93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
12-05-2003, 03:16 PM
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:23:53 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:
> Will Honea did pass the time by typing:
>
> > Doug, there is a rationale to flooring the pedal in cold weather AFTER
> > you screw up the first start. The gas that floods the cylinders never
> > evaporates and it stays flooded unless you open the hole up enough to
> > get some air thru the system. I was messing with mine MJ last winter
> > and managed to stall it just after it started. Well, that really
> > smart computer in old Rennix system seems to figure that if the engine
> > died while it was trying to keep it running that it needs a bunch of
> > throttle/bypass air/fuel when it restarts - PITA! Anyway, it will
> > flood it but good and at -5 or so it takes a good battery and patience
> > to finally flush the @#$% thing out so that it runs. Starts one
> > cylinder at a time: chug... chug chug... chug chug chug... etc. until
> > it finally gets going. The first winter I was at the AF Academy I was
> > instructing in the T-41 (Cessna 182) and if we flooded those suckers
> > we either pulled the plugs and dried them of figured that bird was
> > parked til the next thaw. The smart thing is to follow the book and
> > don't touch the gas when starting but if it floods down you sure
> > better consider it on the re-start.
>
> Don't know if the ZJ reacts the same way as a Mercury does. If you floor
> the pedal in the Mercury it tells the computer to shut off all fuel. The OP
> described "pumping" the pedal as well, I was commenting on that.
>
> You can stop it from flooding by removing the fuel pump relay. ;)
Oh, yeah! Pumping a FI system (with no fuel pump) falls into the "----
on a boar hog" category - but it seems to make some folks feel better
<g>. I don't know about the shutoff deal w/the MOPAR computer, but
the old Rennix is too dumb to know any better.
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
wrote:
> Will Honea did pass the time by typing:
>
> > Doug, there is a rationale to flooring the pedal in cold weather AFTER
> > you screw up the first start. The gas that floods the cylinders never
> > evaporates and it stays flooded unless you open the hole up enough to
> > get some air thru the system. I was messing with mine MJ last winter
> > and managed to stall it just after it started. Well, that really
> > smart computer in old Rennix system seems to figure that if the engine
> > died while it was trying to keep it running that it needs a bunch of
> > throttle/bypass air/fuel when it restarts - PITA! Anyway, it will
> > flood it but good and at -5 or so it takes a good battery and patience
> > to finally flush the @#$% thing out so that it runs. Starts one
> > cylinder at a time: chug... chug chug... chug chug chug... etc. until
> > it finally gets going. The first winter I was at the AF Academy I was
> > instructing in the T-41 (Cessna 182) and if we flooded those suckers
> > we either pulled the plugs and dried them of figured that bird was
> > parked til the next thaw. The smart thing is to follow the book and
> > don't touch the gas when starting but if it floods down you sure
> > better consider it on the re-start.
>
> Don't know if the ZJ reacts the same way as a Mercury does. If you floor
> the pedal in the Mercury it tells the computer to shut off all fuel. The OP
> described "pumping" the pedal as well, I was commenting on that.
>
> You can stop it from flooding by removing the fuel pump relay. ;)
Oh, yeah! Pumping a FI system (with no fuel pump) falls into the "----
on a boar hog" category - but it seems to make some folks feel better
<g>. I don't know about the shutoff deal w/the MOPAR computer, but
the old Rennix is too dumb to know any better.
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
12-05-2003, 03:16 PM
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:23:53 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:
> Will Honea did pass the time by typing:
>
> > Doug, there is a rationale to flooring the pedal in cold weather AFTER
> > you screw up the first start. The gas that floods the cylinders never
> > evaporates and it stays flooded unless you open the hole up enough to
> > get some air thru the system. I was messing with mine MJ last winter
> > and managed to stall it just after it started. Well, that really
> > smart computer in old Rennix system seems to figure that if the engine
> > died while it was trying to keep it running that it needs a bunch of
> > throttle/bypass air/fuel when it restarts - PITA! Anyway, it will
> > flood it but good and at -5 or so it takes a good battery and patience
> > to finally flush the @#$% thing out so that it runs. Starts one
> > cylinder at a time: chug... chug chug... chug chug chug... etc. until
> > it finally gets going. The first winter I was at the AF Academy I was
> > instructing in the T-41 (Cessna 182) and if we flooded those suckers
> > we either pulled the plugs and dried them of figured that bird was
> > parked til the next thaw. The smart thing is to follow the book and
> > don't touch the gas when starting but if it floods down you sure
> > better consider it on the re-start.
>
> Don't know if the ZJ reacts the same way as a Mercury does. If you floor
> the pedal in the Mercury it tells the computer to shut off all fuel. The OP
> described "pumping" the pedal as well, I was commenting on that.
