Earle Horton

Mike,

If the caster is off with a shackle lift the vehicle will get "squirly".
That is what we called it in southeast USA.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:459AE612.2768ED85@sympatico.ca...
> You are just going to have to try the shackles and see. Pay attention
> to any harmonic feeling vibes that come and go at certain speeds. That
> would be u-joints.
>
> For the steering I think the return to center will be off of the angles
> get too extreme. That would mean you have to pull the steering wheel
> back to center the wheels, they won't just do it by themselves. I
> 'think' that is the right way off.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> The Merg wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> > I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> > the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically get
> > away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> > junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> > expensive shocks.
> >
> > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
> >
> > Carl wrote:
> > > That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > "The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> > > > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to do
it
> > > > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
> > > > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
> > > > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
> > > > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
> > > > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
> > > > thinking).
> > > > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
> > > > http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
> > > >
> > > > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4 elliptical
> > > > spring set up.
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > > >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs
from
> > > >> Rubicon.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
drop
> > > >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to buy,
and
> > > >> $400
> > > >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
Keep
> > > >> in
> > > >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
> > > >>
> > > >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with
everything,
> > > >> and
> > > >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
flex,
> > > >> ride, and clearance.
> > > >>
> > > >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a
6" drop
> > > >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
pitman
> > > >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a little
$$.
> > > >>
> > > >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need to
do if
> > > >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
what
> > > >> it
> > > >> needs after it's done.
> > > >>
> > > >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some
companies
> > > >> that
> > > >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You
get 5-6"
> > > >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1"
lift
> > > >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
1-1.5".
> > > >> So I
> > > >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance
for
> > > >> dirt
> > > >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
find
> > > >> the
> > > >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
> > > >>
> > > >> Carl
> > > >>
> > > >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > > >>
messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
> > > >>
> > > >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon?
Or did
> > > >> > you just have them laying around?
> > > >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
> > > >> > driveshaft, etc.?
> > > >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate
the
> > > >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the
YJ. If
> > > >> >> it's
> > > >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
angles
> > > >> >> and
> > > >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to
the
> > > >> >> t-case
> > > >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle only
2
> > > >> >> degrees
> > > >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
> > > >>
> > > >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock
springs did
> > > >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
(reverse
> > > >> >> eye)
> > > >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or
stock
> > > >> >> height.
> > > >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than
a
> > > >> >> spring-under lift.
> > > >>
> > > >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
mains,
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an
extra
> > > >> >> mid-leaf
> > > >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me
7 leaf
> > > >> >> rears
> > > >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40,
and
> > > >> >> axlewrap
> > > >> >> was eliminated.
> > > >>
> > > >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
> > > >> >> passenger
> > > >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
spring
> > > >> >> shaved
> > > >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing
the
> > > >> >> needed
> > > >> >> clearance.
> > > >>
> > > >> >> HTH
> > > >>
> > > >> >> Carl
> > > >

