>Mike Romain wrote:
>Photos usually can't be sent to this group, my server will kill your
>post because this is a text only group.

Sorry, wasn't sure. One day I will have to make a personal web page
for just such things/occasions.

>Your last and this post helped me think about things.

Cool!

>Impact damage changes everything!

That was another suspicion of mine, but I wanted to rule other
potentials out first, if possible.

>Your Jeep wasn't 'repaired' properly, they missed something..... Bad
>gas my ***.

I said the same thing to the guy at the repair place but he didn't
seem to get it. heh..

>There are a mess of small black wires bolted to the engine block usually
>on the passenger side near the dipstick. I would check there for a
>broken wire also. I for sure would do the booster cable trip on the
>body. There might also be a ground inside above the gas pedal on the
>firewall.

I plan to this weekend.

>I do not know where your fuel pump ground is located. The YJ has it on
>the firewall by the emergency brake pedal bracket. I would be looking
>'close' at the wires in the back near the pump for signs of a pinched or
>flattened wire.

I'll ask my neighbor to see what he can see for me.

>Does having your foot on the gas or brake make a difference. (ground
>theft issues)

Nope, not at all.

>The relay to tank connection seems to be one/the issue. If there is
>power at the relay for a second or 2 when the key goes to run, there
>'must' be power at the pump. When you go to start, there must be power
>at the pump as well as the relay.

Everytime we go to test, we get no power, but that's when there is no
"Check Engine" light on either. No voltage when I crank either. Just
been odd luck that the "Check Engine" has been off every time, but
I'll try to get it to come on again over the weekend.

>If the body ground is bad or intermittent, then you are putting the
>meter leads on the body to pump power at the back and you will see no
>power.

Been connecting the leads only to the terminals. Even added paperclips
so they would go into the terminals better.

>I run the booster cable back there from the battery negative for a clean
>ground tag when testing sometimes. If you have power that way, then for
>sure the ground is dead.

Gotcha.

>If no differences, then I would have my finger on that relay when the
>key was turned to see if it clicks every time. If it does, the trouble
>is downstream. I then would pierce the pump power wire just below the
>relay box to see if it has juice coming out of the relay box. I use a
>dab of 'sensor safe' RTV after on the pierce holes. If it doesn't click
>every time, then I might be thinking keyswitch, but.....

Will try this too over the weekend

>Hope some of this helps.

Sure does.. thanks again Mike! :-)

Btw.. I once worked with a Mike Romain at Six Flags. Any relation?

~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing!>

 

You can post photos over in alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 if your
server carries that newsgroup. It is pretty empty and a bunch of us
post there. I use Sony's imagestation site for my off road albums.

I am not likely the same Mike because I have no idea where Six Flags
is....

Good luck,

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Casper@ghostmail.cc wrote:
>
> >Mike Romain wrote:
> >Photos usually can't be sent to this group, my server will kill your
> >post because this is a text only group.
>
> Sorry, wasn't sure. One day I will have to make a personal web page
> for just such things/occasions.
>
> >Your last and this post helped me think about things.
>
> Cool!
>
> >Impact damage changes everything!
>
> That was another suspicion of mine, but I wanted to rule other
> potentials out first, if possible.
>
> >Your Jeep wasn't 'repaired' properly, they missed something..... Bad
> >gas my ***.
>
> I said the same thing to the guy at the repair place but he didn't
> seem to get it. heh..
>
> >There are a mess of small black wires bolted to the engine block usually
> >on the passenger side near the dipstick. I would check there for a
> >broken wire also. I for sure would do the booster cable trip on the
> >body. There might also be a ground inside above the gas pedal on the
> >firewall.
>
> I plan to this weekend.
>
> >I do not know where your fuel pump ground is located. The YJ has it on
> >the firewall by the emergency brake pedal bracket. I would be looking
> >'close' at the wires in the back near the pump for signs of a pinched or
> >flattened wire.
>
> I'll ask my neighbor to see what he can see for me.
>
> >Does having your foot on the gas or brake make a difference. (ground
> >theft issues)
>
> Nope, not at all.
>
> >The relay to tank connection seems to be one/the issue. If there is
> >power at the relay for a second or 2 when the key goes to run, there
> >'must' be power at the pump. When you go to start, there must be power
> >at the pump as well as the relay.
>
> Everytime we go to test, we get no power, but that's when there is no
> "Check Engine" light on either. No voltage when I crank either. Just
> been odd luck that the "Check Engine" has been off every time, but
> I'll try to get it to come on again over the weekend.
>
> >If the body ground is bad or intermittent, then you are putting the
> >meter leads on the body to pump power at the back and you will see no
> >power.
>
> Been connecting the leads only to the terminals. Even added paperclips
> so they would go into the terminals better.
>
> >I run the booster cable back there from the battery negative for a clean
> >ground tag when testing sometimes. If you have power that way, then for
> >sure the ground is dead.
>
> Gotcha.
>
> >If no differences, then I would have my finger on that relay when the
> >key was turned to see if it clicks every time. If it does, the trouble
> >is downstream. I then would pierce the pump power wire just below the
> >relay box to see if it has juice coming out of the relay box. I use a
> >dab of 'sensor safe' RTV after on the pierce holes. If it doesn't click
> >every time, then I might be thinking keyswitch, but.....
>
> Will try this too over the weekend
>
> >Hope some of this helps.
>
> Sure does.. thanks again Mike! :-)
>
> Btw.. I once worked with a Mike Romain at Six Flags. Any relation?
>
> ~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing!>

