Good one, Bill. ;^)

Earle

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:43DB32DB.BD2EA9DA@***.net...
> Isn't Xterra one of those rice burners that only liberal
> wacko traitors would drive?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> "L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
> ><snip --------- propaganda>

 

Ron, I have wheeled Death Valley including the Lippincott Road and many
2wd minivans or Kias could do that road with little problem. When we
(actually a group from this newsgroup) were on Lippicott Road a few
years ago, we couldn't believe it was even marked 4wd. There's not much
in Death Valley that is legal to wheel that even requires 4wd any more
other than up in the Panamint Mountains. Check out my website that
shows me standing next to the Lippicott Road and laughing while pointing
at the sign recommending high clearance vehicles and 4wd.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

L. Ron Waddle wrote:
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>> I know the Xterra VERY well and it's nowhere near the TJ in terms of
>> it's offroad capabilities.
>
>
> Err, we were comparing the new Xterra Offroad (the Nissan equivalent of
> a Rubicon, new for 2006) to an '07 Wrangler. I agree that it is not
> equal to a TJ in terms of its offroad capabilities, but it is still
> quite capable. I have seen the new Xterra go places I could swear that a
> machine with IFS couldn't go, albeit you are correct, that it is no
> match for an '06 TJ. For the majority of people, the Xterra Offroad has
> all the offroad capability they need -- it will, for example, capably
> handle any of the 4x4 roads in Death Valley National Park, including
> roads such as Lippincott which are marked for short wheelbase 4x4's only
> (i.e., CJ's, TJ's, or Zukes only).
>
> You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler hobbyists
> in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few thousand are not
> going to keep Jeep in business either.
>
>> I know the XTerra better than I care to admit to here,
>
>
> Which XTerra, the old one or the new one? They are different machines.
> The old one was based on the Frontier chassis. The new one is based on
> the Titan chassis. The old one had a wheezy 3.1L V6 inherited from the
> Frontier. The new one has the much stronger 4.0L V6 from the Titan.
> About the only thing the same between them are styling cues.
>
> In case you are wondering, here are the statistics for the '06 XTerra
> Offroad and the '07 Rubicon:
>
> XTerra Offroad:
> overall length (inches): 178.7, overall width (inches): 72.8, overall
> height (inches): 74.9, ground clearance (inches): 9.5, wheelbase
> (inches): 106.3, front track (inches): 61.8, rear track (inches): 61.8
> and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 37.3 Curb weight 4402
>
>
> '07 Jeep:
> Length 152.8 (3881.1), Overall Width (without mirrors) 73.7 (1872.0)
> Overall Height, Hard top 72.3 (1836.4) Rubicon
> Wheelbase 95.4 (2423.2) Track, Front 61.9 (1572.3) Track, Rear 61.9
> 1572.3) Overhang, Front 26.7 (678.2) Overhang, Rear 30.6 (777.2) Weight
> 4104 lbs.
>
> The two vehicles are roughly the same weight, width and height. The
> Jeep's primary advantage in offroad situations is its shorter length and
> shorter wheelbase (less chance to high-side, easier to maneuver) and the
> extra articulation available via solid axle up front vs. IFS. That will
> be advantageous in rock-crawling situations (along with that trick
> electrically-disconnectable sway bar up front!). If you don't intend to
> rock-crawl, it is difficult to think of anything the '07 Jeep will do
> that the '06 XTerra won't do. Handle rough eroded roads that will
> high-side most vehicles? Check. Handle boggy fishing and hunting roads?
> Check. Handle trips on rough Forest Service fire roads to take yourself
> and your backpacking gear to a trailhead? Check. The XTerra OR certainly
> isn't a do-everything offroader like the TJ, but what it does do
> offroad, it does well enough for all but a tiny fraction of people -- a
> tiny fraction who aren't enough to keep a car company in business all by
> themselves. Thus, from a marketing point of view, the XTerra and the TJ
> are in the same marketing class, which is why DC is not going to be able
> to raise the price of the TJ much beyond the XTerra's price and still
> retain enough sales to keep the TJ on the market.
>
> So you're right, and you're wrong. The XTerra is not a TJ. But from a
> marketing point of view, it's close enough that Jeep can't raise the
> price of the TJ much above the XTerra's price point and still sell
> enough TJ's to justify selling them.
>
> -Elron

 

Ron, I have wheeled Death Valley including the Lippincott Road and many
2wd minivans or Kias could do that road with little problem. When we
(actually a group from this newsgroup) were on Lippicott Road a few
years ago, we couldn't believe it was even marked 4wd. There's not much
in Death Valley that is legal to wheel that even requires 4wd any more
other than up in the Panamint Mountains. Check out my website that
shows me standing next to the Lippicott Road and laughing while pointing
at the sign recommending high clearance vehicles and 4wd.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

L. Ron Waddle wrote:
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>> I know the Xterra VERY well and it's nowhere near the TJ in terms of
>> it's offroad capabilities.
>
>
> Err, we were comparing the new Xterra Offroad (the Nissan equivalent of
> a Rubicon, new for 2006) to an '07 Wrangler. I agree that it is not
> equal to a TJ in terms of its offroad capabilities, but it is still
> quite capable. I have seen the new Xterra go places I could swear that a
> machine with IFS couldn't go, albeit you are correct, that it is no
> match for an '06 TJ. For the majority of people, the Xterra Offroad has
> all the offroad capability they need -- it will, for example, capably
> handle any of the 4x4 roads in Death Valley National Park, including
> roads such as Lippincott which are marked for short wheelbase 4x4's only
> (i.e., CJ's, TJ's, or Zukes only).
>
> You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler hobbyists
> in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few thousand are not
> going to keep Jeep in business either.
>
>> I know the XTerra better than I care to admit to here,
>
>
> Which XTerra, the old one or the new one? They are different machines.
> The old one was based on the Frontier chassis. The new one is based on
> the Titan chassis. The old one had a wheezy 3.1L V6 inherited from the
> Frontier. The new one has the much stronger 4.0L V6 from the Titan.
> About the only thing the same between them are styling cues.
>
> In case you are wondering, here are the statistics for the '06 XTerra
> Offroad and the '07 Rubicon:
>
> XTerra Offroad:
> overall length (inches): 178.7, overall width (inches): 72.8, overall
> height (inches): 74.9, ground clearance (inches): 9.5, wheelbase
> (inches): 106.3, front track (inches): 61.8, rear track (inches): 61.8
> and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 37.3 Curb weight 4402
>
>
> '07 Jeep:
> Length 152.8 (3881.1), Overall Width (without mirrors) 73.7 (1872.0)
> Overall Height, Hard top 72.3 (1836.4) Rubicon
> Wheelbase 95.4 (2423.2) Track, Front 61.9 (1572.3) Track, Rear 61.9
> 1572.3) Overhang, Front 26.7 (678.2) Overhang, Rear 30.6 (777.2) Weight
> 4104 lbs.
>
> The two vehicles are roughly the same weight, width and height. The
> Jeep's primary advantage in offroad situations is its shorter length and
> shorter wheelbase (less chance to high-side, easier to maneuver) and the
> extra articulation available via solid axle up front vs. IFS. That will
> be advantageous in rock-crawling situations (along with that trick
> electrically-disconnectable sway bar up front!). If you don't intend to
> rock-crawl, it is difficult to think of anything the '07 Jeep will do
> that the '06 XTerra won't do. Handle rough eroded roads that will
> high-side most vehicles? Check. Handle boggy fishing and hunting roads?
> Check. Handle trips on rough Forest Service fire roads to take yourself
> and your backpacking gear to a trailhead? Check. The XTerra OR certainly
> isn't a do-everything offroader like the TJ, but what it does do
> offroad, it does well enough for all but a tiny fraction of people -- a
> tiny fraction who aren't enough to keep a car company in business all by
> themselves. Thus, from a marketing point of view, the XTerra and the TJ
> are in the same marketing class, which is why DC is not going to be able
> to raise the price of the TJ much beyond the XTerra's price and still
> retain enough sales to keep the TJ on the market.
>
> So you're right, and you're wrong. The XTerra is not a TJ. But from a
> marketing point of view, it's close enough that Jeep can't raise the
> price of the TJ much above the XTerra's price point and still sell
> enough TJ's to justify selling them.
>
> -Elron

 

Ron, I have wheeled Death Valley including the Lippincott Road and many
2wd minivans or Kias could do that road with little problem. When we
(actually a group from this newsgroup) were on Lippicott Road a few
years ago, we couldn't believe it was even marked 4wd. There's not much
in Death Valley that is legal to wheel that even requires 4wd any more
other than up in the Panamint Mountains. Check out my website that
shows me standing next to the Lippicott Road and laughing while pointing
at the sign recommending high clearance vehicles and 4wd.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

L. Ron Waddle wrote:
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>> I know the Xterra VERY well and it's nowhere near the TJ in terms of
>> it's offroad capabilities.
>
>
> Err, we were comparing the new Xterra Offroad (the Nissan equivalent of
> a Rubicon, new for 2006) to an '07 Wrangler. I agree that it is not
> equal to a TJ in terms of its offroad capabilities, but it is still
> quite capable. I have seen the new Xterra go places I could swear that a
> machine with IFS couldn't go, albeit you are correct, that it is no
> match for an '06 TJ. For the majority of people, the Xterra Offroad has
> all the offroad capability they need -- it will, for example, capably
> handle any of the 4x4 roads in Death Valley National Park, including
> roads such as Lippincott which are marked for short wheelbase 4x4's only
> (i.e., CJ's, TJ's, or Zukes only).
>
> You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler hobbyists
> in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few thousand are not
> going to keep Jeep in business either.
>
>> I know the XTerra better than I care to admit to here,
>
>
> Which XTerra, the old one or the new one? They are different machines.
> The old one was based on the Frontier chassis. The new one is based on
> the Titan chassis. The old one had a wheezy 3.1L V6 inherited from the
> Frontier. The new one has the much stronger 4.0L V6 from the Titan.
> About the only thing the same between them are styling cues.
>
> In case you are wondering, here are the statistics for the '06 XTerra
> Offroad and the '07 Rubicon:
>
> XTerra Offroad:
> overall length (inches): 178.7, overall width (inches): 72.8, overall
> height (inches): 74.9, ground clearance (inches): 9.5, wheelbase
> (inches): 106.3, front track (inches): 61.8, rear track (inches): 61.8
> and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 37.3 Curb weight 4402
>
>
> '07 Jeep:
> Length 152.8 (3881.1), Overall Width (without mirrors) 73.7 (1872.0)
> Overall Height, Hard top 72.3 (1836.4) Rubicon
> Wheelbase 95.4 (2423.2) Track, Front 61.9 (1572.3) Track, Rear 61.9
> 1572.3) Overhang, Front 26.7 (678.2) Overhang, Rear 30.6 (777.2) Weight
> 4104 lbs.
>
> The two vehicles are roughly the same weight, width and height. The
> Jeep's primary advantage in offroad situations is its shorter length and
> shorter wheelbase (less chance to high-side, easier to maneuver) and the
> extra articulation available via solid axle up front vs. IFS. That will
> be advantageous in rock-crawling situations (along with that trick
> electrically-disconnectable sway bar up front!). If you don't intend to
> rock-crawl, it is difficult to think of anything the '07 Jeep will do
> that the '06 XTerra won't do. Handle rough eroded roads that will
> high-side most vehicles? Check. Handle boggy fishing and hunting roads?
> Check. Handle trips on rough Forest Service fire roads to take yourself
> and your backpacking gear to a trailhead? Check. The XTerra OR certainly
> isn't a do-everything offroader like the TJ, but what it does do
> offroad, it does well enough for all but a tiny fraction of people -- a
> tiny fraction who aren't enough to keep a car company in business all by
> themselves. Thus, from a marketing point of view, the XTerra and the TJ
> are in the same marketing class, which is why DC is not going to be able
> to raise the price of the TJ much beyond the XTerra's price and still
> retain enough sales to keep the TJ on the market.
>
> So you're right, and you're wrong. The XTerra is not a TJ. But from a
> marketing point of view, it's close enough that Jeep can't raise the
> price of the TJ much above the XTerra's price point and still sell
> enough TJ's to justify selling them.
>
> -Elron

 

http://www.jjournal.net/jeep/features/NGCalicoRun/

Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> Ron, I have wheeled Death Valley including the Lippincott Road and many
> 2wd minivans or Kias could do that road with little problem. When we
> (actually a group from this newsgroup) were on Lippicott Road a few
> years ago, we couldn't believe it was even marked 4wd. There's not much
> in Death Valley that is legal to wheel that even requires 4wd any more
> other than up in the Panamint Mountains. Check out my website that
> shows me standing next to the Lippicott Road and laughing while pointing
> at the sign recommending high clearance vehicles and 4wd.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

