Aluminum Radiator
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Aluminum Radiator
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> >
> > 210 just plain makes me nervous
>
> Why? What is wrong with 210? That's what mine tends to run at and I
> have never had a problem. Is there something I need to be worried
> about at this temp?
>
> (And anyway, if you don't like 210, couldn't you just put in a much
> lower thermostat - say 160 - and solve the problem quickly? Doesn't
> seem like an inherent problem with the radiator.)
It doesn't work like that Joshua.
The thermostat only controls how 'cold' the engine runs, it has nothing
to do with how hot it runs.
The t-stat holds the coolant from circulating until the engine warms up
to the minimum temp needed for good running. In the case of a 4.0
engine that is 195 minimum. Any colder and the computer stays in
'choke' mode and the engine will just drink gas and run like crap.
It also controls how much heat you have inside for winter driving. Some
folks change to a hotter t-stat in the winter to get better heat. 10
deg in the coolant temp can make a big difference inside.
210 is perfectly normal. A 50/50 mix of coolant and water is good to
something like 260 deg or so with a pressure cap on the rad before it
boils over.
If the engine is going to overheat, a colder t-stat has 0 impact on
that, it is a mechanical issue somewhere else. Unless the t-stat is
broken closed, then it just plain warms up and boils over immediately.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> >
> > 210 just plain makes me nervous
>
> Why? What is wrong with 210? That's what mine tends to run at and I
> have never had a problem. Is there something I need to be worried
> about at this temp?
>
> (And anyway, if you don't like 210, couldn't you just put in a much
> lower thermostat - say 160 - and solve the problem quickly? Doesn't
> seem like an inherent problem with the radiator.)
It doesn't work like that Joshua.
The thermostat only controls how 'cold' the engine runs, it has nothing
to do with how hot it runs.
The t-stat holds the coolant from circulating until the engine warms up
to the minimum temp needed for good running. In the case of a 4.0
engine that is 195 minimum. Any colder and the computer stays in
'choke' mode and the engine will just drink gas and run like crap.
It also controls how much heat you have inside for winter driving. Some
folks change to a hotter t-stat in the winter to get better heat. 10
deg in the coolant temp can make a big difference inside.
210 is perfectly normal. A 50/50 mix of coolant and water is good to
something like 260 deg or so with a pressure cap on the rad before it
boils over.
If the engine is going to overheat, a colder t-stat has 0 impact on
that, it is a mechanical issue somewhere else. Unless the t-stat is
broken closed, then it just plain warms up and boils over immediately.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Aluminum Radiator
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> >
> > 210 just plain makes me nervous
>
> Why? What is wrong with 210? That's what mine tends to run at and I
> have never had a problem. Is there something I need to be worried
> about at this temp?
>
> (And anyway, if you don't like 210, couldn't you just put in a much
> lower thermostat - say 160 - and solve the problem quickly? Doesn't
> seem like an inherent problem with the radiator.)
It doesn't work like that Joshua.
The thermostat only controls how 'cold' the engine runs, it has nothing
to do with how hot it runs.
The t-stat holds the coolant from circulating until the engine warms up
to the minimum temp needed for good running. In the case of a 4.0
engine that is 195 minimum. Any colder and the computer stays in
'choke' mode and the engine will just drink gas and run like crap.
It also controls how much heat you have inside for winter driving. Some
folks change to a hotter t-stat in the winter to get better heat. 10
deg in the coolant temp can make a big difference inside.
210 is perfectly normal. A 50/50 mix of coolant and water is good to
something like 260 deg or so with a pressure cap on the rad before it
boils over.
If the engine is going to overheat, a colder t-stat has 0 impact on
that, it is a mechanical issue somewhere else. Unless the t-stat is
broken closed, then it just plain warms up and boils over immediately.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> >
> > 210 just plain makes me nervous
>
> Why? What is wrong with 210? That's what mine tends to run at and I
> have never had a problem. Is there something I need to be worried
> about at this temp?
>
> (And anyway, if you don't like 210, couldn't you just put in a much
> lower thermostat - say 160 - and solve the problem quickly? Doesn't
> seem like an inherent problem with the radiator.)
It doesn't work like that Joshua.
The thermostat only controls how 'cold' the engine runs, it has nothing
to do with how hot it runs.
The t-stat holds the coolant from circulating until the engine warms up
to the minimum temp needed for good running. In the case of a 4.0
engine that is 195 minimum. Any colder and the computer stays in
'choke' mode and the engine will just drink gas and run like crap.
It also controls how much heat you have inside for winter driving. Some
folks change to a hotter t-stat in the winter to get better heat. 10
deg in the coolant temp can make a big difference inside.