>
> You can stop it from flooding by removing the fuel pump relay. ;)
Oh, yeah! Pumping a FI system (with no fuel pump) falls into the "----
on a boar hog" category - but it seems to make some folks feel better
<g>. I don't know about the shutoff deal w/the MOPAR computer, but
the old Rennix is too dumb to know any better.
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
wrote:
> Will Honea did pass the time by typing:
>
> > Doug, there is a rationale to flooring the pedal in cold weather AFTER
> > you screw up the first start. The gas that floods the cylinders never
> > evaporates and it stays flooded unless you open the hole up enough to
> > get some air thru the system. I was messing with mine MJ last winter
> > and managed to stall it just after it started. Well, that really
> > smart computer in old Rennix system seems to figure that if the engine
> > died while it was trying to keep it running that it needs a bunch of
> > throttle/bypass air/fuel when it restarts - PITA! Anyway, it will
> > flood it but good and at -5 or so it takes a good battery and patience
> > to finally flush the @#$% thing out so that it runs. Starts one
> > cylinder at a time: chug... chug chug... chug chug chug... etc. until
> > it finally gets going. The first winter I was at the AF Academy I was
> > instructing in the T-41 (Cessna 182) and if we flooded those suckers
> > we either pulled the plugs and dried them of figured that bird was
> > parked til the next thaw. The smart thing is to follow the book and
> > don't touch the gas when starting but if it floods down you sure
> > better consider it on the re-start.
>
> Don't know if the ZJ reacts the same way as a Mercury does. If you floor
> the pedal in the Mercury it tells the computer to shut off all fuel. The OP
> described "pumping" the pedal as well, I was commenting on that.
>
> You can stop it from flooding by removing the fuel pump relay. ;)
Oh, yeah! Pumping a FI system (with no fuel pump) falls into the "----
on a boar hog" category - but it seems to make some folks feel better
<g>. I don't know about the shutoff deal w/the MOPAR computer, but
the old Rennix is too dumb to know any better.
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
12-05-2003, 05:47 PM
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
Lon Stowell did pass the time by typing:
> Never had this happen *yet* on a ZJ, but if you get ice in the
> fuel line and it jams a !@!@$# injector open, you get a pretty
> good flood condition in a hurry. Even a partial open jam will
> make the engine run like crap until the rail gets warm enough
> to melt the ice.
Tell me about it. Got an ice block up in Colorado last winter.
Only source could have been the gas station in Dalhart TX. The
pump was a bit sluggish (my first clue) and was most likely sucking
water.
A bottle of fuel drier fixed it right up.
--
DougW
> Never had this happen *yet* on a ZJ, but if you get ice in the
> fuel line and it jams a !@!@$# injector open, you get a pretty
> good flood condition in a hurry. Even a partial open jam will
> make the engine run like crap until the rail gets warm enough
> to melt the ice.
Tell me about it. Got an ice block up in Colorado last winter.
Only source could have been the gas station in Dalhart TX. The
pump was a bit sluggish (my first clue) and was most likely sucking
water.
A bottle of fuel drier fixed it right up.
--
DougW
12-05-2003, 05:47 PM
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
Lon Stowell did pass the time by typing:
> Never had this happen *yet* on a ZJ, but if you get ice in the
> fuel line and it jams a !@!@$# injector open, you get a pretty
> good flood condition in a hurry. Even a partial open jam will
> make the engine run like crap until the rail gets warm enough
> to melt the ice.
Tell me about it. Got an ice block up in Colorado last winter.
Only source could have been the gas station in Dalhart TX. The
pump was a bit sluggish (my first clue) and was most likely sucking
water.
A bottle of fuel drier fixed it right up.
--
DougW
> Never had this happen *yet* on a ZJ, but if you get ice in the
> fuel line and it jams a !@!@$# injector open, you get a pretty
> good flood condition in a hurry. Even a partial open jam will
> make the engine run like crap until the rail gets warm enough
> to melt the ice.
Tell me about it. Got an ice block up in Colorado last winter.
Only source could have been the gas station in Dalhart TX. The
pump was a bit sluggish (my first clue) and was most likely sucking
water.
A bottle of fuel drier fixed it right up.
--
DougW
12-05-2003, 05:47 PM
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
Lon Stowell did pass the time by typing:
> Never had this happen *yet* on a ZJ, but if you get ice in the
> fuel line and it jams a !@!@$# injector open, you get a pretty
> good flood condition in a hurry. Even a partial open jam will
> make the engine run like crap until the rail gets warm enough
> to melt the ice.
Tell me about it. Got an ice block up in Colorado last winter.
Only source could have been the gas station in Dalhart TX. The
pump was a bit sluggish (my first clue) and was most likely sucking
water.
A bottle of fuel drier fixed it right up.
