thanks mike - here's an update, first things first: i checked for spark
and sure enough, spark is present. cant speak for the strength but she
has fire.
so next i went and got a new choke pull off and ICM - not too
expensive, about $40 from NAPA - when i went to replace the pull off i
noticed that the vacuum hose to the pull off from the carb was
seriously cracked - i dont mean heat cracks - i mean two big splits,
one on either end of the hose where LOTS of air would have been coming
thru... AAHA! i thought! the culprit!
but no - no start. replaced the ICM - still no start.
then i double checked the part # for the pull off with the part # of
the carb and lo and behold - it is the incorrect pull off! my Carter
BBD is apparently a model 8383 and this pull off is only for models
8338 and 8339... i have since found the correct pull off and will be
replacing it tonight or tomorrow so we'll see...
an interesting note - when my friend and i were trying to get it to
start after replacing both parts, the motor was turning over but still
not catching - just like before. on a whim i reached over and manually
opened the choke plate - and vroom! she started! she ran great, idled
happily at about 700rpm and revved with a healthy roar. i noticed that
while she was running, the choke plate stayed at least partially open -
held open by the (apparently incorrect) choke pull off which appeared
to have vacuum since it was engaged. we turned it off and she restarted
again no problem. now after an hour or so - no start, choke plate
completely closed - my friend split so i have no one to crank it while
i hold the plate open (and no remote starter) so i dont know if i can
successfully reproduce the starting procedure...
i suppose this is a VERY long way of asking how exactly the choke pull
off is supposed to work and whether this could be the ultimate source
of the problem (the linkage WAS a bit sticky, cleaned and lubed it up -
thanks). sorry this comes out rather stream-of-consciousness, i think
better while talking or typing - thinking out loud so to speak... if i
had a slightly better idea of how the choke circuit is supposed to work
this might be clearer to me...

thanks for all your help,
bennett

 

The hard start was likely the broken vacuum line to the choke pull off.
Bill's guess was right. As soon as it sees vacuum it is supposed to
open the choke so the engine doesn't flood out. This is critical on hot
starts because of that stupid timer choke. If it has time to cool off,
then the choke is all the way shut and flood happens. Your old one is
very likely just fine. It was only a busted hose.

Once these engines flood, they are pigs to get going.

Once the engine is going, the choke opens so the pull off isn't in the
circuit anymore. Unless it is interfering with the choke opening all
the way because it is the wrong part....

You can stick a long screwdriver down the carb to hold the choke plate
open a bit for starts.

Mike

bobvonbob wrote:
>
> thanks mike - here's an update, first things first: i checked for spark
> and sure enough, spark is present. cant speak for the strength but she
> has fire.
> so next i went and got a new choke pull off and ICM - not too
> expensive, about $40 from NAPA - when i went to replace the pull off i
> noticed that the vacuum hose to the pull off from the carb was
> seriously cracked - i dont mean heat cracks - i mean two big splits,
> one on either end of the hose where LOTS of air would have been coming
> thru... AAHA! i thought! the culprit!
> but no - no start. replaced the ICM - still no start.
> then i double checked the part # for the pull off with the part # of
> the carb and lo and behold - it is the incorrect pull off! my Carter
> BBD is apparently a model 8383 and this pull off is only for models
> 8338 and 8339... i have since found the correct pull off and will be
> replacing it tonight or tomorrow so we'll see...
> an interesting note - when my friend and i were trying to get it to
> start after replacing both parts, the motor was turning over but still
> not catching - just like before. on a whim i reached over and manually
> opened the choke plate - and vroom! she started! she ran great, idled
> happily at about 700rpm and revved with a healthy roar. i noticed that
> while she was running, the choke plate stayed at least partially open -
> held open by the (apparently incorrect) choke pull off which appeared
> to have vacuum since it was engaged. we turned it off and she restarted
> again no problem. now after an hour or so - no start, choke plate
> completely closed - my friend split so i have no one to crank it while
> i hold the plate open (and no remote starter) so i dont know if i can
> successfully reproduce the starting procedure...
> i suppose this is a VERY long way of asking how exactly the choke pull
> off is supposed to work and whether this could be the ultimate source
> of the problem (the linkage WAS a bit sticky, cleaned and lubed it up -
> thanks). sorry this comes out rather stream-of-consciousness, i think
> better while talking or typing - thinking out loud so to speak... if i
> had a slightly better idea of how the choke circuit is supposed to work
> this might be clearer to me...
>
> thanks for all your help,
> bennett

 

The hard start was likely the broken vacuum line to the choke pull off.
Bill's guess was right. As soon as it sees vacuum it is supposed to
open the choke so the engine doesn't flood out. This is critical on hot
starts because of that stupid timer choke. If it has time to cool off,
then the choke is all the way shut and flood happens. Your old one is
very likely just fine. It was only a busted hose.

