D

Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
I made some comments below.

"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't worry
> about the ASR.

I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!

>
> 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor, PCM
will
> deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay, interrupting
> voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> condition).

Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the morning,
this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.

>
> 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
vehicles
> exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was caused by
> secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When there
is
> high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to ground
> becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due to the
> extra conductivity of the air.

If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been steadily
getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does that
info sway your thoughts in any way?
At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned out to
be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems but
run well once started?

>
> Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see if
> anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it out.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I can't
evern
> > interpret a digital VOM now.
> >
> > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Doug,
> > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted out the
> > 'base'
> > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
another
> > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high points on
it.
> > This
> > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it to have
6
> > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the reference
> > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this part:
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of the
> > shaft.
> > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at least
> gave
> > a
> > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to start.
> > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way too.
> > > >Denny
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but common
> > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed to the
> > > shaft.
> >
> >
>
>

D

Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
I made some comments below.

"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't worry
> about the ASR.

I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!

>
> 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor, PCM
will
> deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay, interrupting
> voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> condition).

Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the morning,
this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.

>
> 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
vehicles
> exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was caused by
> secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When there
is
> high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to ground
> becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due to the
> extra conductivity of the air.

If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been steadily
getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does that
info sway your thoughts in any way?
At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned out to
be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems but
run well once started?

>
> Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see if
> anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it out.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I can't
evern
> > interpret a digital VOM now.
> >
> > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Doug,
> > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted out the
> > 'base'
> > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
another
> > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high points on
it.
> > This
> > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it to have
6
> > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the reference
> > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this part:
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of the
> > shaft.
> > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at least
> gave
> > a
> > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to start.
> > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way too.
> > > >Denny
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but common
> > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed to the
> > > shaft.
> >
> >
>
>

D

Great information ----. Thanks very much.
I will test her in the morning along with Jerry's post following.
I appreciate the help.
Denny

"----" <r------33@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:cvbcvvs6o1etjcroufinso3jjl3h243dr9@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 16:39:53 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanks Bill,
> >I do have good fuel pressure. Just was hoping there was some absolute
test I
> >could do on the CPS before digging down to change it.
>
> The service manual states to test the CPS with the DRB II diagnostic
> scan tool. Lacking that, the quick and dirty test is to place an
> ohmmeter across terminals B and C. Near the rear of the intake
> manifold, disconnect sensor pigtail harness connector from main wiring
> harness. Looking into the CPS connector, with the clip up, you will
> see a notch on the right side. In that position, the terminals read
> A, B, C left to right. Ohmmeter should be set to 1K-to-10K scale for
> this test. The meter reading should be open (no resistance). Replace
> sensor if a low resistance is indicated. All taken from the official
> 1993 Service Manual for the Jeep Grand Cherokee.
>
> ----

D

Great information ----. Thanks very much.
I will test her in the morning along with Jerry's post following.
I appreciate the help.
Denny

"----" <r------33@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:cvbcvvs6o1etjcroufinso3jjl3h243dr9@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 16:39:53 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanks Bill,
> >I do have good fuel pressure. Just was hoping there was some absolute
test I
> >could do on the CPS before digging down to change it.
>
> The service manual states to test the CPS with the DRB II diagnostic
> scan tool. Lacking that, the quick and dirty test is to place an
> ohmmeter across terminals B and C. Near the rear of the intake
> manifold, disconnect sensor pigtail harness connector from main wiring
> harness. Looking into the CPS connector, with the clip up, you will
> see a notch on the right side. In that position, the terminals read
> A, B, C left to right. Ohmmeter should be set to 1K-to-10K scale for
> this test. The meter reading should be open (no resistance). Replace
> sensor if a low resistance is indicated. All taken from the official
> 1993 Service Manual for the Jeep Grand Cherokee.
>
> ----

D

Great information ----. Thanks very much.
I will test her in the morning along with Jerry's post following.
I appreciate the help.
Denny

"----" <r------33@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:cvbcvvs6o1etjcroufinso3jjl3h243dr9@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 16:39:53 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanks Bill,
> >I do have good fuel pressure. Just was hoping there was some absolute
test I
> >could do on the CPS before digging down to change it.
>
> The service manual states to test the CPS with the DRB II diagnostic
> scan tool. Lacking that, the quick and dirty test is to place an
> ohmmeter across terminals B and C. Near the rear of the intake
> manifold, disconnect sensor pigtail harness connector from main wiring
> harness. Looking into the CPS connector, with the clip up, you will
> see a notch on the right side. In that position, the terminals read
> A, B, C left to right. Ohmmeter should be set to 1K-to-10K scale for
> this test. The meter reading should be open (no resistance). Replace
> sensor if a low resistance is indicated. All taken from the official
> 1993 Service Manual for the Jeep Grand Cherokee.
>
> ----

Jerry Newton

Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is developing.
Definitely check that.

As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel pressure
with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is no
CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on, but no
continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on the
fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse. It
doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.

Hope you have a fruitful morning.

Jerry


"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> I made some comments below.
>
> "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
worry
> > about the ASR.
>
> I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
>
> >
> > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor, PCM
> will
> > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay, interrupting
> > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > condition).
>
> Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
morning,
> this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
>
> >
> > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> vehicles
> > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was caused by
> > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
there
> is
> > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
ground
> > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due to
the
> > extra conductivity of the air.
>
> If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been steadily
> getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does that
> info sway your thoughts in any way?
> At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned out
to
> be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems but
> run well once started?
>
> >
> > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see if
> > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it out.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I can't
> evern
> > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > >
> > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Doug,
> > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted out
the
> > > 'base'
> > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> another
> > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high points on
> it.
> > > This
> > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it to
have
> 6
> > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
reference
> > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this part:
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of the
> > > shaft.
> > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at least
> > gave
> > > a
> > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
start.
> > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way too.
> > > > >Denny
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but common
> > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed to
the
> > > > shaft.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Jerry Newton

Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is developing.
Definitely check that.

As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel pressure
with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is no
CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on, but no
continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on the
fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse. It
doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.

Hope you have a fruitful morning.

Jerry


"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> I made some comments below.
>
> "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
worry
> > about the ASR.
>
> I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
>
> >
> > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor, PCM
> will
> > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay, interrupting
> > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > condition).
>
> Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
morning,
> this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
>
> >
> > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> vehicles
> > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was caused by
> > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
there
> is
> > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
ground
> > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due to
the
> > extra conductivity of the air.
>
> If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been steadily
> getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does that
> info sway your thoughts in any way?
> At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned out
to
> be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems but
> run well once started?
>
> >
> > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see if
> > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it out.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I can't
> evern
> > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > >
> > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Doug,
> > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted out
the
> > > 'base'
> > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> another
> > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high points on
> it.
> > > This
> > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it to
have
> 6
> > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
reference
> > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this part:
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of the
> > > shaft.
> > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at least
> > gave
> > > a
> > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
start.
> > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way too.
> > > > >Denny
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but common
> > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed to
the
> > > > shaft.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Jerry Newton

Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is developing.
Definitely check that.

As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel pressure
with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is no
CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on, but no
continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on the
fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse. It
doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.

Hope you have a fruitful morning.

Jerry


"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> I made some comments below.
>
> "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
worry
> > about the ASR.
>
> I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
>
> >
> > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor, PCM
> will
> > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay, interrupting
> > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > condition).
>
> Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
morning,
> this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
>
> >
> > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> vehicles
> > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was caused by
> > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
there
> is
> > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
ground
> > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due to
the
> > extra conductivity of the air.
>
> If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been steadily
> getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does that
> info sway your thoughts in any way?
> At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned out
to
> be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems but
> run well once started?
>
> >
> > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see if
> > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it out.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I can't
> evern
> > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > >
> > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Doug,
> > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted out
the
> > > 'base'
> > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> another
> > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high points on
> it.
> > > This
> > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it to
have
> 6
> > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
reference
> > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this part:
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of the
> > > shaft.
> > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at least
> > gave
> > > a
> > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
start.
> > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way too.
> > > > >Denny
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but common
> > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed to
the
> > > > shaft.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

D

Thanks again Jerry.
Might have something here. Check me out.
The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the tower
connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting here
on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing or
ground.
Sound like a bad coil to you?

"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is developing.
> Definitely check that.
>
> As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
pressure
> with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is no
> CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on, but
no
> continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
> think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on the
> fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse. It
> doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
>
> Hope you have a fruitful morning.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > I made some comments below.
> >
> > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
> worry
> > > about the ASR.
> >
> > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> >
> > >
> > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor,
PCM
> > will
> > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay, interrupting
> > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > condition).
> >
> > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> morning,
> > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> >
> > >
> > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > vehicles
> > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was caused
by
> > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
> there
> > is
> > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> ground
> > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due to
> the
> > > extra conductivity of the air.
> >
> > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
steadily
> > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does
that
> > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned out
> to
> > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems
but
> > run well once started?
> >
> > >
> > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see
if
> > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it
out.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I can't
> > evern
> > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > >
> > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted out
> the
> > > > 'base'
> > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> > another
> > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high points
on
> > it.
> > > > This
> > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it to
> have
> > 6
> > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> reference
> > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
part:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of
the
> > > > shaft.
> > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
least
> > > gave
> > > > a
> > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> start.
> > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way too.
> > > > > >Denny
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
common
> > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed to
> the
> > > > > shaft.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

D

Thanks again Jerry.
Might have something here. Check me out.
The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the tower
connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting here
on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing or
ground.
Sound like a bad coil to you?

"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is developing.
> Definitely check that.
>
> As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
pressure
> with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is no
> CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on, but
no
> continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
> think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on the
> fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse. It
> doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
>
> Hope you have a fruitful morning.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > I made some comments below.
> >
> > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
> worry
> > > about the ASR.
> >
> > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> >
> > >
> > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor,
PCM
> > will
> > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay, interrupting
> > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > condition).
> >
> > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> morning,
> > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> >
> > >
> > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > vehicles
> > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was caused
by
> > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
> there
> > is
> > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> ground
> > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due to
> the
> > > extra conductivity of the air.
> >
> > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
steadily
> > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does
that
> > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned out
> to
> > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems
but
> > run well once started?
> >
> > >
> > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see
if
> > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it
out.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I can't
> > evern
> > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > >
> > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted out
> the
> > > > 'base'
> > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> > another
> > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high points
on
> > it.
> > > > This
> > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it to
> have
> > 6
> > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> reference
> > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
part:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of
the
> > > > shaft.
> > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
least
> > > gave
> > > > a
> > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> start.
> > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way too.
> > > > > >Denny
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
common
> > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed to
> the
> > > > > shaft.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>