L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

As a temporary fix, I'd stick a washer each side between the
starter and block, to shim it back. This means your crankshaft thrust
bearing is bad, very rare, and only happens when the clutch is being
ridden for extended periods. Bummer, the throws usually take out the
pistons, not worth repairing.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Bolt out. Thanks.
>
> I believe that the starter problem has been solved, or will be solved.
> See if this makes any sense to those in "the know".
>
> Apparently, the bearings in the drive shaft are believed to be worn
> down in side the engine. This then allows a small amount of play in
> drive shaft. The clutch pushes on the flywheel smashing it into the
> starter, ripping out the teeth. After my replacement of flywheel,
> starter, and clutch compression pad.......when the clutch is depressed
> and started, there is a very nasty clanging sound. When the clutch is
> not depressed and started (in nuetral) there is no claning sound at
> all. How does that sound?
>
> I read something on this group site a while ago about the cam shaft
> being worn down and leading a similar fate for a starter. Could that
> also play?
>
> I have yet to tackle the heater system due to the frustration with the
> starting. Thanks for all the help, I am sure it will help.
>
> Mark

Earle Horton

If this is the case, then he should be able to test the crankshaft end play
at the harmonic balancer. Normally, one would use a dial gauge, but the way
this sounds, a tape measure might work.

Mark, grab the belt drive pulley, on the crankshaft, and see if you can pull
it in and out, with an audible "thunk". The best place from which to do
this, is probably from under the front of the engine. If the thrust bearing
is excessively worn, you would also have oil leaking onto the front of the
flywheel, contributing to your starter problems.

Earle

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4484A8C4.C1461E57@***.net...
> As a temporary fix, I'd stick a washer each side between the
> starter and block, to shim it back. This means your crankshaft thrust
> bearing is bad, very rare, and only happens when the clutch is being
> ridden for extended periods. Bummer, the throws usually take out the
> pistons, not worth repairing.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Bolt out. Thanks.
> >
> > I believe that the starter problem has been solved, or will be solved.
> > See if this makes any sense to those in "the know".
> >
> > Apparently, the bearings in the drive shaft are believed to be worn
> > down in side the engine. This then allows a small amount of play in
> > drive shaft. The clutch pushes on the flywheel smashing it into the
> > starter, ripping out the teeth. After my replacement of flywheel,
> > starter, and clutch compression pad.......when the clutch is depressed
> > and started, there is a very nasty clanging sound. When the clutch is
> > not depressed and started (in nuetral) there is no claning sound at
> > all. How does that sound?
> >
> > I read something on this group site a while ago about the cam shaft
> > being worn down and leading a similar fate for a starter. Could that
> > also play?
> >
> > I have yet to tackle the heater system due to the frustration with the
> > starting. Thanks for all the help, I am sure it will help.
> >
> > Mark



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Earle Horton

If this is the case, then he should be able to test the crankshaft end play
at the harmonic balancer. Normally, one would use a dial gauge, but the way
this sounds, a tape measure might work.

Mark, grab the belt drive pulley, on the crankshaft, and see if you can pull
it in and out, with an audible "thunk". The best place from which to do
this, is probably from under the front of the engine. If the thrust bearing
is excessively worn, you would also have oil leaking onto the front of the
flywheel, contributing to your starter problems.

Earle

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4484A8C4.C1461E57@***.net...
> As a temporary fix, I'd stick a washer each side between the
> starter and block, to shim it back. This means your crankshaft thrust
> bearing is bad, very rare, and only happens when the clutch is being
> ridden for extended periods. Bummer, the throws usually take out the
> pistons, not worth repairing.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Bolt out. Thanks.
> >
> > I believe that the starter problem has been solved, or will be solved.
> > See if this makes any sense to those in "the know".
> >
> > Apparently, the bearings in the drive shaft are believed to be worn
> > down in side the engine. This then allows a small amount of play in
> > drive shaft. The clutch pushes on the flywheel smashing it into the
> > starter, ripping out the teeth. After my replacement of flywheel,
> > starter, and clutch compression pad.......when the clutch is depressed
> > and started, there is a very nasty clanging sound. When the clutch is
> > not depressed and started (in nuetral) there is no claning sound at
> > all. How does that sound?
> >
> > I read something on this group site a while ago about the cam shaft
> > being worn down and leading a similar fate for a starter. Could that
> > also play?
> >
> > I have yet to tackle the heater system due to the frustration with the
> > starting. Thanks for all the help, I am sure it will help.
> >
> > Mark



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Earle Horton

If this is the case, then he should be able to test the crankshaft end play
at the harmonic balancer. Normally, one would use a dial gauge, but the way
this sounds, a tape measure might work.

