Earle Horton

I wonder also if this vehicle has a bolt hole in the clutch housing out of
place. Modern quality control and manufacturing methods seem to preclude
this, but I have seen stranger things happen.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44730BCA.AD5C965B@sympatico.ca...
> The starter had to be loose to snap a bolt. Maybe you have been using
> the wrong bolts all along?
>
> We 'kill' starters like crazy when we used to mud run. The mud packs up
> inside of them and seizes up the brushes when it dries out. Rather than
> having to replace them, we open them up and give them a good spray with
> WD40 to clean all the crap out, then regrease parts as needed and put
> them back in.
>
> That said, the brand of starter you are using could just be plain bad.
> I got a bad couple of 'rebuilt' starters that did kill my ring gear so I
> went to a different brand with the new gear. Sure the damn starters
> were under warranty, but they didn't cover the engine removal to replace
> the ring gear or the gear itself.
>
> I highly recommend you get the Haynes 'CJ' manual. This one covers your
> CJ engine and heating system 1000 times better than the YJ book. All
> your cables need a good grease job once in a while. I did mine 6 years
> ago and need to do them again soon because the top fresh air cable is
> getting too stiff again.
>
> Some people say they can get the heater out if they remove the passenger
> side seat for room, but taking the dash off is by far the best way.
> There is one real nasty nut to undo that sits at the edge of the valve
> cover on the engine side firewall.
>
> When I had mine apart, I upgraded to a massive GM heater blower motor.
> This motor fits right into the heater box and literally puts out more on
> low than the stock motor put out on high. I can defrost all the windows
> and drive in -20 with no gloves or boots needed.
>
> http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/body/heater.html
>
> You are likely in for trouble with the gas tank skid plate. If it is
> that rusty, the bolts are not likely to come out. The bolts into the
> rear crossmember are carriage bolts so you can cut them off and push out
> the heads. The front ones have nuts on them. A grinder or dremil tool
> with a fiberglass cut off wheel can be real handy for getting them
> apart.
>
> The gas tank comes down with the skid plate, so an empty tank is
> recommended.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Specs: 1987 YJ 6cyc 4.2L BBL, 4" rancho lift
> >
> > I have read much about starter problems in this group and still need to
> > seek some advice.
> >
> > I have replaced my starter every year for the past 4 years, now I have
> > put in three straight starters within the past month. It seems like
> > recently they are fine for approximately 10-12 starts and then they
> > crap out on me. For the first few, I replaced them myself, but then
> > have since gone to a dealership to have work done by a "professional"
> > and to get a better warranty. There is no damage or signs of damage to
> > the flywheel and it seems to make good contact. The last visit to the
> > mechanic left with the resolution that a "bolt" had broken off that
> > mounted the starter, thus causing it to physically move. If this has
> > occurred 3 straight times, I am inclined to believe that something is
> > causing more tension than need be? Or could it just be a faulty
> > bolt.......3 times in a row? Has anyone else run into a string of back
> > luck such as this with a starter? The dealership mechanic is very
> > talented and solved my carb problem several years back, but they can't
> > seem to make any sense of this either. Once started it runs like a
> > top!
> >
> > I am not very mechanically inclined, I can do the easy stuff and I like
> > to tinker, but can't trouble shoot tough things very well, so please
> > reply in easy terminology or at least define things.
> >
> > Please, someone give me hope! (inexpensive hope)
> >
> > A few other questions:
> >
> > My tank skid plate is nearly rusted through. Is replacing the gas tank
> > skid plate an easy affair, or will I have to drop the gas tank as well?
> > Will the replacement plates come with new bolts, or is this something
> > I should purchase before I start, or will the old ones do?
> >
> > My heating and venting system doesn't operate very fluidly, I have to
> > poke open the vents with a stick in the summer and manually move the
> > heater in the winter. Are there repair kits made for this mouse trap
> > system (pulleys and levers) of heating and cooling on old wranglers?
> > Is it reasonably accessible, or would the dash need to be removed?
> > Also, it seems like I am always getting heat on the drivers side feet
> > no matter if the heat is on or not. Is that exhaust heat? Am I
> > missing something crucial?
> >
> > Thanks!

Earle Horton

I wonder also if this vehicle has a bolt hole in the clutch housing out of
place. Modern quality control and manufacturing methods seem to preclude
this, but I have seen stranger things happen.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44730BCA.AD5C965B@sympatico.ca...
> The starter had to be loose to snap a bolt. Maybe you have been using
> the wrong bolts all along?
>
> We 'kill' starters like crazy when we used to mud run. The mud packs up
> inside of them and seizes up the brushes when it dries out. Rather than
> having to replace them, we open them up and give them a good spray with
> WD40 to clean all the crap out, then regrease parts as needed and put
> them back in.
>
> That said, the brand of starter you are using could just be plain bad.
> I got a bad couple of 'rebuilt' starters that did kill my ring gear so I
> went to a different brand with the new gear. Sure the damn starters
> were under warranty, but they didn't cover the engine removal to replace
> the ring gear or the gear itself.
>
> I highly recommend you get the Haynes 'CJ' manual. This one covers your
> CJ engine and heating system 1000 times better than the YJ book. All
> your cables need a good grease job once in a while. I did mine 6 years
> ago and need to do them again soon because the top fresh air cable is
> getting too stiff again.
>
> Some people say they can get the heater out if they remove the passenger
> side seat for room, but taking the dash off is by far the best way.
> There is one real nasty nut to undo that sits at the edge of the valve
> cover on the engine side firewall.
>
> When I had mine apart, I upgraded to a massive GM heater blower motor.
> This motor fits right into the heater box and literally puts out more on
> low than the stock motor put out on high. I can defrost all the windows
> and drive in -20 with no gloves or boots needed.
>
> http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/body/heater.html
>
> You are likely in for trouble with the gas tank skid plate. If it is
> that rusty, the bolts are not likely to come out. The bolts into the
> rear crossmember are carriage bolts so you can cut them off and push out
> the heads. The front ones have nuts on them. A grinder or dremil tool
> with a fiberglass cut off wheel can be real handy for getting them
> apart.
>
> The gas tank comes down with the skid plate, so an empty tank is
> recommended.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Specs: 1987 YJ 6cyc 4.2L BBL, 4" rancho lift
> >
> > I have read much about starter problems in this group and still need to
> > seek some advice.
> >
> > I have replaced my starter every year for the past 4 years, now I have
> > put in three straight starters within the past month. It seems like
> > recently they are fine for approximately 10-12 starts and then they
> > crap out on me. For the first few, I replaced them myself, but then
> > have since gone to a dealership to have work done by a "professional"
> > and to get a better warranty. There is no damage or signs of damage to
> > the flywheel and it seems to make good contact. The last visit to the
> > mechanic left with the resolution that a "bolt" had broken off that
> > mounted the starter, thus causing it to physically move. If this has
> > occurred 3 straight times, I am inclined to believe that something is
> > causing more tension than need be? Or could it just be a faulty
> > bolt.......3 times in a row? Has anyone else run into a string of back
> > luck such as this with a starter? The dealership mechanic is very
> > talented and solved my carb problem several years back, but they can't
> > seem to make any sense of this either. Once started it runs like a
> > top!
> >
> > I am not very mechanically inclined, I can do the easy stuff and I like
> > to tinker, but can't trouble shoot tough things very well, so please
> > reply in easy terminology or at least define things.
> >
> > Please, someone give me hope! (inexpensive hope)
> >
> > A few other questions:
> >
> > My tank skid plate is nearly rusted through. Is replacing the gas tank
> > skid plate an easy affair, or will I have to drop the gas tank as well?
> > Will the replacement plates come with new bolts, or is this something
> > I should purchase before I start, or will the old ones do?
> >
> > My heating and venting system doesn't operate very fluidly, I have to
> > poke open the vents with a stick in the summer and manually move the
> > heater in the winter. Are there repair kits made for this mouse trap
> > system (pulleys and levers) of heating and cooling on old wranglers?
> > Is it reasonably accessible, or would the dash need to be removed?
> > Also, it seems like I am always getting heat on the drivers side feet
> > no matter if the heat is on or not. Is that exhaust heat? Am I
> > missing something crucial?
> >
> > Thanks!