Earle Horton

Mike,

If the caster is off with a shackle lift the vehicle will get "squirly".
That is what we called it in southeast USA.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:459AE612.2768ED85@sympatico.ca...
> You are just going to have to try the shackles and see. Pay attention
> to any harmonic feeling vibes that come and go at certain speeds. That
> would be u-joints.
>
> For the steering I think the return to center will be off of the angles
> get too extreme. That would mean you have to pull the steering wheel
> back to center the wheels, they won't just do it by themselves. I
> 'think' that is the right way off.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> The Merg wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> > I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> > the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically get
> > away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> > junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> > expensive shocks.
> >
> > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
> >
> > Carl wrote:
> > > That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > "The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> > > > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to do
it
> > > > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
> > > > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
> > > > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
> > > > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
> > > > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
> > > > thinking).
> > > > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
> > > > http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
> > > >
> > > > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4 elliptical
> > > > spring set up.
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > > >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs
from
> > > >> Rubicon.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
drop
> > > >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to buy,
and
> > > >> $400
> > > >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
Keep
> > > >> in
> > > >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
> > > >>
> > > >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with
everything,
> > > >> and
> > > >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
flex,
> > > >> ride, and clearance.
> > > >>
> > > >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a
6" drop
> > > >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
pitman
> > > >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a little
$$.
> > > >>
> > > >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need to
do if
> > > >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
what
> > > >> it
> > > >> needs after it's done.
> > > >>
> > > >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some
companies
> > > >> that
> > > >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You
get 5-6"
> > > >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1"
lift
> > > >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
1-1.5".
> > > >> So I
> > > >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance
for
> > > >> dirt
> > > >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
find
> > > >> the
> > > >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
> > > >>
> > > >> Carl
> > > >>
> > > >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > > >>
messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
> > > >>
> > > >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon?
Or did
> > > >> > you just have them laying around?
> > > >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
> > > >> > driveshaft, etc.?
> > > >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate
the
> > > >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the
YJ. If
> > > >> >> it's
> > > >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
angles
> > > >> >> and
> > > >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to
the
> > > >> >> t-case
> > > >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle only
2
> > > >> >> degrees
> > > >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
> > > >>
> > > >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock
springs did
> > > >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
(reverse
> > > >> >> eye)
> > > >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or
stock
> > > >> >> height.
> > > >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than
a
> > > >> >> spring-under lift.
> > > >>
> > > >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
mains,
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an
extra
> > > >> >> mid-leaf
> > > >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me
7 leaf
> > > >> >> rears
> > > >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40,
and
> > > >> >> axlewrap
> > > >> >> was eliminated.
> > > >>
> > > >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
> > > >> >> passenger
> > > >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
spring
> > > >> >> shaved
> > > >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing
the
> > > >> >> needed
> > > >> >> clearance.
> > > >>
> > > >> >> HTH
> > > >>
> > > >> >> Carl
> > > >

Carl

The $1000 is not including the new spring packs from Rubicon. Please keep in
mind that a spring-over is more labor intensive and requires a lot more
planning than a spring-under lift, but, IMO, it is WELL WORTH the effort.

Carl


"The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167777412.531406.73910@i12g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Carl,
> I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically get
> away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> expensive shocks.
>
> Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
>
>
> Carl wrote:
>> That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> "The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>> > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to do it
>> > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
>> > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
>> > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
>> > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
>> > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
>> > thinking).
>> > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
>> > http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
>> >
>> > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4 elliptical
>> > spring set up.
>> >
>> > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs from
>> >> Rubicon.
>> >>
>> >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
>> >> drop
>> >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to buy,
>> >> and
>> >> $400
>> >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
>> >> Keep
>> >> in
>> >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
>> >>
>> >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with everything,
>> >> and
>> >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
>> >> flex,
>> >> ride, and clearance.
>> >>
>> >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a 6"
>> >> drop
>> >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
>> >> pitman
>> >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a little
>> >> $$.
>> >>
>> >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need to do
>> >> if
>> >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
>> >> what
>> >> it
>> >> needs after it's done.
>> >>
>> >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some companies
>> >> that
>> >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You get
>> >> 5-6"
>> >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1" lift
>> >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
>> >> 1-1.5".
>> >> So I
>> >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance for
>> >> dirt
>> >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
>> >> find
>> >> the
>> >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
>> >>
>> >> Carl
>> >>
>> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon? Or
>> >> > did
>> >> > you just have them laying around?
>> >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
>> >> > driveshaft, etc.?
>> >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate the
>> >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
>> >>
>> >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the YJ.
>> >> >> If
>> >> >> it's
>> >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
>> >> >> angles
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to the
>> >> >> t-case
>> >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle only 2
>> >> >> degrees
>> >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
>> >>
>> >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock springs
>> >> >> did
>> >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
>> >> >> (reverse
>> >> >> eye)
>> >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or stock
>> >> >> height.
>> >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than a
>> >> >> spring-under lift.
>> >>
>> >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
>> >> >> mains,
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an extra
>> >> >> mid-leaf
>> >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me 7
>> >> >> leaf
>> >> >> rears
>> >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40, and
>> >> >> axlewrap
>> >> >> was eliminated.
>> >>
>> >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
>> >> >> passenger
>> >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
>> >> >> spring
>> >> >> shaved
>> >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing the
>> >> >> needed
>> >> >> clearance.
>> >>
>> >> >> HTH
>> >>
>> >> >> Carl
>> >
>

Carl

The $1000 is not including the new spring packs from Rubicon. Please keep in
mind that a spring-over is more labor intensive and requires a lot more
planning than a spring-under lift, but, IMO, it is WELL WORTH the effort.