210 is perfectly normal. A 50/50 mix of coolant and water is good to
something like 260 deg or so with a pressure cap on the rad before it
boils over.
If the engine is going to overheat, a colder t-stat has 0 impact on
that, it is a mechanical issue somewhere else. Unless the t-stat is
broken closed, then it just plain warms up and boils over immediately.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Aluminum Radiator
I have a fixed fan that just roars.
My winch and lights are blocking the flow to the rad and it is only a 2
core rad.
I have no issues in cold weather so am going to wait and get a 4 core
rad next spring. Some of the vanes in mine are coming loose, so it is
time to think on a new rad.
Thanks for the idea though. I have thought of an aux 'pusher' fan on
front of my rad, that would be easy to do because my rad sits all by
itself wide open when I open my 'hood'. LOL! I have a one piece 'glass
front end that just lifts up out of the way. To change the plugs, I can
just sit on the front tire and wrench away.
I want/like to to fix the cause, not the symptoms...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> In addition to Doug's suggestions, you might also think about adding a
> plastic "sucker" flex fan on the back of the radiator to augment the
> air flow. My dad put one of these on our old CJ because the
> aftermarket a/c condenser blocked air flow to the radiator, and he has
> really been pleased with it. I think the parts were only about $200
> in total and the labor was simple enough he did it himself.
>
> We also removed the thermostat entirely but obviously this has some
> drawbacks, especially if you live in a colder part of the country.
My winch and lights are blocking the flow to the rad and it is only a 2
core rad.
I have no issues in cold weather so am going to wait and get a 4 core
rad next spring. Some of the vanes in mine are coming loose, so it is
time to think on a new rad.
Thanks for the idea though. I have thought of an aux 'pusher' fan on
front of my rad, that would be easy to do because my rad sits all by
itself wide open when I open my 'hood'. LOL! I have a one piece 'glass
front end that just lifts up out of the way. To change the plugs, I can
just sit on the front tire and wrench away.
I want/like to to fix the cause, not the symptoms...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> In addition to Doug's suggestions, you might also think about adding a
> plastic "sucker" flex fan on the back of the radiator to augment the
> air flow. My dad put one of these on our old CJ because the
> aftermarket a/c condenser blocked air flow to the radiator, and he has
> really been pleased with it. I think the parts were only about $200
> in total and the labor was simple enough he did it himself.
>
> We also removed the thermostat entirely but obviously this has some
> drawbacks, especially if you live in a colder part of the country.
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Aluminum Radiator
I have a fixed fan that just roars.
My winch and lights are blocking the flow to the rad and it is only a 2
core rad.
I have no issues in cold weather so am going to wait and get a 4 core
rad next spring. Some of the vanes in mine are coming loose, so it is
time to think on a new rad.
Thanks for the idea though. I have thought of an aux 'pusher' fan on
front of my rad, that would be easy to do because my rad sits all by
itself wide open when I open my 'hood'. LOL! I have a one piece 'glass
front end that just lifts up out of the way. To change the plugs, I can
just sit on the front tire and wrench away.
I want/like to to fix the cause, not the symptoms...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> In addition to Doug's suggestions, you might also think about adding a
> plastic "sucker" flex fan on the back of the radiator to augment the
> air flow. My dad put one of these on our old CJ because the
> aftermarket a/c condenser blocked air flow to the radiator, and he has
> really been pleased with it. I think the parts were only about $200
> in total and the labor was simple enough he did it himself.
>
> We also removed the thermostat entirely but obviously this has some
> drawbacks, especially if you live in a colder part of the country.
My winch and lights are blocking the flow to the rad and it is only a 2
core rad.
I have no issues in cold weather so am going to wait and get a 4 core
rad next spring. Some of the vanes in mine are coming loose, so it is
time to think on a new rad.
Thanks for the idea though. I have thought of an aux 'pusher' fan on
front of my rad, that would be easy to do because my rad sits all by
itself wide open when I open my 'hood'. LOL! I have a one piece 'glass
front end that just lifts up out of the way. To change the plugs, I can
just sit on the front tire and wrench away.
I want/like to to fix the cause, not the symptoms...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> In addition to Doug's suggestions, you might also think about adding a
> plastic "sucker" flex fan on the back of the radiator to augment the
> air flow. My dad put one of these on our old CJ because the
> aftermarket a/c condenser blocked air flow to the radiator, and he has
> really been pleased with it. I think the parts were only about $200
> in total and the labor was simple enough he did it himself.
>
> We also removed the thermostat entirely but obviously this has some
> drawbacks, especially if you live in a colder part of the country.
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Aluminum Radiator
Approximately 9/11/03 11:33, Joshua Nelson uttered for posterity:
> Ok, remedial question time. What is special about aluminum? Why
> would an aluminum radiator be any better than a non-aluminum radiator?
