Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

Need to correct myself here. I misread the cam specs. The duration was 276
in 1966-1967 and 284 after that.

"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:08DLg.1333$d72.94@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>I guess that means that any car that has a 426 Street Hemi in it isn't
>considered a musclecar.
>
> http://www.426-hemi.com/hemi/info/tech/426/specs.htm
>
> Just a "little" 276/284 split duration cam in those grandma engines that
> had 2 4 barrel carbs from the factory. Also the 340/440 6-pack engines if
> those rich old grannies couldn't afford the hemi in their new car back
> then. And to think my whole life I though most grandmas would have enough
> power with 425 HP rated engine that actually made closer to 500 HP when
> you wound them a little higher. Those darn grannies!!!
>
> Chris
>
> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:44FE834F.9A86A61C@cox.net...
>> You need a cam of at least 270 degrees, like AMC use in the sixties
>> to be able to use a four barrel:
>> http://www.compcams.com/technical/Ca...6-07/16-19.pdf Stock muscle
>> cars used 300 degrees of duration.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> Dave Milne wrote:
>>>
>>> Any idea if the Edelbrock 600cfm 1405 Performer + Edelbrock 2131
>>> manifold
>>> will require a metering or jet change on a stock 360 '91 Grand Wagoneer
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
>

Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

Need to correct myself here. I misread the cam specs. The duration was 276
in 1966-1967 and 284 after that.

"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:08DLg.1333$d72.94@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>I guess that means that any car that has a 426 Street Hemi in it isn't
>considered a musclecar.
>
> http://www.426-hemi.com/hemi/info/tech/426/specs.htm
>
> Just a "little" 276/284 split duration cam in those grandma engines that
> had 2 4 barrel carbs from the factory. Also the 340/440 6-pack engines if
> those rich old grannies couldn't afford the hemi in their new car back
> then. And to think my whole life I though most grandmas would have enough
> power with 425 HP rated engine that actually made closer to 500 HP when
> you wound them a little higher. Those darn grannies!!!
>
> Chris
>
> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:44FE834F.9A86A61C@cox.net...
>> You need a cam of at least 270 degrees, like AMC use in the sixties
>> to be able to use a four barrel:
>> http://www.compcams.com/technical/Ca...6-07/16-19.pdf Stock muscle
>> cars used 300 degrees of duration.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> Dave Milne wrote:
>>>
>>> Any idea if the Edelbrock 600cfm 1405 Performer + Edelbrock 2131
>>> manifold
>>> will require a metering or jet change on a stock 360 '91 Grand Wagoneer
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
>

Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

Thanks. Looks like perhaps I should have ordered the calibration kit in
retrospect. Anyhow, after a 2 week wait, it has arrived so I'll fit at the
weekend.

Quite looking forward to it - my carb experience has been mainly with
multiple SU's (single barrel downdraft) and the odd side draft Weber -
never done anything on a 4 barrel like Holley or Edelbrock before.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:1lDLg.1336$d72.134@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Dave,
>
> When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from
the
> factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They
don't
> know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, or
if
> it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also
don't
> know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline
settings
> they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the applications
> they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be
> optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich,
but
> it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will
> probably be pretty damn close to right.
>
> The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the
mixture
> based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring,
> similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the metering
rod
> spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The rods
> are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller
> diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively
> increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the engine
> runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or wide
> open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a
> larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high vacuum
> conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only require
1
> or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be.
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> news:OeuLg.14311$r61.1621@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> > Any idea if the Edelbrock 600cfm 1405 Performer + Edelbrock 2131
manifold
> > will require a metering or jet change on a stock 360 '91 Grand Wagoneer
?
> >
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:cliLg.1294$d72.56@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >> Without knowing what size carb, choke or no choke, and which manifold,
it
> > is
> >> hard to tell you what the problem could be. What I can tell you is that
> >> Edelbrock and Holley carbs are both set up from the factory with a
> >> general
> >> tune. This mean the carb may or may not need to be set up properly for
> > your
> >> particular engine. In general, the Edelbrock carbs run too rich with
the
> >> factory set up. Normally they will require a metering rod change, and
> > maybe
> >> a jet change as well. You also don't specify the cam specs.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

Thanks. Looks like perhaps I should have ordered the calibration kit in
retrospect. Anyhow, after a 2 week wait, it has arrived so I'll fit at the
weekend.

Quite looking forward to it - my carb experience has been mainly with
multiple SU's (single barrel downdraft) and the odd side draft Weber -
never done anything on a 4 barrel like Holley or Edelbrock before.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:1lDLg.1336$d72.134@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Dave,
>
> When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from
the
> factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They
don't
> know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, or
if
> it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also
don't
> know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline
settings
> they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the applications
> they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be
> optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich,
but
> it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will
> probably be pretty damn close to right.
>
> The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the
mixture
> based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring,
> similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the metering
rod
> spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The rods
> are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller
> diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively
> increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the engine
> runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or wide
> open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a
> larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high vacuum
> conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only require
1
> or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be.
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> news:OeuLg.14311$r61.1621@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> > Any idea if the Edelbrock 600cfm 1405 Performer + Edelbrock 2131
manifold
> > will require a metering or jet change on a stock 360 '91 Grand Wagoneer
?
> >
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:cliLg.1294$d72.56@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >> Without knowing what size carb, choke or no choke, and which manifold,
it
> > is
> >> hard to tell you what the problem could be. What I can tell you is that
> >> Edelbrock and Holley carbs are both set up from the factory with a
> >> general
> >> tune. This mean the carb may or may not need to be set up properly for
> > your
> >> particular engine. In general, the Edelbrock carbs run too rich with
the
> >> factory set up. Normally they will require a metering rod change, and
> > maybe
> >> a jet change as well. You also don't specify the cam specs.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

Thanks. Looks like perhaps I should have ordered the calibration kit in
retrospect. Anyhow, after a 2 week wait, it has arrived so I'll fit at the
weekend.