Earle Horton

I wonder also if this vehicle has a bolt hole in the clutch housing out of
place. Modern quality control and manufacturing methods seem to preclude
this, but I have seen stranger things happen.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44730BCA.AD5C965B@sympatico.ca...
> The starter had to be loose to snap a bolt. Maybe you have been using
> the wrong bolts all along?
>
> We 'kill' starters like crazy when we used to mud run. The mud packs up
> inside of them and seizes up the brushes when it dries out. Rather than
> having to replace them, we open them up and give them a good spray with
> WD40 to clean all the crap out, then regrease parts as needed and put
> them back in.
>
> That said, the brand of starter you are using could just be plain bad.
> I got a bad couple of 'rebuilt' starters that did kill my ring gear so I
> went to a different brand with the new gear. Sure the damn starters
> were under warranty, but they didn't cover the engine removal to replace
> the ring gear or the gear itself.
>
> I highly recommend you get the Haynes 'CJ' manual. This one covers your
> CJ engine and heating system 1000 times better than the YJ book. All
> your cables need a good grease job once in a while. I did mine 6 years
> ago and need to do them again soon because the top fresh air cable is
> getting too stiff again.
>
> Some people say they can get the heater out if they remove the passenger
> side seat for room, but taking the dash off is by far the best way.
> There is one real nasty nut to undo that sits at the edge of the valve
> cover on the engine side firewall.
>
> When I had mine apart, I upgraded to a massive GM heater blower motor.
> This motor fits right into the heater box and literally puts out more on
> low than the stock motor put out on high. I can defrost all the windows
> and drive in -20 with no gloves or boots needed.
>
> http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/body/heater.html
>
> You are likely in for trouble with the gas tank skid plate. If it is
> that rusty, the bolts are not likely to come out. The bolts into the
> rear crossmember are carriage bolts so you can cut them off and push out
> the heads. The front ones have nuts on them. A grinder or dremil tool
> with a fiberglass cut off wheel can be real handy for getting them
> apart.
>
> The gas tank comes down with the skid plate, so an empty tank is
> recommended.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> markbmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Specs: 1987 YJ 6cyc 4.2L BBL, 4" rancho lift
> >
> > I have read much about starter problems in this group and still need to
> > seek some advice.
> >
> > I have replaced my starter every year for the past 4 years, now I have
> > put in three straight starters within the past month. It seems like
> > recently they are fine for approximately 10-12 starts and then they
> > crap out on me. For the first few, I replaced them myself, but then
> > have since gone to a dealership to have work done by a "professional"
> > and to get a better warranty. There is no damage or signs of damage to
> > the flywheel and it seems to make good contact. The last visit to the
> > mechanic left with the resolution that a "bolt" had broken off that
> > mounted the starter, thus causing it to physically move. If this has
> > occurred 3 straight times, I am inclined to believe that something is
> > causing more tension than need be? Or could it just be a faulty
> > bolt.......3 times in a row? Has anyone else run into a string of back
> > luck such as this with a starter? The dealership mechanic is very
> > talented and solved my carb problem several years back, but they can't
> > seem to make any sense of this either. Once started it runs like a
> > top!
> >
> > I am not very mechanically inclined, I can do the easy stuff and I like
> > to tinker, but can't trouble shoot tough things very well, so please
> > reply in easy terminology or at least define things.
> >
> > Please, someone give me hope! (inexpensive hope)
> >
> > A few other questions:
> >
> > My tank skid plate is nearly rusted through. Is replacing the gas tank
> > skid plate an easy affair, or will I have to drop the gas tank as well?
> > Will the replacement plates come with new bolts, or is this something
> > I should purchase before I start, or will the old ones do?
> >
> > My heating and venting system doesn't operate very fluidly, I have to
> > poke open the vents with a stick in the summer and manually move the
> > heater in the winter. Are there repair kits made for this mouse trap
> > system (pulleys and levers) of heating and cooling on old wranglers?
> > Is it reasonably accessible, or would the dash need to be removed?
> > Also, it seems like I am always getting heat on the drivers side feet
> > no matter if the heat is on or not. Is that exhaust heat? Am I
> > missing something crucial?
> >
> > Thanks!

mark

Just for kicks...
Check the teeth on the flywheel. Are they cog-shaped, or are they
shark-tooth shaped. They need to be rather square looking or will continue
to eat starters.

--
mark



<markbmeyer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148332302.821899.83680@38g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
> Specs: 1987 YJ 6cyc 4.2L BBL, 4" rancho lift
>
> I have read much about starter problems in this group and still need to
> seek some advice.
>
> I have replaced my starter every year for the past 4 years, now I have
> put in three straight starters within the past month. It seems like
> recently they are fine for approximately 10-12 starts and then they
> crap out on me. For the first few, I replaced them myself, but then
> have since gone to a dealership to have work done by a "professional"
> and to get a better warranty. There is no damage or signs of damage to
> the flywheel and it seems to make good contact. The last visit to the
> mechanic left with the resolution that a "bolt" had broken off that
> mounted the starter, thus causing it to physically move. If this has
> occurred 3 straight times, I am inclined to believe that something is
> causing more tension than need be? Or could it just be a faulty
> bolt.......3 times in a row? Has anyone else run into a string of back
> luck such as this with a starter? The dealership mechanic is very
> talented and solved my carb problem several years back, but they can't
> seem to make any sense of this either. Once started it runs like a
> top!
>
> I am not very mechanically inclined, I can do the easy stuff and I like
> to tinker, but can't trouble shoot tough things very well, so please
> reply in easy terminology or at least define things.
>
> Please, someone give me hope! (inexpensive hope)
>
> A few other questions:
>
> My tank skid plate is nearly rusted through. Is replacing the gas tank
> skid plate an easy affair, or will I have to drop the gas tank as well?
> Will the replacement plates come with new bolts, or is this something
> I should purchase before I start, or will the old ones do?
>
> My heating and venting system doesn't operate very fluidly, I have to
> poke open the vents with a stick in the summer and manually move the
> heater in the winter. Are there repair kits made for this mouse trap
> system (pulleys and levers) of heating and cooling on old wranglers?
> Is it reasonably accessible, or would the dash need to be removed?
> Also, it seems like I am always getting heat on the drivers side feet
> no matter if the heat is on or not. Is that exhaust heat? Am I
> missing something crucial?
>
> Thanks!
>

mark

Just for kicks...
Check the teeth on the flywheel. Are they cog-shaped, or are they
shark-tooth shaped. They need to be rather square looking or will continue
to eat starters.

--
mark



<markbmeyer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148332302.821899.83680@38g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
> Specs: 1987 YJ 6cyc 4.2L BBL, 4" rancho lift
>
> I have read much about starter problems in this group and still need to
> seek some advice.
>
> I have replaced my starter every year for the past 4 years, now I have
> put in three straight starters within the past month. It seems like
> recently they are fine for approximately 10-12 starts and then they
> crap out on me. For the first few, I replaced them myself, but then
> have since gone to a dealership to have work done by a "professional"
> and to get a better warranty. There is no damage or signs of damage to
> the flywheel and it seems to make good contact. The last visit to the
> mechanic left with the resolution that a "bolt" had broken off that
> mounted the starter, thus causing it to physically move. If this has
> occurred 3 straight times, I am inclined to believe that something is
> causing more tension than need be? Or could it just be a faulty
> bolt.......3 times in a row? Has anyone else run into a string of back
> luck such as this with a starter? The dealership mechanic is very
> talented and solved my carb problem several years back, but they can't
> seem to make any sense of this either. Once started it runs like a
> top!
>
> I am not very mechanically inclined, I can do the easy stuff and I like
> to tinker, but can't trouble shoot tough things very well, so please
> reply in easy terminology or at least define things.
>
> Please, someone give me hope! (inexpensive hope)
>
> A few other questions:
>
> My tank skid plate is nearly rusted through. Is replacing the gas tank
> skid plate an easy affair, or will I have to drop the gas tank as well?
> Will the replacement plates come with new bolts, or is this something
> I should purchase before I start, or will the old ones do?
>
> My heating and venting system doesn't operate very fluidly, I have to
> poke open the vents with a stick in the summer and manually move the
> heater in the winter. Are there repair kits made for this mouse trap
> system (pulleys and levers) of heating and cooling on old wranglers?
> Is it reasonably accessible, or would the dash need to be removed?
> Also, it seems like I am always getting heat on the drivers side feet
> no matter if the heat is on or not. Is that exhaust heat? Am I
> missing something crucial?
>
> Thanks!
>

mark

Just for kicks...
Check the teeth on the flywheel. Are they cog-shaped, or are they
shark-tooth shaped. They need to be rather square looking or will continue
to eat starters.

--
mark



<markbmeyer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148332302.821899.83680@38g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
> Specs: 1987 YJ 6cyc 4.2L BBL, 4" rancho lift
>
> I have read much about starter problems in this group and still need to
> seek some advice.
>
> I have replaced my starter every year for the past 4 years, now I have
> put in three straight starters within the past month. It seems like
> recently they are fine for approximately 10-12 starts and then they
> crap out on me. For the first few, I replaced them myself, but then
> have since gone to a dealership to have work done by a "professional"
> and to get a better warranty. There is no damage or signs of damage to
> the flywheel and it seems to make good contact. The last visit to the
> mechanic left with the resolution that a "bolt" had broken off that
> mounted the starter, thus causing it to physically move. If this has
> occurred 3 straight times, I am inclined to believe that something is
> causing more tension than need be? Or could it just be a faulty
> bolt.......3 times in a row? Has anyone else run into a string of back
> luck such as this with a starter? The dealership mechanic is very
> talented and solved my carb problem several years back, but they can't
> seem to make any sense of this either. Once started it runs like a
> top!
>
> I am not very mechanically inclined, I can do the easy stuff and I like
> to tinker, but can't trouble shoot tough things very well, so please
> reply in easy terminology or at least define things.
>
> Please, someone give me hope! (inexpensive hope)
>
> A few other questions:
>
> My tank skid plate is nearly rusted through. Is replacing the gas tank
> skid plate an easy affair, or will I have to drop the gas tank as well?
> Will the replacement plates come with new bolts, or is this something
> I should purchase before I start, or will the old ones do?
>
> My heating and venting system doesn't operate very fluidly, I have to
> poke open the vents with a stick in the summer and manually move the
> heater in the winter. Are there repair kits made for this mouse trap
> system (pulleys and levers) of heating and cooling on old wranglers?
> Is it reasonably accessible, or would the dash need to be removed?
> Also, it seems like I am always getting heat on the drivers side feet
> no matter if the heat is on or not. Is that exhaust heat? Am I
> missing something crucial?
>
> Thanks!
>

markbmeyer@gmail.com

Thanks for all the info on these repairs. I am going to attempt to
tackle the heating problem at some point this summer. I am missing
several parts from comparisons to the repair manuals that may have
rusted off or disappeared over the years. I will attempt to track all
these down. Is it necessary to remove the entire heater assembly
before repairing these cables?