Carl


"The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167777412.531406.73910@i12g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Carl,
> I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically get
> away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> expensive shocks.
>
> Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
>
>
> Carl wrote:
>> That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> "The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>> > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to do it
>> > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
>> > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
>> > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
>> > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
>> > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
>> > thinking).
>> > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
>> > http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
>> >
>> > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4 elliptical
>> > spring set up.
>> >
>> > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs from
>> >> Rubicon.
>> >>
>> >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
>> >> drop
>> >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to buy,
>> >> and
>> >> $400
>> >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
>> >> Keep
>> >> in
>> >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
>> >>
>> >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with everything,
>> >> and
>> >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
>> >> flex,
>> >> ride, and clearance.
>> >>
>> >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a 6"
>> >> drop
>> >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
>> >> pitman
>> >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a little
>> >> $$.
>> >>
>> >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need to do
>> >> if
>> >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
>> >> what
>> >> it
>> >> needs after it's done.
>> >>
>> >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some companies
>> >> that
>> >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You get
>> >> 5-6"
>> >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1" lift
>> >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
>> >> 1-1.5".
>> >> So I
>> >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance for
>> >> dirt
>> >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
>> >> find
>> >> the
>> >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
>> >>
>> >> Carl
>> >>
>> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon? Or
>> >> > did
>> >> > you just have them laying around?
>> >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
>> >> > driveshaft, etc.?
>> >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate the
>> >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
>> >>
>> >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the YJ.
>> >> >> If
>> >> >> it's
>> >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
>> >> >> angles
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to the
>> >> >> t-case
>> >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle only 2
>> >> >> degrees
>> >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
>> >>
>> >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock springs
>> >> >> did
>> >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
>> >> >> (reverse
>> >> >> eye)
>> >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or stock
>> >> >> height.
>> >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than a
>> >> >> spring-under lift.
>> >>
>> >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
>> >> >> mains,
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an extra
>> >> >> mid-leaf
>> >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me 7
>> >> >> leaf
>> >> >> rears
>> >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40, and
>> >> >> axlewrap
>> >> >> was eliminated.
>> >>
>> >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
>> >> >> passenger
>> >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
>> >> >> spring
>> >> >> shaved
>> >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing the
>> >> >> needed
>> >> >> clearance.
>> >>
>> >> >> HTH
>> >>
>> >> >> Carl
>> >
>

Carl

The $1000 is not including the new spring packs from Rubicon. Please keep in
mind that a spring-over is more labor intensive and requires a lot more
planning than a spring-under lift, but, IMO, it is WELL WORTH the effort.

Carl


"The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167777412.531406.73910@i12g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Carl,
> I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically get
> away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> expensive shocks.
>
> Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
>
>
> Carl wrote:
>> That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> "The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>> > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to do it
>> > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
>> > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
>> > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
>> > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
>> > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
>> > thinking).
>> > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
>> > http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
>> >
>> > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4 elliptical
>> > spring set up.
>> >
>> > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs from
>> >> Rubicon.
>> >>
>> >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
>> >> drop
>> >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to buy,
>> >> and
>> >> $400
>> >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
>> >> Keep
>> >> in
>> >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
>> >>
>> >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with everything,
>> >> and
>> >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
>> >> flex,
>> >> ride, and clearance.
>> >>
>> >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a 6"
>> >> drop
>> >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
>> >> pitman
>> >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a little
>> >> $$.
>> >>
>> >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need to do
>> >> if
>> >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
>> >> what
>> >> it
>> >> needs after it's done.
>> >>
>> >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some companies
>> >> that
>> >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You get
>> >> 5-6"
>> >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1" lift
>> >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
>> >> 1-1.5".
>> >> So I
>> >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance for
>> >> dirt
>> >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
>> >> find
>> >> the
>> >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
>> >>
>> >> Carl
>> >>
>> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
>> >>
>> >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon? Or
>> >> > did
>> >> > you just have them laying around?
>> >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
>> >> > driveshaft, etc.?
>> >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate the
>> >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
>> >>
>> >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the YJ.
>> >> >> If
>> >> >> it's
>> >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
>> >> >> angles
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to the
>> >> >> t-case
>> >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle only 2
>> >> >> degrees
>> >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
>> >>
>> >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock springs
>> >> >> did
>> >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
>> >> >> (reverse
>> >> >> eye)
>> >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or stock
>> >> >> height.
>> >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than a
>> >> >> spring-under lift.
>> >>
>> >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
>> >> >> mains,
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an extra
>> >> >> mid-leaf
>> >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me 7
>> >> >> leaf
>> >> >> rears
>> >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40, and
>> >> >> axlewrap
>> >> >> was eliminated.
>> >>
>> >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
>> >> >> passenger
>> >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
>> >> >> spring
>> >> >> shaved
>> >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing the
>> >> >> needed
>> >> >> clearance.
>> >>
>> >> >> HTH
>> >>
>> >> >> Carl
>> >
>

The Merg

Thanks, Carl.
Believe me, I'm not going to approach this with a 'shoot first'
mentality - especially since I won't be able to do it for a while. Now
that I have two Jeeps to build up I have to pick and choose my upgrades
very carefully. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can and
figure out about how much time and money this will take me.
Anyway, it's just wishing for now until the money fairy visits my bank
account.

On Jan 3, 12:44 am, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> The $1000 is not including the new spring packs from Rubicon. Please keep in
> mind that a spring-over is more labor intensive and requires a lot more
> planning than a spring-under lift, but, IMO, it is WELL WORTH the effort.
>
> Carl
>
> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1167777412.531406.73910@i12g2000cwa.go oglegroups.com...
>
> > Carl,
> > I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> > the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically get
> > away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> > junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> > expensive shocks.
>
> > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
>
> > Carl wrote:
> >> That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
>
> >> Carl
>
> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.google groups.com...
> >> > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to do it
> >> > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
> >> > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
> >> > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
> >> > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
> >> > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
> >> > thinking).
> >> > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
> >> >http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
>
> >> > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4 elliptical
> >> > spring set up.
>
> >> > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >> >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs from
> >> >> Rubicon.
>
> >> >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
> >> >> drop
> >> >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to buy,
> >> >> and
> >> >> $400
> >> >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
> >> >> Keep
> >> >> in
> >> >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
>
> >> >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with everything,
> >> >> and
> >> >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
> >> >> flex,
> >> >> ride, and clearance.
>
> >> >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a 6"
> >> >> drop
> >> >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
> >> >> pitman
> >> >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a little
> >> >> $$.
>
> >> >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need to do
> >> >> if
> >> >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
> >> >> what
> >> >> it
> >> >> needs after it's done.
>
> >> >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some companies
> >> >> that
> >> >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You get
> >> >> 5-6"
> >> >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1" lift
> >> >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
> >> >> 1-1.5".
> >> >> So I
> >> >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance for
> >> >> dirt
> >> >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
> >> >> find
> >> >> the
> >> >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
>
> >> >> Carl
>
> >> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
>
> >> >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon? Or
> >> >> > did
> >> >> > you just have them laying around?
> >> >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
> >> >> > driveshaft, etc.?
> >> >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate the
> >> >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
>
> >> >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the YJ.
> >> >> >> If
> >> >> >> it's
> >> >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
> >> >> >> angles
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to the
> >> >> >> t-case
> >> >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle only 2
> >> >> >> degrees
> >> >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
>
> >> >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock springs
> >> >> >> did
> >> >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
> >> >> >> (reverse
> >> >> >> eye)
> >> >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or stock
> >> >> >> height.
> >> >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than a
> >> >> >> spring-under lift.
>
> >> >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
> >> >> >> mains,
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an extra
> >> >> >> mid-leaf
> >> >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me 7
> >> >> >> leaf
> >> >> >> rears
> >> >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40, and
> >> >> >> axlewrap
> >> >> >> was eliminated.
>
> >> >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
> >> >> >> passenger
> >> >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
> >> >> >> spring
> >> >> >> shaved
> >> >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing the
> >> >> >> needed
> >> >> >> clearance.
>
> >> >> >> HTH
>
> >> >> >> Carl

The Merg

Thanks, Carl.
Believe me, I'm not going to approach this with a 'shoot first'
mentality - especially since I won't be able to do it for a while. Now
that I have two Jeeps to build up I have to pick and choose my upgrades
very carefully. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can and
figure out about how much time and money this will take me.
Anyway, it's just wishing for now until the money fairy visits my bank
account.