 

You can post photos over in alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 if your
server carries that newsgroup. It is pretty empty and a bunch of us
post there. I use Sony's imagestation site for my off road albums.

I am not likely the same Mike because I have no idea where Six Flags
is....

Good luck,

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Casper@ghostmail.cc wrote:
>
> >Mike Romain wrote:
> >Photos usually can't be sent to this group, my server will kill your
> >post because this is a text only group.
>
> Sorry, wasn't sure. One day I will have to make a personal web page
> for just such things/occasions.
>
> >Your last and this post helped me think about things.
>
> Cool!
>
> >Impact damage changes everything!
>
> That was another suspicion of mine, but I wanted to rule other
> potentials out first, if possible.
>
> >Your Jeep wasn't 'repaired' properly, they missed something..... Bad
> >gas my ***.
>
> I said the same thing to the guy at the repair place but he didn't
> seem to get it. heh..
>
> >There are a mess of small black wires bolted to the engine block usually
> >on the passenger side near the dipstick. I would check there for a
> >broken wire also. I for sure would do the booster cable trip on the
> >body. There might also be a ground inside above the gas pedal on the
> >firewall.
>
> I plan to this weekend.
>
> >I do not know where your fuel pump ground is located. The YJ has it on
> >the firewall by the emergency brake pedal bracket. I would be looking
> >'close' at the wires in the back near the pump for signs of a pinched or
> >flattened wire.
>
> I'll ask my neighbor to see what he can see for me.
>
> >Does having your foot on the gas or brake make a difference. (ground
> >theft issues)
>
> Nope, not at all.
>
> >The relay to tank connection seems to be one/the issue. If there is
> >power at the relay for a second or 2 when the key goes to run, there
> >'must' be power at the pump. When you go to start, there must be power
> >at the pump as well as the relay.
>
> Everytime we go to test, we get no power, but that's when there is no
> "Check Engine" light on either. No voltage when I crank either. Just
> been odd luck that the "Check Engine" has been off every time, but
> I'll try to get it to come on again over the weekend.
>
> >If the body ground is bad or intermittent, then you are putting the
> >meter leads on the body to pump power at the back and you will see no
> >power.
>
> Been connecting the leads only to the terminals. Even added paperclips
> so they would go into the terminals better.
>
> >I run the booster cable back there from the battery negative for a clean
> >ground tag when testing sometimes. If you have power that way, then for
> >sure the ground is dead.
>
> Gotcha.
>
> >If no differences, then I would have my finger on that relay when the
> >key was turned to see if it clicks every time. If it does, the trouble
> >is downstream. I then would pierce the pump power wire just below the
> >relay box to see if it has juice coming out of the relay box. I use a
> >dab of 'sensor safe' RTV after on the pierce holes. If it doesn't click
> >every time, then I might be thinking keyswitch, but.....
>
> Will try this too over the weekend
>
> >Hope some of this helps.
>
> Sure does.. thanks again Mike! :-)
>
> Btw.. I once worked with a Mike Romain at Six Flags. Any relation?
>
> ~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing!>

 

You can post photos over in alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 if your
server carries that newsgroup. It is pretty empty and a bunch of us
post there. I use Sony's imagestation site for my off road albums.

I am not likely the same Mike because I have no idea where Six Flags
is....

