RoyJ

Keep in mind that some states ban studded tires.
http://www.rma.org/tire_safety/tire_...tions_2004.cfm

Biggest states with bans are Minnesota, Wisconsin, & Michigan

MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:

> scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
>> ect.
>> are cables better than chains,
>> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
>> thanks,
>> johnp
>>
> i think that with either of them, you can't go over 20mph. i have
> studded snows on my 93 YJ and it's practically unstoppable.
>

RoyJ

Keep in mind that some states ban studded tires.
http://www.rma.org/tire_safety/tire_...tions_2004.cfm

Biggest states with bans are Minnesota, Wisconsin, & Michigan

MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:

> scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
>> ect.
>> are cables better than chains,
>> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
>> thanks,
>> johnp
>>
> i think that with either of them, you can't go over 20mph. i have
> studded snows on my 93 YJ and it's practically unstoppable.
>

RoyJ

Keep in mind that some states ban studded tires.
http://www.rma.org/tire_safety/tire_...tions_2004.cfm

Biggest states with bans are Minnesota, Wisconsin, & Michigan

MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:

> scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
>> ect.
>> are cables better than chains,
>> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
>> thanks,
>> johnp
>>
> i think that with either of them, you can't go over 20mph. i have
> studded snows on my 93 YJ and it's practically unstoppable.
>

MudPuppy76

RoyJ wrote:

> Keep in mind that some states ban studded tires.
> http://www.rma.org/tire_safety/tire_...tions_2004.cfm
>
>
> Biggest states with bans are Minnesota, Wisconsin, & Michigan
>
> MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
>
>> scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
>>> ect.
>>> are cables better than chains,
>>> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
>>> thanks,
>>> johnp
>>>
>> i think that with either of them, you can't go over 20mph. i have
>> studded snows on my 93 YJ and it's practically unstoppable.
>>
see, that i didn't know. well, in that case, i
would think that you'd have to figure out cables
or chains having a higher profile to give you a
better bite when you put them on.

definitely on all four tires (if you put them on
the front with oversize tires you will have to
adjust the steering stops, or the leaf spring will
rip your chains right off)

--
Ben Jerew
ASE Master Technician
New Country Lexus of Latham, NY
Amateur Off-Roader

MudPuppy76

RoyJ wrote:

> Keep in mind that some states ban studded tires.
> http://www.rma.org/tire_safety/tire_...tions_2004.cfm
>
>
> Biggest states with bans are Minnesota, Wisconsin, & Michigan
>
> MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
>
>> scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
>>> ect.
>>> are cables better than chains,
>>> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
>>> thanks,
>>> johnp
>>>
>> i think that with either of them, you can't go over 20mph. i have
>> studded snows on my 93 YJ and it's practically unstoppable.
>>
see, that i didn't know. well, in that case, i
would think that you'd have to figure out cables
or chains having a higher profile to give you a
better bite when you put them on.

definitely on all four tires (if you put them on
the front with oversize tires you will have to
adjust the steering stops, or the leaf spring will
rip your chains right off)

--
Ben Jerew
ASE Master Technician
New Country Lexus of Latham, NY
Amateur Off-Roader

MudPuppy76

RoyJ wrote:

> Keep in mind that some states ban studded tires.
> http://www.rma.org/tire_safety/tire_...tions_2004.cfm
>
>
> Biggest states with bans are Minnesota, Wisconsin, & Michigan
>
> MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> wrote:
>
>> scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
>>> ect.
>>> are cables better than chains,
>>> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
>>> thanks,
>>> johnp
>>>
>> i think that with either of them, you can't go over 20mph. i have
>> studded snows on my 93 YJ and it's practically unstoppable.
>>
see, that i didn't know. well, in that case, i
would think that you'd have to figure out cables
or chains having a higher profile to give you a
better bite when you put them on.

definitely on all four tires (if you put them on
the front with oversize tires you will have to
adjust the steering stops, or the leaf spring will
rip your chains right off)

--
Ben Jerew
ASE Master Technician
New Country Lexus of Latham, NY
Amateur Off-Roader

RoyJ

Cables have a lower profile to the tire, will clear fenderwells better.
They can be run at higher speeds, but they are not as agressive in deep
snow/mud. Chains are much more agressive, are much bumpier to ride on,
and have clearnace issues in the fenderwells.

Part time 4wd like used on Jeep Wrangler wants to see all 4 tires the
same diameter to avoid extra stress on transfer case. While cables won't
really affect that, the chains are likely to translate to a larger tire
diameter. In snow deep enough to require chains, that is pretty much
irrelevant.

Tires are probably more important than chains. Wide tires do not do as
well as tall narrow tires. ie for the same brand and tread, a 9.50x31
beats a 10.50 x31 and both beat a 11.50 x32 The narrow tread tends to
dig down further, lets the tread bite into something solid.

But as soon as you get out of the deep snow, everthing changes. I do not
run my big lug MT's in the winter. Most of my winter driving is on
packed, plowed, or slushy roads. The big lugs just slide, an agressive
AT tire is MUCH better. My turning point on that was when I was on a
slushy road, the light turned red, I locked the brakes, slid all the way
through the intersection and stopped at the crosswalk on the FAR side.
New tires the same week.

