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Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Yup, that's the one.
Chris "Frank" <ftownsen@verizon.net> wrote in message news:DcQLg.10407$YZ3.927@trnddc03... > This one? > > Super Tuning and Modifying Carter Carburetors for Performance, Street and > Off-Road Applications, Dave Emanuel > > http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0931472113/ > > > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message > news:RjPLg.1352$d72.768@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com... >> Dave, you shouldn't have a problem tuning the Carter/Edelbrock carb, and >> yes, they are basically the same carb inside. I believe the jets and rods >> interchange, but I'm not positive on that. I do know that the Edelbrock >> carb is heavily based on the Carter design. If you understand basic carb >> functioning, and what the rods and jets do for the mixture, it will be a >> simple process to get it dialed in. If you ruin in to problems, I'm sure >> we can get you going in the right direction. Also, there is a book >> available called Carter Carb Tuning. Most of it will apply to the >> Edelbrock as well. I had the book at one time, but loaned it out and >> never got it back. I do know that the book is very thorough. >> >> Chris >> >> >> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message >> news:FiGLg.14805$r61.8273@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk... >>> Thanks. Looks like perhaps I should have ordered the calibration kit in >>> retrospect. Anyhow, after a 2 week wait, it has arrived so I'll fit at >>> the >>> weekend. >>> >>> Quite looking forward to it - my carb experience has been mainly with >>> multiple SU's (single barrel downdraft) and the odd side draft Weber - >>> never done anything on a 4 barrel like Holley or Edelbrock before. >>> >>> Dave Milne, Scotland >>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ >>> "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message >>> news:1lDLg.1336$d72.134@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com... >>>> Dave, >>>> >>>> When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from >>> the >>>> factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They >>> don't >>>> know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, >>>> or >>> if >>>> it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also >>> don't >>>> know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline >>> settings >>>> they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the >>>> applications >>>> they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be >>>> optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich, >>> but >>>> it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will >>>> probably be pretty damn close to right. >>>> >>>> The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the >>> mixture >>>> based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring, >>>> similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the >>>> metering >>> rod >>>> spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The >>>> rods >>>> are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller >>>> diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively >>>> increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the >>>> engine >>>> runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or >>>> wide >>>> open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a >>>> larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high >>>> vacuum >>>> conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only >>>> require >>> 1 >>>> or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message >>>> news:OeuLg.14311$r61.1621@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk... >>>> > Any idea if the Edelbrock 600cfm 1405 Performer + Edelbrock 2131 >>> manifold >>>> > will require a metering or jet change on a stock 360 '91 Grand >>>> > Wagoneer >>> ? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Dave Milne, Scotland >>>> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ >>>> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message >>>> > news:cliLg.1294$d72.56@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com... >>>> >> Without knowing what size carb, choke or no choke, and which >>>> >> manifold, >>> it >>>> > is >>>> >> hard to tell you what the problem could be. What I can tell you is >>>> >> that >>>> >> Edelbrock and Holley carbs are both set up from the factory with a >>>> >> general >>>> >> tune. This mean the carb may or may not need to be set up properly >>>> >> for >>>> > your >>>> >> particular engine. In general, the Edelbrock carbs run too rich with >>> the >>>> >> factory set up. Normally they will require a metering rod change, >>>> >> and >>>> > maybe >>>> >> a jet change as well. You also don't specify the cam specs. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > |
Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Yup, that's the one.