 

http://www.jjournal.net/jeep/features/NGCalicoRun/

Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> Ron, I have wheeled Death Valley including the Lippincott Road and many
> 2wd minivans or Kias could do that road with little problem. When we
> (actually a group from this newsgroup) were on Lippicott Road a few
> years ago, we couldn't believe it was even marked 4wd. There's not much
> in Death Valley that is legal to wheel that even requires 4wd any more
> other than up in the Panamint Mountains. Check out my website that
> shows me standing next to the Lippicott Road and laughing while pointing
> at the sign recommending high clearance vehicles and 4wd.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

 

http://www.jjournal.net/jeep/features/NGCalicoRun/

Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> Ron, I have wheeled Death Valley including the Lippincott Road and many
> 2wd minivans or Kias could do that road with little problem. When we
> (actually a group from this newsgroup) were on Lippicott Road a few
> years ago, we couldn't believe it was even marked 4wd. There's not much
> in Death Valley that is legal to wheel that even requires 4wd any more
> other than up in the Panamint Mountains. Check out my website that
> shows me standing next to the Lippicott Road and laughing while pointing
> at the sign recommending high clearance vehicles and 4wd.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

 

I have the same dilemma.

I LIKE the straight 6. It's bullet-proof. In fact, I have the 2.5L 4 cyl
in my YJ with 162,000 miles on it and going strong. Plenty of grunt and
decent mileage.

The thought of a mini-van, robot-built V6 is a little unnerving. Especially
since Consumer Reports says there are reliability problems with that engine.

Another thing bothering me: The information on the 2006 Wrangler talks
about Quadra-track being "available". Are they implying that the base model
will be 2WD? In a Wrangler? That's heresy.

What are they doing to our Wrangler? Hands-off!

Dave

"INDIVIDUAL" <NOT@NOT.COM> wrote in message
news:43d50354$0$2937$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
> Just when I have decided to buy a 2006 Rubicon all this information on the
> 2007 comes out. I'm not a Jeep person but the specks for the 2007 look
> impressive as hell. In particular the more left elbow room when driving
> and the built in GPS unit. As long as they haven't gone to a unibody I
> think it might be wise to wait and get a 2007. Anybody care to share there
> opinions on this?
>

 

I have the same dilemma.

I LIKE the straight 6. It's bullet-proof. In fact, I have the 2.5L 4 cyl
in my YJ with 162,000 miles on it and going strong. Plenty of grunt and
decent mileage.

The thought of a mini-van, robot-built V6 is a little unnerving. Especially
since Consumer Reports says there are reliability problems with that engine.

Another thing bothering me: The information on the 2006 Wrangler talks
about Quadra-track being "available". Are they implying that the base model
will be 2WD? In a Wrangler? That's heresy.

What are they doing to our Wrangler? Hands-off!

Dave

"INDIVIDUAL" <NOT@NOT.COM> wrote in message
news:43d50354$0$2937$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
> Just when I have decided to buy a 2006 Rubicon all this information on the
> 2007 comes out. I'm not a Jeep person but the specks for the 2007 look
> impressive as hell. In particular the more left elbow room when driving
> and the built in GPS unit. As long as they haven't gone to a unibody I
> think it might be wise to wait and get a 2007. Anybody care to share there
> opinions on this?
>

 

I have the same dilemma.

I LIKE the straight 6. It's bullet-proof. In fact, I have the 2.5L 4 cyl
in my YJ with 162,000 miles on it and going strong. Plenty of grunt and
decent mileage.

The thought of a mini-van, robot-built V6 is a little unnerving. Especially
since Consumer Reports says there are reliability problems with that engine.

Another thing bothering me: The information on the 2006 Wrangler talks
about Quadra-track being "available". Are they implying that the base model
will be 2WD? In a Wrangler? That's heresy.

What are they doing to our Wrangler? Hands-off!

Dave

"INDIVIDUAL" <NOT@NOT.COM> wrote in message
news:43d50354$0$2937$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
> Just when I have decided to buy a 2006 Rubicon all this information on the
> 2007 comes out. I'm not a Jeep person but the specks for the 2007 look
> impressive as hell. In particular the more left elbow room when driving
> and the built in GPS unit. As long as they haven't gone to a unibody I
> think it might be wise to wait and get a 2007. Anybody care to share there
> opinions on this?
>