Mark, grab the belt drive pulley, on the crankshaft, and see if you can pull
it in and out, with an audible "thunk". The best place from which to do
this, is probably from under the front of the engine. If the thrust bearing
is excessively worn, you would also have oil leaking onto the front of the
flywheel, contributing to your starter problems.

Earle

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4484A8C4.C1461E57@***.net...
> As a temporary fix, I'd stick a washer each side between the
> starter and block, to shim it back. This means your crankshaft thrust
> bearing is bad, very rare, and only happens when the clutch is being
> ridden for extended periods. Bummer, the throws usually take out the
> pistons, not worth repairing.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Bolt out. Thanks.
> >
> > I believe that the starter problem has been solved, or will be solved.
> > See if this makes any sense to those in "the know".
> >
> > Apparently, the bearings in the drive shaft are believed to be worn
> > down in side the engine. This then allows a small amount of play in
> > drive shaft. The clutch pushes on the flywheel smashing it into the
> > starter, ripping out the teeth. After my replacement of flywheel,
> > starter, and clutch compression pad.......when the clutch is depressed
> > and started, there is a very nasty clanging sound. When the clutch is
> > not depressed and started (in nuetral) there is no claning sound at
> > all. How does that sound?
> >
> > I read something on this group site a while ago about the cam shaft
> > being worn down and leading a similar fate for a starter. Could that
> > also play?
> >
> > I have yet to tackle the heater system due to the frustration with the
> > starting. Thanks for all the help, I am sure it will help.
> >
> > Mark



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Yup.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> If this is the case, then he should be able to test the crankshaft end play
> at the harmonic balancer. Normally, one would use a dial gauge, but the way
> this sounds, a tape measure might work.
>
> Mark, grab the belt drive pulley, on the crankshaft, and see if you can pull
> it in and out, with an audible "thunk". The best place from which to do
> this, is probably from under the front of the engine. If the thrust bearing
> is excessively worn, you would also have oil leaking onto the front of the
> flywheel, contributing to your starter problems.
>
> Earle

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Yup.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> If this is the case, then he should be able to test the crankshaft end play
> at the harmonic balancer. Normally, one would use a dial gauge, but the way
> this sounds, a tape measure might work.
>
> Mark, grab the belt drive pulley, on the crankshaft, and see if you can pull
> it in and out, with an audible "thunk". The best place from which to do
> this, is probably from under the front of the engine. If the thrust bearing
> is excessively worn, you would also have oil leaking onto the front of the
> flywheel, contributing to your starter problems.
>
> Earle

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

Yup.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> If this is the case, then he should be able to test the crankshaft end play
> at the harmonic balancer. Normally, one would use a dial gauge, but the way
> this sounds, a tape measure might work.
>
> Mark, grab the belt drive pulley, on the crankshaft, and see if you can pull
> it in and out, with an audible "thunk". The best place from which to do
> this, is probably from under the front of the engine. If the thrust bearing
> is excessively worn, you would also have oil leaking onto the front of the
> flywheel, contributing to your starter problems.
>
> Earle

Mike Romain

That does not make much sense. If the bearings are that worn, it should
be just puking oil out and the tell all is you will have no oil
pressure. Or the engine has been in a 'hard' front end accident which
can crush the thrust bearing.

As others have mentioned, if indeed the thrust bearing is gone, then you
will be able to pull in and out on the front crankshaft pulley with a
clunking noise.

If it is only that one bearing gone (how is the oil pressure?), you
'can' just open it and change the one part.

Do you have the correct flywheel in there? Why did you change it? When
the starter goes out and eats the flywheel teeth, you only have to
change the ring gear.

If the teeth are getting eaten it is more likely a bad bushing in the
nose of the starter.

What happens if you leave your foot off the clutch and just start in it
neutral.

A clanging sound is bad news. That needs to be figured out. Usually
that means someone forgot to tighten a bolt or the throwout bearing got
in wrong or is the wrong one.

