Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

Similar to welding on a suitable nut. Key is to use the heat of the weld
to help get it started. Weld and crank on it as soon as the red heat
disappears.

DougW wrote:

> Lon wrote:
>
>>Tungsten carbide MIGHT drill it, a diamond bit should do it, use
>>plenty of lube.
>
>
> I always start off with a diamond drill in a dremmel. That way
> it's fairly easy to get it centered for the next larger drill.
>
> An old trick used on rusty farm equipment is to drill a hole just
> the size of the stud in a long piece of bar stock. Then slide that
> hole over the bolt and weld it on. Then use the bar stock as the
> wrench and turn the bolt out.
>

Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

Similar to welding on a suitable nut. Key is to use the heat of the weld
to help get it started. Weld and crank on it as soon as the red heat
disappears.

DougW wrote:

> Lon wrote:
>
>>Tungsten carbide MIGHT drill it, a diamond bit should do it, use
>>plenty of lube.
>
>
> I always start off with a diamond drill in a dremmel. That way
> it's fairly easy to get it centered for the next larger drill.
>
> An old trick used on rusty farm equipment is to drill a hole just
> the size of the stud in a long piece of bar stock. Then slide that
> hole over the bolt and weld it on. Then use the bar stock as the
> wrench and turn the bolt out.
>

Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

Similar to welding on a suitable nut. Key is to use the heat of the weld
to help get it started. Weld and crank on it as soon as the red heat
disappears.

DougW wrote:

> Lon wrote:
>
>>Tungsten carbide MIGHT drill it, a diamond bit should do it, use
>>plenty of lube.
>
>
> I always start off with a diamond drill in a dremmel. That way
> it's fairly easy to get it centered for the next larger drill.
>
> An old trick used on rusty farm equipment is to drill a hole just
> the size of the stud in a long piece of bar stock. Then slide that
> hole over the bolt and weld it on. Then use the bar stock as the
> wrench and turn the bolt out.
>

Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

i use a spring loaded center punch to get center, then i start a drill 1/8 inch just
to get a good drill center started. then i switch to a reverse drill bit and 9 out of
10 times it will bac the bolt out and comes out with the drill or bust it loose and a
use a goob of groil oil soaking it good then if it is still stuburn then i pound in
a extractor then i apply heat till i see bubbles in the oil at the threads then i know
it's warm enough to be loose and it comes out

Mike Romain wrote:

> I try a small cold chisel or strong mini screwdriver and try to tap on
> one of the bit's arms to get it moving. I have spent a couple hours
> doing them, but have managed.
>
> Other than that, I drill a small hole down one V between the arms and
> try tapping it like above. I retap if I have room or hope the 1/8 of
> a circle chunk out of the hole won't affect the new bolt if loctited
> in....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Arold \"Al\" Green wrote:
> >
> > A bit off topic, but related. I have a broken tap in a similar
> > situation. Nothing to grab and a tap is so hard it will be a bitch to
> > drill. Any thoughts?
> > Al
> >
> > "Carl" <carlsaiyed@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Heat with a torch or start drilling.
> > >
> > >Carl
> > >
> > >"Clint" <cneufeld@mysocks.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > >news:SHklh.540934$R63.454264@pd7urf1no...
> > >> So far, bolts 2, Clint 0...
> > >>
> > >> I've tried the penetrating oil, beating my fustrations on it (gently, so I
> > >> don't damage anything worse), trying to grind off some flat spots for the
> > >> vice grips to grab. No joy so far.
> > >>
> > >> Next up:
> > >> Has anyone tried these Irwin devices before?
> > >> http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/...rwinProd100519
> > >> I've tried a couple of places, but no luck finding some of the other ones
> > >> mentioned. I'll do some more looking tomorrow, though.
> > >>
> > >> I'm concerned about trying to drill into the end of the broken off bolts,
> > >> mainly because I'm not to confident in my straight-line drilling abilities
> > >> (especially in metal), and the vertical support bar on the front grill is
> > >> right in line with the two bolts I have to drill, so I'm not sure I'm even
> > >> going to be able to get a drill in there.
> > >>
> > >> I haven't tried the torch heat/cool cycle yet, mainly because I'm
> > >> concerned about an engine fire. I should have a fire extinguisher in the
> > >> garage in any case, but I don't currently. And with penetrating and
> > >> engine oil all over the place...
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for all the helpful advice so far.
> > >>
> > >> Clint
> > >>
> > >> "Clint" <cneufeld@mysocks.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > >> news:UJCkh.535564$R63.397938@pd7urf1no...
> > >>> So I'm elbows-deep in pulling out my radiator and water pump from my '88
> > >>> Jeep Comanche (4.0l, if that matters), and as I figured was likely, two
> > >>> bolt heads broke off. I've got pictures, if you care to see
> > >>> (http://members.shaw.ca/cneufeld/Imag...ck005Small.jpg). They're
> > >>> broken off just under the head, so there's about 1/2" of threaded
> > >>> material to grab, assuming that doesn't break off.
> > >>>
> > >>> What's the best method you've found to deal with these? Do any of them
> > >>> work better than others? If I've got to drill a hole in them, how do you
> > >>> get the hole started with an uneven surface like the broken off head?
> > >>> Center-punch? That'll be fun to get in there with a hammer...
> > >>>
> > >>> So far, I figure I'm about 3 hours into the job, and I've got all the old
> > >>> parts out. The old water pump actually looks like it's in good shaped
> > >>> (vanes all there, looking pretty new), but it was leaking. There was no
> > >>> sign of anything other than the paper gasket; should I be using the RTV
> > >>> gasket gunk as well? Somehow, I've got to get into the block heater and
> > >>> replace it as well. At least with the water pump out, I can see in there
> > >>> a bit.
> > >>>
> > >>> Clint
> > >>
> > >
> > __
> > Arold "Al" Green

Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

i use a spring loaded center punch to get center, then i start a drill 1/8 inch just
to get a good drill center started. then i switch to a reverse drill bit and 9 out of
10 times it will bac the bolt out and comes out with the drill or bust it loose and a
use a goob of groil oil soaking it good then if it is still stuburn then i pound in
a extractor then i apply heat till i see bubbles in the oil at the threads then i know
it's warm enough to be loose and it comes out

Mike Romain wrote:

> I try a small cold chisel or strong mini screwdriver and try to tap on
> one of the bit's arms to get it moving. I have spent a couple hours
> doing them, but have managed.
>
> Other than that, I drill a small hole down one V between the arms and
> try tapping it like above. I retap if I have room or hope the 1/8 of
> a circle chunk out of the hole won't affect the new bolt if loctited
> in....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Arold \"Al\" Green wrote:
> >
> > A bit off topic, but related. I have a broken tap in a similar
> > situation. Nothing to grab and a tap is so hard it will be a bitch to
> > drill. Any thoughts?
> > Al
> >
> > "Carl" <carlsaiyed@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Heat with a torch or start drilling.
> > >
> > >Carl
> > >
> > >"Clint" <cneufeld@mysocks.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > >news:SHklh.540934$R63.454264@pd7urf1no...
> > >> So far, bolts 2, Clint 0...
> > >>
> > >> I've tried the penetrating oil, beating my fustrations on it (gently, so I
> > >> don't damage anything worse), trying to grind off some flat spots for the
> > >> vice grips to grab. No joy so far.
> > >>
> > >> Next up:
> > >> Has anyone tried these Irwin devices before?
> > >> http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/...rwinProd100519
> > >> I've tried a couple of places, but no luck finding some of the other ones
> > >> mentioned. I'll do some more looking tomorrow, though.
> > >>
> > >> I'm concerned about trying to drill into the end of the broken off bolts,
> > >> mainly because I'm not to confident in my straight-line drilling abilities
> > >> (especially in metal), and the vertical support bar on the front grill is
> > >> right in line with the two bolts I have to drill, so I'm not sure I'm even
> > >> going to be able to get a drill in there.
> > >>
> > >> I haven't tried the torch heat/cool cycle yet, mainly because I'm
> > >> concerned about an engine fire. I should have a fire extinguisher in the
> > >> garage in any case, but I don't currently. And with penetrating and
> > >> engine oil all over the place...
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for all the helpful advice so far.
> > >>
> > >> Clint
> > >>
> > >> "Clint" <cneufeld@mysocks.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > >> news:UJCkh.535564$R63.397938@pd7urf1no...
> > >>> So I'm elbows-deep in pulling out my radiator and water pump from my '88
> > >>> Jeep Comanche (4.0l, if that matters), and as I figured was likely, two
> > >>> bolt heads broke off. I've got pictures, if you care to see
> > >>> (http://members.shaw.ca/cneufeld/Imag...ck005Small.jpg). They're
> > >>> broken off just under the head, so there's about 1/2" of threaded
> > >>> material to grab, assuming that doesn't break off.
> > >>>
> > >>> What's the best method you've found to deal with these? Do any of them
> > >>> work better than others? If I've got to drill a hole in them, how do you
> > >>> get the hole started with an uneven surface like the broken off head?
> > >>> Center-punch? That'll be fun to get in there with a hammer...
> > >>>
> > >>> So far, I figure I'm about 3 hours into the job, and I've got all the old
> > >>> parts out. The old water pump actually looks like it's in good shaped
> > >>> (vanes all there, looking pretty new), but it was leaking. There was no
> > >>> sign of anything other than the paper gasket; should I be using the RTV
> > >>> gasket gunk as well? Somehow, I've got to get into the block heater and
> > >>> replace it as well. At least with the water pump out, I can see in there
> > >>> a bit.
> > >>>
> > >>> Clint
> > >>
> > >
> > __
> > Arold "Al" Green

Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

i use a spring loaded center punch to get center, then i start a drill 1/8 inch just
to get a good drill center started. then i switch to a reverse drill bit and 9 out of
10 times it will bac the bolt out and comes out with the drill or bust it loose and a
use a goob of groil oil soaking it good then if it is still stuburn then i pound in
a extractor then i apply heat till i see bubbles in the oil at the threads then i know
it's warm enough to be loose and it comes out

Mike Romain wrote:

> I try a small cold chisel or strong mini screwdriver and try to tap on
> one of the bit's arms to get it moving. I have spent a couple hours
> doing them, but have managed.
>
> Other than that, I drill a small hole down one V between the arms and
> try tapping it like above. I retap if I have room or hope the 1/8 of
> a circle chunk out of the hole won't affect the new bolt if loctited
> in....
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Arold \"Al\" Green wrote:
> >
> > A bit off topic, but related. I have a broken tap in a similar
> > situation. Nothing to grab and a tap is so hard it will be a bitch to
> > drill. Any thoughts?
> > Al
> >
> > "Carl" <carlsaiyed@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Heat with a torch or start drilling.
> > >
> > >Carl
> > >
> > >"Clint" <cneufeld@mysocks.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > >news:SHklh.540934$R63.454264@pd7urf1no...
> > >> So far, bolts 2, Clint 0...
> > >>
> > >> I've tried the penetrating oil, beating my fustrations on it (gently, so I
> > >> don't damage anything worse), trying to grind off some flat spots for the
> > >> vice grips to grab. No joy so far.
> > >>
> > >> Next up:
> > >> Has anyone tried these Irwin devices before?
> > >> http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/...rwinProd100519
> > >> I've tried a couple of places, but no luck finding some of the other ones
> > >> mentioned. I'll do some more looking tomorrow, though.
> > >>
> > >> I'm concerned about trying to drill into the end of the broken off bolts,
> > >> mainly because I'm not to confident in my straight-line drilling abilities
> > >> (especially in metal), and the vertical support bar on the front grill is
> > >> right in line with the two bolts I have to drill, so I'm not sure I'm even
> > >> going to be able to get a drill in there.
> > >>
> > >> I haven't tried the torch heat/cool cycle yet, mainly because I'm
> > >> concerned about an engine fire. I should have a fire extinguisher in the
> > >> garage in any case, but I don't currently. And with penetrating and
> > >> engine oil all over the place...
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for all the helpful advice so far.
> > >>
> > >> Clint
> > >>
> > >> "Clint" <cneufeld@mysocks.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > >> news:UJCkh.535564$R63.397938@pd7urf1no...
> > >>> So I'm elbows-deep in pulling out my radiator and water pump from my '88
> > >>> Jeep Comanche (4.0l, if that matters), and as I figured was likely, two
> > >>> bolt heads broke off. I've got pictures, if you care to see
> > >>> (http://members.shaw.ca/cneufeld/Imag...ck005Small.jpg). They're
> > >>> broken off just under the head, so there's about 1/2" of threaded
> > >>> material to grab, assuming that doesn't break off.
> > >>>
> > >>> What's the best method you've found to deal with these? Do any of them
> > >>> work better than others? If I've got to drill a hole in them, how do you
> > >>> get the hole started with an uneven surface like the broken off head?
> > >>> Center-punch? That'll be fun to get in there with a hammer...
> > >>>
> > >>> So far, I figure I'm about 3 hours into the job, and I've got all the old
> > >>> parts out. The old water pump actually looks like it's in good shaped
> > >>> (vanes all there, looking pretty new), but it was leaking. There was no
> > >>> sign of anything other than the paper gasket; should I be using the RTV
> > >>> gasket gunk as well? Somehow, I've got to get into the block heater and
> > >>> replace it as well. At least with the water pump out, I can see in there
> > >>> a bit.
> > >>>
> > >>> Clint
> > >>
> > >
> > __
> > Arold "Al" Green

Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 03:36:47 GMT, RoyJ <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote
in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys:

>If you have a welder, take a suitable nut, drill out the threads,
>counter sink the end, weld the nut onto the bolt. Use LOTS of heat on
>the weld. As soon as the red heat goes away, try turning the bolt. If
>you snap the weld, just repeat. The differential expansion plus the new
>nut is often enough to get it to pop loose.

When I used to work in a welding shop, that's the way we extracted
numerous broken bolts. We didn't spend time drilling out the threads
or countersinking the nut to be welded onto the broken stud.

Just find a nut large enough to slip over the broken bolt and weld it
on. As previously mentioned, the new nut and added heat are usually
enough to free up the broken bolt.

For broken bolts with just a small nub protruding, a nut placed over
it and welded on with a wire welder (which is what we always used
anyway) usually worked. If the weld broke and the nut snapped off,
we'd just do it again until the weld and the heat generated were
sufficient to get the bolt out. Also, a number of little button welds
can be applied to the nub until there is enough added surface to
finally weld a nut onto it.

Looking at the photo in this situation, there should be no problem
welding on a nut large enough to slip right over the broken bolt
shaft.


--
Stuff Up the Cracks

Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 03:36:47 GMT, RoyJ <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote
in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys:

>If you have a welder, take a suitable nut, drill out the threads,
>counter sink the end, weld the nut onto the bolt. Use LOTS of heat on
>the weld. As soon as the red heat goes away, try turning the bolt. If
>you snap the weld, just repeat. The differential expansion plus the new
>nut is often enough to get it to pop loose.

When I used to work in a welding shop, that's the way we extracted
numerous broken bolts. We didn't spend time drilling out the threads
or countersinking the nut to be welded onto the broken stud.

Just find a nut large enough to slip over the broken bolt and weld it
on. As previously mentioned, the new nut and added heat are usually
enough to free up the broken bolt.

For broken bolts with just a small nub protruding, a nut placed over
it and welded on with a wire welder (which is what we always used
anyway) usually worked. If the weld broke and the nut snapped off,
we'd just do it again until the weld and the heat generated were
sufficient to get the bolt out. Also, a number of little button welds
can be applied to the nub until there is enough added surface to
finally weld a nut onto it.