On Jan 3, 12:44 am, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> The $1000 is not including the new spring packs from Rubicon. Please keep in
> mind that a spring-over is more labor intensive and requires a lot more
> planning than a spring-under lift, but, IMO, it is WELL WORTH the effort.
>
> Carl
>
> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1167777412.531406.73910@i12g2000cwa.go oglegroups.com...
>
> > Carl,
> > I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> > the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically get
> > away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> > junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> > expensive shocks.
>
> > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
>
> > Carl wrote:
> >> That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
>
> >> Carl
>
> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.google groups.com...
> >> > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to do it
> >> > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
> >> > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
> >> > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
> >> > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
> >> > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
> >> > thinking).
> >> > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
> >> >http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
>
> >> > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4 elliptical
> >> > spring set up.
>
> >> > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >> >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs from
> >> >> Rubicon.
>
> >> >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
> >> >> drop
> >> >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to buy,
> >> >> and
> >> >> $400
> >> >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
> >> >> Keep
> >> >> in
> >> >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
>
> >> >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with everything,
> >> >> and
> >> >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
> >> >> flex,
> >> >> ride, and clearance.
>
> >> >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a 6"
> >> >> drop
> >> >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
> >> >> pitman
> >> >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a little
> >> >> $$.
>
> >> >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need to do
> >> >> if
> >> >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
> >> >> what
> >> >> it
> >> >> needs after it's done.
>
> >> >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some companies
> >> >> that
> >> >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You get
> >> >> 5-6"
> >> >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1" lift
> >> >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
> >> >> 1-1.5".
> >> >> So I
> >> >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance for
> >> >> dirt
> >> >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
> >> >> find
> >> >> the
> >> >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
>
> >> >> Carl
>
> >> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
>
> >> >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon? Or
> >> >> > did
> >> >> > you just have them laying around?
> >> >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
> >> >> > driveshaft, etc.?
> >> >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate the
> >> >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
>
> >> >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the YJ.
> >> >> >> If
> >> >> >> it's
> >> >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
> >> >> >> angles
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to the
> >> >> >> t-case
> >> >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle only 2
> >> >> >> degrees
> >> >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
>
> >> >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock springs
> >> >> >> did
> >> >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
> >> >> >> (reverse
> >> >> >> eye)
> >> >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or stock
> >> >> >> height.
> >> >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than a
> >> >> >> spring-under lift.
>
> >> >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
> >> >> >> mains,
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an extra
> >> >> >> mid-leaf
> >> >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me 7
> >> >> >> leaf
> >> >> >> rears
> >> >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40, and
> >> >> >> axlewrap
> >> >> >> was eliminated.
>
> >> >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
> >> >> >> passenger
> >> >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
> >> >> >> spring
> >> >> >> shaved
> >> >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing the
> >> >> >> needed
> >> >> >> clearance.
>
> >> >> >> HTH
>
> >> >> >> Carl

The Merg

Thanks, Carl.
Believe me, I'm not going to approach this with a 'shoot first'
mentality - especially since I won't be able to do it for a while. Now
that I have two Jeeps to build up I have to pick and choose my upgrades
very carefully. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can and
figure out about how much time and money this will take me.
Anyway, it's just wishing for now until the money fairy visits my bank
account.