Once these engines flood, they are pigs to get going.

Once the engine is going, the choke opens so the pull off isn't in the
circuit anymore. Unless it is interfering with the choke opening all
the way because it is the wrong part....

You can stick a long screwdriver down the carb to hold the choke plate
open a bit for starts.

Mike

bobvonbob wrote:
>
> thanks mike - here's an update, first things first: i checked for spark
> and sure enough, spark is present. cant speak for the strength but she
> has fire.
> so next i went and got a new choke pull off and ICM - not too
> expensive, about $40 from NAPA - when i went to replace the pull off i
> noticed that the vacuum hose to the pull off from the carb was
> seriously cracked - i dont mean heat cracks - i mean two big splits,
> one on either end of the hose where LOTS of air would have been coming
> thru... AAHA! i thought! the culprit!
> but no - no start. replaced the ICM - still no start.
> then i double checked the part # for the pull off with the part # of
> the carb and lo and behold - it is the incorrect pull off! my Carter
> BBD is apparently a model 8383 and this pull off is only for models
> 8338 and 8339... i have since found the correct pull off and will be
> replacing it tonight or tomorrow so we'll see...
> an interesting note - when my friend and i were trying to get it to
> start after replacing both parts, the motor was turning over but still
> not catching - just like before. on a whim i reached over and manually
> opened the choke plate - and vroom! she started! she ran great, idled
> happily at about 700rpm and revved with a healthy roar. i noticed that
> while she was running, the choke plate stayed at least partially open -
> held open by the (apparently incorrect) choke pull off which appeared
> to have vacuum since it was engaged. we turned it off and she restarted
> again no problem. now after an hour or so - no start, choke plate
> completely closed - my friend split so i have no one to crank it while
> i hold the plate open (and no remote starter) so i dont know if i can
> successfully reproduce the starting procedure...
> i suppose this is a VERY long way of asking how exactly the choke pull
> off is supposed to work and whether this could be the ultimate source
> of the problem (the linkage WAS a bit sticky, cleaned and lubed it up -
> thanks). sorry this comes out rather stream-of-consciousness, i think
> better while talking or typing - thinking out loud so to speak... if i
> had a slightly better idea of how the choke circuit is supposed to work
> this might be clearer to me...
>
> thanks for all your help,
> bennett

 

The hard start was likely the broken vacuum line to the choke pull off.
Bill's guess was right. As soon as it sees vacuum it is supposed to
open the choke so the engine doesn't flood out. This is critical on hot
starts because of that stupid timer choke. If it has time to cool off,
then the choke is all the way shut and flood happens. Your old one is
very likely just fine. It was only a busted hose.

Once these engines flood, they are pigs to get going.

Once the engine is going, the choke opens so the pull off isn't in the
circuit anymore. Unless it is interfering with the choke opening all
the way because it is the wrong part....

You can stick a long screwdriver down the carb to hold the choke plate
open a bit for starts.

Mike

bobvonbob wrote:
>
> thanks mike - here's an update, first things first: i checked for spark
> and sure enough, spark is present. cant speak for the strength but she
> has fire.
> so next i went and got a new choke pull off and ICM - not too
> expensive, about $40 from NAPA - when i went to replace the pull off i
> noticed that the vacuum hose to the pull off from the carb was
> seriously cracked - i dont mean heat cracks - i mean two big splits,
> one on either end of the hose where LOTS of air would have been coming
> thru... AAHA! i thought! the culprit!
> but no - no start. replaced the ICM - still no start.
> then i double checked the part # for the pull off with the part # of
> the carb and lo and behold - it is the incorrect pull off! my Carter
> BBD is apparently a model 8383 and this pull off is only for models
> 8338 and 8339... i have since found the correct pull off and will be
> replacing it tonight or tomorrow so we'll see...
> an interesting note - when my friend and i were trying to get it to
> start after replacing both parts, the motor was turning over but still
> not catching - just like before. on a whim i reached over and manually
> opened the choke plate - and vroom! she started! she ran great, idled
> happily at about 700rpm and revved with a healthy roar. i noticed that
> while she was running, the choke plate stayed at least partially open -
> held open by the (apparently incorrect) choke pull off which appeared
> to have vacuum since it was engaged. we turned it off and she restarted
> again no problem. now after an hour or so - no start, choke plate
> completely closed - my friend split so i have no one to crank it while
> i hold the plate open (and no remote starter) so i dont know if i can
> successfully reproduce the starting procedure...
> i suppose this is a VERY long way of asking how exactly the choke pull
> off is supposed to work and whether this could be the ultimate source
> of the problem (the linkage WAS a bit sticky, cleaned and lubed it up -
> thanks). sorry this comes out rather stream-of-consciousness, i think
> better while talking or typing - thinking out loud so to speak... if i
> had a slightly better idea of how the choke circuit is supposed to work
> this might be clearer to me...
>
> thanks for all your help,
> bennett

 

ok. i replaced the pull off with the correct model - they seemed
completely identical to me but what do i know? - now when she is cold i
notice that the choke plate (butterfly) is partially open and she will
start up 90% of the time. HOWEVER - if she doesnt catch, i cannot get
her start as per earlier and upon inspection the choke plate is ALWAYS
CLOSED. if i then use something to physically hold the choke plate open
- no problem, she will start with a little rough idle for 1-3 seconds
probably due to the flooding...
so, having replaced the choke pull off, and the vacuum line to the pull
off, should i consider replacing the choke thermostat sensor or
whatever its called? it would make a nice paperweight i suppose, and i
could put a manual choke in... would i have to drill a hole in my dash
for that? could this POS be the source of the problem? it sure seems
like it since the pull-off doesnt seem to be the one actuating the
opening and closing of the plate when i am experiencing this problem...
at least she appears to be drivable and will start 'reliably' as long
as i have my little piece of wood handy(to prop open the plate). i feel
kinda stupid tho and would like to nail this problem so i can move on
to all the other issues... exhaust, valve cover leak, wheel alignment,
etc etc etc - she's a greedy jealous little bitc... err thing - just
like all my girlfriends, no wonder i'm already in love.
bennett

PS thanks esp to Mike and Roy for all their time and patience - and
kudos to you Bob, got it (at least partially) right on the first
guess...

 

ok. i replaced the pull off with the correct model - they seemed
completely identical to me but what do i know? - now when she is cold i
notice that the choke plate (butterfly) is partially open and she will
start up 90% of the time. HOWEVER - if she doesnt catch, i cannot get
her start as per earlier and upon inspection the choke plate is ALWAYS
CLOSED. if i then use something to physically hold the choke plate open
- no problem, she will start with a little rough idle for 1-3 seconds
probably due to the flooding...
so, having replaced the choke pull off, and the vacuum line to the pull
off, should i consider replacing the choke thermostat sensor or
whatever its called? it would make a nice paperweight i suppose, and i
could put a manual choke in... would i have to drill a hole in my dash
for that? could this POS be the source of the problem? it sure seems
like it since the pull-off doesnt seem to be the one actuating the
opening and closing of the plate when i am experiencing this problem...
at least she appears to be drivable and will start 'reliably' as long
as i have my little piece of wood handy(to prop open the plate). i feel
kinda stupid tho and would like to nail this problem so i can move on
to all the other issues... exhaust, valve cover leak, wheel alignment,
etc etc etc - she's a greedy jealous little bitc... err thing - just
like all my girlfriends, no wonder i'm already in love.
bennett

PS thanks esp to Mike and Roy for all their time and patience - and
kudos to you Bob, got it (at least partially) right on the first
guess...

 

ok. i replaced the pull off with the correct model - they seemed
completely identical to me but what do i know? - now when she is cold i
notice that the choke plate (butterfly) is partially open and she will
start up 90% of the time. HOWEVER - if she doesnt catch, i cannot get
her start as per earlier and upon inspection the choke plate is ALWAYS
CLOSED. if i then use something to physically hold the choke plate open
- no problem, she will start with a little rough idle for 1-3 seconds
probably due to the flooding...
so, having replaced the choke pull off, and the vacuum line to the pull
off, should i consider replacing the choke thermostat sensor or
whatever its called? it would make a nice paperweight i suppose, and i
could put a manual choke in... would i have to drill a hole in my dash
for that? could this POS be the source of the problem? it sure seems
like it since the pull-off doesnt seem to be the one actuating the
opening and closing of the plate when i am experiencing this problem...
at least she appears to be drivable and will start 'reliably' as long
as i have my little piece of wood handy(to prop open the plate). i feel
kinda stupid tho and would like to nail this problem so i can move on
to all the other issues... exhaust, valve cover leak, wheel alignment,
etc etc etc - she's a greedy jealous little bitc... err thing - just
like all my girlfriends, no wonder i'm already in love.
bennett

PS thanks esp to Mike and Roy for all their time and patience - and
kudos to you Bob, got it (at least partially) right on the first
guess...

 

ok. i replaced the pull off with the correct model - they seemed
completely identical to me but what do i know? - now when she is cold i
notice that the choke plate (butterfly) is partially open and she will
start up 90% of the time. HOWEVER - if she doesnt catch, i cannot get
her start as per earlier and upon inspection the choke plate is ALWAYS
CLOSED. if i then use something to physically hold the choke plate open
- no problem, she will start with a little rough idle for 1-3 seconds
probably due to the flooding...
so, having replaced the choke pull off, and the vacuum line to the pull
off, should i consider replacing the choke thermostat sensor or
whatever its called? it would make a nice paperweight i suppose, and i
could put a manual choke in... would i have to drill a hole in my dash
for that? could this POS be the source of the problem? it sure seems
like it since the pull-off doesnt seem to be the one actuating the
opening and closing of the plate when i am experiencing this problem...
at least she appears to be drivable and will start 'reliably' as long
as i have my little piece of wood handy(to prop open the plate). i feel
kinda stupid tho and would like to nail this problem so i can move on
to all the other issues... exhaust, valve cover leak, wheel alignment,
etc etc etc - she's a greedy jealous little bitc... err thing - just
like all my girlfriends, no wonder i'm already in love.
bennett

PS thanks esp to Mike and Roy for all their time and patience - and
kudos to you Bob, got it (at least partially) right on the first
guess...

 

ok. i replaced the pull off with the correct model - they seemed
completely identical to me but what do i know? - now when she is cold i
notice that the choke plate (butterfly) is partially open and she will
start up 90% of the time. HOWEVER - if she doesnt catch, i cannot get
her start as per earlier and upon inspection the choke plate is ALWAYS
CLOSED. if i then use something to physically hold the choke plate open
- no problem, she will start with a little rough idle for 1-3 seconds
probably due to the flooding...
so, having replaced the choke pull off, and the vacuum line to the pull
off, should i consider replacing the choke thermostat sensor or
whatever its called? it would make a nice paperweight i suppose, and i
could put a manual choke in... would i have to drill a hole in my dash
for that? could this POS be the source of the problem? it sure seems
like it since the pull-off doesnt seem to be the one actuating the
opening and closing of the plate when i am experiencing this problem...
at least she appears to be drivable and will start 'reliably' as long
as i have my little piece of wood handy(to prop open the plate). i feel
kinda stupid tho and would like to nail this problem so i can move on
to all the other issues... exhaust, valve cover leak, wheel alignment,
etc etc etc - she's a greedy jealous little bitc... err thing - just
like all my girlfriends, no wonder i'm already in love.
bennett

PS thanks esp to Mike and Roy for all their time and patience - and
kudos to you Bob, got it (at least partially) right on the first
guess...

 

ok. i replaced the pull off with the correct model - they seemed
completely identical to me but what do i know? - now when she is cold i
notice that the choke plate (butterfly) is partially open and she will
start up 90% of the time. HOWEVER - if she doesnt catch, i cannot get
her start as per earlier and upon inspection the choke plate is ALWAYS
CLOSED. if i then use something to physically hold the choke plate open
- no problem, she will start with a little rough idle for 1-3 seconds
probably due to the flooding...
so, having replaced the choke pull off, and the vacuum line to the pull
off, should i consider replacing the choke thermostat sensor or
whatever its called? it would make a nice paperweight i suppose, and i
could put a manual choke in... would i have to drill a hole in my dash
for that? could this POS be the source of the problem? it sure seems
like it since the pull-off doesnt seem to be the one actuating the
opening and closing of the plate when i am experiencing this problem...
at least she appears to be drivable and will start 'reliably' as long
as i have my little piece of wood handy(to prop open the plate). i feel
kinda stupid tho and would like to nail this problem so i can move on
to all the other issues... exhaust, valve cover leak, wheel alignment,
etc etc etc - she's a greedy jealous little bitc... err thing - just
like all my girlfriends, no wonder i'm already in love.
bennett

PS thanks esp to Mike and Roy for all their time and patience - and
kudos to you Bob, got it (at least partially) right on the first
guess...