On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 02:56:46 -0600, Will Honea <whonea@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>bllsht wrote:
>
>> I take it you've never heard of ohm's law. Higher resistance doesn't
>> increase current flow.
>
>Unless you've designed switches, you probably don't know much about closure
>rate and contact pressure to minimize arc-over, either. Slow or soft
>closure allows momentary arcing which is a great way to weld contacts.
>Hard closure also helps overcome the oxidation layer that forms almost
>instantly on most pure metals like the copper used in those starter relays.
>All that is an effect of high resistance restricting the current through
>the solenoid coil which gives you a weak closure.

Never designed a switch, but have replaced many welded relays caused
by low current flow.

 

Mike, I agree with these numbers.

Greg, You should have over 12 volts and 12.65 sounds about right with
everything off. At idle you should have over 13 volts, about 13.8 at
fast idle if memory serves. Any more than that means your alternator
is working hard to charge the battery. Less than 12.5 volts at fast
idle indicates the alternator is not charging the battery. Do you have
a guage in the dash or an idiot light?

Merrill

On Mar 31, 11:52 am, "Mike" <m...@localnet.com> wrote:
> "Greg" <gregl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:p_uPh.4647$aG1.3248@pd7urf3no...
>
> > I read the rest of the replies, mostly argueing about resistence, anyway
> > Mike I cleaned all connections on bat. solinoid, and alt. only one I
> > didn't clean was one down at starter, and starter and bat cables are about
> > a year old.
> > Bill mentioned at some point bat. was disconnected while running, that
> > didn't happen, but when I thought the bat. was dead the other day I used
> > my battery charger which has a setting for 70 amps to start a vehicle,
> > which I used and it arced when disconncting it. I replaced everything on
> > engine when I put a rebuilt in 1 1/2 years ago, all but alt. Am I now
> > ready for that?
>
> First start with a known good battery. A fully charged battery should read
> around 12.65 volts. The voltage reading you got when ckecking your battery,
> 11.96, indicates a battery that is 80% DISCHARGED.
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Greg" <gregl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:4DjPh.2163$DE1.150@pd7urf2no...
> >> Here's the story, jeep hasn't ran for couple months, went to start it
> >> the other day to move it out of garage, it was dead, jumped it, moved it
> >> out of garage, tried starting again, just click click, click, I figured
> >> battery was gone as this is the same one I left lights on for a week last
> >> year, everyone said wouldn't come back, but it did, been fine for the
> >> year. I was all ready to go get new battery and figured I would put the
> >> meter on it to make sure, it was 11.96, that sounds like a fully charged
> >> bat. to me, so I replaced the solinoid, thinking that was it. On first
> >> start up, when I turned the key to on there was a buzzing for about 10
> >> seconds, about as long as it took me to put gas to floor twice to choke
> >> it, anyway started fine, drove it up and down road, and parked in
> >> driveway, shut it off and restarted it fine. Today when I went to start
> >> it, it went click, click, click, then started, but started didn't stop
> >> starting, I turned the key to off, still running and starter still
> >> starting, daughter yells turn it off, I hold up key to her!!, so I stick
> >> it back in and turn it to start again and it stops the starter, so I move
> >> the jeep to where I wanted it, start it 2 times fine, so what the hell
> >> was that???????- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

 

Mike, I agree with these numbers.

Greg, You should have over 12 volts and 12.65 sounds about right with
everything off. At idle you should have over 13 volts, about 13.8 at
fast idle if memory serves. Any more than that means your alternator
is working hard to charge the battery. Less than 12.5 volts at fast
idle indicates the alternator is not charging the battery. Do you have
a guage in the dash or an idiot light?

Merrill

On Mar 31, 11:52 am, "Mike" <m...@localnet.com> wrote:
> "Greg" <gregl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:p_uPh.4647$aG1.3248@pd7urf3no...
>
> > I read the rest of the replies, mostly argueing about resistence, anyway
> > Mike I cleaned all connections on bat. solinoid, and alt. only one I
> > didn't clean was one down at starter, and starter and bat cables are about
> > a year old.
> > Bill mentioned at some point bat. was disconnected while running, that
> > didn't happen, but when I thought the bat. was dead the other day I used
> > my battery charger which has a setting for 70 amps to start a vehicle,
> > which I used and it arced when disconncting it. I replaced everything on
> > engine when I put a rebuilt in 1 1/2 years ago, all but alt. Am I now
> > ready for that?
>
> First start with a known good battery. A fully charged battery should read
> around 12.65 volts. The voltage reading you got when ckecking your battery,
> 11.96, indicates a battery that is 80% DISCHARGED.
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Greg" <gregl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:4DjPh.2163$DE1.150@pd7urf2no...
> >> Here's the story, jeep hasn't ran for couple months, went to start it
> >> the other day to move it out of garage, it was dead, jumped it, moved it
> >> out of garage, tried starting again, just click click, click, I figured
> >> battery was gone as this is the same one I left lights on for a week last
> >> year, everyone said wouldn't come back, but it did, been fine for the
> >> year. I was all ready to go get new battery and figured I would put the
> >> meter on it to make sure, it was 11.96, that sounds like a fully charged
> >> bat. to me, so I replaced the solinoid, thinking that was it. On first
> >> start up, when I turned the key to on there was a buzzing for about 10
> >> seconds, about as long as it took me to put gas to floor twice to choke
> >> it, anyway started fine, drove it up and down road, and parked in
> >> driveway, shut it off and restarted it fine. Today when I went to start
> >> it, it went click, click, click, then started, but started didn't stop
> >> starting, I turned the key to off, still running and starter still
> >> starting, daughter yells turn it off, I hold up key to her!!, so I stick
> >> it back in and turn it to start again and it stops the starter, so I move
> >> the jeep to where I wanted it, start it 2 times fine, so what the hell
> >> was that???????- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

 

Mike, I agree with these numbers.

Greg, You should have over 12 volts and 12.65 sounds about right with
everything off. At idle you should have over 13 volts, about 13.8 at
fast idle if memory serves. Any more than that means your alternator
is working hard to charge the battery. Less than 12.5 volts at fast
idle indicates the alternator is not charging the battery. Do you have
a guage in the dash or an idiot light?

Merrill

On Mar 31, 11:52 am, "Mike" <m...@localnet.com> wrote:
> "Greg" <gregl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:p_uPh.4647$aG1.3248@pd7urf3no...
>
> > I read the rest of the replies, mostly argueing about resistence, anyway
> > Mike I cleaned all connections on bat. solinoid, and alt. only one I
> > didn't clean was one down at starter, and starter and bat cables are about
> > a year old.
> > Bill mentioned at some point bat. was disconnected while running, that
> > didn't happen, but when I thought the bat. was dead the other day I used
> > my battery charger which has a setting for 70 amps to start a vehicle,
> > which I used and it arced when disconncting it. I replaced everything on
> > engine when I put a rebuilt in 1 1/2 years ago, all but alt. Am I now
> > ready for that?
>
> First start with a known good battery. A fully charged battery should read
> around 12.65 volts. The voltage reading you got when ckecking your battery,
> 11.96, indicates a battery that is 80% DISCHARGED.
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Greg" <gregl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:4DjPh.2163$DE1.150@pd7urf2no...
> >> Here's the story, jeep hasn't ran for couple months, went to start it
> >> the other day to move it out of garage, it was dead, jumped it, moved it
> >> out of garage, tried starting again, just click click, click, I figured
> >> battery was gone as this is the same one I left lights on for a week last
> >> year, everyone said wouldn't come back, but it did, been fine for the
> >> year. I was all ready to go get new battery and figured I would put the
> >> meter on it to make sure, it was 11.96, that sounds like a fully charged
> >> bat. to me, so I replaced the solinoid, thinking that was it. On first
> >> start up, when I turned the key to on there was a buzzing for about 10
> >> seconds, about as long as it took me to put gas to floor twice to choke
> >> it, anyway started fine, drove it up and down road, and parked in
> >> driveway, shut it off and restarted it fine. Today when I went to start
> >> it, it went click, click, click, then started, but started didn't stop
> >> starting, I turned the key to off, still running and starter still
> >> starting, daughter yells turn it off, I hold up key to her!!, so I stick
> >> it back in and turn it to start again and it stops the starter, so I move
> >> the jeep to where I wanted it, start it 2 times fine, so what the hell
> >> was that???????- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

 

"Mike" <mik@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:ClwPh.5969$ya1.4904@news02.roc.ny...
>
> "Greg" <greglc84@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:p_uPh.4647$aG1.3248@pd7urf3no...
>> I read the rest of the replies, mostly argueing about resistence, anyway
>> Mike I cleaned all connections on bat. solinoid, and alt. only one I
>> didn't clean was one down at starter, and starter and bat cables are
>> about a year old.
>> Bill mentioned at some point bat. was disconnected while running, that
>> didn't happen, but when I thought the bat. was dead the other day I used
>> my battery charger which has a setting for 70 amps to start a vehicle,
>> which I used and it arced when disconncting it. I replaced everything on
>> engine when I put a rebuilt in 1 1/2 years ago, all but alt. Am I now
>> ready for that?
>
>
> First start with a known good battery. A fully charged battery should
> read around 12.65 volts. The voltage reading you got when ckecking your
> battery, 11.96, indicates a battery that is 80% DISCHARGED.
>
>
>

80% discharged!? No, how about 20% discharged?.

Actually, 11.96 is 94.5% of 12.65. This makes the discharge rate to be less
than 6%.

 

"Mike" <mik@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:ClwPh.5969$ya1.4904@news02.roc.ny...
>
> "Greg" <greglc84@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:p_uPh.4647$aG1.3248@pd7urf3no...
>> I read the rest of the replies, mostly argueing about resistence, anyway
>> Mike I cleaned all connections on bat. solinoid, and alt. only one I
>> didn't clean was one down at starter, and starter and bat cables are
>> about a year old.
>> Bill mentioned at some point bat. was disconnected while running, that
>> didn't happen, but when I thought the bat. was dead the other day I used
>> my battery charger which has a setting for 70 amps to start a vehicle,
>> which I used and it arced when disconncting it. I replaced everything on
>> engine when I put a rebuilt in 1 1/2 years ago, all but alt. Am I now
>> ready for that?
>
>
> First start with a known good battery. A fully charged battery should
> read around 12.65 volts. The voltage reading you got when ckecking your
> battery, 11.96, indicates a battery that is 80% DISCHARGED.
>
>
>

80% discharged!? No, how about 20% discharged?.

Actually, 11.96 is 94.5% of 12.65. This makes the discharge rate to be less
than 6%.

 

"Mike" <mik@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:ClwPh.5969$ya1.4904@news02.roc.ny...
>
> "Greg" <greglc84@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:p_uPh.4647$aG1.3248@pd7urf3no...
>> I read the rest of the replies, mostly argueing about resistence, anyway
>> Mike I cleaned all connections on bat. solinoid, and alt. only one I
>> didn't clean was one down at starter, and starter and bat cables are
>> about a year old.
>> Bill mentioned at some point bat. was disconnected while running, that
>> didn't happen, but when I thought the bat. was dead the other day I used
>> my battery charger which has a setting for 70 amps to start a vehicle,
>> which I used and it arced when disconncting it. I replaced everything on
>> engine when I put a rebuilt in 1 1/2 years ago, all but alt. Am I now
>> ready for that?
>
>
> First start with a known good battery. A fully charged battery should
> read around 12.65 volts. The voltage reading you got when ckecking your
> battery, 11.96, indicates a battery that is 80% DISCHARGED.
>
>
>

80% discharged!? No, how about 20% discharged?.

Actually, 11.96 is 94.5% of 12.65. This makes the discharge rate to be less
than 6%.

 

My starter had a bad winding, or whatever, and did the same thing as the
OP's.

Usually it would start after trying a few times, and this simulated a
battery problem for a while. I eventually had enough of a problem that I was
able to isolate the battery as a good component, which left the starter
itself as the failure point.






"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:460e970f$0$2657$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
> If the connection down at the starter is bad enough to cause that, then
> the cable should get hot. I would try it a few times to see.
>
> Other than that, the low battery might be the only issue. When the
> starter draws on the low battery arcs can seem to happen for whatever
> reason.....
> ;-)
>
> Mike
>
> Greg wrote:
>> I read the rest of the replies, mostly argueing about resistence, anyway
>> Mike I cleaned all connections on bat. solinoid, and alt. only one I
>> didn't clean was one down at starter, and starter and bat cables are
>> about a year old.
>> Bill mentioned at some point bat. was disconnected while running, that
>> didn't happen, but when I thought the bat. was dead the other day I used
>> my battery charger which has a setting for 70 amps to start a vehicle,
>> which I used and it arced when disconncting it. I replaced everything on
>> engine when I put a rebuilt in 1 1/2 years ago, all but alt. Am I now
>> ready for that?
>>
>>
>> "Greg" <greglc84@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4DjPh.2163$DE1.150@pd7urf2no...
>>> Here's the story, jeep hasn't ran for couple months, went to start it
>>> the other day to move it out of garage, it was dead, jumped it, moved it
>>> out of garage, tried starting again, just click click, click, I figured
>>> battery was gone as this is the same one I left lights on for a week
>>> last year, everyone said wouldn't come back, but it did, been fine for
>>> the year. I was all ready to go get new battery and figured I would put
>>> the meter on it to make sure, it was 11.96, that sounds like a fully
>>> charged bat. to me, so I replaced the solinoid, thinking that was it. On
>>> first start up, when I turned the key to on there was a buzzing for
>>> about 10 seconds, about as long as it took me to put gas to floor twice
>>> to choke it, anyway started fine, drove it up and down road, and parked
>>> in driveway, shut it off and restarted it fine. Today when I went to
>>> start it, it went click, click, click, then started, but started didn't
>>> stop starting, I turned the key to off, still running and starter still
>>> starting, daughter yells turn it off, I hold up key to her!!, so I stick
>>> it back in and turn it to start again and it stops the starter, so I
>>> move the jeep to where I wanted it, start it 2 times fine, so what the
>>> hell was that???????
>>>
>>

 

My starter had a bad winding, or whatever, and did the same thing as the
OP's.

Usually it would start after trying a few times, and this simulated a
battery problem for a while. I eventually had enough of a problem that I was
able to isolate the battery as a good component, which left the starter
itself as the failure point.






"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:460e970f$0$2657$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
> If the connection down at the starter is bad enough to cause that, then
> the cable should get hot. I would try it a few times to see.
>
> Other than that, the low battery might be the only issue. When the
> starter draws on the low battery arcs can seem to happen for whatever
> reason.....
> ;-)
>
> Mike
>
> Greg wrote:
>> I read the rest of the replies, mostly argueing about resistence, anyway
>> Mike I cleaned all connections on bat. solinoid, and alt. only one I
>> didn't clean was one down at starter, and starter and bat cables are
>> about a year old.
>> Bill mentioned at some point bat. was disconnected while running, that
>> didn't happen, but when I thought the bat. was dead the other day I used
>> my battery charger which has a setting for 70 amps to start a vehicle,
>> which I used and it arced when disconncting it. I replaced everything on
>> engine when I put a rebuilt in 1 1/2 years ago, all but alt. Am I now
>> ready for that?
>>
>>
>> "Greg" <greglc84@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4DjPh.2163$DE1.150@pd7urf2no...
>>> Here's the story, jeep hasn't ran for couple months, went to start it
>>> the other day to move it out of garage, it was dead, jumped it, moved it
>>> out of garage, tried starting again, just click click, click, I figured
>>> battery was gone as this is the same one I left lights on for a week
>>> last year, everyone said wouldn't come back, but it did, been fine for
>>> the year. I was all ready to go get new battery and figured I would put
>>> the meter on it to make sure, it was 11.96, that sounds like a fully
>>> charged bat. to me, so I replaced the solinoid, thinking that was it. On
>>> first start up, when I turned the key to on there was a buzzing for
>>> about 10 seconds, about as long as it took me to put gas to floor twice
>>> to choke it, anyway started fine, drove it up and down road, and parked
>>> in driveway, shut it off and restarted it fine. Today when I went to
>>> start it, it went click, click, click, then started, but started didn't
>>> stop starting, I turned the key to off, still running and starter still
>>> starting, daughter yells turn it off, I hold up key to her!!, so I stick
>>> it back in and turn it to start again and it stops the starter, so I
>>> move the jeep to where I wanted it, start it 2 times fine, so what the
>>> hell was that???????
>>>
>>

 

My starter had a bad winding, or whatever, and did the same thing as the
OP's.

Usually it would start after trying a few times, and this simulated a
battery problem for a while. I eventually had enough of a problem that I was
able to isolate the battery as a good component, which left the starter
itself as the failure point.






"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:460e970f$0$2657$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
> If the connection down at the starter is bad enough to cause that, then
> the cable should get hot. I would try it a few times to see.
>
> Other than that, the low battery might be the only issue. When the
> starter draws on the low battery arcs can seem to happen for whatever
> reason.....
> ;-)
>
> Mike
>
> Greg wrote:
>> I read the rest of the replies, mostly argueing about resistence, anyway
>> Mike I cleaned all connections on bat. solinoid, and alt. only one I
>> didn't clean was one down at starter, and starter and bat cables are
>> about a year old.
>> Bill mentioned at some point bat. was disconnected while running, that
>> didn't happen, but when I thought the bat. was dead the other day I used
>> my battery charger which has a setting for 70 amps to start a vehicle,
>> which I used and it arced when disconncting it. I replaced everything on
>> engine when I put a rebuilt in 1 1/2 years ago, all but alt. Am I now
>> ready for that?
>>
>>
>> "Greg" <greglc84@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4DjPh.2163$DE1.150@pd7urf2no...
>>> Here's the story, jeep hasn't ran for couple months, went to start it
>>> the other day to move it out of garage, it was dead, jumped it, moved it
>>> out of garage, tried starting again, just click click, click, I figured
>>> battery was gone as this is the same one I left lights on for a week
>>> last year, everyone said wouldn't come back, but it did, been fine for
>>> the year. I was all ready to go get new battery and figured I would put
>>> the meter on it to make sure, it was 11.96, that sounds like a fully
>>> charged bat. to me, so I replaced the solinoid, thinking that was it. On
>>> first start up, when I turned the key to on there was a buzzing for
>>> about 10 seconds, about as long as it took me to put gas to floor twice
>>> to choke it, anyway started fine, drove it up and down road, and parked
>>> in driveway, shut it off and restarted it fine. Today when I went to
>>> start it, it went click, click, click, then started, but started didn't
>>> stop starting, I turned the key to off, still running and starter still
>>> starting, daughter yells turn it off, I hold up key to her!!, so I stick
>>> it back in and turn it to start again and it stops the starter, so I
>>> move the jeep to where I wanted it, start it 2 times fine, so what the
>>> hell was that???????
>>>
>>