On Jan 3, 12:44 am, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> The $1000 is not including the new spring packs from Rubicon. Please keep in
> mind that a spring-over is more labor intensive and requires a lot more
> planning than a spring-under lift, but, IMO, it is WELL WORTH the effort.
>
> Carl
>
> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1167777412.531406.73910@i12g2000cwa.go oglegroups.com...
>
> > Carl,
> > I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> > the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically get
> > away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> > junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> > expensive shocks.
>
> > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
>
> > Carl wrote:
> >> That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
>
> >> Carl
>
> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.google groups.com...
> >> > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to do it
> >> > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
> >> > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
> >> > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
> >> > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
> >> > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
> >> > thinking).
> >> > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
> >> >http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
>
> >> > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4 elliptical
> >> > spring set up.
>
> >> > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >> >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs from
> >> >> Rubicon.
>
> >> >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
> >> >> drop
> >> >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to buy,
> >> >> and
> >> >> $400
> >> >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
> >> >> Keep
> >> >> in
> >> >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
>
> >> >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with everything,
> >> >> and
> >> >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
> >> >> flex,
> >> >> ride, and clearance.
>
> >> >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a 6"
> >> >> drop
> >> >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
> >> >> pitman
> >> >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a little
> >> >> $$.
>
> >> >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need to do
> >> >> if
> >> >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
> >> >> what
> >> >> it
> >> >> needs after it's done.
>
> >> >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some companies
> >> >> that
> >> >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You get
> >> >> 5-6"
> >> >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1" lift
> >> >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
> >> >> 1-1.5".
> >> >> So I
> >> >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance for
> >> >> dirt
> >> >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
> >> >> find
> >> >> the
> >> >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
>
> >> >> Carl
>
> >> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
>
> >> >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon? Or
> >> >> > did
> >> >> > you just have them laying around?
> >> >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
> >> >> > driveshaft, etc.?
> >> >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate the
> >> >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
>
> >> >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the YJ.
> >> >> >> If
> >> >> >> it's
> >> >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
> >> >> >> angles
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to the
> >> >> >> t-case
> >> >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle only 2
> >> >> >> degrees
> >> >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
>
> >> >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock springs
> >> >> >> did
> >> >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
> >> >> >> (reverse
> >> >> >> eye)
> >> >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or stock
> >> >> >> height.
> >> >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than a
> >> >> >> spring-under lift.
>
> >> >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
> >> >> >> mains,
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an extra
> >> >> >> mid-leaf
> >> >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me 7
> >> >> >> leaf
> >> >> >> rears
> >> >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40, and
> >> >> >> axlewrap
> >> >> >> was eliminated.
>
> >> >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
> >> >> >> passenger
> >> >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
> >> >> >> spring
> >> >> >> shaved
> >> >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing the
> >> >> >> needed
> >> >> >> clearance.
>
> >> >> >> HTH
>
> >> >> >> Carl

Earle Horton

In that case, how much off roading have you done so far? I find that the
stock vehicle is very capable. My neighbor in Silverton rents out stock
Wranglers every year with success and few damage claims, although lately he
has been getting Rubicons and Limiteds. I guess that's just what the dealer
he gets them from has available. We have some truly gnarly trails here, and
some of the tourists have no trail sense at all, but they manage to survive.
As you appear to be finding out, putting on big tires is a little more
complicated than it appears at first glance, eh?

Earle

"The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167845182.615593.52490@42g2000cwt.googlegrou ps.com...
> Thanks, Carl.
> Believe me, I'm not going to approach this with a 'shoot first'
> mentality - especially since I won't be able to do it for a while. Now
> that I have two Jeeps to build up I have to pick and choose my upgrades
> very carefully. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can and
> figure out about how much time and money this will take me.
> Anyway, it's just wishing for now until the money fairy visits my bank
> account.
>
> On Jan 3, 12:44 am, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > The $1000 is not including the new spring packs from Rubicon. Please
keep in
> > mind that a spring-over is more labor intensive and requires a lot more
> > planning than a spring-under lift, but, IMO, it is WELL WORTH the
effort.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:1167777412.531406.73910@i12g2000cwa.go oglegroups.com...
> >
> > > Carl,
> > > I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> > > the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically
get
> > > away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> > > junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> > > expensive shocks.
> >
> > > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> > > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
> >
> > > Carl wrote:
> > >> That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
> >
> > >> Carl
> >
> > >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.google groups.com...
> > >> > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to
do it
> > >> > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
> > >> > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
> > >> > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
> > >> > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
> > >> > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
> > >> > thinking).
> > >> > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
> > >> >http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
> >
> > >> > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4
elliptical
> > >> > spring set up.
> >
> > >> > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > >> >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs
from
> > >> >> Rubicon.
> >
> > >> >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
> > >> >> drop
> > >> >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to
buy,
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> $400
> > >> >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
> > >> >> Keep
> > >> >> in
> > >> >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
> >
> > >> >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with
everything,
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
> > >> >> flex,
> > >> >> ride, and clearance.
> >
> > >> >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a
6"
> > >> >> drop
> > >> >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
> > >> >> pitman
> > >> >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a
little
> > >> >> $$.
> >
> > >> >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need
to do
> > >> >> if
> > >> >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
> > >> >> what
> > >> >> it
> > >> >> needs after it's done.
> >
> > >> >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some
companies
> > >> >> that
> > >> >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You
get
> > >> >> 5-6"
> > >> >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1"
lift
> > >> >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
> > >> >> 1-1.5".
> > >> >> So I
> > >> >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance
for
> > >> >> dirt
> > >> >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
> > >> >> find
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
> >
> > >> >> Carl
> >
> > >> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > >> >>
messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
> >
> > >> >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon?
Or
> > >> >> > did
> > >> >> > you just have them laying around?
> > >> >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
> > >> >> > driveshaft, etc.?
> > >> >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate
the
> > >> >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
> >
> > >> >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the
YJ.
> > >> >> >> If
> > >> >> >> it's
> > >> >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
> > >> >> >> angles
> > >> >> >> and
> > >> >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to
the
> > >> >> >> t-case
> > >> >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle
only 2
> > >> >> >> degrees
> > >> >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
> >
> > >> >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock
springs
> > >> >> >> did
> > >> >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
> > >> >> >> (reverse
> > >> >> >> eye)
> > >> >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or
stock
> > >> >> >> height.
> > >> >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than
a
> > >> >> >> spring-under lift.
> >
> > >> >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
> > >> >> >> mains,
> > >> >> >> the
> > >> >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an
extra
> > >> >> >> mid-leaf
> > >> >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me
7
> > >> >> >> leaf
> > >> >> >> rears
> > >> >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40,
and
> > >> >> >> axlewrap
> > >> >> >> was eliminated.
> >
> > >> >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
> > >> >> >> passenger
> > >> >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
> > >> >> >> spring
> > >> >> >> shaved
> > >> >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing
the
> > >> >> >> needed
> > >> >> >> clearance.
> >
> > >> >> >> HTH
> >
> > >> >> >> Carl
>