I'd suggest that good tires, 4wd, and some sane driving habbits are
pretty much all you need. There are some interesting pix posted by jbjeep
http://jbjeep.terahex.com/NYD05/NYD05.html
None of those are running chains. 'Nuff said.

Cheers. Drive safe, 4wd just means you can get going better, doesn't do
anything about stopping better.

scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
> ect.
> are cables better than chains,
> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
> thanks,
> johnp
>

RoyJ

Cables have a lower profile to the tire, will clear fenderwells better.
They can be run at higher speeds, but they are not as agressive in deep
snow/mud. Chains are much more agressive, are much bumpier to ride on,
and have clearnace issues in the fenderwells.

Part time 4wd like used on Jeep Wrangler wants to see all 4 tires the
same diameter to avoid extra stress on transfer case. While cables won't
really affect that, the chains are likely to translate to a larger tire
diameter. In snow deep enough to require chains, that is pretty much
irrelevant.

Tires are probably more important than chains. Wide tires do not do as
well as tall narrow tires. ie for the same brand and tread, a 9.50x31
beats a 10.50 x31 and both beat a 11.50 x32 The narrow tread tends to
dig down further, lets the tread bite into something solid.

But as soon as you get out of the deep snow, everthing changes. I do not
run my big lug MT's in the winter. Most of my winter driving is on
packed, plowed, or slushy roads. The big lugs just slide, an agressive
AT tire is MUCH better. My turning point on that was when I was on a
slushy road, the light turned red, I locked the brakes, slid all the way
through the intersection and stopped at the crosswalk on the FAR side.
New tires the same week.

I'd suggest that good tires, 4wd, and some sane driving habbits are
pretty much all you need. There are some interesting pix posted by jbjeep
http://jbjeep.terahex.com/NYD05/NYD05.html
None of those are running chains. 'Nuff said.

Cheers. Drive safe, 4wd just means you can get going better, doesn't do
anything about stopping better.

scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
> ect.
> are cables better than chains,
> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
> thanks,
> johnp
>

RoyJ

Cables have a lower profile to the tire, will clear fenderwells better.
They can be run at higher speeds, but they are not as agressive in deep
snow/mud. Chains are much more agressive, are much bumpier to ride on,
and have clearnace issues in the fenderwells.

Part time 4wd like used on Jeep Wrangler wants to see all 4 tires the
same diameter to avoid extra stress on transfer case. While cables won't
really affect that, the chains are likely to translate to a larger tire
diameter. In snow deep enough to require chains, that is pretty much
irrelevant.

Tires are probably more important than chains. Wide tires do not do as
well as tall narrow tires. ie for the same brand and tread, a 9.50x31
beats a 10.50 x31 and both beat a 11.50 x32 The narrow tread tends to
dig down further, lets the tread bite into something solid.

But as soon as you get out of the deep snow, everthing changes. I do not
run my big lug MT's in the winter. Most of my winter driving is on
packed, plowed, or slushy roads. The big lugs just slide, an agressive
AT tire is MUCH better. My turning point on that was when I was on a
slushy road, the light turned red, I locked the brakes, slid all the way
through the intersection and stopped at the crosswalk on the FAR side.
New tires the same week.

I'd suggest that good tires, 4wd, and some sane driving habbits are
pretty much all you need. There are some interesting pix posted by jbjeep
http://jbjeep.terahex.com/NYD05/NYD05.html
None of those are running chains. 'Nuff said.

Cheers. Drive safe, 4wd just means you can get going better, doesn't do
anything about stopping better.

scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
> ect.
> are cables better than chains,
> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
> thanks,
> johnp
>

Lon

MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> proclaimed:

> Lon wrote:
>
>> MudPuppy76 <"<moc.rr.pacyn"@"pupralop"> proclaimed:
>>
>>> scopenutt@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> looking for advice, when driving on snow, on pavement,,,mnt.-passes
>>>> ect.
>>>> are cables better than chains,
>>>> do i want cables/chains, for all four tires?
>>>> thanks,
>>>> johnp
>>>>
>>> i think that with either of them, you can't go over 20mph. i have
>>> studded snows on my 93 YJ and it's practically unstoppable.
>>>
>> A good set of cable chains properly tightened will allow over 20mph
>> with considerably less jaw rattling than normal chains. Not that it
>> is particularly a good idea to be doing much over 20 if the road is
>> bad enough to need chains on a 4x4. Only thing I hate about studs
>> is that you can't quickly pop them in when you need them, then
>> remove them on the dry stuff.
>
> well, studs are noisier to be sure, but then, i only run them in the
> winter months. this year in upstate NY was pretty stupid idea (no snow,
> WTF?) but in the summer i run BFG Mud-Terrains, and they're a bit
> noisier than the studs.
>
> any particular reason you wouldn't want to run studs on dry pavement?
> keep in mind i'm not familiar with driving out west, if that makes a
> difference.
>
Depends on the terrain out west. Some states allow a pretty long
stud season, others very short. Main reason is that you limit
your speed and put nasty wear grooves about a tire wide in the
highway that make heavy rain "interesting".

I've had pretty good luck with the silica filled studless low
temp tires being darned near as good as studs...with cable
chains for those occasions where a smarter person would
probably stay indoors.