>> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> >>performance of my engine.
>> >>
>> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>> >>
>> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Hi Mike,
>> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>> >>>engine's breathing.
>> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>> >>>>passes dust through.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>> >>>>paper filters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>> >>>>there
>> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
>> >>>>wear,
>> >>>>maybe....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Just my $0.02,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mike
>> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >
>> >
>> >
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
On the WJ it is alongside the driver's headlight at a height of 36" on a
stock suspension.
When going off-road you can pull this off and rotate it upward so it is now
at the height of the top of the airbox.or attach an air hose and relocate
the intake to the rear of the engine compartment.
At a local off-road rally last month a local Jeeper couple tried to see how
fast they could cross a water hazard and hydro-locked their motor.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44DF6232.911A7BD9@sympatico.ca...
> You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
> and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
> you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
> bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
>
> I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
> routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
>
> Others didn't know they had it and oops...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
>> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
>> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
>> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
>> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
>> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
>> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
>> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
>> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
>> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
>> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
>> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
>> rodders thought was a good idea.
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> > paper filter.
>> >
>> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>> >
>> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
>> > would be
>> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
>> > into
>> > the throttle body.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried this?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> >
>> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
>> >>have
>> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> >>performance of my engine.
>> >>
>> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>> >>
>> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Hi Mike,
>> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>> >>>engine's breathing.
>> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>> >>>>passes dust through.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>> >>>>paper filters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>> >>>>there
>> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
>> >>>>wear,
>> >>>>maybe....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Just my $0.02,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mike
>> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >
>> >
>> >
stock suspension.
When going off-road you can pull this off and rotate it upward so it is now
at the height of the top of the airbox.or attach an air hose and relocate
the intake to the rear of the engine compartment.
At a local off-road rally last month a local Jeeper couple tried to see how
fast they could cross a water hazard and hydro-locked their motor.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44DF6232.911A7BD9@sympatico.ca...
> You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
> and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
> you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
> bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
>
> I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
> routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
>
> Others didn't know they had it and oops...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
>> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
>> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
>> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
>> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
>> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
>> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
>> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
>> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
>> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
>> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
>> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
>> rodders thought was a good idea.
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> > paper filter.
>> >
>> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>> >
>> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
>> > would be
>> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
>> > into
>> > the throttle body.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried this?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> >
>> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
>> >>have
>> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> >>performance of my engine.
>> >>
>> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>> >>
>> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Hi Mike,
>> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>> >>>engine's breathing.
>> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>> >>>>passes dust through.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>> >>>>paper filters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>> >>>>there
>> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
>> >>>>wear,
>> >>>>maybe....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Just my $0.02,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mike
>> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >
>> >
>> >
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Chrome intake with K&N
On the WJ it is alongside the driver's headlight at a height of 36" on a
stock suspension.
When going off-road you can pull this off and rotate it upward so it is now
at the height of the top of the airbox.or attach an air hose and relocate
the intake to the rear of the engine compartment.
At a local off-road rally last month a local Jeeper couple tried to see how
fast they could cross a water hazard and hydro-locked their motor.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44DF6232.911A7BD9@sympatico.ca...
> You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
> and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
> you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
> bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
>
> I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
> routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
>
> Others didn't know they had it and oops...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
>> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
>> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
>> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
>> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
>> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
>> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
>> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
>> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
>> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
>> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
>> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
>> rodders thought was a good idea.
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> > paper filter.
>> >
>> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>> >
>> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
>> > would be
>> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
>> > into
>> > the throttle body.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried this?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> >
>> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
>> >>have
>> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> >>performance of my engine.
>> >>
>> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>> >>
>> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Hi Mike,
>> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>> >>>engine's breathing.
>> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>> >>>>passes dust through.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>> >>>>paper filters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>> >>>>there
>> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
>> >>>>wear,
>> >>>>maybe....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Just my $0.02,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mike
>> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >
>> >
>> >
stock suspension.
When going off-road you can pull this off and rotate it upward so it is now
at the height of the top of the airbox.or attach an air hose and relocate
the intake to the rear of the engine compartment.
At a local off-road rally last month a local Jeeper couple tried to see how
fast they could cross a water hazard and hydro-locked their motor.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44DF6232.911A7BD9@sympatico.ca...
> You have to 'really' watch out for ram air scoops in Jeeps! Some YJ's
> and also TJ's I think have a ram air scoop just below the headlight. If
> you cross water with this hooked up, as soon as the water tops the
> bumper, gulp and your engine is hydrolocked.
>
> I know folks like 'seppster' from this group has disconnected his and
> routed it with ABS pipe up higher and pointing back I think too.
>
> Others didn't know they had it and oops...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Most of their effect is supposed to be due to picking up cooler air from
>> their physical location. If that air intake happens to be where there
>> is also a local boost in air pressure, you get kind of a poor man's
>> supercharging effect. Is why some of the old muscle cars had actually
>> functional hood scoops and some of the smarter ones picked up the higher
>> pressure air often found at the base of the windshield. For some
>> cruising performance boost maybe the OP could attach a few air pressure
>> sensors to a laptop and move them around until a location with a pound
>> or so off local pressure is located. Add temperature sensors and choose
>> the lowest temperature and highest pressure available.
>>
>> The shape of the intake channel isn't as important as it might appear,
>> at higher speeds the airflow takes place in the main channel using a
>> boundary layer that forms along the irregularities. Most of those
>> creases and such are to stiffen to avoid intake boom while avoiding
>> weight. Too smooth is actually worse than some roughness. The air will
>> try to stick to a smooth wall more. Most hotrod manifolds these days
>> use microsurfacing rather than the old smooth polishing that some hot
>> rodders thought was a good idea.
>>
>> billy ray proclaimed:
>>
>> > I have considered 'streamlining' the factory intake while retaining the
>> > paper filter.
>> >
>> > It seems reasonable that the intake resonator and the corrugated piping
>> > introduces disturbances in the airflow that robs performance.
>> >
>> > Of course, I don't know how much, if any, effect this would have on the
>> > engine but as K & N (and others) claim that the 'Intake Systems" are
>> > superior to just their drop in filters (into the factory airbox) it
>> > would be
>> > reasonable that the improvement is actually due to the smoother airflow
>> > into
>> > the throttle body.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried this?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:44DF3545.CD860405@sympatico.ca...
>> >
>> >>There have been several occasions where I have ended up with an oil
>> >>soaked air filter that wasn't working or passing air any more and I
>> >>have
>> >>just taken the sucker out to continue on. Running with no air filter
>> >>and then putting one in has made no noticeable difference in the
>> >>performance of my engine.
>> >>
>> >>I have done this with 'both' my 4.2 and 4.0 engines due to the PCV or
>> >>CCV systems having the odd fit.
>> >>
>> >>Therefore I sure wouldn't bother using a 'performance' air filter that
>> >>even admits on it's website it lets more dirt to pass than an OEM
>> >>filter. Makes no sense to me.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Hi Mike,
>> >>> Agreed, but a "new" paper element isn't going to hinder any stock
>> >>>engine's breathing.
>> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Well..... Even the K+N has been shown by folks on this group that it
>> >>>>passes dust through.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I like to have my engines running really well and I stick with stock
>> >>>>paper filters.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Being able to breath more air in doesn't really help a 4.0 unless
>> >>>>there
>> >>>>is some place for it to go so if you put on some headers and a 'cat
>> >>>>back' and maybe a cam, then it might be worth the extra dust and
>> >>>>wear,
>> >>>>maybe....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Just my $0.02,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mike
>> >>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >>>>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> >>>>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >
>> >
>> >