--
DougW
> Never had this happen *yet* on a ZJ, but if you get ice in the
> fuel line and it jams a !@!@$# injector open, you get a pretty
> good flood condition in a hurry. Even a partial open jam will
> make the engine run like crap until the rail gets warm enough
> to melt the ice.
Tell me about it. Got an ice block up in Colorado last winter.
Only source could have been the gas station in Dalhart TX. The
pump was a bit sluggish (my first clue) and was most likely sucking
water.
A bottle of fuel drier fixed it right up.
--
DougW
12-05-2003, 05:51 PM
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
D did pass the time by typing:
> Doug,
> Aw, I was just dreamin' on the supercharger anyway. Many years past that.
> Thanks for the help, again, and here's an update,
> I threw an old moving blanket over the engine compartment last night. I
> really don't know if it had anything to do with it, but the old lady started
> on the 4th revolution, smoothly idling and behaving well.
> The leak-down test intrigues me and I'm going out to do that now. Through
> this and some other problems I've had with her, fuel supply has always been
> my suspicion, over spark. I know many things can affect the supply.
> Used to have an Audi 5000 Turbo. It had a closed fuel management system and
> several problems I had with it kind of echo what I'm experiencing.
> Anyway, not out of the woods yet, but getting there.
> Thanks to yours and others help.
You might want to throw a bottle of O2 sensor safe fuel system cleaner with
water dispersion ability in there. (gunk makes one and there are several others)
That will suck up the water and help keep ice away.
--
DougW
> Doug,
> Aw, I was just dreamin' on the supercharger anyway. Many years past that.
> Thanks for the help, again, and here's an update,
> I threw an old moving blanket over the engine compartment last night. I
> really don't know if it had anything to do with it, but the old lady started
> on the 4th revolution, smoothly idling and behaving well.
> The leak-down test intrigues me and I'm going out to do that now. Through
> this and some other problems I've had with her, fuel supply has always been
> my suspicion, over spark. I know many things can affect the supply.
> Used to have an Audi 5000 Turbo. It had a closed fuel management system and
> several problems I had with it kind of echo what I'm experiencing.
> Anyway, not out of the woods yet, but getting there.
> Thanks to yours and others help.
You might want to throw a bottle of O2 sensor safe fuel system cleaner with
water dispersion ability in there. (gunk makes one and there are several others)
That will suck up the water and help keep ice away.
--
DougW
12-05-2003, 05:51 PM
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
D did pass the time by typing:
> Doug,
> Aw, I was just dreamin' on the supercharger anyway. Many years past that.
> Thanks for the help, again, and here's an update,
> I threw an old moving blanket over the engine compartment last night. I
> really don't know if it had anything to do with it, but the old lady started
> on the 4th revolution, smoothly idling and behaving well.
> The leak-down test intrigues me and I'm going out to do that now. Through
> this and some other problems I've had with her, fuel supply has always been
> my suspicion, over spark. I know many things can affect the supply.
> Used to have an Audi 5000 Turbo. It had a closed fuel management system and
> several problems I had with it kind of echo what I'm experiencing.
> Anyway, not out of the woods yet, but getting there.
> Thanks to yours and others help.
You might want to throw a bottle of O2 sensor safe fuel system cleaner with
water dispersion ability in there. (gunk makes one and there are several others)
That will suck up the water and help keep ice away.
--
DougW
> Doug,
> Aw, I was just dreamin' on the supercharger anyway. Many years past that.
> Thanks for the help, again, and here's an update,
> I threw an old moving blanket over the engine compartment last night. I
> really don't know if it had anything to do with it, but the old lady started
> on the 4th revolution, smoothly idling and behaving well.
> The leak-down test intrigues me and I'm going out to do that now. Through
> this and some other problems I've had with her, fuel supply has always been
> my suspicion, over spark. I know many things can affect the supply.
> Used to have an Audi 5000 Turbo. It had a closed fuel management system and
> several problems I had with it kind of echo what I'm experiencing.
> Anyway, not out of the woods yet, but getting there.
> Thanks to yours and others help.
You might want to throw a bottle of O2 sensor safe fuel system cleaner with
water dispersion ability in there. (gunk makes one and there are several others)
That will suck up the water and help keep ice away.
--
DougW
12-05-2003, 05:51 PM
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
D did pass the time by typing:
> Doug,
> Aw, I was just dreamin' on the supercharger anyway. Many years past that.
> Thanks for the help, again, and here's an update,
> I threw an old moving blanket over the engine compartment last night. I
> really don't know if it had anything to do with it, but the old lady started
> on the 4th revolution, smoothly idling and behaving well.
> The leak-down test intrigues me and I'm going out to do that now. Through
> this and some other problems I've had with her, fuel supply has always been
> my suspicion, over spark. I know many things can affect the supply.
> Used to have an Audi 5000 Turbo. It had a closed fuel management system and
> several problems I had with it kind of echo what I'm experiencing.
> Anyway, not out of the woods yet, but getting there.
> Thanks to yours and others help.
You might want to throw a bottle of O2 sensor safe fuel system cleaner with
water dispersion ability in there. (gunk makes one and there are several others)
That will suck up the water and help keep ice away.
--
DougW
> Doug,
> Aw, I was just dreamin' on the supercharger anyway. Many years past that.
> Thanks for the help, again, and here's an update,
> I threw an old moving blanket over the engine compartment last night. I
> really don't know if it had anything to do with it, but the old lady started
> on the 4th revolution, smoothly idling and behaving well.
> The leak-down test intrigues me and I'm going out to do that now. Through
> this and some other problems I've had with her, fuel supply has always been
> my suspicion, over spark. I know many things can affect the supply.
> Used to have an Audi 5000 Turbo. It had a closed fuel management system and
> several problems I had with it kind of echo what I'm experiencing.
> Anyway, not out of the woods yet, but getting there.
> Thanks to yours and others help.
You might want to throw a bottle of O2 sensor safe fuel system cleaner with
water dispersion ability in there. (gunk makes one and there are several others)
That will suck up the water and help keep ice away.
--
DougW
12-05-2003, 08:42 PM
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:L_7Ab.27351$Gj2.567@okepread01...
> D did pass the time by typing:
> > Doug,
> > Aw, I was just dreamin' on the supercharger anyway. Many years past
that.
> > Thanks for the help, again, and here's an update,
> > I threw an old moving blanket over the engine compartment last night. I
> > really don't know if it had anything to do with it, but the old lady
started
> > on the 4th revolution, smoothly idling and behaving well.
> > The leak-down test intrigues me and I'm going out to do that now.
Through
> > this and some other problems I've had with her, fuel supply has always
been
> > my suspicion, over spark. I know many things can affect the supply.
> > Used to have an Audi 5000 Turbo. It had a closed fuel management system
and
> > several problems I had with it kind of echo what I'm experiencing.
> > Anyway, not out of the woods yet, but getting there.
> > Thanks to yours and others help.
>
> You might want to throw a bottle of O2 sensor safe fuel system cleaner
with
> water dispersion ability in there. (gunk makes one and there are several
others)
> That will suck up the water and help keep ice away.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>
I'll get some of that tomorrow, first thing Doug.
Doing the leak-down test, everything seemed normal. Ignition on and pressure
jumped up to just below 30psi. Started up and held just above 30. Revved up
a little and it jumped to maybe 35 and then back to 32 or so. Shut down and
it stayed at about 28 for a long time. Reason I'm having so many 'abouts' is
the reading is on the low end of the meter and can't tell the exact reading.
So, I'll Gunk her tomorrow and we'll see where it goes.
You all have been awfully patient with me and I appreciate it. When I get
back in with results later, I'll post new since this thread is getting
awfully long. That's the proper thing to do right?
Thanks
Denny
12-05-2003, 08:42 PM
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 93 Grand Cherokee-Won't Start in Cold
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:L_7Ab.27351$Gj2.567@okepread01...
> D did pass the time by typing:
> > Doug,
> > Aw, I was just dreamin' on the supercharger anyway. Many years past
that.
> > Thanks for the help, again, and here's an update,
> > I threw an old moving blanket over the engine compartment last night. I
> > really don't know if it had anything to do with it, but the old lady
started
> > on the 4th revolution, smoothly idling and behaving well.
> > The leak-down test intrigues me and I'm going out to do that now.
Through
> > this and some other problems I've had with her, fuel supply has always
been
> > my suspicion, over spark. I know many things can affect the supply.
> > Used to have an Audi 5000 Turbo. It had a closed fuel management system
and
> > several problems I had with it kind of echo what I'm experiencing.
> > Anyway, not out of the woods yet, but getting there.
> > Thanks to yours and others help.
>
> You might want to throw a bottle of O2 sensor safe fuel system cleaner
with
> water dispersion ability in there. (gunk makes one and there are several
others)
> That will suck up the water and help keep ice away.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>
I'll get some of that tomorrow, first thing Doug.
Doing the leak-down test, everything seemed normal. Ignition on and pressure
jumped up to just below 30psi. Started up and held just above 30. Revved up
a little and it jumped to maybe 35 and then back to 32 or so. Shut down and
it stayed at about 28 for a long time. Reason I'm having so many 'abouts' is
the reading is on the low end of the meter and can't tell the exact reading.
So, I'll Gunk her tomorrow and we'll see where it goes.
You all have been awfully patient with me and I appreciate it. When I get
back in with results later, I'll post new since this thread is getting
awfully long. That's the proper thing to do right?
Thanks
Denny