Earle Horton

In that case, how much off roading have you done so far? I find that the
stock vehicle is very capable. My neighbor in Silverton rents out stock
Wranglers every year with success and few damage claims, although lately he
has been getting Rubicons and Limiteds. I guess that's just what the dealer
he gets them from has available. We have some truly gnarly trails here, and
some of the tourists have no trail sense at all, but they manage to survive.
As you appear to be finding out, putting on big tires is a little more
complicated than it appears at first glance, eh?

Earle

"The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167845182.615593.52490@42g2000cwt.googlegrou ps.com...
> Thanks, Carl.
> Believe me, I'm not going to approach this with a 'shoot first'
> mentality - especially since I won't be able to do it for a while. Now
> that I have two Jeeps to build up I have to pick and choose my upgrades
> very carefully. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can and
> figure out about how much time and money this will take me.
> Anyway, it's just wishing for now until the money fairy visits my bank
> account.
>
> On Jan 3, 12:44 am, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > The $1000 is not including the new spring packs from Rubicon. Please
keep in
> > mind that a spring-over is more labor intensive and requires a lot more
> > planning than a spring-under lift, but, IMO, it is WELL WORTH the
effort.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:1167777412.531406.73910@i12g2000cwa.go oglegroups.com...
> >
> > > Carl,
> > > I'm looking over your numbers again, and the $1000 price tag includes
> > > the new springs you bought? So I'm thinking I could hypothetically
get
> > > away with $600-700 or so if I go get some used spring packs from a
> > > junkyard. Before beer of course. Maybe more if I go with more
> > > expensive shocks.
> >
> > > Oh yeah, and I measured my lift shackles and they appear to be 2 5/8"
> > > longer than stock. Am I most likely going to need shims?
> >
> > > Carl wrote:
> > >> That's a good article, I read it before doing mine.
> >
> > >> Carl
> >
> > >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:1167713743.729158.220470@h40g2000cwb.google groups.com...
> > >> > dammit Carl, you never should have mentioned this. Now I want to
do it
> > >> > right away! Sadly, I'll have to wait until I can afford it. I'm
> > >> > really glad I picked up the XJ, though, because now I can afford to
> > >> > take the YJ off the road for the time needed for the SOA conversion
> > >> > (after the XJ becomes road worthy, of course). $1000 sounds pretty
> > >> > good, even when I factor in the beer (another $500 or so, I'm
> > >> > thinking).
> > >> > I found a good article over on Jeep Tech on SOA and axle upgrades:
> > >> >http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/fordeb/
> >
> > >> > The other idea that really really intrigues me is the 3/4
elliptical
> > >> > spring set up.
> >
> > >> > On Jan 1, 7:26 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > >> >> Yes, $400 if you want brand new reverse eye spring-over springs
from
> > >> >> Rubicon.
> >
> > >> >> Lets see here...$40 for spring perches, $130 for shocks, $60 for a
> > >> >> drop
> > >> >> pitman, $40ish for U-bolts, $40 for used springs I was able to
buy,
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> $400
> > >> >> for the SYE. Around $1000 total for everything, not counting Beer.
> > >> >> Keep
> > >> >> in
> > >> >> mind that the SYE is needed for SOA and SUA.
> >
> > >> >> You're look at AT LEAST $1800 for a spring-under lift with
everything,
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> you still dont have the advantages of spring-over such as awesome