> Is aluminum an especially good heat conductor or something?
An aluminum radiator of equal cooling capability will weigh
a bit less than half of a copper style. The aluminum is also
considerably stiffer than copper, allowing thinner tube walls
for the coolant tubes...so the ratio of wasted metal to
coolant is less. A welded aluminum radiator can transfer
heat to the fins just a bit better than the soldered
connection on a copper style.
On the other hand, any doofus can repair a copper radiator
with inexpensive materials and tools. Repairing an aluminum
one requires welding with skills appropriate for aluminum.
The aluminum radiators also require different coolant mixes
to avoid internal clogging.
As far as intrinsic heat tranfer or thermal conductivity,
copper is roughly twice as efficient as aluminum...however
as noted above, in a copper radiator, the fins are usually
soldered to the tubes, and the copper/lead/copper junction
is *claimed* [by folks selling aluminum radiators] to have
higher thermal resistance than welded aluminum. Given the
small amounts of lead used, I suspect this is more marketing
than physics.
> Ok, remedial question time. What is special about aluminum? Why
> would an aluminum radiator be any better than a non-aluminum radiator?
> Is aluminum an especially good heat conductor or something?
An aluminum radiator of equal cooling capability will weigh
a bit less than half of a copper style. The aluminum is also
considerably stiffer than copper, allowing thinner tube walls
for the coolant tubes...so the ratio of wasted metal to
coolant is less. A welded aluminum radiator can transfer
heat to the fins just a bit better than the soldered
connection on a copper style.
On the other hand, any doofus can repair a copper radiator
with inexpensive materials and tools. Repairing an aluminum
one requires welding with skills appropriate for aluminum.
The aluminum radiators also require different coolant mixes
to avoid internal clogging.
As far as intrinsic heat tranfer or thermal conductivity,
copper is roughly twice as efficient as aluminum...however
as noted above, in a copper radiator, the fins are usually
soldered to the tubes, and the copper/lead/copper junction
is *claimed* [by folks selling aluminum radiators] to have
higher thermal resistance than welded aluminum. Given the
small amounts of lead used, I suspect this is more marketing
than physics.
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Aluminum Radiator
Approximately 9/11/03 11:33, Joshua Nelson uttered for posterity:
> Ok, remedial question time. What is special about aluminum? Why
> would an aluminum radiator be any better than a non-aluminum radiator?
> Is aluminum an especially good heat conductor or something?
An aluminum radiator of equal cooling capability will weigh
a bit less than half of a copper style. The aluminum is also
considerably stiffer than copper, allowing thinner tube walls
for the coolant tubes...so the ratio of wasted metal to
coolant is less. A welded aluminum radiator can transfer
heat to the fins just a bit better than the soldered
connection on a copper style.
On the other hand, any doofus can repair a copper radiator
with inexpensive materials and tools. Repairing an aluminum
one requires welding with skills appropriate for aluminum.
The aluminum radiators also require different coolant mixes
to avoid internal clogging.
As far as intrinsic heat tranfer or thermal conductivity,
copper is roughly twice as efficient as aluminum...however
as noted above, in a copper radiator, the fins are usually
soldered to the tubes, and the copper/lead/copper junction
is *claimed* [by folks selling aluminum radiators] to have
higher thermal resistance than welded aluminum. Given the
small amounts of lead used, I suspect this is more marketing
than physics.
> Ok, remedial question time. What is special about aluminum? Why
> would an aluminum radiator be any better than a non-aluminum radiator?
> Is aluminum an especially good heat conductor or something?
An aluminum radiator of equal cooling capability will weigh
a bit less than half of a copper style. The aluminum is also
considerably stiffer than copper, allowing thinner tube walls
for the coolant tubes...so the ratio of wasted metal to
coolant is less. A welded aluminum radiator can transfer
heat to the fins just a bit better than the soldered
connection on a copper style.
On the other hand, any doofus can repair a copper radiator
with inexpensive materials and tools. Repairing an aluminum
one requires welding with skills appropriate for aluminum.
The aluminum radiators also require different coolant mixes
to avoid internal clogging.
As far as intrinsic heat tranfer or thermal conductivity,
copper is roughly twice as efficient as aluminum...however
as noted above, in a copper radiator, the fins are usually
soldered to the tubes, and the copper/lead/copper junction
is *claimed* [by folks selling aluminum radiators] to have
higher thermal resistance than welded aluminum. Given the
small amounts of lead used, I suspect this is more marketing
than physics.
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Aluminum Radiator
Aluminum conducts heat slightly better than brass. The big difference
is in the eye of the buyer though in my mind....
;-)
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> Ok, remedial question time. What is special about aluminum? Why
> would an aluminum radiator be any better than a non-aluminum radiator?
> Is aluminum an especially good heat conductor or something?
is in the eye of the buyer though in my mind....
;-)
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> Ok, remedial question time. What is special about aluminum? Why
> would an aluminum radiator be any better than a non-aluminum radiator?
> Is aluminum an especially good heat conductor or something?
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Aluminum Radiator
Aluminum conducts heat slightly better than brass. The big difference
is in the eye of the buyer though in my mind....
;-)
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> Ok, remedial question time. What is special about aluminum? Why
> would an aluminum radiator be any better than a non-aluminum radiator?
> Is aluminum an especially good heat conductor or something?
is in the eye of the buyer though in my mind....
;-)
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> Ok, remedial question time. What is special about aluminum? Why
> would an aluminum radiator be any better than a non-aluminum radiator?
> Is aluminum an especially good heat conductor or something?
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Aluminum Radiator
OK, I seem to be confused between 190 and 195... use whatever the owners
manual says you should. You can't go wrong following the owners manual (I
hope).
"TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1h2dnauT4MTGV_2iU-KYvA@comcast.com...
> 210 is what most TJs will run with the stock 190* thermostat. You don't
> want to put in a cooler t-stat or take the t-stat out because the computer
> will never see operating temperature. If you never get to op temp, the
> computer runs in open loop (warm up) all the time. This is not good.
> I know of some people who have gotten away with a 180* t-stat, but that
> would be the absolute minimum. I recommend staying with the stock 195*.
> As long as you have a good cap and a 50/50 mix, you will run fine at 210.
>
> "Red Racer" <rcanden@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:1063229976.623950@sj-nntpcache-3...
> > Carlo,
> >
> > 210 just plain makes me nervous, but unless you have a Chevy 355, or a
> > siamesed bore 400 with 11:1 comp, it is probably normal.
> >
> > RR
> >
> >
> > "Carlo Jr." <carlo.jr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:sUw7b.404737$YN5.270253@sccrnsc01...
> > > You were there to comfort me in a time of stress.......
> > > BTW - what do you think about 210F. It was there when it was new, &
the
> > > local dealer thought it was normal, so I accepted that - but, lately,
so
> > > many other people freak out when they hear 210F??
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
> > > carlo.jr@comcast.net
> > > '98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
> > > O|||||||O
> > > '92 Explorer '65 Mustang
> > >
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:3F5E2EC6.607A43D0@***.net...
> > > > Hi Carlo,
> > > > I didn't do anything.
> > > > I'm glad to hear it doesn't ever run hotter than the
thermostat.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > "Carlo Jr." wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Also.........wanted to say "thanks" to Bill.......
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
> > > > > carlo.jr@comcast.net
> > > > > '98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
> > > > > O|||||||O
> > > > > '92 Explorer '65 Mustang
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
manual says you should. You can't go wrong following the owners manual (I
hope).
"TJim" <jim@ranlet.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1h2dnauT4MTGV_2iU-KYvA@comcast.com...
> 210 is what most TJs will run with the stock 190* thermostat. You don't
> want to put in a cooler t-stat or take the t-stat out because the computer
> will never see operating temperature. If you never get to op temp, the
> computer runs in open loop (warm up) all the time. This is not good.
> I know of some people who have gotten away with a 180* t-stat, but that
> would be the absolute minimum. I recommend staying with the stock 195*.
> As long as you have a good cap and a 50/50 mix, you will run fine at 210.
>
> "Red Racer" <rcanden@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:1063229976.623950@sj-nntpcache-3...
> > Carlo,
> >
> > 210 just plain makes me nervous, but unless you have a Chevy 355, or a
> > siamesed bore 400 with 11:1 comp, it is probably normal.
> >
> > RR
> >
> >
> > "Carlo Jr." <carlo.jr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:sUw7b.404737$YN5.270253@sccrnsc01...
> > > You were there to comfort me in a time of stress.......
> > > BTW - what do you think about 210F. It was there when it was new, &
the
> > > local dealer thought it was normal, so I accepted that - but, lately,
so
> > > many other people freak out when they hear 210F??
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
> > > carlo.jr@comcast.net
> > > '98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
> > > O|||||||O
> > > '92 Explorer '65 Mustang
> > >
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:3F5E2EC6.607A43D0@***.net...
> > > > Hi Carlo,
> > > > I didn't do anything.
> > > > I'm glad to hear it doesn't ever run hotter than the
thermostat.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > "Carlo Jr." wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Also.........wanted to say "thanks" to Bill.......
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
> > > > > carlo.jr@comcast.net
> > > > > '98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
> > > > > O|||||||O
> > > > > '92 Explorer '65 Mustang
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>