Good luck,

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Casper@ghostmail.cc wrote:
>
> >Mike Romain wrote:
> >Photos usually can't be sent to this group, my server will kill your
> >post because this is a text only group.
>
> Sorry, wasn't sure. One day I will have to make a personal web page
> for just such things/occasions.
>
> >Your last and this post helped me think about things.
>
> Cool!
>
> >Impact damage changes everything!
>
> That was another suspicion of mine, but I wanted to rule other
> potentials out first, if possible.
>
> >Your Jeep wasn't 'repaired' properly, they missed something..... Bad
> >gas my ***.
>
> I said the same thing to the guy at the repair place but he didn't
> seem to get it. heh..
>
> >There are a mess of small black wires bolted to the engine block usually
> >on the passenger side near the dipstick. I would check there for a
> >broken wire also. I for sure would do the booster cable trip on the
> >body. There might also be a ground inside above the gas pedal on the
> >firewall.
>
> I plan to this weekend.
>
> >I do not know where your fuel pump ground is located. The YJ has it on
> >the firewall by the emergency brake pedal bracket. I would be looking
> >'close' at the wires in the back near the pump for signs of a pinched or
> >flattened wire.
>
> I'll ask my neighbor to see what he can see for me.
>
> >Does having your foot on the gas or brake make a difference. (ground
> >theft issues)
>
> Nope, not at all.
>
> >The relay to tank connection seems to be one/the issue. If there is
> >power at the relay for a second or 2 when the key goes to run, there
> >'must' be power at the pump. When you go to start, there must be power
> >at the pump as well as the relay.
>
> Everytime we go to test, we get no power, but that's when there is no
> "Check Engine" light on either. No voltage when I crank either. Just
> been odd luck that the "Check Engine" has been off every time, but
> I'll try to get it to come on again over the weekend.
>
> >If the body ground is bad or intermittent, then you are putting the
> >meter leads on the body to pump power at the back and you will see no
> >power.
>
> Been connecting the leads only to the terminals. Even added paperclips
> so they would go into the terminals better.
>
> >I run the booster cable back there from the battery negative for a clean
> >ground tag when testing sometimes. If you have power that way, then for
> >sure the ground is dead.
>
> Gotcha.
>
> >If no differences, then I would have my finger on that relay when the
> >key was turned to see if it clicks every time. If it does, the trouble
> >is downstream. I then would pierce the pump power wire just below the
> >relay box to see if it has juice coming out of the relay box. I use a
> >dab of 'sensor safe' RTV after on the pierce holes. If it doesn't click
> >every time, then I might be thinking keyswitch, but.....
>
> Will try this too over the weekend
>
> >Hope some of this helps.
>
> Sure does.. thanks again Mike! :-)
>
> Btw.. I once worked with a Mike Romain at Six Flags. Any relation?
>
> ~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing!>

 

You can post photos over in alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 if your
server carries that newsgroup. It is pretty empty and a bunch of us
post there. I use Sony's imagestation site for my off road albums.

I am not likely the same Mike because I have no idea where Six Flags
is....

Good luck,

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Casper@ghostmail.cc wrote:
>
> >Mike Romain wrote:
> >Photos usually can't be sent to this group, my server will kill your
> >post because this is a text only group.
>
> Sorry, wasn't sure. One day I will have to make a personal web page
> for just such things/occasions.
>
> >Your last and this post helped me think about things.
>
> Cool!
>
> >Impact damage changes everything!
>
> That was another suspicion of mine, but I wanted to rule other
> potentials out first, if possible.
>
> >Your Jeep wasn't 'repaired' properly, they missed something..... Bad
> >gas my ***.
>
> I said the same thing to the guy at the repair place but he didn't
> seem to get it. heh..
>
> >There are a mess of small black wires bolted to the engine block usually
> >on the passenger side near the dipstick. I would check there for a
> >broken wire also. I for sure would do the booster cable trip on the
> >body. There might also be a ground inside above the gas pedal on the
> >firewall.
>
> I plan to this weekend.
>
> >I do not know where your fuel pump ground is located. The YJ has it on
> >the firewall by the emergency brake pedal bracket. I would be looking
> >'close' at the wires in the back near the pump for signs of a pinched or
> >flattened wire.
>
> I'll ask my neighbor to see what he can see for me.
>
> >Does having your foot on the gas or brake make a difference. (ground
> >theft issues)
>
> Nope, not at all.
>
> >The relay to tank connection seems to be one/the issue. If there is
> >power at the relay for a second or 2 when the key goes to run, there
> >'must' be power at the pump. When you go to start, there must be power
> >at the pump as well as the relay.
>
> Everytime we go to test, we get no power, but that's when there is no
> "Check Engine" light on either. No voltage when I crank either. Just
> been odd luck that the "Check Engine" has been off every time, but
> I'll try to get it to come on again over the weekend.
>
> >If the body ground is bad or intermittent, then you are putting the
> >meter leads on the body to pump power at the back and you will see no
> >power.
>
> Been connecting the leads only to the terminals. Even added paperclips
> so they would go into the terminals better.
>
> >I run the booster cable back there from the battery negative for a clean
> >ground tag when testing sometimes. If you have power that way, then for
> >sure the ground is dead.
>
> Gotcha.
>
> >If no differences, then I would have my finger on that relay when the
> >key was turned to see if it clicks every time. If it does, the trouble
> >is downstream. I then would pierce the pump power wire just below the
> >relay box to see if it has juice coming out of the relay box. I use a
> >dab of 'sensor safe' RTV after on the pierce holes. If it doesn't click
> >every time, then I might be thinking keyswitch, but.....
>
> Will try this too over the weekend
>
> >Hope some of this helps.
>
> Sure does.. thanks again Mike! :-)
>
> Btw.. I once worked with a Mike Romain at Six Flags. Any relation?
>
> ~Casper <Jeepers... it's a Jeep thing!>

 

Casper did pass the time by typing:
>> "DougW" did pass the time by typing:
>> The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check
>> Engine light.
>
> Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
> checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
> Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
> I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!

The 93's diagnosic system is OBD-III, not OBD-III compliant, so the
modern code scanners don't work.. You have to buy a $peical one from
one of a few vendors.

--
DougW

 

Casper did pass the time by typing:
>> "DougW" did pass the time by typing:
>> The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check
>> Engine light.
>
> Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
> checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
> Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
> I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!

The 93's diagnosic system is OBD-III, not OBD-III compliant, so the
modern code scanners don't work.. You have to buy a $peical one from
one of a few vendors.

--
DougW

 

Casper did pass the time by typing:
>> "DougW" did pass the time by typing:
>> The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check
>> Engine light.
>
> Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
> checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
> Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
> I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!

The 93's diagnosic system is OBD-III, not OBD-III compliant, so the
modern code scanners don't work.. You have to buy a $peical one from
one of a few vendors.

--
DougW

 

Casper did pass the time by typing:
>> "DougW" did pass the time by typing:
>> The ECU (engine brain) is what does all the testing and lights the Check
>> Engine light.
>
> Oh, the only two engine codes that show up are 12 and 55. I've been
> checking those about every three to four days and no changes.
> Unfortunately I do not have an ODBC checker to connect to my PC.. tho
> I am giving it some serious thought as of late. Thanks again!

The 93's diagnosic system is OBD-III, not OBD-III compliant, so the
modern code scanners don't work.. You have to buy a $peical one from
one of a few vendors.

--
DougW

 

Casper did pass the time by typing:

> Thanks for the info. I am going to do a more testing this weekend.

No problem, hope it helps.

> Couple more questions...
>
> Should the fuel pressure be exactly 31psi? When we tested my
> neighbor's 95' GC Laredo, his was about 20-21Psi. We expected 30, but
> it only went up after starting, and then to about 40-41Psi.

31-32 is "normal" for the 4.0 engine, 39-40 is what happens when the vacuum
line is disconnected from the fuel rail regulator, and is a test for proper
function of the pressure regulator. A static (engine off) pressure of 20-21
is great. If you actually watch the pressure it will rise (quite a bit,
up to 50+) after a hot engine shutoff. Fuel is boiling in the injectors.

> He replaced his ECM last summer because he thought the tranny might be
> getting improper signals. As it turned out, one of the tranny
> connections had some broken magent pieces that were the culpprit to
> his gear switching issues. Once he cleaned that up, it shifts fine.
> But it may be that his starting problem began after he replaced the
> ECU. He plans on swapping the old ECU back in to test. He offered me
> his spare to test but not sure it would work in my 93'GC Limited.

95-96 was the change over to OBD-III diagnositcs, I can't say for certain
but if you get the part number off his ECU and take it to a dealer they
can tell you if it crosses years.

> And your website is cool. :-)

Thanks. :)

--
DougW