I have one other question, for all you gear heads and tinkerers. What
is best way to get a bolt out that is stripped and won't budge? I had
to replace my seat belts as my 20 year old ones were wearing pretty
thin. The bolt that holds the seat belt retraction mechanism (at the
bottom) stripped like a hot knife through butter...stupid torx bolts.
anyways, I have to remove this bolt and I don't know how. Mechanics
that I have talked to don't even want to touch this one either. It is
a harden bolt where the back is not accessible. I have heard that
heating the bolt can be one way to remove it? How does one do this and
does that work? I have not had luck drilling bolts out in the past,
even very small ones, I don't want to try to drill this sucker out.

Thanks,

M

markbmeyer@gmail.com

Thanks for all the info on these repairs. I am going to attempt to
tackle the heating problem at some point this summer. I am missing
several parts from comparisons to the repair manuals that may have
rusted off or disappeared over the years. I will attempt to track all
these down. Is it necessary to remove the entire heater assembly
before repairing these cables?

I have one other question, for all you gear heads and tinkerers. What
is best way to get a bolt out that is stripped and won't budge? I had
to replace my seat belts as my 20 year old ones were wearing pretty
thin. The bolt that holds the seat belt retraction mechanism (at the
bottom) stripped like a hot knife through butter...stupid torx bolts.
anyways, I have to remove this bolt and I don't know how. Mechanics
that I have talked to don't even want to touch this one either. It is
a harden bolt where the back is not accessible. I have heard that
heating the bolt can be one way to remove it? How does one do this and
does that work? I have not had luck drilling bolts out in the past,
even very small ones, I don't want to try to drill this sucker out.

Thanks,

M

markbmeyer@gmail.com

Thanks for all the info on these repairs. I am going to attempt to
tackle the heating problem at some point this summer. I am missing
several parts from comparisons to the repair manuals that may have
rusted off or disappeared over the years. I will attempt to track all
these down. Is it necessary to remove the entire heater assembly
before repairing these cables?

I have one other question, for all you gear heads and tinkerers. What
is best way to get a bolt out that is stripped and won't budge? I had
to replace my seat belts as my 20 year old ones were wearing pretty
thin. The bolt that holds the seat belt retraction mechanism (at the
bottom) stripped like a hot knife through butter...stupid torx bolts.
anyways, I have to remove this bolt and I don't know how. Mechanics
that I have talked to don't even want to touch this one either. It is
a harden bolt where the back is not accessible. I have heard that
heating the bolt can be one way to remove it? How does one do this and
does that work? I have not had luck drilling bolts out in the past,
even very small ones, I don't want to try to drill this sucker out.

Thanks,

M

billy ray

Do we understand that the Torx 'teeth" have been stripped out?


<markbmeyer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148659410.564446.241110@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com...
> Thanks for all the info on these repairs. I am going to attempt to
> tackle the heating problem at some point this summer. I am missing
> several parts from comparisons to the repair manuals that may have
> rusted off or disappeared over the years. I will attempt to track all
> these down. Is it necessary to remove the entire heater assembly
> before repairing these cables?
>
> I have one other question, for all you gear heads and tinkerers. What
> is best way to get a bolt out that is stripped and won't budge? I had
> to replace my seat belts as my 20 year old ones were wearing pretty
> thin. The bolt that holds the seat belt retraction mechanism (at the
> bottom) stripped like a hot knife through butter...stupid torx bolts.
> anyways, I have to remove this bolt and I don't know how. Mechanics
> that I have talked to don't even want to touch this one either. It is
> a harden bolt where the back is not accessible. I have heard that
> heating the bolt can be one way to remove it? How does one do this and
> does that work? I have not had luck drilling bolts out in the past,
> even very small ones, I don't want to try to drill this sucker out.
>
> Thanks,
>
> M
>