Chris "Frank" <ftownsen@verizon.net> wrote in message news:DcQLg.10407$YZ3.927@trnddc03... > This one? > > Super Tuning and Modifying Carter Carburetors for Performance, Street and > Off-Road Applications, Dave Emanuel > > http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0931472113/ > > > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message > news:RjPLg.1352$d72.768@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com... >> Dave, you shouldn't have a problem tuning the Carter/Edelbrock carb, and >> yes, they are basically the same carb inside. I believe the jets and rods >> interchange, but I'm not positive on that. I do know that the Edelbrock >> carb is heavily based on the Carter design. If you understand basic carb >> functioning, and what the rods and jets do for the mixture, it will be a >> simple process to get it dialed in. If you ruin in to problems, I'm sure >> we can get you going in the right direction. Also, there is a book >> available called Carter Carb Tuning. Most of it will apply to the >> Edelbrock as well. I had the book at one time, but loaned it out and >> never got it back. I do know that the book is very thorough. >> >> Chris >> >> >> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message >> news:FiGLg.14805$r61.8273@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk... >>> Thanks. Looks like perhaps I should have ordered the calibration kit in >>> retrospect. Anyhow, after a 2 week wait, it has arrived so I'll fit at >>> the >>> weekend. >>> >>> Quite looking forward to it - my carb experience has been mainly with >>> multiple SU's (single barrel downdraft) and the odd side draft Weber - >>> never done anything on a 4 barrel like Holley or Edelbrock before. >>> >>> Dave Milne, Scotland >>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ >>> "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message >>> news:1lDLg.1336$d72.134@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com... >>>> Dave, >>>> >>>> When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from >>> the >>>> factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They >>> don't >>>> know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, >>>> or >>> if >>>> it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also >>> don't >>>> know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline >>> settings >>>> they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the >>>> applications >>>> they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be >>>> optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich, >>> but >>>> it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will >>>> probably be pretty damn close to right. >>>> >>>> The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the >>> mixture >>>> based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring, >>>> similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the >>>> metering >>> rod >>>> spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The >>>> rods >>>> are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller >>>> diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively >>>> increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the >>>> engine >>>> runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or >>>> wide >>>> open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a >>>> larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high >>>> vacuum >>>> conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only >>>> require >>> 1 >>>> or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message >>>> news:OeuLg.14311$r61.1621@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk... >>>> > Any idea if the Edelbrock 600cfm 1405 Performer + Edelbrock 2131 >>> manifold >>>> > will require a metering or jet change on a stock 360 '91 Grand >>>> > Wagoneer >>> ? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Dave Milne, Scotland >>>> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ >>>> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message >>>> > news:cliLg.1294$d72.56@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com... >>>> >> Without knowing what size carb, choke or no choke, and which >>>> >> manifold, >>> it >>>> > is >>>> >> hard to tell you what the problem could be. What I can tell you is >>>> >> that >>>> >> Edelbrock and Holley carbs are both set up from the factory with a >>>> >> general >>>> >> tune. This mean the carb may or may not need to be set up properly >>>> >> for >>>> > your >>>> >> particular engine. In general, the Edelbrock carbs run too rich with >>> the >>>> >> factory set up. Normally they will require a metering rod change, >>>> >> and >>>> > maybe >>>> >> a jet change as well. You also don't specify the cam specs. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > |
Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Yup, that's the one.
