Michael White

I was think more edge-on hits. For instance, a couple of weeks ago I backed
into a stump. The stump was too low to be caught by the bumper, but too
high to fit past the skidplate. I hit the transmission skid plate pretty
hard, but there was no visible damage to the skid plate, nor any of the
components it was protecting. Most of the composites I've seen don't stand
too well for being hit edge on without at least chipping a bit. If you do
find one, turn it on end and slam it with, say, a three pound hammer or
iron pipe. I'm not being sarcastic - I'd like to know the results.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 10:41 pm:

> if it bends, it is not going to protect, so it doesn't matter if it bends
> or
> shatters. for impact (as opposite to slowly load it), composite absorbs
> more energy than steel does, and you don't need to worry about rust
> anymore.
>
> anyone knows where to get dimensions of skid plate? I know you can crawl
> underneath, but if there is some data around ready to use, I would save my
> energy. since skid plate is basically plates, very easy to make once I
> get dimension.
>
> "Michael White" <michael12@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:mn27d.3363$Yr.1382@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>> hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 07:17 pm:
>>
>> > Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
>> > claim they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my
>> > knowledge. but I did not find anyone making such thing for SUV. anyone
>> > has seen one somewhere?
>> >
>> > btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
>> > carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
>> > compared with steels at similar weight.
>>
>> The only problem I can see is that the metal will bend while the compsite
>> will shatter. I would think this would be especially true on edges,
>> where the compsite may chip away.
>> --
>> Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
>> fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

Michael White

I was think more edge-on hits. For instance, a couple of weeks ago I backed
into a stump. The stump was too low to be caught by the bumper, but too
high to fit past the skidplate. I hit the transmission skid plate pretty
hard, but there was no visible damage to the skid plate, nor any of the
components it was protecting. Most of the composites I've seen don't stand
too well for being hit edge on without at least chipping a bit. If you do
find one, turn it on end and slam it with, say, a three pound hammer or
iron pipe. I'm not being sarcastic - I'd like to know the results.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 10:41 pm:

> if it bends, it is not going to protect, so it doesn't matter if it bends
> or
> shatters. for impact (as opposite to slowly load it), composite absorbs
> more energy than steel does, and you don't need to worry about rust
> anymore.
>
> anyone knows where to get dimensions of skid plate? I know you can crawl
> underneath, but if there is some data around ready to use, I would save my
> energy. since skid plate is basically plates, very easy to make once I
> get dimension.
>
> "Michael White" <michael12@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:mn27d.3363$Yr.1382@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>> hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 07:17 pm:
>>
>> > Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
>> > claim they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my
>> > knowledge. but I did not find anyone making such thing for SUV. anyone
>> > has seen one somewhere?
>> >
>> > btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
>> > carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
>> > compared with steels at similar weight.
>>
>> The only problem I can see is that the metal will bend while the compsite
>> will shatter. I would think this would be especially true on edges,
>> where the compsite may chip away.
>> --
>> Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
>> fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

Michael White

I was think more edge-on hits. For instance, a couple of weeks ago I backed
into a stump. The stump was too low to be caught by the bumper, but too
high to fit past the skidplate. I hit the transmission skid plate pretty
hard, but there was no visible damage to the skid plate, nor any of the
components it was protecting. Most of the composites I've seen don't stand
too well for being hit edge on without at least chipping a bit. If you do
find one, turn it on end and slam it with, say, a three pound hammer or
iron pipe. I'm not being sarcastic - I'd like to know the results.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 10:41 pm:

> if it bends, it is not going to protect, so it doesn't matter if it bends
> or
> shatters. for impact (as opposite to slowly load it), composite absorbs
> more energy than steel does, and you don't need to worry about rust
> anymore.
>
> anyone knows where to get dimensions of skid plate? I know you can crawl
> underneath, but if there is some data around ready to use, I would save my
> energy. since skid plate is basically plates, very easy to make once I
> get dimension.
>
> "Michael White" <michael12@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:mn27d.3363$Yr.1382@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>> hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 07:17 pm:
>>
>> > Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
>> > claim they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my
>> > knowledge. but I did not find anyone making such thing for SUV. anyone
>> > has seen one somewhere?
>> >
>> > btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
>> > carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
>> > compared with steels at similar weight.
>>
>> The only problem I can see is that the metal will bend while the compsite
>> will shatter. I would think this would be especially true on edges,
>> where the compsite may chip away.
>> --
>> Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
>> fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

Rusted

When you say composite I think of srtong for their intended application, but
not very good with impact/scrape that a skid plate would go through. Many
of the off-road competitors use plastic skid plates and they seem to work
very well. Here is a link to lots of technical info on skid plates made
from various forms of plastic

http://tinyurl.com/3qqs9




"hh" <pine@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:cji7ml$lpp$1@news.tamu.edu...
> Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
> claim
> they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my knowledge. but I
> did
> not find anyone making such thing for SUV. anyone has seen one somewhere?
>
> btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
> carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
> compared with steels at similar weight.
>
>

Rusted

When you say composite I think of srtong for their intended application, but
not very good with impact/scrape that a skid plate would go through. Many
of the off-road competitors use plastic skid plates and they seem to work
very well. Here is a link to lots of technical info on skid plates made
from various forms of plastic

http://tinyurl.com/3qqs9




"hh" <pine@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:cji7ml$lpp$1@news.tamu.edu...
> Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
> claim
> they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my knowledge. but I
> did
> not find anyone making such thing for SUV. anyone has seen one somewhere?
>
> btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
> carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
> compared with steels at similar weight.
>
>

Rusted

When you say composite I think of srtong for their intended application, but
not very good with impact/scrape that a skid plate would go through. Many
of the off-road competitors use plastic skid plates and they seem to work
very well. Here is a link to lots of technical info on skid plates made
from various forms of plastic

http://tinyurl.com/3qqs9




"hh" <pine@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:cji7ml$lpp$1@news.tamu.edu...
> Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
> claim
> they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my knowledge. but I
> did
> not find anyone making such thing for SUV. anyone has seen one somewhere?
>
> btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
> carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
> compared with steels at similar weight.
>
>

hh

there are many kinds of composites, not everything that is plastic and
stiff. some are much stronger than steel, some weaker, at similar weight. If
any hit that did not bend your steel panel, I can easily make on composite
panel that will not take any damage from the same hit, all at much lower
weight. and if you get a scratch, you don't need to repaint it. doesn't
matter if it is on corner or not.
bascially, what happens to metal is that it starts to bend (plastic
deformation technically), and they break, for composite, it does not bend
(or plastic deformation) before break, but composite can withstand much
higher load at break. if hit on corner, steel bends, but that already is
counted as failure and won't do anything good anymore.

at high production volume, it is cheaper to use steel, but low volume,
cheaper to make composite. that is why you see composite in boats and
planes, but not that often in cars.

btw, chrysler has been a long time advocator for composite. it has a all
composite compact sedan made fifteen years ago (not that super $70k corvette
GM makes, but cheap ordinary car), although only experimental.

well, anyone has info on geometry of skid plate? I don't want to lift my zj
up to figure out dimension.


"Michael White" <michael12@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:CI57d.14434$gG4.11050@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> I was think more edge-on hits. For instance, a couple of weeks ago I
backed
> into a stump. The stump was too low to be caught by the bumper, but too
> high to fit past the skidplate. I hit the transmission skid plate pretty
> hard, but there was no visible damage to the skid plate, nor any of the
> components it was protecting. Most of the composites I've seen don't
stand
> too well for being hit edge on without at least chipping a bit. If you do
> find one, turn it on end and slam it with, say, a three pound hammer or
> iron pipe. I'm not being sarcastic - I'd like to know the results.
> --
> Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
> fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891
>
> hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 10:41 pm:
>
> > if it bends, it is not going to protect, so it doesn't matter if it
bends
> > or
> > shatters. for impact (as opposite to slowly load it), composite absorbs
> > more energy than steel does, and you don't need to worry about rust
> > anymore.
> >
> > anyone knows where to get dimensions of skid plate? I know you can crawl
> > underneath, but if there is some data around ready to use, I would save
my
> > energy. since skid plate is basically plates, very easy to make once I
> > get dimension.
> >
> > "Michael White" <michael12@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:mn27d.3363$Yr.1382@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
> >> hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 07:17 pm:
> >>
> >> > Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
> >> > claim they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my
> >> > knowledge. but I did not find anyone making such thing for SUV.
anyone
> >> > has seen one somewhere?
> >> >
> >> > btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
> >> > carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
> >> > compared with steels at similar weight.
> >>
> >> The only problem I can see is that the metal will bend while the
compsite
> >> will shatter. I would think this would be especially true on edges,
> >> where the compsite may chip away.
> >> --
> >> Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is
to
> >> fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer,
1891
>
>

hh

there are many kinds of composites, not everything that is plastic and
stiff. some are much stronger than steel, some weaker, at similar weight. If
any hit that did not bend your steel panel, I can easily make on composite
panel that will not take any damage from the same hit, all at much lower
weight. and if you get a scratch, you don't need to repaint it. doesn't
matter if it is on corner or not.
bascially, what happens to metal is that it starts to bend (plastic
deformation technically), and they break, for composite, it does not bend
(or plastic deformation) before break, but composite can withstand much
higher load at break. if hit on corner, steel bends, but that already is
counted as failure and won't do anything good anymore.

at high production volume, it is cheaper to use steel, but low volume,
cheaper to make composite. that is why you see composite in boats and
planes, but not that often in cars.

btw, chrysler has been a long time advocator for composite. it has a all
composite compact sedan made fifteen years ago (not that super $70k corvette
GM makes, but cheap ordinary car), although only experimental.

well, anyone has info on geometry of skid plate? I don't want to lift my zj
up to figure out dimension.


"Michael White" <michael12@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:CI57d.14434$gG4.11050@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> I was think more edge-on hits. For instance, a couple of weeks ago I
backed
> into a stump. The stump was too low to be caught by the bumper, but too
> high to fit past the skidplate. I hit the transmission skid plate pretty
> hard, but there was no visible damage to the skid plate, nor any of the
> components it was protecting. Most of the composites I've seen don't
stand
> too well for being hit edge on without at least chipping a bit. If you do
> find one, turn it on end and slam it with, say, a three pound hammer or
> iron pipe. I'm not being sarcastic - I'd like to know the results.
> --
> Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
> fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891
>
> hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 10:41 pm:
>
> > if it bends, it is not going to protect, so it doesn't matter if it
bends
> > or
> > shatters. for impact (as opposite to slowly load it), composite absorbs
> > more energy than steel does, and you don't need to worry about rust
> > anymore.
> >
> > anyone knows where to get dimensions of skid plate? I know you can crawl
> > underneath, but if there is some data around ready to use, I would save
my
> > energy. since skid plate is basically plates, very easy to make once I
> > get dimension.
> >
> > "Michael White" <michael12@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:mn27d.3363$Yr.1382@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
> >> hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 07:17 pm:
> >>
> >> > Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
> >> > claim they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my
> >> > knowledge. but I did not find anyone making such thing for SUV.
anyone
> >> > has seen one somewhere?
> >> >
> >> > btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
> >> > carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
> >> > compared with steels at similar weight.
> >>
> >> The only problem I can see is that the metal will bend while the
compsite
> >> will shatter. I would think this would be especially true on edges,
> >> where the compsite may chip away.
> >> --
> >> Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is
to
> >> fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer,
1891
>
>

hh

there are many kinds of composites, not everything that is plastic and
stiff. some are much stronger than steel, some weaker, at similar weight. If
any hit that did not bend your steel panel, I can easily make on composite
panel that will not take any damage from the same hit, all at much lower
weight. and if you get a scratch, you don't need to repaint it. doesn't
matter if it is on corner or not.
bascially, what happens to metal is that it starts to bend (plastic
deformation technically), and they break, for composite, it does not bend
(or plastic deformation) before break, but composite can withstand much
higher load at break. if hit on corner, steel bends, but that already is
counted as failure and won't do anything good anymore.

