2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
01-28-2006, 03:43 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
Jerry Bransford wrote:
> I know the Xterra VERY well and it's nowhere near the TJ in terms of
> it's offroad capabilities.
Err, we were comparing the new Xterra Offroad (the Nissan equivalent of
a Rubicon, new for 2006) to an '07 Wrangler. I agree that it is not
equal to a TJ in terms of its offroad capabilities, but it is still
quite capable. I have seen the new Xterra go places I could swear that a
machine with IFS couldn't go, albeit you are correct, that it is no
match for an '06 TJ. For the majority of people, the Xterra Offroad has
all the offroad capability they need -- it will, for example, capably
handle any of the 4x4 roads in Death Valley National Park, including
roads such as Lippincott which are marked for short wheelbase 4x4's only
(i.e., CJ's, TJ's, or Zukes only).
You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler hobbyists
in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few thousand are not
going to keep Jeep in business either.
> I know the XTerra better than I care to admit to here,
Which XTerra, the old one or the new one? They are different machines.
The old one was based on the Frontier chassis. The new one is based on
the Titan chassis. The old one had a wheezy 3.1L V6 inherited from the
Frontier. The new one has the much stronger 4.0L V6 from the Titan.
About the only thing the same between them are styling cues.
In case you are wondering, here are the statistics for the '06 XTerra
Offroad and the '07 Rubicon:
XTerra Offroad:
overall length (inches): 178.7, overall width (inches): 72.8, overall
height (inches): 74.9, ground clearance (inches): 9.5, wheelbase
(inches): 106.3, front track (inches): 61.8, rear track (inches): 61.8
and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 37.3 Curb weight 4402
'07 Jeep:
Length 152.8 (3881.1), Overall Width (without mirrors) 73.7 (1872.0)
Overall Height, Hard top 72.3 (1836.4) Rubicon
Wheelbase 95.4 (2423.2) Track, Front 61.9 (1572.3) Track, Rear 61.9
1572.3) Overhang, Front 26.7 (678.2) Overhang, Rear 30.6 (777.2) Weight
4104 lbs.
The two vehicles are roughly the same weight, width and height. The
Jeep's primary advantage in offroad situations is its shorter length and
shorter wheelbase (less chance to high-side, easier to maneuver) and the
extra articulation available via solid axle up front vs. IFS. That will
be advantageous in rock-crawling situations (along with that trick
electrically-disconnectable sway bar up front!). If you don't intend to
rock-crawl, it is difficult to think of anything the '07 Jeep will do
that the '06 XTerra won't do. Handle rough eroded roads that will
high-side most vehicles? Check. Handle boggy fishing and hunting roads?
Check. Handle trips on rough Forest Service fire roads to take yourself
and your backpacking gear to a trailhead? Check. The XTerra OR certainly
isn't a do-everything offroader like the TJ, but what it does do
offroad, it does well enough for all but a tiny fraction of people -- a
tiny fraction who aren't enough to keep a car company in business all by
themselves. Thus, from a marketing point of view, the XTerra and the TJ
are in the same marketing class, which is why DC is not going to be able
to raise the price of the TJ much beyond the XTerra's price and still
retain enough sales to keep the TJ on the market.
So you're right, and you're wrong. The XTerra is not a TJ. But from a
marketing point of view, it's close enough that Jeep can't raise the
price of the TJ much above the XTerra's price point and still sell
enough TJ's to justify selling them.
-Elron
> I know the Xterra VERY well and it's nowhere near the TJ in terms of
> it's offroad capabilities.
Err, we were comparing the new Xterra Offroad (the Nissan equivalent of
a Rubicon, new for 2006) to an '07 Wrangler. I agree that it is not
equal to a TJ in terms of its offroad capabilities, but it is still
quite capable. I have seen the new Xterra go places I could swear that a
machine with IFS couldn't go, albeit you are correct, that it is no
match for an '06 TJ. For the majority of people, the Xterra Offroad has
all the offroad capability they need -- it will, for example, capably
handle any of the 4x4 roads in Death Valley National Park, including
roads such as Lippincott which are marked for short wheelbase 4x4's only
(i.e., CJ's, TJ's, or Zukes only).
You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler hobbyists
in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few thousand are not
going to keep Jeep in business either.
> I know the XTerra better than I care to admit to here,
Which XTerra, the old one or the new one? They are different machines.
The old one was based on the Frontier chassis. The new one is based on
the Titan chassis. The old one had a wheezy 3.1L V6 inherited from the
Frontier. The new one has the much stronger 4.0L V6 from the Titan.
About the only thing the same between them are styling cues.
In case you are wondering, here are the statistics for the '06 XTerra
Offroad and the '07 Rubicon:
XTerra Offroad:
overall length (inches): 178.7, overall width (inches): 72.8, overall
height (inches): 74.9, ground clearance (inches): 9.5, wheelbase
(inches): 106.3, front track (inches): 61.8, rear track (inches): 61.8
and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 37.3 Curb weight 4402
'07 Jeep:
Length 152.8 (3881.1), Overall Width (without mirrors) 73.7 (1872.0)
Overall Height, Hard top 72.3 (1836.4) Rubicon
Wheelbase 95.4 (2423.2) Track, Front 61.9 (1572.3) Track, Rear 61.9
1572.3) Overhang, Front 26.7 (678.2) Overhang, Rear 30.6 (777.2) Weight
4104 lbs.
The two vehicles are roughly the same weight, width and height. The
Jeep's primary advantage in offroad situations is its shorter length and
shorter wheelbase (less chance to high-side, easier to maneuver) and the
extra articulation available via solid axle up front vs. IFS. That will
be advantageous in rock-crawling situations (along with that trick
electrically-disconnectable sway bar up front!). If you don't intend to
rock-crawl, it is difficult to think of anything the '07 Jeep will do
that the '06 XTerra won't do. Handle rough eroded roads that will
high-side most vehicles? Check. Handle boggy fishing and hunting roads?
Check. Handle trips on rough Forest Service fire roads to take yourself
and your backpacking gear to a trailhead? Check. The XTerra OR certainly
isn't a do-everything offroader like the TJ, but what it does do
offroad, it does well enough for all but a tiny fraction of people -- a
tiny fraction who aren't enough to keep a car company in business all by
themselves. Thus, from a marketing point of view, the XTerra and the TJ
are in the same marketing class, which is why DC is not going to be able
to raise the price of the TJ much beyond the XTerra's price and still
retain enough sales to keep the TJ on the market.
So you're right, and you're wrong. The XTerra is not a TJ. But from a
marketing point of view, it's close enough that Jeep can't raise the
price of the TJ much above the XTerra's price point and still sell
enough TJ's to justify selling them.
-Elron
01-28-2006, 03:43 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
Jerry Bransford wrote:
> I know the Xterra VERY well and it's nowhere near the TJ in terms of
> it's offroad capabilities.
Err, we were comparing the new Xterra Offroad (the Nissan equivalent of
a Rubicon, new for 2006) to an '07 Wrangler. I agree that it is not
equal to a TJ in terms of its offroad capabilities, but it is still
quite capable. I have seen the new Xterra go places I could swear that a
machine with IFS couldn't go, albeit you are correct, that it is no
match for an '06 TJ. For the majority of people, the Xterra Offroad has
all the offroad capability they need -- it will, for example, capably
handle any of the 4x4 roads in Death Valley National Park, including
roads such as Lippincott which are marked for short wheelbase 4x4's only
(i.e., CJ's, TJ's, or Zukes only).
You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler hobbyists
in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few thousand are not
going to keep Jeep in business either.
> I know the XTerra better than I care to admit to here,
Which XTerra, the old one or the new one? They are different machines.
The old one was based on the Frontier chassis. The new one is based on
the Titan chassis. The old one had a wheezy 3.1L V6 inherited from the
Frontier. The new one has the much stronger 4.0L V6 from the Titan.
About the only thing the same between them are styling cues.
In case you are wondering, here are the statistics for the '06 XTerra
Offroad and the '07 Rubicon:
XTerra Offroad:
overall length (inches): 178.7, overall width (inches): 72.8, overall
height (inches): 74.9, ground clearance (inches): 9.5, wheelbase
(inches): 106.3, front track (inches): 61.8, rear track (inches): 61.8
and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 37.3 Curb weight 4402
'07 Jeep:
Length 152.8 (3881.1), Overall Width (without mirrors) 73.7 (1872.0)
Overall Height, Hard top 72.3 (1836.4) Rubicon
Wheelbase 95.4 (2423.2) Track, Front 61.9 (1572.3) Track, Rear 61.9
1572.3) Overhang, Front 26.7 (678.2) Overhang, Rear 30.6 (777.2) Weight
4104 lbs.
The two vehicles are roughly the same weight, width and height. The
Jeep's primary advantage in offroad situations is its shorter length and
shorter wheelbase (less chance to high-side, easier to maneuver) and the
extra articulation available via solid axle up front vs. IFS. That will
be advantageous in rock-crawling situations (along with that trick
electrically-disconnectable sway bar up front!). If you don't intend to
rock-crawl, it is difficult to think of anything the '07 Jeep will do
that the '06 XTerra won't do. Handle rough eroded roads that will
high-side most vehicles? Check. Handle boggy fishing and hunting roads?
Check. Handle trips on rough Forest Service fire roads to take yourself
and your backpacking gear to a trailhead? Check. The XTerra OR certainly
isn't a do-everything offroader like the TJ, but what it does do
offroad, it does well enough for all but a tiny fraction of people -- a
tiny fraction who aren't enough to keep a car company in business all by
themselves. Thus, from a marketing point of view, the XTerra and the TJ
are in the same marketing class, which is why DC is not going to be able
to raise the price of the TJ much beyond the XTerra's price and still
retain enough sales to keep the TJ on the market.
So you're right, and you're wrong. The XTerra is not a TJ. But from a
marketing point of view, it's close enough that Jeep can't raise the
price of the TJ much above the XTerra's price point and still sell
enough TJ's to justify selling them.
-Elron
> I know the Xterra VERY well and it's nowhere near the TJ in terms of
> it's offroad capabilities.
Err, we were comparing the new Xterra Offroad (the Nissan equivalent of
a Rubicon, new for 2006) to an '07 Wrangler. I agree that it is not
equal to a TJ in terms of its offroad capabilities, but it is still
quite capable. I have seen the new Xterra go places I could swear that a
machine with IFS couldn't go, albeit you are correct, that it is no
match for an '06 TJ. For the majority of people, the Xterra Offroad has
all the offroad capability they need -- it will, for example, capably
handle any of the 4x4 roads in Death Valley National Park, including
roads such as Lippincott which are marked for short wheelbase 4x4's only
(i.e., CJ's, TJ's, or Zukes only).
You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler hobbyists
in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few thousand are not
going to keep Jeep in business either.
> I know the XTerra better than I care to admit to here,
Which XTerra, the old one or the new one? They are different machines.
The old one was based on the Frontier chassis. The new one is based on
the Titan chassis. The old one had a wheezy 3.1L V6 inherited from the
Frontier. The new one has the much stronger 4.0L V6 from the Titan.
About the only thing the same between them are styling cues.
In case you are wondering, here are the statistics for the '06 XTerra
Offroad and the '07 Rubicon:
XTerra Offroad:
overall length (inches): 178.7, overall width (inches): 72.8, overall
height (inches): 74.9, ground clearance (inches): 9.5, wheelbase
(inches): 106.3, front track (inches): 61.8, rear track (inches): 61.8
and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 37.3 Curb weight 4402
'07 Jeep:
Length 152.8 (3881.1), Overall Width (without mirrors) 73.7 (1872.0)
Overall Height, Hard top 72.3 (1836.4) Rubicon
Wheelbase 95.4 (2423.2) Track, Front 61.9 (1572.3) Track, Rear 61.9
1572.3) Overhang, Front 26.7 (678.2) Overhang, Rear 30.6 (777.2) Weight
4104 lbs.
The two vehicles are roughly the same weight, width and height. The
Jeep's primary advantage in offroad situations is its shorter length and
shorter wheelbase (less chance to high-side, easier to maneuver) and the
extra articulation available via solid axle up front vs. IFS. That will
be advantageous in rock-crawling situations (along with that trick
electrically-disconnectable sway bar up front!). If you don't intend to
rock-crawl, it is difficult to think of anything the '07 Jeep will do
that the '06 XTerra won't do. Handle rough eroded roads that will
high-side most vehicles? Check. Handle boggy fishing and hunting roads?
Check. Handle trips on rough Forest Service fire roads to take yourself
and your backpacking gear to a trailhead? Check. The XTerra OR certainly
isn't a do-everything offroader like the TJ, but what it does do
offroad, it does well enough for all but a tiny fraction of people -- a
tiny fraction who aren't enough to keep a car company in business all by
themselves. Thus, from a marketing point of view, the XTerra and the TJ
are in the same marketing class, which is why DC is not going to be able
to raise the price of the TJ much beyond the XTerra's price and still
retain enough sales to keep the TJ on the market.
So you're right, and you're wrong. The XTerra is not a TJ. But from a
marketing point of view, it's close enough that Jeep can't raise the
price of the TJ much above the XTerra's price point and still sell
enough TJ's to justify selling them.
-Elron
01-28-2006, 03:53 AM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
"L. Ron Waddle" <penguincathedral@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:I8GCf.330585$vC.30227@fe12.news.easynews.com. ..
---snippy---
>
> You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler
> hobbyists in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few
> thousand are not going to keep Jeep in business either.
>
---snippy---
Duh.
Earle
news:I8GCf.330585$vC.30227@fe12.news.easynews.com. ..
---snippy---
>
> You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler
> hobbyists in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few
> thousand are not going to keep Jeep in business either.
>
---snippy---
Duh.
Earle
01-28-2006, 03:53 AM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
"L. Ron Waddle" <penguincathedral@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:I8GCf.330585$vC.30227@fe12.news.easynews.com. ..
---snippy---
>
> You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler
> hobbyists in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few
> thousand are not going to keep Jeep in business either.
>
---snippy---
Duh.
Earle
news:I8GCf.330585$vC.30227@fe12.news.easynews.com. ..
---snippy---
>
> You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler
> hobbyists in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few
> thousand are not going to keep Jeep in business either.
>
---snippy---
Duh.
Earle
01-28-2006, 03:53 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
"L. Ron Waddle" <penguincathedral@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:I8GCf.330585$vC.30227@fe12.news.easynews.com. ..
---snippy---
>
> You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler
> hobbyists in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few
> thousand are not going to keep Jeep in business either.
>
---snippy---
Duh.
Earle
news:I8GCf.330585$vC.30227@fe12.news.easynews.com. ..
---snippy---
>
> You are correct that the 4,000 or 5,000 serious rock crawler
> hobbyists in America will never buy an Xterra. But those few
> thousand are not going to keep Jeep in business either.
>
---snippy---
Duh.
Earle
01-28-2006, 04:01 AM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
Isn't Xterra one of those rice burners that only liberal wacko
traitors would drive?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
"L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
><snip --------- propaganda>
traitors would drive?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
"L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
><snip --------- propaganda>
01-28-2006, 04:01 AM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
Isn't Xterra one of those rice burners that only liberal wacko
traitors would drive?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
"L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
><snip --------- propaganda>
traitors would drive?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
"L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
><snip --------- propaganda>
01-28-2006, 04:01 AM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
Isn't Xterra one of those rice burners that only liberal wacko
traitors would drive?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
"L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
><snip --------- propaganda>
traitors would drive?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
"L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
><snip --------- propaganda>
01-28-2006, 04:35 AM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
Good one, Bill. ;^)
Earle
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:43DB32DB.BD2EA9DA@***.net...
> Isn't Xterra one of those rice burners that only liberal
> wacko traitors would drive?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> "L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
> ><snip --------- propaganda>
Earle
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:43DB32DB.BD2EA9DA@***.net...
> Isn't Xterra one of those rice burners that only liberal
> wacko traitors would drive?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> "L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
> ><snip --------- propaganda>
01-28-2006, 04:35 AM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 OR 2007 RUBICON?
Good one, Bill. ;^)
Earle
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:43DB32DB.BD2EA9DA@***.net...
> Isn't Xterra one of those rice burners that only liberal
> wacko traitors would drive?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> "L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
> ><snip --------- propaganda>
Earle
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:43DB32DB.BD2EA9DA@***.net...
> Isn't Xterra one of those rice burners that only liberal
> wacko traitors would drive?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> "L. Ron Waddle" wrote:
> ><snip --------- propaganda>