Well, I took a closer look at the jeep this evening and I noticed both the
pulse air openings from the previous setup still were not completely sealed,
I could feel air coming from them. So I took a pipe wrench and turned them
up till no air was coming out. At first I thought this fixed the problem
but no. But now I think it's less consistant than before. That is, I'm
hearing it stronger in second gear than any of the others. I need to put
the windows back on the half door and get a better listening environment and
make sure.

btw, I don't hear the ping when I'm at idle. Does that say anything?

How can I evaluate the crank or the lifters?

Thanks,
Bill


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F89E869.43EFF048@sympatico.ca...
> You are chasing a ghost....
>
> What you are calling timing ping can't be timing ping unless something
> is seriously messed up. No head swap is going to fix that....
>
> Timing ping only happens under load.....
>
> Ummm how are the lifters or how is the crank?
>
> Does the 'ping' happen at a certain frequency?
>
> What I mean is if you put a timing light on it, does the ping happen in
> time with the light or is it slower?
>
> You can even move the timing light from plug to plug and watch the
> flashes. If number 3 is in perfect time with the 'ping', you need a
> bottom end or crank job....
>
> If in time with the light, that implies a main or rod bearing, if slower
> it implies a sticky lifter. An oil additive for sticky lifters can do
> it wonders then.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike, thanks for that post. I should mention that I'm getting
consistant
> > ping from first through 5th gear no matter what the rpm. I haven't
found a
> > sweet spot. The only difference is I can't hear the ping at high speeds
> > because of the wind and highway noises. I'm certian it's there though.
> >
> > What does it say if ping is consistant, load (going up a hill) or no
load.
> > I should also mention I'm running 32x11.5 tires on my cj with stock
gears
> > (as far as I know).
> >
> > also, I have manual brakes in my case.
> >
> > also, this is not a new engine so I seriously doubt high compression in
this
> > case.
> >
> > also, if the distributor was not functioning correctly, then when
jeepsrus
> > retarded the timing it would show on the computer wouldn't it. That is,
set
> > the timing back 6 degrees it should reflect that change in the computer
(DRB
> > II).
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F89DBB3.2432E63D@sympatico.ca...
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Mike,
> > > >
> > > > So if compression was an issue it would be too high? Too low of
> > compression
> > > > wouldn't make it ping would it?
> > >
> > > Correct. A 'new' 258 is supposed to have 145 - 150 psi all across.
If
> > > you are any higher, you have carbon issues and the ATF treatment might
> > > be for you, despite the smoke out it will cause.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > How do you determine if the distributor is worn? It looked good
> > physically
> > > > when I put it in.
> > >
> > > You will need a timing light to check the advance rate. The springs
on
> > > the internal timing advance weights can be worn out.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What does it mean by the term "advance"? What's the opposite of
> > advance?
> > >
> > > 'Advance' means you are advancing the spark to 'before top dead
> > > center'. Retarding it is putting it closer to 0 on the gauge or going
> > > past to ATDC or after top dead center. Some computer controlled
> > > vehicles call for this with a timing light and some advance
connections
> > > unplugged to test it I think.
> > >
> > > 'You' want the spark to catch just in time for all the gas/air mix to
> > > explode as the piston crests the top of it's travel so you get the
> > > maximum downward push.
> > >
> > > So for different speeds, you want the advance to be higher or lower so
> > > the electricity signal to the ignition module or points and physical
> > > moving parts and fuel intake come together at the right spot, the
'sweet
> > > spot'.
> > >
> > > If the timing is too far advanced, the explosion kicks back on the
> > > piston before it crests the top and all the bearings get a physical
hit
> > > and the piston itself flaps sideways making a 'rattle' or 'ping' or
> > > 'knock'.
> > >
> > > Low octane gas can start to explode by compression, like diesel does
so
> > > you have the gas igniting before the spark plug fires off. Octane is
> > > added to slow down that burn rate or 'flash point' so the gas waits
for
> > > the spark plug.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What is the negative effect of pumping the brake pedel fast?
> > > > What should be the desired effect when pumping the brake pedel fast?
> > >
> > > If you have power brakes, they use a big vacuum diaphragm. If it has
a
> > > leak, the idle will go crazy when you pump the brakes hard and fast.
A
> > > little rumble and a change in the idle is normal, but a leak won't be
> > > that, the idle will go way high and take a while to come back down
> > > stable....
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Someone told me that the advance should top out at 2300 rpm.
Maybe
> > > > > check that on yours by marking the slot white so you can see it
> > through
> > > > > the fan blades or mark a spot in a measured static advance for
> > > > > reference.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not clear on this. Is this checked with a timing light?
> > >
> > > Yes, you are looking for worn out springs in the advance mechanism
> > > inside the distributor. This means the timing advances before the
> > > engine needs it.
> > >
> > > If you manually turn the engine so the timing mark lines up and paint
> > > the v groove in the flywheel with something like typing white out,
then
> > > move the flywheel out to the 10 degree mark on the v groove and gauge
> > > and paint another spot on the flywheel at the 0 point, them turn that
> > > more so it hits 10, then make another mark makes 30, you will still be
> > > able to see the marks as they pass the gauge when the timing
'advances'.
> > >
> > > The idea is to see at what rpm the advance stops moving, no real
matter
> > > how 'much' it moves, just what rpm it stops moving.
> > >
> > > You do this test with the vacuum advance unplugged and that hose to
the
> > > carb blocked at the distributor end.
> > >
> > > As I said, it still should keep moving until you hit 2300 rpm 'I think
> > > that is the right rpm', then stop. Close to that anyway, that is
where
> > > I get the best torque and gas mileage on the highway too.
> > >
> > > I am thinking yours is topping at 1500 or something lower so the
advance
> > > is too soon for the engine's power band need and it will ping like a
> > > bugger for a bit there on acceleration, then mellow out at speed above
> > > 2300 rpm where the timing 'should' be topped out.
> > >
> > > If that theory is correct, then at 70 mph you shouldn't ping when you
> > > pull out to pass or climb a long hill. Try that at 55 mph in top gear
> > > with stock tires and it will ping like crazy.
> > >
> > > My engine starts a load ping in top gear at around 1700-1800 rpm or in
> > > my case 65 mph. I need to run in 4th on the highway at those speeds.
> > > That gives me 2300 rpm and 100 miles extra per tank of gas running 91
> > > octane, really good get up and go and no pings ever...
> > >
> > > Running right at the 'sweet spot' where the timing comes into sync
with
> > > the power needed gives me a nice 19 US mpg or 11 L/100 km. In my case
> > > with 3.31 gears, that is 65 mph at 2300 rpm in 4th gear turning 33's.
> > > My speedometer is GPS calibrated right on too so I know I am getting a
> > > real mileage tag.
> > >
> > > 350 miles plus on a tank of gas ain't too shabby in my book. ;-)
> > >
> > > And I still have that Carter BBD in there!
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:3F89C5E6.BD58CE20@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > What is your compression?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is your distributor maybe worn so it advances too far or too easy?
> > > > >
> > > > > Someone told me that the advance should top out at 2300 rpm.
Maybe
> > > > > check that on yours by marking the slot white so you can see it
> > through
> > > > > the fan blades or mark a spot in a measured static advance for
> > > > > reference.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe someone knows for sure what the top end for advance is for
sure?
> > > > > If it tops too fast you can get a ping.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vacuum leak? Maybe try a spray of carb cleaner along the manifold
> > > > > gasket and TB base plate to see if the idle bumps. Same for
vacuum
> > > > > lines.
> > > > >
> > > > > What happens if you pump the brake pedal fast a few times?
> > > > >
> > > > > Something simple is likely to pop up I am thinking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > yeah, I have to get a 4.0L manifold. I have the head and the
valve
> > > > cover.
> > > > > > I need the manifold and a kit for the head bolts (7/16 to 1/2
inch).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > shouldn't be too much more in parts. mostly labor at this
point.
> > > > something
> > > > > > I didn't really want to do but no way around it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:3F89B926.EED5AABD@***.net...
> > > > > > > But, your manifold won't fit the 4.0 litre head. Maybe,
put a
> > > > > > > sandwich gasket in and loose a compression.
> > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well I've tried retarding the timing, upping the octane,
cooler
> > > > spark
> > > > > > plugs,
> > > > > > > > even (at the suggestion of JeepsRUs) tried one of those
tornado
> > > > thingys
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > which didn't work. Still have pinging. Luckily, JeepsRUs
> > refunded
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > 57.00 for the tornado thing when it didn't work. So I guess
the
> > > > next
> > > > > > step
> > > > > > > > is to put the 4.0L head on the bugger. This I had planned
> > anyway
> > > > but I
> > > > > > > > didn't want to be forced into it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > booo hsssss

 

Well, I took a closer look at the jeep this evening and I noticed both the
pulse air openings from the previous setup still were not completely sealed,
I could feel air coming from them. So I took a pipe wrench and turned them
up till no air was coming out. At first I thought this fixed the problem
but no. But now I think it's less consistant than before. That is, I'm
hearing it stronger in second gear than any of the others. I need to put
the windows back on the half door and get a better listening environment and
make sure.

btw, I don't hear the ping when I'm at idle. Does that say anything?

How can I evaluate the crank or the lifters?

Thanks,
Bill


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F89E869.43EFF048@sympatico.ca...
> You are chasing a ghost....
>
> What you are calling timing ping can't be timing ping unless something
> is seriously messed up. No head swap is going to fix that....
>
> Timing ping only happens under load.....
>
> Ummm how are the lifters or how is the crank?
>
> Does the 'ping' happen at a certain frequency?
>
> What I mean is if you put a timing light on it, does the ping happen in
> time with the light or is it slower?
>
> You can even move the timing light from plug to plug and watch the
> flashes. If number 3 is in perfect time with the 'ping', you need a
> bottom end or crank job....
>
> If in time with the light, that implies a main or rod bearing, if slower
> it implies a sticky lifter. An oil additive for sticky lifters can do
> it wonders then.
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike, thanks for that post. I should mention that I'm getting
consistant
> > ping from first through 5th gear no matter what the rpm. I haven't
found a
> > sweet spot. The only difference is I can't hear the ping at high speeds
> > because of the wind and highway noises. I'm certian it's there though.
> >
> > What does it say if ping is consistant, load (going up a hill) or no
load.
> > I should also mention I'm running 32x11.5 tires on my cj with stock
gears
> > (as far as I know).
> >
> > also, I have manual brakes in my case.
> >
> > also, this is not a new engine so I seriously doubt high compression in
this
> > case.
> >
> > also, if the distributor was not functioning correctly, then when
jeepsrus
> > retarded the timing it would show on the computer wouldn't it. That is,
set
> > the timing back 6 degrees it should reflect that change in the computer
(DRB
> > II).
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3F89DBB3.2432E63D@sympatico.ca...
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Mike,
> > > >
> > > > So if compression was an issue it would be too high? Too low of
> > compression
> > > > wouldn't make it ping would it?
> > >
> > > Correct. A 'new' 258 is supposed to have 145 - 150 psi all across.
If
> > > you are any higher, you have carbon issues and the ATF treatment might
> > > be for you, despite the smoke out it will cause.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > How do you determine if the distributor is worn? It looked good
> > physically
> > > > when I put it in.
> > >
> > > You will need a timing light to check the advance rate. The springs
on
> > > the internal timing advance weights can be worn out.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What does it mean by the term "advance"? What's the opposite of
> > advance?
> > >
> > > 'Advance' means you are advancing the spark to 'before top dead
> > > center'. Retarding it is putting it closer to 0 on the gauge or going
> > > past to ATDC or after top dead center. Some computer controlled
> > > vehicles call for this with a timing light and some advance
connections
> > > unplugged to test it I think.
> > >
> > > 'You' want the spark to catch just in time for all the gas/air mix to
> > > explode as the piston crests the top of it's travel so you get the
> > > maximum downward push.
> > >
> > > So for different speeds, you want the advance to be higher or lower so
> > > the electricity signal to the ignition module or points and physical
> > > moving parts and fuel intake come together at the right spot, the
'sweet
> > > spot'.
> > >
> > > If the timing is too far advanced, the explosion kicks back on the
> > > piston before it crests the top and all the bearings get a physical
hit
> > > and the piston itself flaps sideways making a 'rattle' or 'ping' or
> > > 'knock'.
> > >
> > > Low octane gas can start to explode by compression, like diesel does
so
> > > you have the gas igniting before the spark plug fires off. Octane is
> > > added to slow down that burn rate or 'flash point' so the gas waits
for
> > > the spark plug.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What is the negative effect of pumping the brake pedel fast?
> > > > What should be the desired effect when pumping the brake pedel fast?
> > >
> > > If you have power brakes, they use a big vacuum diaphragm. If it has
a
> > > leak, the idle will go crazy when you pump the brakes hard and fast.
A
> > > little rumble and a change in the idle is normal, but a leak won't be
> > > that, the idle will go way high and take a while to come back down
> > > stable....
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Someone told me that the advance should top out at 2300 rpm.
Maybe
> > > > > check that on yours by marking the slot white so you can see it
> > through
> > > > > the fan blades or mark a spot in a measured static advance for
> > > > > reference.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not clear on this. Is this checked with a timing light?
> > >
> > > Yes, you are looking for worn out springs in the advance mechanism
> > > inside the distributor. This means the timing advances before the
> > > engine needs it.
> > >
> > > If you manually turn the engine so the timing mark lines up and paint
> > > the v groove in the flywheel with something like typing white out,
then
> > > move the flywheel out to the 10 degree mark on the v groove and gauge
> > > and paint another spot on the flywheel at the 0 point, them turn that
> > > more so it hits 10, then make another mark makes 30, you will still be
> > > able to see the marks as they pass the gauge when the timing
'advances'.
> > >
> > > The idea is to see at what rpm the advance stops moving, no real
matter
> > > how 'much' it moves, just what rpm it stops moving.
> > >
> > > You do this test with the vacuum advance unplugged and that hose to
the
> > > carb blocked at the distributor end.
> > >
> > > As I said, it still should keep moving until you hit 2300 rpm 'I think
> > > that is the right rpm', then stop. Close to that anyway, that is
where
> > > I get the best torque and gas mileage on the highway too.
> > >
> > > I am thinking yours is topping at 1500 or something lower so the
advance
> > > is too soon for the engine's power band need and it will ping like a
> > > bugger for a bit there on acceleration, then mellow out at speed above
> > > 2300 rpm where the timing 'should' be topped out.
> > >
> > > If that theory is correct, then at 70 mph you shouldn't ping when you
> > > pull out to pass or climb a long hill. Try that at 55 mph in top gear
> > > with stock tires and it will ping like crazy.
> > >
> > > My engine starts a load ping in top gear at around 1700-1800 rpm or in
> > > my case 65 mph. I need to run in 4th on the highway at those speeds.
> > > That gives me 2300 rpm and 100 miles extra per tank of gas running 91
> > > octane, really good get up and go and no pings ever...
> > >
> > > Running right at the 'sweet spot' where the timing comes into sync
with
> > > the power needed gives me a nice 19 US mpg or 11 L/100 km. In my case
> > > with 3.31 gears, that is 65 mph at 2300 rpm in 4th gear turning 33's.
> > > My speedometer is GPS calibrated right on too so I know I am getting a
> > > real mileage tag.
> > >
> > > 350 miles plus on a tank of gas ain't too shabby in my book. ;-)
> > >
> > > And I still have that Carter BBD in there!
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:3F89C5E6.BD58CE20@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > What is your compression?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is your distributor maybe worn so it advances too far or too easy?
> > > > >
> > > > > Someone told me that the advance should top out at 2300 rpm.
Maybe
> > > > > check that on yours by marking the slot white so you can see it
> > through
> > > > > the fan blades or mark a spot in a measured static advance for
> > > > > reference.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe someone knows for sure what the top end for advance is for
sure?
> > > > > If it tops too fast you can get a ping.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vacuum leak? Maybe try a spray of carb cleaner along the manifold
> > > > > gasket and TB base plate to see if the idle bumps. Same for
vacuum
> > > > > lines.
> > > > >
> > > > > What happens if you pump the brake pedal fast a few times?
> > > > >
> > > > > Something simple is likely to pop up I am thinking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > yeah, I have to get a 4.0L manifold. I have the head and the
valve
> > > > cover.
> > > > > > I need the manifold and a kit for the head bolts (7/16 to 1/2
inch).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > shouldn't be too much more in parts. mostly labor at this
point.
> > > > something
> > > > > > I didn't really want to do but no way around it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:3F89B926.EED5AABD@***.net...
> > > > > > > But, your manifold won't fit the 4.0 litre head. Maybe,
put a
> > > > > > > sandwich gasket in and loose a compression.
> > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well I've tried retarding the timing, upping the octane,
cooler
> > > > spark
> > > > > > plugs,
> > > > > > > > even (at the suggestion of JeepsRUs) tried one of those
tornado
> > > > thingys
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > which didn't work. Still have pinging. Luckily, JeepsRUs
> > refunded
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > 57.00 for the tornado thing when it didn't work. So I guess
the
> > > > next
> > > > > > step
> > > > > > > > is to put the 4.0L head on the bugger. This I had planned
> > anyway
> > > > but I
> > > > > > > > didn't want to be forced into it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > booo hsssss

 

In message <bmcl7o$kjtn8$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
wrote:

>Well, I did have JeepsRUs do this for me when I first had the pinging
>problem. They (owner, Larie) put it on the DRB II (no charge) and saw no
>errors at all. Then they retarded the timing by 6 degrees. Still have the
>ping. This was the owner doing this too who I expect has far more
>experience with jeeps, mpi and this problem than anyone else in the area.

Reputations don't fix Jeeps. You've been to the guy several times with no
results. The DRB could be telling him something that he's missing. Just
because there are no fault codes doesn't mean nothing's wrong with a sensor.

The engine computer tells you how much it's advancing the timing, but has no
idea where "initial" timing is. Has it been verified? Is it possible to put
the crank sensor in the wrong position in relation to the crank pulley? Not
talking distance from, but the clockwise relation.

Get another opinion.


>
>It was after the DRB II timing adjustment that didn't work that they (Larie)
>suggested the tornado thingy which also didn't work.
>
>http://www.jeepsrus.com/
>
>I'm going to call HESCO tomorrow and again Larie this week to see if
>anything else can be done. Aside from any more voodoo (tornado thingy) or
>with voodoo I'll welcome a fix. I'd rather not tear the engine apart again
>but if I gots to do it I gots to do it.
>
>bill
>
>
>"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>news:3F89D402.5A48BB6F@***.net...
>> Then you must pay a mechanic to do it, cause it ain't going happen
>> otherwise.
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> William Oliveri wrote:
>> >
>> > yeah, I looked for those but seem to be difficult to find and somewhat
>> > expensive:
>> >
>> >
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ory=43989&item
>> > =2436159222
>> >
>> > I haven't found a single unit yet.
>> >
>> > bill
>

 

In message <bmcl7o$kjtn8$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
wrote:

>Well, I did have JeepsRUs do this for me when I first had the pinging
>problem. They (owner, Larie) put it on the DRB II (no charge) and saw no
>errors at all. Then they retarded the timing by 6 degrees. Still have the
>ping. This was the owner doing this too who I expect has far more
>experience with jeeps, mpi and this problem than anyone else in the area.

Reputations don't fix Jeeps. You've been to the guy several times with no
results. The DRB could be telling him something that he's missing. Just
because there are no fault codes doesn't mean nothing's wrong with a sensor.

The engine computer tells you how much it's advancing the timing, but has no
idea where "initial" timing is. Has it been verified? Is it possible to put
the crank sensor in the wrong position in relation to the crank pulley? Not
talking distance from, but the clockwise relation.

Get another opinion.


>
>It was after the DRB II timing adjustment that didn't work that they (Larie)
>suggested the tornado thingy which also didn't work.
>
>http://www.jeepsrus.com/
>
>I'm going to call HESCO tomorrow and again Larie this week to see if
>anything else can be done. Aside from any more voodoo (tornado thingy) or
>with voodoo I'll welcome a fix. I'd rather not tear the engine apart again
>but if I gots to do it I gots to do it.
>
>bill
>
>
>"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>news:3F89D402.5A48BB6F@***.net...
>> Then you must pay a mechanic to do it, cause it ain't going happen
>> otherwise.
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> William Oliveri wrote:
>> >
>> > yeah, I looked for those but seem to be difficult to find and somewhat
>> > expensive:
>> >
>> >
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ory=43989&item
>> > =2436159222
>> >
>> > I haven't found a single unit yet.
>> >
>> > bill
>

 

In message <bmcl7o$kjtn8$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
wrote:

>Well, I did have JeepsRUs do this for me when I first had the pinging
>problem. They (owner, Larie) put it on the DRB II (no charge) and saw no
>errors at all. Then they retarded the timing by 6 degrees. Still have the
>ping. This was the owner doing this too who I expect has far more
>experience with jeeps, mpi and this problem than anyone else in the area.

Reputations don't fix Jeeps. You've been to the guy several times with no
results. The DRB could be telling him something that he's missing. Just
because there are no fault codes doesn't mean nothing's wrong with a sensor.

The engine computer tells you how much it's advancing the timing, but has no
idea where "initial" timing is. Has it been verified? Is it possible to put
the crank sensor in the wrong position in relation to the crank pulley? Not
talking distance from, but the clockwise relation.

Get another opinion.


>
>It was after the DRB II timing adjustment that didn't work that they (Larie)
>suggested the tornado thingy which also didn't work.
>
>http://www.jeepsrus.com/
>
>I'm going to call HESCO tomorrow and again Larie this week to see if
>anything else can be done. Aside from any more voodoo (tornado thingy) or
>with voodoo I'll welcome a fix. I'd rather not tear the engine apart again
>but if I gots to do it I gots to do it.
>
>bill
>
>
>"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>news:3F89D402.5A48BB6F@***.net...
>> Then you must pay a mechanic to do it, cause it ain't going happen
>> otherwise.
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> William Oliveri wrote:
>> >
>> > yeah, I looked for those but seem to be difficult to find and somewhat
>> > expensive:
>> >
>> >
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ory=43989&item
>> > =2436159222
>> >
>> > I haven't found a single unit yet.
>> >
>> > bill
>

 

William Oliveri wrote:
> no, I'm not suprised but then again JeepsRUs have had success with them in
> some cases. Since they refunded my 57.00 on that suggestion it was worth a
> try. If I was stuck with it then it would be a different story.

I have a problem in principle with a garage that recommend one of those
things... you might try a different mechanic... one that actually drives
your jeep to try and determine what your sound actually is...

I still think you have a sticky lifter, it's a common problem and can be
pretty random when it shows up (and under what circumstances)... also
that ticking lifter sound is easily drowned out at higher revs...
pinging is _louder_ at higher revs... So far you've said it makes the
sound at idle, not at idle, under load, and "can't hear it but I think
it's there" sounds pretty random. Honestly if you have pinging you'll
know it... it sounds like your engine is going to come apart if you've
got your foot down. You've already described the sounds as rhythmic (or
at least you said you thought it might be belt related, which implies a
rhythmic sound)... that lifter tick can sound a lot like an accessory or
belt.

 

William Oliveri wrote:
> no, I'm not suprised but then again JeepsRUs have had success with them in
> some cases. Since they refunded my 57.00 on that suggestion it was worth a
> try. If I was stuck with it then it would be a different story.

I have a problem in principle with a garage that recommend one of those
things... you might try a different mechanic... one that actually drives
your jeep to try and determine what your sound actually is...

I still think you have a sticky lifter, it's a common problem and can be
pretty random when it shows up (and under what circumstances)... also
that ticking lifter sound is easily drowned out at higher revs...
pinging is _louder_ at higher revs... So far you've said it makes the
sound at idle, not at idle, under load, and "can't hear it but I think
it's there" sounds pretty random. Honestly if you have pinging you'll
know it... it sounds like your engine is going to come apart if you've
got your foot down. You've already described the sounds as rhythmic (or
at least you said you thought it might be belt related, which implies a
rhythmic sound)... that lifter tick can sound a lot like an accessory or
belt.

 

William Oliveri wrote:
> no, I'm not suprised but then again JeepsRUs have had success with them in
> some cases. Since they refunded my 57.00 on that suggestion it was worth a
> try. If I was stuck with it then it would be a different story.

I have a problem in principle with a garage that recommend one of those
things... you might try a different mechanic... one that actually drives
your jeep to try and determine what your sound actually is...

I still think you have a sticky lifter, it's a common problem and can be
pretty random when it shows up (and under what circumstances)... also
that ticking lifter sound is easily drowned out at higher revs...
pinging is _louder_ at higher revs... So far you've said it makes the
sound at idle, not at idle, under load, and "can't hear it but I think
it's there" sounds pretty random. Honestly if you have pinging you'll
know it... it sounds like your engine is going to come apart if you've
got your foot down. You've already described the sounds as rhythmic (or
at least you said you thought it might be belt related, which implies a
rhythmic sound)... that lifter tick can sound a lot like an accessory or
belt.

 

Now you sound like you are on to something....

You are describing something that is letting go under exhaust pressure.

A 'ping' in the engine happens under load. Revving it up in second gear
is not a 'load' situation at all. My CJ7 will pull up to 4500 rpm and
over 50 mph in second. No load involved, just torque and high exhaust
pressure/back pressure.

Now if I put it in 5th gear at 60 mph and try to pass or climb a hill, I
will get a timing 'ping' or knock. Drop back to 4th and the noise is
gone.

If you are putting an engine under 'load', you are asking more of it
than it can give in that gear. I think of it as any time I don't have
an instant effect from my foot on the gas pedal. Like the 1st 1/3 of
the way down the gas pedal movement translates into pull or acceleration
but the last 2/3 of the gas pedal movement has no more effect on the
acceleration.

I then figure I am 'loading' the engine up and that is when it is time
to drop down a gear or I will get engine 'ping'.

For me on the highway with my 3.31 gears and 33" muds running in 4th
gear at 65 mph turning 2300 rpm gives me a gas pedal to acceleration hit
all the way down on the pedal. I get 19 US mpg driving like this.

If I use 5th gear at the same speeds. my rpm are down in the 1700's and
I only have pull in the top 1/3 of the gas pedal, any more and I just
drink gas, I don't accelerate because I am 'loading' the engine or
bogging the engine as most people say.

I am thinking something like those exhaust tubes or the exhaust manifold
is letting go in time to the pulses from the exhaust pressure under high
power or rpm.

Mike

William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Well, I took a closer look at the jeep this evening and I noticed both the
> pulse air openings from the previous setup still were not completely sealed,
> I could feel air coming from them. So I took a pipe wrench and turned them
> up till no air was coming out. At first I thought this fixed the problem
> but no. But now I think it's less consistant than before. That is, I'm
> hearing it stronger in second gear than any of the others. I need to put
> the windows back on the half door and get a better listening environment and
> make sure.
>
> btw, I don't hear the ping when I'm at idle. Does that say anything?
>
> How can I evaluate the crank or the lifters?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F89E869.43EFF048@sympatico.ca...
> > You are chasing a ghost....
> >
> > What you are calling timing ping can't be timing ping unless something
> > is seriously messed up. No head swap is going to fix that....
> >
> > Timing ping only happens under load.....
> >
> > Ummm how are the lifters or how is the crank?
> >
> > Does the 'ping' happen at a certain frequency?
> >
> > What I mean is if you put a timing light on it, does the ping happen in
> > time with the light or is it slower?
> >
> > You can even move the timing light from plug to plug and watch the
> > flashes. If number 3 is in perfect time with the 'ping', you need a
> > bottom end or crank job....
> >
> > If in time with the light, that implies a main or rod bearing, if slower
> > it implies a sticky lifter. An oil additive for sticky lifters can do
> > it wonders then.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mike, thanks for that post. I should mention that I'm getting
> consistant
> > > ping from first through 5th gear no matter what the rpm. I haven't
> found a
> > > sweet spot. The only difference is I can't hear the ping at high speeds
> > > because of the wind and highway noises. I'm certian it's there though.
> > >
> > > What does it say if ping is consistant, load (going up a hill) or no
> load.
> > > I should also mention I'm running 32x11.5 tires on my cj with stock
> gears
> > > (as far as I know).
> > >
> > > also, I have manual brakes in my case.
> > >
> > > also, this is not a new engine so I seriously doubt high compression in
> this
> > > case.
> > >
> > > also, if the distributor was not functioning correctly, then when
> jeepsrus
> > > retarded the timing it would show on the computer wouldn't it. That is,
> set
> > > the timing back 6 degrees it should reflect that change in the computer
> (DRB
> > > II).
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > >
> > > bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F89DBB3.2432E63D@sympatico.ca...
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > So if compression was an issue it would be too high? Too low of
> > > compression
> > > > > wouldn't make it ping would it?
> > > >
> > > > Correct. A 'new' 258 is supposed to have 145 - 150 psi all across.
> If
> > > > you are any higher, you have carbon issues and the ATF treatment might
> > > > be for you, despite the smoke out it will cause.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you determine if the distributor is worn? It looked good
> > > physically
> > > > > when I put it in.
> > > >
> > > > You will need a timing light to check the advance rate. The springs
> on
> > > > the internal timing advance weights can be worn out.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What does it mean by the term "advance"? What's the opposite of
> > > advance?
> > > >
> > > > 'Advance' means you are advancing the spark to 'before top dead
> > > > center'. Retarding it is putting it closer to 0 on the gauge or going
> > > > past to ATDC or after top dead center. Some computer controlled
> > > > vehicles call for this with a timing light and some advance
> connections
> > > > unplugged to test it I think.
> > > >
> > > > 'You' want the spark to catch just in time for all the gas/air mix to
> > > > explode as the piston crests the top of it's travel so you get the
> > > > maximum downward push.
> > > >
> > > > So for different speeds, you want the advance to be higher or lower so
> > > > the electricity signal to the ignition module or points and physical
> > > > moving parts and fuel intake come together at the right spot, the
> 'sweet
> > > > spot'.
> > > >
> > > > If the timing is too far advanced, the explosion kicks back on the
> > > > piston before it crests the top and all the bearings get a physical
> hit
> > > > and the piston itself flaps sideways making a 'rattle' or 'ping' or
> > > > 'knock'.
> > > >
> > > > Low octane gas can start to explode by compression, like diesel does
> so
> > > > you have the gas igniting before the spark plug fires off. Octane is
> > > > added to slow down that burn rate or 'flash point' so the gas waits
> for
> > > > the spark plug.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What is the negative effect of pumping the brake pedel fast?
> > > > > What should be the desired effect when pumping the brake pedel fast?
> > > >
> > > > If you have power brakes, they use a big vacuum diaphragm. If it has
> a
> > > > leak, the idle will go crazy when you pump the brakes hard and fast.
> A
> > > > little rumble and a change in the idle is normal, but a leak won't be
> > > > that, the idle will go way high and take a while to come back down
> > > > stable....
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Someone told me that the advance should top out at 2300 rpm.
> Maybe
> > > > > > check that on yours by marking the slot white so you can see it
> > > through
> > > > > > the fan blades or mark a spot in a measured static advance for
> > > > > > reference.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not clear on this. Is this checked with a timing light?
> > > >
> > > > Yes, you are looking for worn out springs in the advance mechanism
> > > > inside the distributor. This means the timing advances before the
> > > > engine needs it.
> > > >
> > > > If you manually turn the engine so the timing mark lines up and paint
> > > > the v groove in the flywheel with something like typing white out,
> then
> > > > move the flywheel out to the 10 degree mark on the v groove and gauge
> > > > and paint another spot on the flywheel at the 0 point, them turn that
> > > > more so it hits 10, then make another mark makes 30, you will still be
> > > > able to see the marks as they pass the gauge when the timing
> 'advances'.
> > > >
> > > > The idea is to see at what rpm the advance stops moving, no real
> matter
> > > > how 'much' it moves, just what rpm it stops moving.
> > > >
> > > > You do this test with the vacuum advance unplugged and that hose to
> the
> > > > carb blocked at the distributor end.
> > > >
> > > > As I said, it still should keep moving until you hit 2300 rpm 'I think
> > > > that is the right rpm', then stop. Close to that anyway, that is
> where
> > > > I get the best torque and gas mileage on the highway too.
> > > >
> > > > I am thinking yours is topping at 1500 or something lower so the
> advance
> > > > is too soon for the engine's power band need and it will ping like a
> > > > bugger for a bit there on acceleration, then mellow out at speed above
> > > > 2300 rpm where the timing 'should' be topped out.
> > > >
> > > > If that theory is correct, then at 70 mph you shouldn't ping when you
> > > > pull out to pass or climb a long hill. Try that at 55 mph in top gear
> > > > with stock tires and it will ping like crazy.
> > > >
> > > > My engine starts a load ping in top gear at around 1700-1800 rpm or in
> > > > my case 65 mph. I need to run in 4th on the highway at those speeds.
> > > > That gives me 2300 rpm and 100 miles extra per tank of gas running 91
> > > > octane, really good get up and go and no pings ever...
> > > >
> > > > Running right at the 'sweet spot' where the timing comes into sync
> with
> > > > the power needed gives me a nice 19 US mpg or 11 L/100 km. In my case
> > > > with 3.31 gears, that is 65 mph at 2300 rpm in 4th gear turning 33's.
> > > > My speedometer is GPS calibrated right on too so I know I am getting a
> > > > real mileage tag.
> > > >
> > > > 350 miles plus on a tank of gas ain't too shabby in my book. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > And I still have that Carter BBD in there!
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3F89C5E6.BD58CE20@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > What is your compression?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is your distributor maybe worn so it advances too far or too easy?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Someone told me that the advance should top out at 2300 rpm.
> Maybe
> > > > > > check that on yours by marking the slot white so you can see it
> > > through
> > > > > > the fan blades or mark a spot in a measured static advance for
> > > > > > reference.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe someone knows for sure what the top end for advance is for
> sure?
> > > > > > If it tops too fast you can get a ping.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vacuum leak? Maybe try a spray of carb cleaner along the manifold
> > > > > > gasket and TB base plate to see if the idle bumps. Same for
> vacuum
> > > > > > lines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What happens if you pump the brake pedal fast a few times?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something simple is likely to pop up I am thinking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > yeah, I have to get a 4.0L manifold. I have the head and the
> valve
> > > > > cover.
> > > > > > > I need the manifold and a kit for the head bolts (7/16 to 1/2
> inch).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > shouldn't be too much more in parts. mostly labor at this
> point.
> > > > > something
> > > > > > > I didn't really want to do but no way around it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:3F89B926.EED5AABD@***.net...
> > > > > > > > But, your manifold won't fit the 4.0 litre head. Maybe,
> put a
> > > > > > > > sandwich gasket in and loose a compression.
> > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Well I've tried retarding the timing, upping the octane,
> cooler
> > > > > spark
> > > > > > > plugs,
> > > > > > > > > even (at the suggestion of JeepsRUs) tried one of those
> tornado
> > > > > thingys
> > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > which didn't work. Still have pinging. Luckily, JeepsRUs
> > > refunded
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > 57.00 for the tornado thing when it didn't work. So I guess
> the
> > > > > next
> > > > > > > step
> > > > > > > > > is to put the 4.0L head on the bugger. This I had planned
> > > anyway
> > > > > but I
> > > > > > > > > didn't want to be forced into it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > booo hsssss

 

Now you sound like you are on to something....

You are describing something that is letting go under exhaust pressure.

A 'ping' in the engine happens under load. Revving it up in second gear
is not a 'load' situation at all. My CJ7 will pull up to 4500 rpm and
over 50 mph in second. No load involved, just torque and high exhaust
pressure/back pressure.

Now if I put it in 5th gear at 60 mph and try to pass or climb a hill, I
will get a timing 'ping' or knock. Drop back to 4th and the noise is
gone.

If you are putting an engine under 'load', you are asking more of it
than it can give in that gear. I think of it as any time I don't have
an instant effect from my foot on the gas pedal. Like the 1st 1/3 of
the way down the gas pedal movement translates into pull or acceleration
but the last 2/3 of the gas pedal movement has no more effect on the
acceleration.

I then figure I am 'loading' the engine up and that is when it is time
to drop down a gear or I will get engine 'ping'.

For me on the highway with my 3.31 gears and 33" muds running in 4th
gear at 65 mph turning 2300 rpm gives me a gas pedal to acceleration hit
all the way down on the pedal. I get 19 US mpg driving like this.

If I use 5th gear at the same speeds. my rpm are down in the 1700's and
I only have pull in the top 1/3 of the gas pedal, any more and I just
drink gas, I don't accelerate because I am 'loading' the engine or
bogging the engine as most people say.

I am thinking something like those exhaust tubes or the exhaust manifold
is letting go in time to the pulses from the exhaust pressure under high
power or rpm.