> > >> >> flex,
> > >> >> ride, and clearance.
> >
> > >> >> The drop pitman arm moves the drag link down 4" if you can find a
6"
> > >> >> drop
> > >> >> pitman arm, that will work. I've also heard you can use a stock ZJ
> > >> >> pitman
> > >> >> arm from the junkyard (it will provide 4" of drop) to save a
little
> > >> >> $$.
> >
> > >> >> I had intended to eventually do hi-steer, which would would need
to do
> > >> >> if
> > >> >> you went to a D44 up front. Don't grind the drag link, wait to see
> > >> >> what
> > >> >> it
> > >> >> needs after it's done.
> >
> > >> >> The thing I hate about SUA is that 4" is it. There are some
companies
> > >> >> that
> > >> >> offer 6" but the springs are so effing long it's ridiculous. You
get
> > >> >> 5-6"
> > >> >> from JUST the spring over. I forgot to mention that I also had 1"
lift
> > >> >> shackles, and my custom wrangler springs gave me around another
> > >> >> 1-1.5".
> > >> >> So I
> > >> >> had at least 7" of lift with incredible flex, ride, and clearance
for
> > >> >> dirt
> > >> >> cheap. If you haven't seen the pictures, go back a few threads and
> > >> >> find
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> link. It is *really* tall. The pics are on page two or three.
> >
> > >> >> Carl
> >
> > >> >> "The Merg" <greg.merg...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > >> >>
messagenews:1167695746.062611.223030@k21g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com...
> >
> > >> >> > I'm assuming you mean $400 for four spring packs from Rubicon?
Or
> > >> >> > did
> > >> >> > you just have them laying around?
> > >> >> > What would you say was your final cost with spring packs, SYE,
> > >> >> > driveshaft, etc.?
> > >> >> > Do you think the draglink could be moved up or down to eliminate
the
> > >> >> > rubbing? Or should I just grind it down a little?
> >
> > >> >> > On Jan 1, 4:14 pm, "Carl" <carlsai...@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> Ha. I ran the spring over for about 6 months untill I sold the
YJ.
> > >> >> >> If
> > >> >> >> it's
> > >> >> >> done right, you'll love it. Don't buy a bolt-on kit. Check your
> > >> >> >> angles
> > >> >> >> and
> > >> >> >> measurements and weld. The rear pinion should point exactly to
the
> > >> >> >> t-case
> > >> >> >> output, minus 1 to 2 degrees. I upped my front pinion angle
only 2
> > >> >> >> degrees
> > >> >> >> to try to keep as close to stock castor as possible.
> >
> > >> >> >> I had the 2.5L and axlewrap was a nominal issue. My stock
springs
> > >> >> >> did
> > >> >> >> eventually need replacement. You can buy spring-over springs
> > >> >> >> (reverse
> > >> >> >> eye)
> > >> >> >> from Rubicon for around $100 each, and in either 1.5" lift or
stock
> > >> >> >> height.
> > >> >> >> This allows you to buy two at a time, and still be cheaper than
a
> > >> >> >> spring-under lift.
> >
> > >> >> >> I took 8 stock wrangler packs, and put the better mains in as
> > >> >> >> mains,
> > >> >> >> the
> > >> >> >> worse mains as added mains with the spring eyes cut off, an
extra
> > >> >> >> mid-leaf
> > >> >> >> in the rear, and an extra short leaf in each pack. This gave me
7
> > >> >> >> leaf
> > >> >> >> rears
> > >> >> >> and 6 leaf fronts. The ride was exceptional, the cost was $40,
and
> > >> >> >> axlewrap
> > >> >> >> was eliminated.
> >
> > >> >> >> The other problem you'll run into is the drag link grazing the
> > >> >> >> passenger
> > >> >> >> side front leaf pack. I just didn't do anything about it. The
> > >> >> >> spring
> > >> >> >> shaved
> > >> >> >> a tiny amount of material from my drag link, thus provididing
the
> > >> >> >> needed
> > >> >> >> clearance.
> >
> > >> >> >> HTH
> >
> > >> >> >> Carl
>