Chris "Frank" <ftownsen@verizon.net> wrote in message news:DcQLg.10407$YZ3.927@trnddc03... > This one? > > Super Tuning and Modifying Carter Carburetors for Performance, Street and > Off-Road Applications, Dave Emanuel > > http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0931472113/ > > > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message > news:RjPLg.1352$d72.768@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com... >> Dave, you shouldn't have a problem tuning the Carter/Edelbrock carb, and >> yes, they are basically the same carb inside. I believe the jets and rods >> interchange, but I'm not positive on that. I do know that the Edelbrock >> carb is heavily based on the Carter design. If you understand basic carb >> functioning, and what the rods and jets do for the mixture, it will be a >> simple process to get it dialed in. If you ruin in to problems, I'm sure >> we can get you going in the right direction. Also, there is a book >> available called Carter Carb Tuning. Most of it will apply to the >> Edelbrock as well. I had the book at one time, but loaned it out and >> never got it back. I do know that the book is very thorough. >> >> Chris >> >> >> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message >> news:FiGLg.14805$r61.8273@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk... >>> Thanks. Looks like perhaps I should have ordered the calibration kit in >>> retrospect. Anyhow, after a 2 week wait, it has arrived so I'll fit at >>> the >>> weekend. >>> >>> Quite looking forward to it - my carb experience has been mainly with >>> multiple SU's (single barrel downdraft) and the odd side draft Weber - >>> never done anything on a 4 barrel like Holley or Edelbrock before. >>> >>> Dave Milne, Scotland >>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ >>> "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message >>> news:1lDLg.1336$d72.134@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com... >>>> Dave, >>>> >>>> When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from >>> the >>>> factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They >>> don't >>>> know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, >>>> or >>> if >>>> it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also >>> don't >>>> know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline >>> settings >>>> they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the >>>> applications >>>> they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be >>>> optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich, >>> but >>>> it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will >>>> probably be pretty damn close to right. >>>> >>>> The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the >>> mixture >>>> based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring, >>>> similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the >>>> metering >>> rod >>>> spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The >>>> rods >>>> are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller >>>> diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively >>>> increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the >>>> engine >>>> runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or >>>> wide >>>> open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a >>>> larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high >>>> vacuum >>>> conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only >>>> require >>> 1 >>>> or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message >>>> news:OeuLg.14311$r61.1621@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk... >>>> > Any idea if the Edelbrock 600cfm 1405 Performer + Edelbrock 2131 >>> manifold >>>> > will require a metering or jet change on a stock 360 '91 Grand >>>> > Wagoneer >>> ? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Dave Milne, Scotland >>>> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ >>>> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message >>>> > news:cliLg.1294$d72.56@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com... >>>> >> Without knowing what size carb, choke or no choke, and which >>>> >> manifold, >>> it >>>> > is >>>> >> hard to tell you what the problem could be. What I can tell you is >>>> >> that >>>> >> Edelbrock and Holley carbs are both set up from the factory with a >>>> >> general >>>> >> tune. This mean the carb may or may not need to be set up properly >>>> >> for >>>> > your >>>> >> particular engine. In general, the Edelbrock carbs run too rich with >>> the >>>> >> factory set up. Normally they will require a metering rod change, >>>> >> and >>>> > maybe >>>> >> a jet change as well. You also don't specify the cam specs. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > |
Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Our rule of thumb was to leave the carbs alone and fix the ignition system first. Then open up the exhaust with good headers and pipes at which point you could usually go a bit richer on the carbs without fouling plugs as much at low speed. Best to put on a good manifold as well. With a really good ignition, the plug fouling was usually not as big a problem, often with a bypass to go back to stock to make it easier to read the plugs for tuning the gas/air flow. L.W.(Bill) ------ III proclaimed: > The rule of thumb was during the muscle car era, was any carburetor > that came form the factory needed to be jetted by about ten percent, of > course that was too rich for the street and fouled plugs, but it was > that little edge I had on everyone. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > c wrote: > >>Dave, >> >>When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from the >>factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They don't >>know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, or if >>it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also don't >>know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline settings >>they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the applications >>they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be >>optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich, but >>it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will >>probably be pretty damn close to right. >> >>The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the mixture >>based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring, >>similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the metering rod >>spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The rods >>are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller >>diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively >>increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the engine >>runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or wide >>open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a >>larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high vacuum >>conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only require 1 >>or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be. >> >>Chris |
Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Our rule of thumb was to leave the carbs alone and fix the ignition system first. Then open up the exhaust with good headers and pipes at which point you could usually go a bit richer on the carbs without fouling plugs as much at low speed. Best to put on a good manifold as well. With a really good ignition, the plug fouling was usually not as big a problem, often with a bypass to go back to stock to make it easier to read the plugs for tuning the gas/air flow. L.W.(Bill) ------ III proclaimed: > The rule of thumb was during the muscle car era, was any carburetor > that came form the factory needed to be jetted by about ten percent, of > course that was too rich for the street and fouled plugs, but it was > that little edge I had on everyone. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > c wrote: > >>Dave, >> >>When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from the >>factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They don't >>know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, or if >>it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also don't >>know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline settings >>they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the applications >>they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be >>optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich, but >>it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will >>probably be pretty damn close to right. >> >>The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the mixture >>based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring, >>similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the metering rod >>spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The rods >>are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller >>diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively >>increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the engine >>runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or wide >>open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a >>larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high vacuum >>conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only require 1 >>or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be. >> >>Chris |
Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Our rule of thumb was to leave the carbs alone and fix the ignition system first. Then open up the exhaust with good headers and pipes at which point you could usually go a bit richer on the carbs without fouling plugs as much at low speed. Best to put on a good manifold as well. With a really good ignition, the plug fouling was usually not as big a problem, often with a bypass to go back to stock to make it easier to read the plugs for tuning the gas/air flow. L.W.(Bill) ------ III proclaimed: > The rule of thumb was during the muscle car era, was any carburetor > that came form the factory needed to be jetted by about ten percent, of > course that was too rich for the street and fouled plugs, but it was > that little edge I had on everyone. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > c wrote: > >>Dave, >> >>When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from the >>factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They don't >>know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, or if >>it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also don't >>know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline settings >>they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the applications >>they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be >>optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich, but >>it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will >>probably be pretty damn close to right. >> >>The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the mixture >>based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring, >>similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the metering rod >>spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The rods >>are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller >>diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively >>increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the engine >>runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or wide >>open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a >>larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high vacuum >>conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only require 1 >>or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be. >> >>Chris |
Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Mallory dual point, total 38 degrees on the crank. first transistor
ignitions were junk along with all factory stock ignition that limited at five grand. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Lon wrote: > > Our rule of thumb was to leave the carbs alone and fix the ignition > system first. Then open up the exhaust with good headers and pipes at > which point you could usually go a bit richer on the carbs without > fouling plugs as much at low speed. Best to put on a good manifold as > well. With a really good ignition, the plug fouling was usually not as > big a problem, often with a bypass to go back to stock to make it easier > to read the plugs for tuning the gas/air flow. |
Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Mallory dual point, total 38 degrees on the crank. first transistor
ignitions were junk along with all factory stock ignition that limited at five grand. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Lon wrote: > > Our rule of thumb was to leave the carbs alone and fix the ignition > system first. Then open up the exhaust with good headers and pipes at > which point you could usually go a bit richer on the carbs without > fouling plugs as much at low speed. Best to put on a good manifold as > well. With a really good ignition, the plug fouling was usually not as > big a problem, often with a bypass to go back to stock to make it easier > to read the plugs for tuning the gas/air flow. |
Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Mallory dual point, total 38 degrees on the crank. first transistor
ignitions were junk along with all factory stock ignition that limited at five grand. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Lon wrote: > > Our rule of thumb was to leave the carbs alone and fix the ignition > system first. Then open up the exhaust with good headers and pipes at > which point you could usually go a bit richer on the carbs without > fouling plugs as much at low speed. Best to put on a good manifold as > well. With a really good ignition, the plug fouling was usually not as > big a problem, often with a bypass to go back to stock to make it easier > to read the plugs for tuning the gas/air flow. |
Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
Chrysler's first generation electronic ignition was accurate to 9000+ rpm.
They came both with and without limiters. The models with limiters came in 2 or 3 settings There was also an easy to install retrofit available from the parts department that was initially limited to the V-8 models. "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:4500A6A0.DCE527E0@cox.net... > Mallory dual point, total 38 degrees on the crank. first transistor > ignitions were junk along with all factory stock ignition that limited > at five grand. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Lon wrote: >> >> Our rule of thumb was to leave the carbs alone and fix the ignition >> system first. Then open up the exhaust with good headers and pipes at >> which point you could usually go a bit richer on the carbs without >> fouling plugs as much at low speed. Best to put on a good manifold as >> well. With a really good ignition, the plug fouling was usually not as >> big a problem, often with a bypass to go back to stock to make it easier >> to read the plugs for tuning the gas/air flow. |
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