Mike

markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Bolt out. Thanks.
>
> I believe that the starter problem has been solved, or will be solved.
> See if this makes any sense to those in "the know".
>
> Apparently, the bearings in the drive shaft are believed to be worn
> down in side the engine. This then allows a small amount of play in
> drive shaft. The clutch pushes on the flywheel smashing it into the
> starter, ripping out the teeth. After my replacement of flywheel,
> starter, and clutch compression pad.......when the clutch is depressed
> and started, there is a very nasty clanging sound. When the clutch is
> not depressed and started (in nuetral) there is no claning sound at
> all. How does that sound?
>
> I read something on this group site a while ago about the cam shaft
> being worn down and leading a similar fate for a starter. Could that
> also play?
>
> I have yet to tackle the heater system due to the frustration with the
> starting. Thanks for all the help, I am sure it will help.
>
> Mark
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > On those, I usually take a cut off wheel in a dremil or drill and cut a
> > straight line across the head of the bolt to make it like a slot head.
> > I then use a cold chisel and hammer to try and make it turn or put a bar
> > into the slot and pull while tapping it (the bolt head) with a hammer.
> >
> > You might want to drill a pin hole just above where the nut should be so
> > you can get some good penetrating oil in there and soak it many times
> > over a few days.
> >
> > You can leave the heater in place and just open the dash to get at all
> > the cables, but if you have gone that far, the GM blow motor upgrade is
> > great. The radio and glove box will be in the way of getting at the
> > fresh air vs heat cable. Once you have opened it the first time, then
> > you or I at least have long enough arms to muck around under there
> > without being able to see what I am doing. That top lever system for
> > the fresh air can get bitchy. My grease has dried out, so I have to
> > reach wayyy up there and flip the sucker if I want fresh floor air. I
> > need to pull my dash soon and re-grease the cables and change the
> > voltage regulator for the fuel and temp out for an electronic one I made
> > up.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the info on these repairs. I am going to attempt to
> > > tackle the heating problem at some point this summer. I am missing
> > > several parts from comparisons to the repair manuals that may have
> > > rusted off or disappeared over the years. I will attempt to track all
> > > these down. Is it necessary to remove the entire heater assembly
> > > before repairing these cables?
> > >
> > > I have one other question, for all you gear heads and tinkerers. What
> > > is best way to get a bolt out that is stripped and won't budge? I had
> > > to replace my seat belts as my 20 year old ones were wearing pretty
> > > thin. The bolt that holds the seat belt retraction mechanism (at the
> > > bottom) stripped like a hot knife through butter...stupid torx bolts.
> > > anyways, I have to remove this bolt and I don't know how. Mechanics
> > > that I have talked to don't even want to touch this one either. It is
> > > a harden bolt where the back is not accessible. I have heard that
> > > heating the bolt can be one way to remove it? How does one do this and
> > > does that work? I have not had luck drilling bolts out in the past,
> > > even very small ones, I don't want to try to drill this sucker out.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > M

Mike Romain

That does not make much sense. If the bearings are that worn, it should
be just puking oil out and the tell all is you will have no oil
pressure. Or the engine has been in a 'hard' front end accident which
can crush the thrust bearing.

As others have mentioned, if indeed the thrust bearing is gone, then you
will be able to pull in and out on the front crankshaft pulley with a
clunking noise.

If it is only that one bearing gone (how is the oil pressure?), you
'can' just open it and change the one part.

Do you have the correct flywheel in there? Why did you change it? When
the starter goes out and eats the flywheel teeth, you only have to
change the ring gear.

If the teeth are getting eaten it is more likely a bad bushing in the
nose of the starter.

What happens if you leave your foot off the clutch and just start in it
neutral.

A clanging sound is bad news. That needs to be figured out. Usually
that means someone forgot to tighten a bolt or the throwout bearing got
in wrong or is the wrong one.

Mike

markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Bolt out. Thanks.
>
> I believe that the starter problem has been solved, or will be solved.
> See if this makes any sense to those in "the know".
>
> Apparently, the bearings in the drive shaft are believed to be worn
> down in side the engine. This then allows a small amount of play in
> drive shaft. The clutch pushes on the flywheel smashing it into the
> starter, ripping out the teeth. After my replacement of flywheel,
> starter, and clutch compression pad.......when the clutch is depressed
> and started, there is a very nasty clanging sound. When the clutch is
> not depressed and started (in nuetral) there is no claning sound at
> all. How does that sound?
>
> I read something on this group site a while ago about the cam shaft
> being worn down and leading a similar fate for a starter. Could that
> also play?
>
> I have yet to tackle the heater system due to the frustration with the
> starting. Thanks for all the help, I am sure it will help.
>
> Mark
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > On those, I usually take a cut off wheel in a dremil or drill and cut a
> > straight line across the head of the bolt to make it like a slot head.
> > I then use a cold chisel and hammer to try and make it turn or put a bar
> > into the slot and pull while tapping it (the bolt head) with a hammer.
> >
> > You might want to drill a pin hole just above where the nut should be so
> > you can get some good penetrating oil in there and soak it many times
> > over a few days.
> >
> > You can leave the heater in place and just open the dash to get at all
> > the cables, but if you have gone that far, the GM blow motor upgrade is
> > great. The radio and glove box will be in the way of getting at the
> > fresh air vs heat cable. Once you have opened it the first time, then
> > you or I at least have long enough arms to muck around under there
> > without being able to see what I am doing. That top lever system for
> > the fresh air can get bitchy. My grease has dried out, so I have to
> > reach wayyy up there and flip the sucker if I want fresh floor air. I
> > need to pull my dash soon and re-grease the cables and change the
> > voltage regulator for the fuel and temp out for an electronic one I made
> > up.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the info on these repairs. I am going to attempt to
> > > tackle the heating problem at some point this summer. I am missing
> > > several parts from comparisons to the repair manuals that may have
> > > rusted off or disappeared over the years. I will attempt to track all
> > > these down. Is it necessary to remove the entire heater assembly
> > > before repairing these cables?
> > >
> > > I have one other question, for all you gear heads and tinkerers. What
> > > is best way to get a bolt out that is stripped and won't budge? I had
> > > to replace my seat belts as my 20 year old ones were wearing pretty
> > > thin. The bolt that holds the seat belt retraction mechanism (at the
> > > bottom) stripped like a hot knife through butter...stupid torx bolts.
> > > anyways, I have to remove this bolt and I don't know how. Mechanics
> > > that I have talked to don't even want to touch this one either. It is
> > > a harden bolt where the back is not accessible. I have heard that
> > > heating the bolt can be one way to remove it? How does one do this and
> > > does that work? I have not had luck drilling bolts out in the past,
> > > even very small ones, I don't want to try to drill this sucker out.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > M