Looking at the photo in this situation, there should be no problem
welding on a nut large enough to slip right over the broken bolt
shaft.


--
Stuff Up the Cracks

Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 03:36:47 GMT, RoyJ <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote
in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys:

>If you have a welder, take a suitable nut, drill out the threads,
>counter sink the end, weld the nut onto the bolt. Use LOTS of heat on
>the weld. As soon as the red heat goes away, try turning the bolt. If
>you snap the weld, just repeat. The differential expansion plus the new
>nut is often enough to get it to pop loose.

When I used to work in a welding shop, that's the way we extracted
numerous broken bolts. We didn't spend time drilling out the threads
or countersinking the nut to be welded onto the broken stud.

Just find a nut large enough to slip over the broken bolt and weld it
on. As previously mentioned, the new nut and added heat are usually
enough to free up the broken bolt.

For broken bolts with just a small nub protruding, a nut placed over
it and welded on with a wire welder (which is what we always used
anyway) usually worked. If the weld broke and the nut snapped off,
we'd just do it again until the weld and the heat generated were
sufficient to get the bolt out. Also, a number of little button welds
can be applied to the nub until there is enough added surface to
finally weld a nut onto it.

Looking at the photo in this situation, there should be no problem
welding on a nut large enough to slip right over the broken bolt
shaft.


--
Stuff Up the Cracks

Re: Best method for extracting bolts with broken off heads...
 

Well, it must be time for a progress report...

First, I tried the torch, followed by an extractor. I managed to snap the
extractor off in the bolt. *sigh* I think my neighbor jinxed me on that
one, cuz he warned me about it.

I was able to cut off the bolt and get the remains of the extractor out, so
no real harm done, anyway. I followed that up with a titanium coated bit,
to try drilling it out. I think I should have used a beefier (or better)
bit, as the bit busted off inside. *sigh again*

So I picked up some better and bigger bits, and went at it again tonight.
First, I had to remove the front of the Jeep, so I could get my drill in
there. Turns out to be pretty easy (4 bolts, hidden behind the turn
signals, in case you need to know), although I'm a little nervous about
getting everything lined up again (assuming I get to put it back together
some time). Gives me lots more room to work, anyway.

I got the bottom bolt drilled out pretty quick, and I THINK I'll be ok with
the threads. I'll have to wait and see on that one; the remains of the bolt
showed just the very end threads to be touched by the drill bit.. But the
top bolt is still stuck tight, and the real problem now is the broken drill
bit in it is keeping me from drilling it out.

I saw someone else with a stuck tap in this same thread, and the suggestion
was a carbide bit, an A/C drill, and a case of beer (or something like
that). I think I'll pass on the beer (too many memories of New Year's Eve),
but I'll break out my old corded drill and pick up a few more bits to try
drilling it out.

Hey, at least I won ONE fight tonight. :)

Clint

"Clint" <cneufeld@mysocks.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:UJCkh.535564$R63.397938@pd7urf1no...
> So I'm elbows-deep in pulling out my radiator and water pump from my '88
> Jeep Comanche (4.0l, if that matters), and as I figured was likely, two
> bolt heads broke off. I've got pictures, if you care to see
> (http://members.shaw.ca/cneufeld/Imag...ck005Small.jpg). They're
> broken off just under the head, so there's about 1/2" of threaded material
> to grab, assuming that doesn't break off.
>
> What's the best method you've found to deal with these? Do any of them
> work better than others? If I've got to drill a hole in them, how do you
> get the hole started with an uneven surface like the broken off head?
> Center-punch? That'll be fun to get in there with a hammer...
>
> So far, I figure I'm about 3 hours into the job, and I've got all the old
> parts out. The old water pump actually looks like it's in good shaped
> (vanes all there, looking pretty new), but it was leaking. There was no
> sign of anything other than the paper gasket; should I be using the RTV
> gasket gunk as well? Somehow, I've got to get into the block heater and
> replace it as well. At least with the water pump out, I can see in there
> a bit.
>
> Clint