Mike

William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Well, I took a closer look at the jeep this evening and I noticed both the
> pulse air openings from the previous setup still were not completely sealed,
> I could feel air coming from them. So I took a pipe wrench and turned them
> up till no air was coming out. At first I thought this fixed the problem
> but no. But now I think it's less consistant than before. That is, I'm
> hearing it stronger in second gear than any of the others. I need to put
> the windows back on the half door and get a better listening environment and
> make sure.
>
> btw, I don't hear the ping when I'm at idle. Does that say anything?
>
> How can I evaluate the crank or the lifters?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F89E869.43EFF048@sympatico.ca...
> > You are chasing a ghost....
> >
> > What you are calling timing ping can't be timing ping unless something
> > is seriously messed up. No head swap is going to fix that....
> >
> > Timing ping only happens under load.....
> >
> > Ummm how are the lifters or how is the crank?
> >
> > Does the 'ping' happen at a certain frequency?
> >
> > What I mean is if you put a timing light on it, does the ping happen in
> > time with the light or is it slower?
> >
> > You can even move the timing light from plug to plug and watch the
> > flashes. If number 3 is in perfect time with the 'ping', you need a
> > bottom end or crank job....
> >
> > If in time with the light, that implies a main or rod bearing, if slower
> > it implies a sticky lifter. An oil additive for sticky lifters can do
> > it wonders then.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mike, thanks for that post. I should mention that I'm getting
> consistant
> > > ping from first through 5th gear no matter what the rpm. I haven't
> found a
> > > sweet spot. The only difference is I can't hear the ping at high speeds
> > > because of the wind and highway noises. I'm certian it's there though.
> > >
> > > What does it say if ping is consistant, load (going up a hill) or no
> load.
> > > I should also mention I'm running 32x11.5 tires on my cj with stock
> gears
> > > (as far as I know).
> > >
> > > also, I have manual brakes in my case.
> > >
> > > also, this is not a new engine so I seriously doubt high compression in
> this
> > > case.
> > >
> > > also, if the distributor was not functioning correctly, then when
> jeepsrus
> > > retarded the timing it would show on the computer wouldn't it. That is,
> set
> > > the timing back 6 degrees it should reflect that change in the computer
> (DRB
> > > II).
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > >
> > > bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F89DBB3.2432E63D@sympatico.ca...
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > So if compression was an issue it would be too high? Too low of
> > > compression
> > > > > wouldn't make it ping would it?
> > > >
> > > > Correct. A 'new' 258 is supposed to have 145 - 150 psi all across.
> If
> > > > you are any higher, you have carbon issues and the ATF treatment might
> > > > be for you, despite the smoke out it will cause.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you determine if the distributor is worn? It looked good
> > > physically
> > > > > when I put it in.
> > > >
> > > > You will need a timing light to check the advance rate. The springs
> on
> > > > the internal timing advance weights can be worn out.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What does it mean by the term "advance"? What's the opposite of
> > > advance?
> > > >
> > > > 'Advance' means you are advancing the spark to 'before top dead
> > > > center'. Retarding it is putting it closer to 0 on the gauge or going
> > > > past to ATDC or after top dead center. Some computer controlled
> > > > vehicles call for this with a timing light and some advance
> connections
> > > > unplugged to test it I think.
> > > >
> > > > 'You' want the spark to catch just in time for all the gas/air mix to
> > > > explode as the piston crests the top of it's travel so you get the
> > > > maximum downward push.
> > > >
> > > > So for different speeds, you want the advance to be higher or lower so
> > > > the electricity signal to the ignition module or points and physical
> > > > moving parts and fuel intake come together at the right spot, the
> 'sweet
> > > > spot'.
> > > >
> > > > If the timing is too far advanced, the explosion kicks back on the
> > > > piston before it crests the top and all the bearings get a physical
> hit
> > > > and the piston itself flaps sideways making a 'rattle' or 'ping' or
> > > > 'knock'.
> > > >
> > > > Low octane gas can start to explode by compression, like diesel does
> so
> > > > you have the gas igniting before the spark plug fires off. Octane is
> > > > added to slow down that burn rate or 'flash point' so the gas waits
> for
> > > > the spark plug.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What is the negative effect of pumping the brake pedel fast?
> > > > > What should be the desired effect when pumping the brake pedel fast?
> > > >
> > > > If you have power brakes, they use a big vacuum diaphragm. If it has
> a
> > > > leak, the idle will go crazy when you pump the brakes hard and fast.
> A
> > > > little rumble and a change in the idle is normal, but a leak won't be
> > > > that, the idle will go way high and take a while to come back down
> > > > stable....
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Someone told me that the advance should top out at 2300 rpm.
> Maybe
> > > > > > check that on yours by marking the slot white so you can see it
> > > through
> > > > > > the fan blades or mark a spot in a measured static advance for
> > > > > > reference.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not clear on this. Is this checked with a timing light?
> > > >
> > > > Yes, you are looking for worn out springs in the advance mechanism
> > > > inside the distributor. This means the timing advances before the
> > > > engine needs it.
> > > >
> > > > If you manually turn the engine so the timing mark lines up and paint
> > > > the v groove in the flywheel with something like typing white out,
> then
> > > > move the flywheel out to the 10 degree mark on the v groove and gauge
> > > > and paint another spot on the flywheel at the 0 point, them turn that
> > > > more so it hits 10, then make another mark makes 30, you will still be
> > > > able to see the marks as they pass the gauge when the timing
> 'advances'.
> > > >
> > > > The idea is to see at what rpm the advance stops moving, no real
> matter
> > > > how 'much' it moves, just what rpm it stops moving.
> > > >
> > > > You do this test with the vacuum advance unplugged and that hose to
> the
> > > > carb blocked at the distributor end.
> > > >
> > > > As I said, it still should keep moving until you hit 2300 rpm 'I think
> > > > that is the right rpm', then stop. Close to that anyway, that is
> where
> > > > I get the best torque and gas mileage on the highway too.
> > > >
> > > > I am thinking yours is topping at 1500 or something lower so the
> advance
> > > > is too soon for the engine's power band need and it will ping like a
> > > > bugger for a bit there on acceleration, then mellow out at speed above
> > > > 2300 rpm where the timing 'should' be topped out.
> > > >
> > > > If that theory is correct, then at 70 mph you shouldn't ping when you
> > > > pull out to pass or climb a long hill. Try that at 55 mph in top gear
> > > > with stock tires and it will ping like crazy.
> > > >
> > > > My engine starts a load ping in top gear at around 1700-1800 rpm or in
> > > > my case 65 mph. I need to run in 4th on the highway at those speeds.
> > > > That gives me 2300 rpm and 100 miles extra per tank of gas running 91
> > > > octane, really good get up and go and no pings ever...
> > > >
> > > > Running right at the 'sweet spot' where the timing comes into sync
> with
> > > > the power needed gives me a nice 19 US mpg or 11 L/100 km. In my case
> > > > with 3.31 gears, that is 65 mph at 2300 rpm in 4th gear turning 33's.
> > > > My speedometer is GPS calibrated right on too so I know I am getting a
> > > > real mileage tag.
> > > >
> > > > 350 miles plus on a tank of gas ain't too shabby in my book. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > And I still have that Carter BBD in there!
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3F89C5E6.BD58CE20@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > What is your compression?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is your distributor maybe worn so it advances too far or too easy?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Someone told me that the advance should top out at 2300 rpm.
> Maybe
> > > > > > check that on yours by marking the slot white so you can see it
> > > through
> > > > > > the fan blades or mark a spot in a measured static advance for
> > > > > > reference.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe someone knows for sure what the top end for advance is for
> sure?
> > > > > > If it tops too fast you can get a ping.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vacuum leak? Maybe try a spray of carb cleaner along the manifold
> > > > > > gasket and TB base plate to see if the idle bumps. Same for
> vacuum
> > > > > > lines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What happens if you pump the brake pedal fast a few times?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something simple is likely to pop up I am thinking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > yeah, I have to get a 4.0L manifold. I have the head and the
> valve
> > > > > cover.
> > > > > > > I need the manifold and a kit for the head bolts (7/16 to 1/2
> inch).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > shouldn't be too much more in parts. mostly labor at this
> point.
> > > > > something
> > > > > > > I didn't really want to do but no way around it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:3F89B926.EED5AABD@***.net...
> > > > > > > > But, your manifold won't fit the 4.0 litre head. Maybe,
> put a
> > > > > > > > sandwich gasket in and loose a compression.
> > > > > > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > > > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Well I've tried retarding the timing, upping the octane,
> cooler
> > > > > spark
> > > > > > > plugs,
> > > > > > > > > even (at the suggestion of JeepsRUs) tried one of those
> tornado
> > > > > thingys
> > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > which didn't work. Still have pinging. Luckily, JeepsRUs
> > > refunded
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > 57.00 for the tornado thing when it didn't work. So I guess
> the
> > > > > next
> > > > > > > step
> > > > > > > > > is to put the 4.0L head on the bugger. This I had planned
> > > anyway
> > > > > but I
> > > > > > > > > didn't want to be forced into it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > booo hsssss