at high production volume, it is cheaper to use steel, but low volume,
cheaper to make composite. that is why you see composite in boats and
planes, but not that often in cars.

btw, chrysler has been a long time advocator for composite. it has a all
composite compact sedan made fifteen years ago (not that super $70k corvette
GM makes, but cheap ordinary car), although only experimental.

well, anyone has info on geometry of skid plate? I don't want to lift my zj
up to figure out dimension.


"Michael White" <michael12@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:CI57d.14434$gG4.11050@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> I was think more edge-on hits. For instance, a couple of weeks ago I
backed
> into a stump. The stump was too low to be caught by the bumper, but too
> high to fit past the skidplate. I hit the transmission skid plate pretty
> hard, but there was no visible damage to the skid plate, nor any of the
> components it was protecting. Most of the composites I've seen don't
stand
> too well for being hit edge on without at least chipping a bit. If you do
> find one, turn it on end and slam it with, say, a three pound hammer or
> iron pipe. I'm not being sarcastic - I'd like to know the results.
> --
> Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
> fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891
>
> hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 10:41 pm:
>
> > if it bends, it is not going to protect, so it doesn't matter if it
bends
> > or
> > shatters. for impact (as opposite to slowly load it), composite absorbs
> > more energy than steel does, and you don't need to worry about rust
> > anymore.
> >
> > anyone knows where to get dimensions of skid plate? I know you can crawl
> > underneath, but if there is some data around ready to use, I would save
my
> > energy. since skid plate is basically plates, very easy to make once I
> > get dimension.
> >
> > "Michael White" <michael12@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:mn27d.3363$Yr.1382@newsread3.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
> >> hh (pine@myrealbox.com) wrote on Thursday 30 September 2004 07:17 pm:
> >>
> >> > Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
> >> > claim they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my
> >> > knowledge. but I did not find anyone making such thing for SUV.
anyone
> >> > has seen one somewhere?
> >> >
> >> > btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
> >> > carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
> >> > compared with steels at similar weight.
> >>
> >> The only problem I can see is that the metal will bend while the
compsite
> >> will shatter. I would think this would be especially true on edges,
> >> where the compsite may chip away.
> >> --
> >> Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is
to
> >> fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer,
1891
>
>

hh

depends what kind of and how you design, most fiber reinforced composite
take impact better than steel. the armor of modern tanks are made of
(partly) kevlar composite, as well as most personal armors.

if you want to make the panel withhold large force without damage, use
carbon fiber, if you want it to damage but absorb energy of impact, use
kevlar fiber. both of them can be easily designed to be more impact
resistant than any steel.



"Rusted" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:uP67d.42729$Wx6.12604@fe56.usenetserver.com.. .
> When you say composite I think of srtong for their intended application,
but
> not very good with impact/scrape that a skid plate would go through. Many
> of the off-road competitors use plastic skid plates and they seem to work
> very well. Here is a link to lots of technical info on skid plates made
> from various forms of plastic
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3qqs9
>
>
>
>
> "hh" <pine@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
> news:cji7ml$lpp$1@news.tamu.edu...
> > Happen to see ATV skid plate made from composite materials, the maker
> > claim
> > they are stronger and much lighter, which is ture to my knowledge. but I
> > did
> > not find anyone making such thing for SUV. anyone has seen one
somewhere?
> >
> > btw, for these who are not familiar, composite materials such as
> > carbon/glass fiber reinforced epoxy can be 3-5 times stiff and strong
> > compared with steels at similar weight.
> >
> >
>
>
>