Quite looking forward to it - my carb experience has been mainly with
multiple SU's (single barrel downdraft) and the odd side draft Weber -
never done anything on a 4 barrel like Holley or Edelbrock before.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:1lDLg.1336$d72.134@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Dave,
>
> When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from
the
> factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They
don't
> know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, or
if
> it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also
don't
> know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline
settings
> they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the applications
> they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be
> optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich,
but
> it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will
> probably be pretty damn close to right.
>
> The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the
mixture
> based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring,
> similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the metering
rod
> spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The rods
> are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller
> diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively
> increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the engine
> runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or wide
> open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a
> larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high vacuum
> conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only require
1
> or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be.
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> news:OeuLg.14311$r61.1621@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> > Any idea if the Edelbrock 600cfm 1405 Performer + Edelbrock 2131
manifold
> > will require a metering or jet change on a stock 360 '91 Grand Wagoneer
?
> >
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> > "c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
> > news:cliLg.1294$d72.56@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >> Without knowing what size carb, choke or no choke, and which manifold,
it
> > is
> >> hard to tell you what the problem could be. What I can tell you is that
> >> Edelbrock and Holley carbs are both set up from the factory with a
> >> general
> >> tune. This mean the carb may or may not need to be set up properly for
> > your
> >> particular engine. In general, the Edelbrock carbs run too rich with
the
> >> factory set up. Normally they will require a metering rod change, and
> > maybe
> >> a jet change as well. You also don't specify the cam specs.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

The whole idea of a hemispherical chapped dome is to fit bigger
valves. Maybe they thought that was adequate for a street engine. And
keep their customers from sucking valves. I ran 330 degrees with an ISky
Roller: http://www.----------.com/IskyRR1000.jpg In my Seven:
http://----------.com/thunderb.htm What do you run?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

c wrote:
>
> Need to correct myself here. I misread the cam specs. The duration was 276
> in 1966-1967 and 284 after that.

Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

The whole idea of a hemispherical chapped dome is to fit bigger
valves. Maybe they thought that was adequate for a street engine. And
keep their customers from sucking valves. I ran 330 degrees with an ISky
Roller: http://www.----------.com/IskyRR1000.jpg In my Seven:
http://----------.com/thunderb.htm What do you run?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

c wrote:
>
> Need to correct myself here. I misread the cam specs. The duration was 276
> in 1966-1967 and 284 after that.

Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

The whole idea of a hemispherical chapped dome is to fit bigger
valves. Maybe they thought that was adequate for a street engine. And
keep their customers from sucking valves. I ran 330 degrees with an ISky
Roller: http://www.----------.com/IskyRR1000.jpg In my Seven:
http://----------.com/thunderb.htm What do you run?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

c wrote:
>
> Need to correct myself here. I misread the cam specs. The duration was 276
> in 1966-1967 and 284 after that.

Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

The rule of thumb was during the muscle car era, was any carburetor
that came form the factory needed to be jetted by about ten percent, of
course that was too rich for the street and fouled plugs, but it was
that little edge I had on everyone.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

c wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from the
> factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They don't
> know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, or if
> it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also don't
> know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline settings
> they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the applications
> they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be
> optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich, but
> it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will
> probably be pretty damn close to right.
>
> The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the mixture
> based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring,
> similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the metering rod
> spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The rods
> are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller
> diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively
> increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the engine
> runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or wide
> open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a
> larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high vacuum
> conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only require 1
> or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be.
>
> Chris

Re: '79 304 Edelbrock carb problems vs Holley carbs?
 

The rule of thumb was during the muscle car era, was any carburetor
that came form the factory needed to be jetted by about ten percent, of
course that was too rich for the street and fouled plugs, but it was
that little edge I had on everyone.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

c wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> When the companies that make carb give them their initial settings from the
> factory, they take all kinds of compromised in to consideration. They don't
> know if the carb will be used on a large or small displacement engine, or if
> it will be used in hot or cold climate, high altitude, etc. They also don't
> know what other mods have been done to these engines. The baseline settings
> they give these carbs will allow them to run on most of the applications
> they will see, but they almost always require tuning to get them to be
> optimal. My guess would be that this carb would still be a little rich, but
> it is just a guess. I'm not saying it won't run, it will, and it will
> probably be pretty damn close to right.
>
> The metering rod system that Carter/Edelbrock uses will "adjust" the mixture
> based on engine vacuum. The rods are controlled by a piston and spring,
> similar to many other carbs. When the engine vacuum is low, the metering rod
> spring will start to overtake the vacuum pulling the piston down. The rods
> are tapered, and when they move up in the bore they are in, a smaller
> diameter of the rod will still be inside the main jet, effectively
> increasing the total main jet area that fuel can pass thru. If the engine
> runs too rich at high vacuum conditions, but is ok at low vacuum or wide
> open throttle, then you simply change the metering rod to on the has a
> larger diameter on the part of the rod that is in the jet at high vacuum
> conditions. It really is a simple process, and normally will only require 1
> or 2 sets of rods to get the carb where you need it to be.
>
> Chris