Mike Romain

That does not make much sense. If the bearings are that worn, it should
be just puking oil out and the tell all is you will have no oil
pressure. Or the engine has been in a 'hard' front end accident which
can crush the thrust bearing.

As others have mentioned, if indeed the thrust bearing is gone, then you
will be able to pull in and out on the front crankshaft pulley with a
clunking noise.

If it is only that one bearing gone (how is the oil pressure?), you
'can' just open it and change the one part.

Do you have the correct flywheel in there? Why did you change it? When
the starter goes out and eats the flywheel teeth, you only have to
change the ring gear.

If the teeth are getting eaten it is more likely a bad bushing in the
nose of the starter.

What happens if you leave your foot off the clutch and just start in it
neutral.

A clanging sound is bad news. That needs to be figured out. Usually
that means someone forgot to tighten a bolt or the throwout bearing got
in wrong or is the wrong one.

Mike

markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Bolt out. Thanks.
>
> I believe that the starter problem has been solved, or will be solved.
> See if this makes any sense to those in "the know".
>
> Apparently, the bearings in the drive shaft are believed to be worn
> down in side the engine. This then allows a small amount of play in
> drive shaft. The clutch pushes on the flywheel smashing it into the
> starter, ripping out the teeth. After my replacement of flywheel,
> starter, and clutch compression pad.......when the clutch is depressed
> and started, there is a very nasty clanging sound. When the clutch is
> not depressed and started (in nuetral) there is no claning sound at
> all. How does that sound?
>
> I read something on this group site a while ago about the cam shaft
> being worn down and leading a similar fate for a starter. Could that
> also play?
>
> I have yet to tackle the heater system due to the frustration with the
> starting. Thanks for all the help, I am sure it will help.
>
> Mark
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > On those, I usually take a cut off wheel in a dremil or drill and cut a
> > straight line across the head of the bolt to make it like a slot head.
> > I then use a cold chisel and hammer to try and make it turn or put a bar
> > into the slot and pull while tapping it (the bolt head) with a hammer.
> >
> > You might want to drill a pin hole just above where the nut should be so
> > you can get some good penetrating oil in there and soak it many times
> > over a few days.
> >
> > You can leave the heater in place and just open the dash to get at all
> > the cables, but if you have gone that far, the GM blow motor upgrade is
> > great. The radio and glove box will be in the way of getting at the
> > fresh air vs heat cable. Once you have opened it the first time, then
> > you or I at least have long enough arms to muck around under there
> > without being able to see what I am doing. That top lever system for
> > the fresh air can get bitchy. My grease has dried out, so I have to
> > reach wayyy up there and flip the sucker if I want fresh floor air. I
> > need to pull my dash soon and re-grease the cables and change the
> > voltage regulator for the fuel and temp out for an electronic one I made
> > up.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the info on these repairs. I am going to attempt to
> > > tackle the heating problem at some point this summer. I am missing
> > > several parts from comparisons to the repair manuals that may have
> > > rusted off or disappeared over the years. I will attempt to track all
> > > these down. Is it necessary to remove the entire heater assembly
> > > before repairing these cables?
> > >
> > > I have one other question, for all you gear heads and tinkerers. What
> > > is best way to get a bolt out that is stripped and won't budge? I had
> > > to replace my seat belts as my 20 year old ones were wearing pretty
> > > thin. The bolt that holds the seat belt retraction mechanism (at the
> > > bottom) stripped like a hot knife through butter...stupid torx bolts.
> > > anyways, I have to remove this bolt and I don't know how. Mechanics
> > > that I have talked to don't even want to touch this one either. It is
> > > a harden bolt where the back is not accessible. I have heard that
> > > heating the bolt can be one way to remove it? How does one do this and
> > > does that work? I have not had luck drilling bolts out in the past,
> > > even very small ones, I don't want to try to drill this sucker out.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > M