mabar

Don't ya just love Big Brother?



"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:426118F5.A94F9123@sympatico.ca...
> I don't know what else to call it......
>
> If I flunk emissions, I can give the garage $450.00 for 'repairs' and I
> get a pass no matter what the tail pipe says..... The amount is written
> right on the test.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Cherokee-Ltd wrote:
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > >
> > > On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx!!!!!.
> > >
> > > And 16 ppm HC
> > >
> > > And 0.11% CO
> > >
> >
> > Extortion test... love that one Mike!
> >
> > My numbers ('92 XJ 4L)
> >
> > (Limit/Reading)
> > ASM252
> > HC ppm 55 / 11
> > CO% 0.31 / 0.17
> > NO ppm 780 / 55
> >
> > Curb Idle
> > HC ppm 200 / 7
> > CO% 1.00 / 0.33
> >
> > -Brian

u know who

hi according the to gov of Ontario emissions pamphlet.
I must have a diagnostic performed by authorized fix place.
then according to there diagnostic sheet of probable causes I can do the
repairs according to only what is on the list up to the repair cost limit. I
must keep all receipts and the diagnostic list to show as proof. but only I
or the garage that did the test can work on my car to count toward the
limit.
I would get more bang for my buck if I do the work than paying them to do
it.

so couple of questions what happens when you have spent your 450 and then go
back 2 yrs later and you fail again and the list of repairs have been done
but ya still fail. oh and what happens when parts are no longer available
from any source to fix emissions components which I have all ready run into.
carbed jeeps rarely pass emissions and if they do they are so leaned out
that ya can't drive them.
next year the Howell fuel injection set up. I have already spoken to them
and there off road kit meets regular emission requirements other than cali.
plus the increase in fuel economy will make it worth it.

so cause they put the wrong engine I should get a free re test eh well I'll
try it and see.

now I'm starting to see why the guy sold this jeep.
still not deterred though just fed up with gov.

well I will be paying 170 for diagnostics that include carb and timing
adjustments, as well as emission components check.and they have the jeep for
the entire day.
that's got to be worth something there.


"Snow" <snowbal@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:9bb8e.26813$8i6.1037704@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> You might get burned on the theory of have the diagnostic tell you whats
> wrong and then do the work yourself. If you live here in the Land of
> "Dalton I'm dumber then rock M'ginty" (Ontario). You will need to show
> any and all work was preformed by an authorized repair facility in order
> to meet the cap quota. If you do $350.00 dollars of repairs on your own
> before the retest and still fail that $350.00 WON"T count towards the cap
> (about $550.00 IIRC).
>
> Also that cap is good for one time only, the first time a vehicle fails it
> has a repair cap and it will be granted a conditional pass (one time only)
> subsequent fails the vehicle is to be fixed until it passes.
>
> Two tests ago my 93 XJ fail, here is a breakdown of the repair charges by
> Cambodian Tire.
> Diagnostic $100.00
> O2 sensor $ 80.00
> Oil Change $ 15.00 (this was oil only)
> Air/Oil/Fuel filter $50.00 (filters only)
> Labour $145.00 ($60/hr)
> Total $390.00
>
> The cap was $500 as the test had been established in my area for sometime.
> The Cherokee still failed the retest after all that was done. The last
> thing the Tech. did before retesting was the oil change (cost about $20)
> main reason he did this was the next step in the T/S was to change the
> cat. $370.00 still allowed him to change the cat, $390.00 ment that repair
> would put me over the cap and he couldn't do it.
>
> I asked thenif I were to do the work (change the sensor) and return with
> it would they retest it, No problem, but if it still failed I would have
> to prove that a authorized shop fixed it otherwise I would still have that
> $500 cap, if an authorized shop fixed their charges would be deducted from
> the cap total and I would have the remaining still to spend.
>
> Snow...
>
> "u know who" <wraithyneon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:C908e.26607$8i6.969093@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
>> ya extortion test that's a good name for it.
>> it appears my egr is broken as the swivel vacuum nipple seems to be bent
>> and the housing of where the vacuum nipple sits is cracked and broken.
>>
>> I'm going to pay for the diagnostics test then take the recommendations
>> and do the work myself and keep a folder with receipts. then take it back
>> for the retest once I hit my limit. and also at that point I will have my
>> new egr and whatever else they recommend as well as my nutter bypass and
>> 3 ounces of acetone added to the fuel.
>>
>> On my e test they put that I have a 4.0L.
>> On my asm2525 test my NO ppm was 3677 timing was way to advanced limit
>> was 893. And curb idle test HC ppm was 325 limit was 200.reason idle to
>> high and mixture screws set to rich. also CO% was 1.03 missed a pass by
>> .04
>>
>> well at least I can assume that I should pass next time as the jeep was
>> so out of tune. reason for being out of tune I found a bad vacuum leak
>> and never adjusted the carb to reflect the stopped vacuum leak.
>>
>> been so long since I played with a carbed equipped veh. and the fact that
>> it is also computer controlled sucks. which basically means that some of
>> my adjustment can be over ruled by the computer.
>>
>> alwell
>>
>> keep fingers crossed for Tuesday. diagnostic day.
>> the retest down the road.
>> not so bad cause ministry issued me real plates even though it was a
>> resale change of ownership. so theoretically I don't require a test till
>> my plate renewal.
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:42607229.7E0A03D7@sympatico.ca...
>>> Oh, you can usually clean the EGR's out. Carbon is an issue and for
>>> sure you need one working to pass the sniffer.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> u know who wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hmmmmm
>>>> I read the nutter instructions sounds like this will have to be
>>>> something
>>>> that I will have to do to my 89yj as it will not pass emissions
>>>> the sad part is it was recommended that I may need a evap canister
>>>> guess
>>>> what no longer available anywhere.
>>>> government sucks
>>>>
>>>> if I fail then 450$ conditional pass, then 650$ ever 2 years really
>>>> sucks
>>>> I know I still need an egr though.
>>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:42605772.F0571EA0@sympatico.ca...
>>>> > All the junk can be left in place. It only requires 2 new wires from
>>>> > the ignition module to the distributor that fit inside the loom.
>>>> >
>>>> > You then just set the carb mix and timing. That's it!
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have to put it back, it is only 2 wires to change.....
>>>> >
>>>> > Mike
>>>> >
>>>> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> >> news:42604598.8FE80D28@sympatico.ca...
>>>> >> > Well after arguing myself blue with a 'mechanic' that says no way
>>>> >> > a
>>>> >> > Jeep
>>>> >> > with a carb can pass emissions in California if you disable the
>>>> >> > emissions computer or do a 'Nutter' on it after the first guy I
>>>> >> > think
>>>> >> > to
>>>> >> > put the directions online:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The problem is, in Calif., the system has to physically be
>>>> >> installed. I
>>>> >> don't know what the bypass entails, but if stuff is removed, then
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> vehicle fails because of the visual inspection that comes before the
>>>> >> sniff
>>>> >> test.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There is considerable irony here, the bypass can conceivably result
>>>> >> in
>>>> >> better performance with the sniffer, but because the system hasn't
>>>> >> got
>>>> >> all
>>>> >> of the components, it automatically fails. The vehicle can spit out
>>>> >> better
>>>> >> numbers, but if the parts are missing, it will fail. Sad - even
>>>> >> stupid -
>>>> >> but
>>>> >> true.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jnutter1.htm
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > It gives a sweet 25% 'seat of the pants' power boost and an 'easy'
>>>> >> > 10
>>>> >> > mph extra per gear.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > The mechanic's reasoning is the NOx will blow out or the timing
>>>> >> > will
>>>> >> > have to be too far back to pass.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > The Jeep numbers for an 89 YJ 4.2 in California are 875 NOx on the
>>>> >> > ASM
>>>> >> > 2525 test I was told.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I found my 2003 ASM 2525 emissions papers for my Canadian 1986 CJ7
>>>> >> > that
>>>> >> > I
>>>> >> > disabled the computer in.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Specs.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > - 1986 Canadian CJ7 4.2L, Likely 60,000 original miles on it.
>>>> >> > - 'No' Catalytic converter (not needed in Canada)
>>>> >> > - 2" straight pipe with a high flow Dynomax turbo muffler.
>>>> >> > - No computer, 'Nuttered'
>>>> >> > - Base timing set at 9 deg BTDC with the vacuum line off like the
>>>> >> > book
>>>> >> > says for a non computer engine. (If I go with the higher RPM
>>>> >> > setting of
>>>> >> > full advance the sticker on a YJ says, I end up with 6 or 7 deg.
>>>> >> > BTDC
>>>> >> > base and I find that too boggy for power so I even have room to
>>>> >> > play
>>>> >> > there.)
>>>> >> > - 92 octane ESSO gas.
>>>> >> > - Ported on the timing advance
>>>> >> > - Stock BBD carb set to 'best lean idle' and always a fresh $20.00
>>>> >> > rebuild kit for the test.
>>>> >> > - Accel Supercoil for hot spark with Champion plugs and OEM wires.
>>>> >> > - Strong pull up to 4400 rpm, then falls flat.
>>>> >> > - 11L/100km or something like 23 US mpg highway
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx!!!!!.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And 16 ppm HC
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And 0.11% CO
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Photo of the papers here:
>>>> >> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4290636987
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And a post on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 with the JPG photo
>>>> >> > of the
>>>> >> > paperwork.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Not a fluke, I killed the computer in 2000, this 2003 one was just
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > only year they actually put the NOx reading on because I don't
>>>> >> > have to
>>>> >> > pass that.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And the best part is I have passed the last test it ever will
>>>> >> > need! It
>>>> >> > becomes too old before the next one.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Mike
>>>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>>
>
>

u know who

hi according the to gov of Ontario emissions pamphlet.
I must have a diagnostic performed by authorized fix place.
then according to there diagnostic sheet of probable causes I can do the
repairs according to only what is on the list up to the repair cost limit. I
must keep all receipts and the diagnostic list to show as proof. but only I
or the garage that did the test can work on my car to count toward the
limit.
I would get more bang for my buck if I do the work than paying them to do
it.

so couple of questions what happens when you have spent your 450 and then go
back 2 yrs later and you fail again and the list of repairs have been done
but ya still fail. oh and what happens when parts are no longer available
from any source to fix emissions components which I have all ready run into.
carbed jeeps rarely pass emissions and if they do they are so leaned out
that ya can't drive them.
next year the Howell fuel injection set up. I have already spoken to them
and there off road kit meets regular emission requirements other than cali.
plus the increase in fuel economy will make it worth it.

so cause they put the wrong engine I should get a free re test eh well I'll
try it and see.

now I'm starting to see why the guy sold this jeep.
still not deterred though just fed up with gov.

well I will be paying 170 for diagnostics that include carb and timing
adjustments, as well as emission components check.and they have the jeep for
the entire day.
that's got to be worth something there.


"Snow" <snowbal@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:9bb8e.26813$8i6.1037704@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> You might get burned on the theory of have the diagnostic tell you whats
> wrong and then do the work yourself. If you live here in the Land of
> "Dalton I'm dumber then rock M'ginty" (Ontario). You will need to show
> any and all work was preformed by an authorized repair facility in order
> to meet the cap quota. If you do $350.00 dollars of repairs on your own
> before the retest and still fail that $350.00 WON"T count towards the cap
> (about $550.00 IIRC).
>
> Also that cap is good for one time only, the first time a vehicle fails it
> has a repair cap and it will be granted a conditional pass (one time only)
> subsequent fails the vehicle is to be fixed until it passes.
>
> Two tests ago my 93 XJ fail, here is a breakdown of the repair charges by
> Cambodian Tire.
> Diagnostic $100.00
> O2 sensor $ 80.00
> Oil Change $ 15.00 (this was oil only)
> Air/Oil/Fuel filter $50.00 (filters only)
> Labour $145.00 ($60/hr)
> Total $390.00
>
> The cap was $500 as the test had been established in my area for sometime.
> The Cherokee still failed the retest after all that was done. The last
> thing the Tech. did before retesting was the oil change (cost about $20)
> main reason he did this was the next step in the T/S was to change the
> cat. $370.00 still allowed him to change the cat, $390.00 ment that repair
> would put me over the cap and he couldn't do it.
>
> I asked thenif I were to do the work (change the sensor) and return with
> it would they retest it, No problem, but if it still failed I would have
> to prove that a authorized shop fixed it otherwise I would still have that
> $500 cap, if an authorized shop fixed their charges would be deducted from
> the cap total and I would have the remaining still to spend.
>
> Snow...
>
> "u know who" <wraithyneon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:C908e.26607$8i6.969093@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
>> ya extortion test that's a good name for it.
>> it appears my egr is broken as the swivel vacuum nipple seems to be bent
>> and the housing of where the vacuum nipple sits is cracked and broken.
>>
>> I'm going to pay for the diagnostics test then take the recommendations
>> and do the work myself and keep a folder with receipts. then take it back
>> for the retest once I hit my limit. and also at that point I will have my
>> new egr and whatever else they recommend as well as my nutter bypass and
>> 3 ounces of acetone added to the fuel.
>>
>> On my e test they put that I have a 4.0L.
>> On my asm2525 test my NO ppm was 3677 timing was way to advanced limit
>> was 893. And curb idle test HC ppm was 325 limit was 200.reason idle to
>> high and mixture screws set to rich. also CO% was 1.03 missed a pass by
>> .04
>>
>> well at least I can assume that I should pass next time as the jeep was
>> so out of tune. reason for being out of tune I found a bad vacuum leak
>> and never adjusted the carb to reflect the stopped vacuum leak.
>>
>> been so long since I played with a carbed equipped veh. and the fact that
>> it is also computer controlled sucks. which basically means that some of
>> my adjustment can be over ruled by the computer.
>>
>> alwell
>>
>> keep fingers crossed for Tuesday. diagnostic day.
>> the retest down the road.
>> not so bad cause ministry issued me real plates even though it was a
>> resale change of ownership. so theoretically I don't require a test till
>> my plate renewal.
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:42607229.7E0A03D7@sympatico.ca...
>>> Oh, you can usually clean the EGR's out. Carbon is an issue and for
>>> sure you need one working to pass the sniffer.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> u know who wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hmmmmm
>>>> I read the nutter instructions sounds like this will have to be
>>>> something
>>>> that I will have to do to my 89yj as it will not pass emissions
>>>> the sad part is it was recommended that I may need a evap canister
>>>> guess
>>>> what no longer available anywhere.
>>>> government sucks
>>>>
>>>> if I fail then 450$ conditional pass, then 650$ ever 2 years really
>>>> sucks
>>>> I know I still need an egr though.
>>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:42605772.F0571EA0@sympatico.ca...
>>>> > All the junk can be left in place. It only requires 2 new wires from
>>>> > the ignition module to the distributor that fit inside the loom.
>>>> >
>>>> > You then just set the carb mix and timing. That's it!
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have to put it back, it is only 2 wires to change.....
>>>> >
>>>> > Mike
>>>> >
>>>> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> >> news:42604598.8FE80D28@sympatico.ca...
>>>> >> > Well after arguing myself blue with a 'mechanic' that says no way
>>>> >> > a
>>>> >> > Jeep
>>>> >> > with a carb can pass emissions in California if you disable the
>>>> >> > emissions computer or do a 'Nutter' on it after the first guy I
>>>> >> > think
>>>> >> > to
>>>> >> > put the directions online:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The problem is, in Calif., the system has to physically be
>>>> >> installed. I
>>>> >> don't know what the bypass entails, but if stuff is removed, then
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> vehicle fails because of the visual inspection that comes before the
>>>> >> sniff
>>>> >> test.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There is considerable irony here, the bypass can conceivably result
>>>> >> in
>>>> >> better performance with the sniffer, but because the system hasn't
>>>> >> got
>>>> >> all
>>>> >> of the components, it automatically fails. The vehicle can spit out
>>>> >> better
>>>> >> numbers, but if the parts are missing, it will fail. Sad - even
>>>> >> stupid -
>>>> >> but
>>>> >> true.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jnutter1.htm
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > It gives a sweet 25% 'seat of the pants' power boost and an 'easy'
>>>> >> > 10
>>>> >> > mph extra per gear.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > The mechanic's reasoning is the NOx will blow out or the timing
>>>> >> > will
>>>> >> > have to be too far back to pass.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > The Jeep numbers for an 89 YJ 4.2 in California are 875 NOx on the
>>>> >> > ASM
>>>> >> > 2525 test I was told.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I found my 2003 ASM 2525 emissions papers for my Canadian 1986 CJ7
>>>> >> > that
>>>> >> > I
>>>> >> > disabled the computer in.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Specs.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > - 1986 Canadian CJ7 4.2L, Likely 60,000 original miles on it.
>>>> >> > - 'No' Catalytic converter (not needed in Canada)
>>>> >> > - 2" straight pipe with a high flow Dynomax turbo muffler.
>>>> >> > - No computer, 'Nuttered'
>>>> >> > - Base timing set at 9 deg BTDC with the vacuum line off like the
>>>> >> > book
>>>> >> > says for a non computer engine. (If I go with the higher RPM
>>>> >> > setting of
>>>> >> > full advance the sticker on a YJ says, I end up with 6 or 7 deg.
>>>> >> > BTDC
>>>> >> > base and I find that too boggy for power so I even have room to
>>>> >> > play
>>>> >> > there.)
>>>> >> > - 92 octane ESSO gas.
>>>> >> > - Ported on the timing advance
>>>> >> > - Stock BBD carb set to 'best lean idle' and always a fresh $20.00
>>>> >> > rebuild kit for the test.
>>>> >> > - Accel Supercoil for hot spark with Champion plugs and OEM wires.
>>>> >> > - Strong pull up to 4400 rpm, then falls flat.
>>>> >> > - 11L/100km or something like 23 US mpg highway
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx!!!!!.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And 16 ppm HC
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And 0.11% CO
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Photo of the papers here:
>>>> >> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4290636987
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And a post on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 with the JPG photo
>>>> >> > of the
>>>> >> > paperwork.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Not a fluke, I killed the computer in 2000, this 2003 one was just
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > only year they actually put the NOx reading on because I don't
>>>> >> > have to
>>>> >> > pass that.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And the best part is I have passed the last test it ever will
>>>> >> > need! It
>>>> >> > becomes too old before the next one.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Mike
>>>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>>
>
>

u know who

hi according the to gov of Ontario emissions pamphlet.
I must have a diagnostic performed by authorized fix place.
then according to there diagnostic sheet of probable causes I can do the
repairs according to only what is on the list up to the repair cost limit. I
must keep all receipts and the diagnostic list to show as proof. but only I
or the garage that did the test can work on my car to count toward the
limit.
I would get more bang for my buck if I do the work than paying them to do
it.

so couple of questions what happens when you have spent your 450 and then go
back 2 yrs later and you fail again and the list of repairs have been done
but ya still fail. oh and what happens when parts are no longer available
from any source to fix emissions components which I have all ready run into.
carbed jeeps rarely pass emissions and if they do they are so leaned out
that ya can't drive them.
next year the Howell fuel injection set up. I have already spoken to them
and there off road kit meets regular emission requirements other than cali.
plus the increase in fuel economy will make it worth it.

so cause they put the wrong engine I should get a free re test eh well I'll
try it and see.

now I'm starting to see why the guy sold this jeep.
still not deterred though just fed up with gov.

well I will be paying 170 for diagnostics that include carb and timing
adjustments, as well as emission components check.and they have the jeep for
the entire day.
that's got to be worth something there.


"Snow" <snowbal@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:9bb8e.26813$8i6.1037704@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> You might get burned on the theory of have the diagnostic tell you whats
> wrong and then do the work yourself. If you live here in the Land of
> "Dalton I'm dumber then rock M'ginty" (Ontario). You will need to show
> any and all work was preformed by an authorized repair facility in order
> to meet the cap quota. If you do $350.00 dollars of repairs on your own
> before the retest and still fail that $350.00 WON"T count towards the cap
> (about $550.00 IIRC).
>
> Also that cap is good for one time only, the first time a vehicle fails it
> has a repair cap and it will be granted a conditional pass (one time only)
> subsequent fails the vehicle is to be fixed until it passes.
>
> Two tests ago my 93 XJ fail, here is a breakdown of the repair charges by
> Cambodian Tire.
> Diagnostic $100.00
> O2 sensor $ 80.00
> Oil Change $ 15.00 (this was oil only)
> Air/Oil/Fuel filter $50.00 (filters only)
> Labour $145.00 ($60/hr)
> Total $390.00
>
> The cap was $500 as the test had been established in my area for sometime.
> The Cherokee still failed the retest after all that was done. The last
> thing the Tech. did before retesting was the oil change (cost about $20)
> main reason he did this was the next step in the T/S was to change the
> cat. $370.00 still allowed him to change the cat, $390.00 ment that repair
> would put me over the cap and he couldn't do it.
>
> I asked thenif I were to do the work (change the sensor) and return with
> it would they retest it, No problem, but if it still failed I would have
> to prove that a authorized shop fixed it otherwise I would still have that
> $500 cap, if an authorized shop fixed their charges would be deducted from
> the cap total and I would have the remaining still to spend.
>
> Snow...
>
> "u know who" <wraithyneon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:C908e.26607$8i6.969093@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
>> ya extortion test that's a good name for it.
>> it appears my egr is broken as the swivel vacuum nipple seems to be bent
>> and the housing of where the vacuum nipple sits is cracked and broken.
>>
>> I'm going to pay for the diagnostics test then take the recommendations
>> and do the work myself and keep a folder with receipts. then take it back
>> for the retest once I hit my limit. and also at that point I will have my
>> new egr and whatever else they recommend as well as my nutter bypass and
>> 3 ounces of acetone added to the fuel.
>>
>> On my e test they put that I have a 4.0L.
>> On my asm2525 test my NO ppm was 3677 timing was way to advanced limit
>> was 893. And curb idle test HC ppm was 325 limit was 200.reason idle to
>> high and mixture screws set to rich. also CO% was 1.03 missed a pass by
>> .04
>>
>> well at least I can assume that I should pass next time as the jeep was
>> so out of tune. reason for being out of tune I found a bad vacuum leak
>> and never adjusted the carb to reflect the stopped vacuum leak.
>>
>> been so long since I played with a carbed equipped veh. and the fact that
>> it is also computer controlled sucks. which basically means that some of
>> my adjustment can be over ruled by the computer.
>>
>> alwell
>>
>> keep fingers crossed for Tuesday. diagnostic day.
>> the retest down the road.
>> not so bad cause ministry issued me real plates even though it was a
>> resale change of ownership. so theoretically I don't require a test till
>> my plate renewal.
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:42607229.7E0A03D7@sympatico.ca...
>>> Oh, you can usually clean the EGR's out. Carbon is an issue and for
>>> sure you need one working to pass the sniffer.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> u know who wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hmmmmm
>>>> I read the nutter instructions sounds like this will have to be
>>>> something
>>>> that I will have to do to my 89yj as it will not pass emissions
>>>> the sad part is it was recommended that I may need a evap canister
>>>> guess
>>>> what no longer available anywhere.
>>>> government sucks
>>>>
>>>> if I fail then 450$ conditional pass, then 650$ ever 2 years really
>>>> sucks
>>>> I know I still need an egr though.
>>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:42605772.F0571EA0@sympatico.ca...
>>>> > All the junk can be left in place. It only requires 2 new wires from
>>>> > the ignition module to the distributor that fit inside the loom.
>>>> >
>>>> > You then just set the carb mix and timing. That's it!
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have to put it back, it is only 2 wires to change.....
>>>> >
>>>> > Mike
>>>> >
>>>> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> >> news:42604598.8FE80D28@sympatico.ca...
>>>> >> > Well after arguing myself blue with a 'mechanic' that says no way
>>>> >> > a
>>>> >> > Jeep
>>>> >> > with a carb can pass emissions in California if you disable the
>>>> >> > emissions computer or do a 'Nutter' on it after the first guy I
>>>> >> > think
>>>> >> > to
>>>> >> > put the directions online:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The problem is, in Calif., the system has to physically be
>>>> >> installed. I
>>>> >> don't know what the bypass entails, but if stuff is removed, then
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> vehicle fails because of the visual inspection that comes before the
>>>> >> sniff
>>>> >> test.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There is considerable irony here, the bypass can conceivably result
>>>> >> in
>>>> >> better performance with the sniffer, but because the system hasn't
>>>> >> got
>>>> >> all
>>>> >> of the components, it automatically fails. The vehicle can spit out
>>>> >> better
>>>> >> numbers, but if the parts are missing, it will fail. Sad - even
>>>> >> stupid -
>>>> >> but
>>>> >> true.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jnutter1.htm
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > It gives a sweet 25% 'seat of the pants' power boost and an 'easy'
>>>> >> > 10
>>>> >> > mph extra per gear.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > The mechanic's reasoning is the NOx will blow out or the timing
>>>> >> > will
>>>> >> > have to be too far back to pass.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > The Jeep numbers for an 89 YJ 4.2 in California are 875 NOx on the
>>>> >> > ASM
>>>> >> > 2525 test I was told.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I found my 2003 ASM 2525 emissions papers for my Canadian 1986 CJ7
>>>> >> > that
>>>> >> > I
>>>> >> > disabled the computer in.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Specs.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > - 1986 Canadian CJ7 4.2L, Likely 60,000 original miles on it.
>>>> >> > - 'No' Catalytic converter (not needed in Canada)
>>>> >> > - 2" straight pipe with a high flow Dynomax turbo muffler.
>>>> >> > - No computer, 'Nuttered'
>>>> >> > - Base timing set at 9 deg BTDC with the vacuum line off like the
>>>> >> > book
>>>> >> > says for a non computer engine. (If I go with the higher RPM
>>>> >> > setting of
>>>> >> > full advance the sticker on a YJ says, I end up with 6 or 7 deg.
>>>> >> > BTDC
>>>> >> > base and I find that too boggy for power so I even have room to
>>>> >> > play
>>>> >> > there.)
>>>> >> > - 92 octane ESSO gas.
>>>> >> > - Ported on the timing advance
>>>> >> > - Stock BBD carb set to 'best lean idle' and always a fresh $20.00
>>>> >> > rebuild kit for the test.
>>>> >> > - Accel Supercoil for hot spark with Champion plugs and OEM wires.
>>>> >> > - Strong pull up to 4400 rpm, then falls flat.
>>>> >> > - 11L/100km or something like 23 US mpg highway
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx!!!!!.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And 16 ppm HC
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And 0.11% CO
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Photo of the papers here:
>>>> >> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4290636987
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And a post on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 with the JPG photo
>>>> >> > of the
>>>> >> > paperwork.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Not a fluke, I killed the computer in 2000, this 2003 one was just
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > only year they actually put the NOx reading on because I don't
>>>> >> > have to
>>>> >> > pass that.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And the best part is I have passed the last test it ever will
>>>> >> > need! It
>>>> >> > becomes too old before the next one.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Mike
>>>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>>
>
>

u know who

hi according the to gov of Ontario emissions pamphlet.
I must have a diagnostic performed by authorized fix place.
then according to there diagnostic sheet of probable causes I can do the
repairs according to only what is on the list up to the repair cost limit. I
must keep all receipts and the diagnostic list to show as proof. but only I
or the garage that did the test can work on my car to count toward the
limit.
I would get more bang for my buck if I do the work than paying them to do
it.

so couple of questions what happens when you have spent your 450 and then go
back 2 yrs later and you fail again and the list of repairs have been done
but ya still fail. oh and what happens when parts are no longer available
from any source to fix emissions components which I have all ready run into.
carbed jeeps rarely pass emissions and if they do they are so leaned out
that ya can't drive them.
next year the Howell fuel injection set up. I have already spoken to them
and there off road kit meets regular emission requirements other than cali.
plus the increase in fuel economy will make it worth it.

so cause they put the wrong engine I should get a free re test eh well I'll
try it and see.

now I'm starting to see why the guy sold this jeep.
still not deterred though just fed up with gov.

well I will be paying 170 for diagnostics that include carb and timing
adjustments, as well as emission components check.and they have the jeep for
the entire day.
that's got to be worth something there.


"Snow" <snowbal@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:9bb8e.26813$8i6.1037704@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> You might get burned on the theory of have the diagnostic tell you whats
> wrong and then do the work yourself. If you live here in the Land of
> "Dalton I'm dumber then rock M'ginty" (Ontario). You will need to show
> any and all work was preformed by an authorized repair facility in order
> to meet the cap quota. If you do $350.00 dollars of repairs on your own
> before the retest and still fail that $350.00 WON"T count towards the cap
> (about $550.00 IIRC).
>
> Also that cap is good for one time only, the first time a vehicle fails it
> has a repair cap and it will be granted a conditional pass (one time only)
> subsequent fails the vehicle is to be fixed until it passes.
>
> Two tests ago my 93 XJ fail, here is a breakdown of the repair charges by
> Cambodian Tire.
> Diagnostic $100.00
> O2 sensor $ 80.00
> Oil Change $ 15.00 (this was oil only)
> Air/Oil/Fuel filter $50.00 (filters only)
> Labour $145.00 ($60/hr)
> Total $390.00
>
> The cap was $500 as the test had been established in my area for sometime.
> The Cherokee still failed the retest after all that was done. The last
> thing the Tech. did before retesting was the oil change (cost about $20)
> main reason he did this was the next step in the T/S was to change the
> cat. $370.00 still allowed him to change the cat, $390.00 ment that repair
> would put me over the cap and he couldn't do it.
>
> I asked thenif I were to do the work (change the sensor) and return with
> it would they retest it, No problem, but if it still failed I would have
> to prove that a authorized shop fixed it otherwise I would still have that
> $500 cap, if an authorized shop fixed their charges would be deducted from
> the cap total and I would have the remaining still to spend.
>
> Snow...
>
> "u know who" <wraithyneon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:C908e.26607$8i6.969093@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
>> ya extortion test that's a good name for it.
>> it appears my egr is broken as the swivel vacuum nipple seems to be bent
>> and the housing of where the vacuum nipple sits is cracked and broken.
>>
>> I'm going to pay for the diagnostics test then take the recommendations
>> and do the work myself and keep a folder with receipts. then take it back
>> for the retest once I hit my limit. and also at that point I will have my
>> new egr and whatever else they recommend as well as my nutter bypass and
>> 3 ounces of acetone added to the fuel.
>>
>> On my e test they put that I have a 4.0L.
>> On my asm2525 test my NO ppm was 3677 timing was way to advanced limit
>> was 893. And curb idle test HC ppm was 325 limit was 200.reason idle to
>> high and mixture screws set to rich. also CO% was 1.03 missed a pass by
>> .04
>>
>> well at least I can assume that I should pass next time as the jeep was
>> so out of tune. reason for being out of tune I found a bad vacuum leak
>> and never adjusted the carb to reflect the stopped vacuum leak.
>>
>> been so long since I played with a carbed equipped veh. and the fact that
>> it is also computer controlled sucks. which basically means that some of
>> my adjustment can be over ruled by the computer.
>>
>> alwell
>>
>> keep fingers crossed for Tuesday. diagnostic day.
>> the retest down the road.
>> not so bad cause ministry issued me real plates even though it was a
>> resale change of ownership. so theoretically I don't require a test till
>> my plate renewal.
>>
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:42607229.7E0A03D7@sympatico.ca...
>>> Oh, you can usually clean the EGR's out. Carbon is an issue and for
>>> sure you need one working to pass the sniffer.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> u know who wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hmmmmm
>>>> I read the nutter instructions sounds like this will have to be
>>>> something
>>>> that I will have to do to my 89yj as it will not pass emissions
>>>> the sad part is it was recommended that I may need a evap canister
>>>> guess
>>>> what no longer available anywhere.
>>>> government sucks
>>>>
>>>> if I fail then 450$ conditional pass, then 650$ ever 2 years really
>>>> sucks
>>>> I know I still need an egr though.
>>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:42605772.F0571EA0@sympatico.ca...
>>>> > All the junk can be left in place. It only requires 2 new wires from
>>>> > the ignition module to the distributor that fit inside the loom.
>>>> >
>>>> > You then just set the carb mix and timing. That's it!
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have to put it back, it is only 2 wires to change.....
>>>> >
>>>> > Mike
>>>> >
>>>> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> >> news:42604598.8FE80D28@sympatico.ca...
>>>> >> > Well after arguing myself blue with a 'mechanic' that says no way
>>>> >> > a
>>>> >> > Jeep
>>>> >> > with a carb can pass emissions in California if you disable the
>>>> >> > emissions computer or do a 'Nutter' on it after the first guy I
>>>> >> > think
>>>> >> > to
>>>> >> > put the directions online:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The problem is, in Calif., the system has to physically be
>>>> >> installed. I
>>>> >> don't know what the bypass entails, but if stuff is removed, then
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> vehicle fails because of the visual inspection that comes before the
>>>> >> sniff
>>>> >> test.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There is considerable irony here, the bypass can conceivably result
>>>> >> in
>>>> >> better performance with the sniffer, but because the system hasn't
>>>> >> got
>>>> >> all
>>>> >> of the components, it automatically fails. The vehicle can spit out
>>>> >> better
>>>> >> numbers, but if the parts are missing, it will fail. Sad - even
>>>> >> stupid -
>>>> >> but
>>>> >> true.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jnutter1.htm
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > It gives a sweet 25% 'seat of the pants' power boost and an 'easy'
>>>> >> > 10
>>>> >> > mph extra per gear.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > The mechanic's reasoning is the NOx will blow out or the timing
>>>> >> > will
>>>> >> > have to be too far back to pass.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > The Jeep numbers for an 89 YJ 4.2 in California are 875 NOx on the
>>>> >> > ASM
>>>> >> > 2525 test I was told.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I found my 2003 ASM 2525 emissions papers for my Canadian 1986 CJ7
>>>> >> > that
>>>> >> > I
>>>> >> > disabled the computer in.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Specs.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > - 1986 Canadian CJ7 4.2L, Likely 60,000 original miles on it.
>>>> >> > - 'No' Catalytic converter (not needed in Canada)
>>>> >> > - 2" straight pipe with a high flow Dynomax turbo muffler.
>>>> >> > - No computer, 'Nuttered'
>>>> >> > - Base timing set at 9 deg BTDC with the vacuum line off like the
>>>> >> > book
>>>> >> > says for a non computer engine. (If I go with the higher RPM
>>>> >> > setting of
>>>> >> > full advance the sticker on a YJ says, I end up with 6 or 7 deg.
>>>> >> > BTDC
>>>> >> > base and I find that too boggy for power so I even have room to
>>>> >> > play
>>>> >> > there.)
>>>> >> > - 92 octane ESSO gas.
>>>> >> > - Ported on the timing advance
>>>> >> > - Stock BBD carb set to 'best lean idle' and always a fresh $20.00
>>>> >> > rebuild kit for the test.
>>>> >> > - Accel Supercoil for hot spark with Champion plugs and OEM wires.
>>>> >> > - Strong pull up to 4400 rpm, then falls flat.
>>>> >> > - 11L/100km or something like 23 US mpg highway
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx!!!!!.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And 16 ppm HC
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And 0.11% CO
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Photo of the papers here:
>>>> >> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4290636987
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And a post on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 with the JPG photo
>>>> >> > of the
>>>> >> > paperwork.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Not a fluke, I killed the computer in 2000, this 2003 one was just
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > only year they actually put the NOx reading on because I don't
>>>> >> > have to
>>>> >> > pass that.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > And the best part is I have passed the last test it ever will
>>>> >> > need! It
>>>> >> > becomes too old before the next one.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Mike
>>>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>>
>
>

Mike Romain

Crap man, where do you live?

I am in Toronto and am home most days with more than half a clue how to
set them up for our 'Canadian' emissions pass. I can't do much work,
but I can sure still point....

My CJ7 goes like a scalded cat! It lights up my 33's too easy from a
start, I pull really fast to 50 mph in 2nd gear hitting about 4400 rpm,
3rd gear pulls hard up to 75 mph, 4th will bury the speedo and I have
'no' freakin' urge to find out how fast 5th will go.....

And my readings are below.

Mike

u know who wrote:
>
> hi according the to gov of Ontario emissions pamphlet.
> I must have a diagnostic performed by authorized fix place.
> then according to there diagnostic sheet of probable causes I can do the
> repairs according to only what is on the list up to the repair cost limit. I
> must keep all receipts and the diagnostic list to show as proof. but only I
> or the garage that did the test can work on my car to count toward the
> limit.
> I would get more bang for my buck if I do the work than paying them to do
> it.
>
> so couple of questions what happens when you have spent your 450 and then go
> back 2 yrs later and you fail again and the list of repairs have been done
> but ya still fail. oh and what happens when parts are no longer available
> from any source to fix emissions components which I have all ready run into.
> carbed jeeps rarely pass emissions and if they do they are so leaned out
> that ya can't drive them.
> next year the Howell fuel injection set up. I have already spoken to them
> and there off road kit meets regular emission requirements other than cali.
> plus the increase in fuel economy will make it worth it.
>
> so cause they put the wrong engine I should get a free re test eh well I'll
> try it and see.
>
> now I'm starting to see why the guy sold this jeep.
> still not deterred though just fed up with gov.
>
> well I will be paying 170 for diagnostics that include carb and timing
> adjustments, as well as emission components check.and they have the jeep for
> the entire day.
> that's got to be worth something there.
>
> "Snow" <snowbal@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:9bb8e.26813$8i6.1037704@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> > You might get burned on the theory of have the diagnostic tell you whats
> > wrong and then do the work yourself. If you live here in the Land of
> > "Dalton I'm dumber then rock M'ginty" (Ontario). You will need to show
> > any and all work was preformed by an authorized repair facility in order
> > to meet the cap quota. If you do $350.00 dollars of repairs on your own
> > before the retest and still fail that $350.00 WON"T count towards the cap
> > (about $550.00 IIRC).
> >
> > Also that cap is good for one time only, the first time a vehicle fails it
> > has a repair cap and it will be granted a conditional pass (one time only)
> > subsequent fails the vehicle is to be fixed until it passes.
> >
> > Two tests ago my 93 XJ fail, here is a breakdown of the repair charges by
> > Cambodian Tire.
> > Diagnostic $100.00
> > O2 sensor $ 80.00
> > Oil Change $ 15.00 (this was oil only)
> > Air/Oil/Fuel filter $50.00 (filters only)
> > Labour $145.00 ($60/hr)
> > Total $390.00
> >
> > The cap was $500 as the test had been established in my area for sometime.
> > The Cherokee still failed the retest after all that was done. The last
> > thing the Tech. did before retesting was the oil change (cost about $20)
> > main reason he did this was the next step in the T/S was to change the
> > cat. $370.00 still allowed him to change the cat, $390.00 ment that repair
> > would put me over the cap and he couldn't do it.
> >
> > I asked thenif I were to do the work (change the sensor) and return with
> > it would they retest it, No problem, but if it still failed I would have
> > to prove that a authorized shop fixed it otherwise I would still have that
> > $500 cap, if an authorized shop fixed their charges would be deducted from
> > the cap total and I would have the remaining still to spend.
> >
> > Snow...
> >
> > "u know who" <wraithyneon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:C908e.26607$8i6.969093@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> >> ya extortion test that's a good name for it.
> >> it appears my egr is broken as the swivel vacuum nipple seems to be bent
> >> and the housing of where the vacuum nipple sits is cracked and broken.
> >>
> >> I'm going to pay for the diagnostics test then take the recommendations
> >> and do the work myself and keep a folder with receipts. then take it back
> >> for the retest once I hit my limit. and also at that point I will have my
> >> new egr and whatever else they recommend as well as my nutter bypass and
> >> 3 ounces of acetone added to the fuel.
> >>
> >> On my e test they put that I have a 4.0L.
> >> On my asm2525 test my NO ppm was 3677 timing was way to advanced limit
> >> was 893. And curb idle test HC ppm was 325 limit was 200.reason idle to
> >> high and mixture screws set to rich. also CO% was 1.03 missed a pass by
> >> .04
> >>
> >> well at least I can assume that I should pass next time as the jeep was
> >> so out of tune. reason for being out of tune I found a bad vacuum leak
> >> and never adjusted the carb to reflect the stopped vacuum leak.
> >>
> >> been so long since I played with a carbed equipped veh. and the fact that
> >> it is also computer controlled sucks. which basically means that some of
> >> my adjustment can be over ruled by the computer.
> >>
> >> alwell
> >>
> >> keep fingers crossed for Tuesday. diagnostic day.
> >> the retest down the road.
> >> not so bad cause ministry issued me real plates even though it was a
> >> resale change of ownership. so theoretically I don't require a test till
> >> my plate renewal.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:42607229.7E0A03D7@sympatico.ca...
> >>> Oh, you can usually clean the EGR's out. Carbon is an issue and for
> >>> sure you need one working to pass the sniffer.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> u know who wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> hmmmmm
> >>>> I read the nutter instructions sounds like this will have to be
> >>>> something
> >>>> that I will have to do to my 89yj as it will not pass emissions
> >>>> the sad part is it was recommended that I may need a evap canister
> >>>> guess
> >>>> what no longer available anywhere.
> >>>> government sucks
> >>>>
> >>>> if I fail then 450$ conditional pass, then 650$ ever 2 years really
> >>>> sucks
> >>>> I know I still need an egr though.
> >>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> news:42605772.F0571EA0@sympatico.ca...
> >>>> > All the junk can be left in place. It only requires 2 new wires from
> >>>> > the ignition module to the distributor that fit inside the loom.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > You then just set the carb mix and timing. That's it!
> >>>> >
> >>>> > If you have to put it back, it is only 2 wires to change.....
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Mike
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> >> news:42604598.8FE80D28@sympatico.ca...
> >>>> >> > Well after arguing myself blue with a 'mechanic' that says no way
> >>>> >> > a
> >>>> >> > Jeep
> >>>> >> > with a carb can pass emissions in California if you disable the
> >>>> >> > emissions computer or do a 'Nutter' on it after the first guy I
> >>>> >> > think
> >>>> >> > to
> >>>> >> > put the directions online:
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The problem is, in Calif., the system has to physically be
> >>>> >> installed. I
> >>>> >> don't know what the bypass entails, but if stuff is removed, then
> >>>> >> the
> >>>> >> vehicle fails because of the visual inspection that comes before the
> >>>> >> sniff
> >>>> >> test.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> There is considerable irony here, the bypass can conceivably result
> >>>> >> in
> >>>> >> better performance with the sniffer, but because the system hasn't
> >>>> >> got
> >>>> >> all
> >>>> >> of the components, it automatically fails. The vehicle can spit out
> >>>> >> better
> >>>> >> numbers, but if the parts are missing, it will fail. Sad - even
> >>>> >> stupid -
> >>>> >> but
> >>>> >> true.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jnutter1.htm
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > It gives a sweet 25% 'seat of the pants' power boost and an 'easy'
> >>>> >> > 10
> >>>> >> > mph extra per gear.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > The mechanic's reasoning is the NOx will blow out or the timing
> >>>> >> > will
> >>>> >> > have to be too far back to pass.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > The Jeep numbers for an 89 YJ 4.2 in California are 875 NOx on the
> >>>> >> > ASM
> >>>> >> > 2525 test I was told.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > I found my 2003 ASM 2525 emissions papers for my Canadian 1986 CJ7
> >>>> >> > that
> >>>> >> > I
> >>>> >> > disabled the computer in.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Specs.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > - 1986 Canadian CJ7 4.2L, Likely 60,000 original miles on it.
> >>>> >> > - 'No' Catalytic converter (not needed in Canada)
> >>>> >> > - 2" straight pipe with a high flow Dynomax turbo muffler.
> >>>> >> > - No computer, 'Nuttered'
> >>>> >> > - Base timing set at 9 deg BTDC with the vacuum line off like the
> >>>> >> > book
> >>>> >> > says for a non computer engine. (If I go with the higher RPM
> >>>> >> > setting of
> >>>> >> > full advance the sticker on a YJ says, I end up with 6 or 7 deg.
> >>>> >> > BTDC
> >>>> >> > base and I find that too boggy for power so I even have room to
> >>>> >> > play
> >>>> >> > there.)
> >>>> >> > - 92 octane ESSO gas.
> >>>> >> > - Ported on the timing advance
> >>>> >> > - Stock BBD carb set to 'best lean idle' and always a fresh $20.00
> >>>> >> > rebuild kit for the test.
> >>>> >> > - Accel Supercoil for hot spark with Champion plugs and OEM wires.
> >>>> >> > - Strong pull up to 4400 rpm, then falls flat.
> >>>> >> > - 11L/100km or something like 23 US mpg highway
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx!!!!!.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And 16 ppm HC
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And 0.11% CO
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Photo of the papers here:
> >>>> >> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4290636987
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And a post on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 with the JPG photo
> >>>> >> > of the
> >>>> >> > paperwork.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Not a fluke, I killed the computer in 2000, this 2003 one was just
> >>>> >> > the
> >>>> >> > only year they actually put the NOx reading on because I don't
> >>>> >> > have to
> >>>> >> > pass that.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And the best part is I have passed the last test it ever will
> >>>> >> > need! It
> >>>> >> > becomes too old before the next one.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Mike
> >>>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

Mike Romain

Crap man, where do you live?

I am in Toronto and am home most days with more than half a clue how to
set them up for our 'Canadian' emissions pass. I can't do much work,
but I can sure still point....

My CJ7 goes like a scalded cat! It lights up my 33's too easy from a
start, I pull really fast to 50 mph in 2nd gear hitting about 4400 rpm,
3rd gear pulls hard up to 75 mph, 4th will bury the speedo and I have
'no' freakin' urge to find out how fast 5th will go.....

And my readings are below.

Mike

u know who wrote:
>
> hi according the to gov of Ontario emissions pamphlet.
> I must have a diagnostic performed by authorized fix place.
> then according to there diagnostic sheet of probable causes I can do the
> repairs according to only what is on the list up to the repair cost limit. I
> must keep all receipts and the diagnostic list to show as proof. but only I
> or the garage that did the test can work on my car to count toward the
> limit.
> I would get more bang for my buck if I do the work than paying them to do
> it.
>
> so couple of questions what happens when you have spent your 450 and then go
> back 2 yrs later and you fail again and the list of repairs have been done
> but ya still fail. oh and what happens when parts are no longer available
> from any source to fix emissions components which I have all ready run into.
> carbed jeeps rarely pass emissions and if they do they are so leaned out
> that ya can't drive them.
> next year the Howell fuel injection set up. I have already spoken to them
> and there off road kit meets regular emission requirements other than cali.
> plus the increase in fuel economy will make it worth it.
>
> so cause they put the wrong engine I should get a free re test eh well I'll
> try it and see.
>
> now I'm starting to see why the guy sold this jeep.
> still not deterred though just fed up with gov.
>
> well I will be paying 170 for diagnostics that include carb and timing
> adjustments, as well as emission components check.and they have the jeep for
> the entire day.
> that's got to be worth something there.
>
> "Snow" <snowbal@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:9bb8e.26813$8i6.1037704@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> > You might get burned on the theory of have the diagnostic tell you whats
> > wrong and then do the work yourself. If you live here in the Land of
> > "Dalton I'm dumber then rock M'ginty" (Ontario). You will need to show
> > any and all work was preformed by an authorized repair facility in order
> > to meet the cap quota. If you do $350.00 dollars of repairs on your own
> > before the retest and still fail that $350.00 WON"T count towards the cap
> > (about $550.00 IIRC).
> >
> > Also that cap is good for one time only, the first time a vehicle fails it
> > has a repair cap and it will be granted a conditional pass (one time only)
> > subsequent fails the vehicle is to be fixed until it passes.
> >
> > Two tests ago my 93 XJ fail, here is a breakdown of the repair charges by
> > Cambodian Tire.
> > Diagnostic $100.00
> > O2 sensor $ 80.00
> > Oil Change $ 15.00 (this was oil only)
> > Air/Oil/Fuel filter $50.00 (filters only)
> > Labour $145.00 ($60/hr)
> > Total $390.00
> >
> > The cap was $500 as the test had been established in my area for sometime.
> > The Cherokee still failed the retest after all that was done. The last
> > thing the Tech. did before retesting was the oil change (cost about $20)
> > main reason he did this was the next step in the T/S was to change the
> > cat. $370.00 still allowed him to change the cat, $390.00 ment that repair
> > would put me over the cap and he couldn't do it.
> >
> > I asked thenif I were to do the work (change the sensor) and return with
> > it would they retest it, No problem, but if it still failed I would have
> > to prove that a authorized shop fixed it otherwise I would still have that
> > $500 cap, if an authorized shop fixed their charges would be deducted from
> > the cap total and I would have the remaining still to spend.
> >
> > Snow...
> >
> > "u know who" <wraithyneon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:C908e.26607$8i6.969093@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> >> ya extortion test that's a good name for it.
> >> it appears my egr is broken as the swivel vacuum nipple seems to be bent
> >> and the housing of where the vacuum nipple sits is cracked and broken.
> >>
> >> I'm going to pay for the diagnostics test then take the recommendations
> >> and do the work myself and keep a folder with receipts. then take it back
> >> for the retest once I hit my limit. and also at that point I will have my
> >> new egr and whatever else they recommend as well as my nutter bypass and
> >> 3 ounces of acetone added to the fuel.
> >>
> >> On my e test they put that I have a 4.0L.
> >> On my asm2525 test my NO ppm was 3677 timing was way to advanced limit
> >> was 893. And curb idle test HC ppm was 325 limit was 200.reason idle to
> >> high and mixture screws set to rich. also CO% was 1.03 missed a pass by
> >> .04
> >>
> >> well at least I can assume that I should pass next time as the jeep was
> >> so out of tune. reason for being out of tune I found a bad vacuum leak
> >> and never adjusted the carb to reflect the stopped vacuum leak.
> >>
> >> been so long since I played with a carbed equipped veh. and the fact that
> >> it is also computer controlled sucks. which basically means that some of
> >> my adjustment can be over ruled by the computer.
> >>
> >> alwell
> >>
> >> keep fingers crossed for Tuesday. diagnostic day.
> >> the retest down the road.
> >> not so bad cause ministry issued me real plates even though it was a
> >> resale change of ownership. so theoretically I don't require a test till
> >> my plate renewal.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:42607229.7E0A03D7@sympatico.ca...
> >>> Oh, you can usually clean the EGR's out. Carbon is an issue and for
> >>> sure you need one working to pass the sniffer.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> u know who wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> hmmmmm
> >>>> I read the nutter instructions sounds like this will have to be
> >>>> something
> >>>> that I will have to do to my 89yj as it will not pass emissions
> >>>> the sad part is it was recommended that I may need a evap canister
> >>>> guess
> >>>> what no longer available anywhere.
> >>>> government sucks
> >>>>
> >>>> if I fail then 450$ conditional pass, then 650$ ever 2 years really
> >>>> sucks
> >>>> I know I still need an egr though.
> >>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> news:42605772.F0571EA0@sympatico.ca...
> >>>> > All the junk can be left in place. It only requires 2 new wires from
> >>>> > the ignition module to the distributor that fit inside the loom.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > You then just set the carb mix and timing. That's it!
> >>>> >
> >>>> > If you have to put it back, it is only 2 wires to change.....
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Mike
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> >> news:42604598.8FE80D28@sympatico.ca...
> >>>> >> > Well after arguing myself blue with a 'mechanic' that says no way
> >>>> >> > a
> >>>> >> > Jeep
> >>>> >> > with a carb can pass emissions in California if you disable the
> >>>> >> > emissions computer or do a 'Nutter' on it after the first guy I
> >>>> >> > think
> >>>> >> > to
> >>>> >> > put the directions online:
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The problem is, in Calif., the system has to physically be
> >>>> >> installed. I
> >>>> >> don't know what the bypass entails, but if stuff is removed, then
> >>>> >> the
> >>>> >> vehicle fails because of the visual inspection that comes before the
> >>>> >> sniff
> >>>> >> test.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> There is considerable irony here, the bypass can conceivably result
> >>>> >> in
> >>>> >> better performance with the sniffer, but because the system hasn't
> >>>> >> got
> >>>> >> all
> >>>> >> of the components, it automatically fails. The vehicle can spit out
> >>>> >> better
> >>>> >> numbers, but if the parts are missing, it will fail. Sad - even
> >>>> >> stupid -
> >>>> >> but
> >>>> >> true.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jnutter1.htm
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > It gives a sweet 25% 'seat of the pants' power boost and an 'easy'
> >>>> >> > 10
> >>>> >> > mph extra per gear.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > The mechanic's reasoning is the NOx will blow out or the timing
> >>>> >> > will
> >>>> >> > have to be too far back to pass.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > The Jeep numbers for an 89 YJ 4.2 in California are 875 NOx on the
> >>>> >> > ASM
> >>>> >> > 2525 test I was told.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > I found my 2003 ASM 2525 emissions papers for my Canadian 1986 CJ7
> >>>> >> > that
> >>>> >> > I
> >>>> >> > disabled the computer in.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Specs.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > - 1986 Canadian CJ7 4.2L, Likely 60,000 original miles on it.
> >>>> >> > - 'No' Catalytic converter (not needed in Canada)
> >>>> >> > - 2" straight pipe with a high flow Dynomax turbo muffler.
> >>>> >> > - No computer, 'Nuttered'
> >>>> >> > - Base timing set at 9 deg BTDC with the vacuum line off like the
> >>>> >> > book
> >>>> >> > says for a non computer engine. (If I go with the higher RPM
> >>>> >> > setting of
> >>>> >> > full advance the sticker on a YJ says, I end up with 6 or 7 deg.
> >>>> >> > BTDC
> >>>> >> > base and I find that too boggy for power so I even have room to
> >>>> >> > play
> >>>> >> > there.)
> >>>> >> > - 92 octane ESSO gas.
> >>>> >> > - Ported on the timing advance
> >>>> >> > - Stock BBD carb set to 'best lean idle' and always a fresh $20.00
> >>>> >> > rebuild kit for the test.
> >>>> >> > - Accel Supercoil for hot spark with Champion plugs and OEM wires.
> >>>> >> > - Strong pull up to 4400 rpm, then falls flat.
> >>>> >> > - 11L/100km or something like 23 US mpg highway
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx!!!!!.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And 16 ppm HC
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And 0.11% CO
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Photo of the papers here:
> >>>> >> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4290636987
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And a post on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 with the JPG photo
> >>>> >> > of the
> >>>> >> > paperwork.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Not a fluke, I killed the computer in 2000, this 2003 one was just
> >>>> >> > the
> >>>> >> > only year they actually put the NOx reading on because I don't
> >>>> >> > have to
> >>>> >> > pass that.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And the best part is I have passed the last test it ever will
> >>>> >> > need! It
> >>>> >> > becomes too old before the next one.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Mike
> >>>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

Mike Romain

Crap man, where do you live?

I am in Toronto and am home most days with more than half a clue how to
set them up for our 'Canadian' emissions pass. I can't do much work,
but I can sure still point....

My CJ7 goes like a scalded cat! It lights up my 33's too easy from a
start, I pull really fast to 50 mph in 2nd gear hitting about 4400 rpm,
3rd gear pulls hard up to 75 mph, 4th will bury the speedo and I have
'no' freakin' urge to find out how fast 5th will go.....

And my readings are below.

Mike

u know who wrote:
>
> hi according the to gov of Ontario emissions pamphlet.
> I must have a diagnostic performed by authorized fix place.
> then according to there diagnostic sheet of probable causes I can do the
> repairs according to only what is on the list up to the repair cost limit. I
> must keep all receipts and the diagnostic list to show as proof. but only I
> or the garage that did the test can work on my car to count toward the
> limit.
> I would get more bang for my buck if I do the work than paying them to do
> it.
>
> so couple of questions what happens when you have spent your 450 and then go
> back 2 yrs later and you fail again and the list of repairs have been done
> but ya still fail. oh and what happens when parts are no longer available
> from any source to fix emissions components which I have all ready run into.
> carbed jeeps rarely pass emissions and if they do they are so leaned out
> that ya can't drive them.
> next year the Howell fuel injection set up. I have already spoken to them
> and there off road kit meets regular emission requirements other than cali.
> plus the increase in fuel economy will make it worth it.
>
> so cause they put the wrong engine I should get a free re test eh well I'll
> try it and see.
>
> now I'm starting to see why the guy sold this jeep.
> still not deterred though just fed up with gov.
>
> well I will be paying 170 for diagnostics that include carb and timing
> adjustments, as well as emission components check.and they have the jeep for
> the entire day.
> that's got to be worth something there.
>
> "Snow" <snowbal@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:9bb8e.26813$8i6.1037704@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> > You might get burned on the theory of have the diagnostic tell you whats
> > wrong and then do the work yourself. If you live here in the Land of
> > "Dalton I'm dumber then rock M'ginty" (Ontario). You will need to show
> > any and all work was preformed by an authorized repair facility in order
> > to meet the cap quota. If you do $350.00 dollars of repairs on your own
> > before the retest and still fail that $350.00 WON"T count towards the cap
> > (about $550.00 IIRC).
> >
> > Also that cap is good for one time only, the first time a vehicle fails it
> > has a repair cap and it will be granted a conditional pass (one time only)
> > subsequent fails the vehicle is to be fixed until it passes.
> >
> > Two tests ago my 93 XJ fail, here is a breakdown of the repair charges by
> > Cambodian Tire.
> > Diagnostic $100.00
> > O2 sensor $ 80.00
> > Oil Change $ 15.00 (this was oil only)
> > Air/Oil/Fuel filter $50.00 (filters only)
> > Labour $145.00 ($60/hr)
> > Total $390.00
> >
> > The cap was $500 as the test had been established in my area for sometime.
> > The Cherokee still failed the retest after all that was done. The last
> > thing the Tech. did before retesting was the oil change (cost about $20)
> > main reason he did this was the next step in the T/S was to change the
> > cat. $370.00 still allowed him to change the cat, $390.00 ment that repair
> > would put me over the cap and he couldn't do it.
> >
> > I asked thenif I were to do the work (change the sensor) and return with
> > it would they retest it, No problem, but if it still failed I would have
> > to prove that a authorized shop fixed it otherwise I would still have that
> > $500 cap, if an authorized shop fixed their charges would be deducted from
> > the cap total and I would have the remaining still to spend.
> >
> > Snow...
> >
> > "u know who" <wraithyneon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:C908e.26607$8i6.969093@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> >> ya extortion test that's a good name for it.
> >> it appears my egr is broken as the swivel vacuum nipple seems to be bent
> >> and the housing of where the vacuum nipple sits is cracked and broken.
> >>
> >> I'm going to pay for the diagnostics test then take the recommendations
> >> and do the work myself and keep a folder with receipts. then take it back
> >> for the retest once I hit my limit. and also at that point I will have my
> >> new egr and whatever else they recommend as well as my nutter bypass and
> >> 3 ounces of acetone added to the fuel.
> >>
> >> On my e test they put that I have a 4.0L.
> >> On my asm2525 test my NO ppm was 3677 timing was way to advanced limit
> >> was 893. And curb idle test HC ppm was 325 limit was 200.reason idle to
> >> high and mixture screws set to rich. also CO% was 1.03 missed a pass by
> >> .04
> >>
> >> well at least I can assume that I should pass next time as the jeep was
> >> so out of tune. reason for being out of tune I found a bad vacuum leak
> >> and never adjusted the carb to reflect the stopped vacuum leak.
> >>
> >> been so long since I played with a carbed equipped veh. and the fact that
> >> it is also computer controlled sucks. which basically means that some of
> >> my adjustment can be over ruled by the computer.
> >>
> >> alwell
> >>
> >> keep fingers crossed for Tuesday. diagnostic day.
> >> the retest down the road.
> >> not so bad cause ministry issued me real plates even though it was a
> >> resale change of ownership. so theoretically I don't require a test till
> >> my plate renewal.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:42607229.7E0A03D7@sympatico.ca...
> >>> Oh, you can usually clean the EGR's out. Carbon is an issue and for
> >>> sure you need one working to pass the sniffer.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> u know who wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> hmmmmm
> >>>> I read the nutter instructions sounds like this will have to be
> >>>> something
> >>>> that I will have to do to my 89yj as it will not pass emissions
> >>>> the sad part is it was recommended that I may need a evap canister
> >>>> guess
> >>>> what no longer available anywhere.
> >>>> government sucks
> >>>>
> >>>> if I fail then 450$ conditional pass, then 650$ ever 2 years really
> >>>> sucks
> >>>> I know I still need an egr though.
> >>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> news:42605772.F0571EA0@sympatico.ca...
> >>>> > All the junk can be left in place. It only requires 2 new wires from
> >>>> > the ignition module to the distributor that fit inside the loom.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > You then just set the carb mix and timing. That's it!
> >>>> >
> >>>> > If you have to put it back, it is only 2 wires to change.....
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Mike
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> >> news:42604598.8FE80D28@sympatico.ca...
> >>>> >> > Well after arguing myself blue with a 'mechanic' that says no way
> >>>> >> > a
> >>>> >> > Jeep
> >>>> >> > with a carb can pass emissions in California if you disable the
> >>>> >> > emissions computer or do a 'Nutter' on it after the first guy I
> >>>> >> > think
> >>>> >> > to
> >>>> >> > put the directions online:
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The problem is, in Calif., the system has to physically be
> >>>> >> installed. I
> >>>> >> don't know what the bypass entails, but if stuff is removed, then
> >>>> >> the
> >>>> >> vehicle fails because of the visual inspection that comes before the
> >>>> >> sniff
> >>>> >> test.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> There is considerable irony here, the bypass can conceivably result
> >>>> >> in
> >>>> >> better performance with the sniffer, but because the system hasn't
> >>>> >> got
> >>>> >> all
> >>>> >> of the components, it automatically fails. The vehicle can spit out
> >>>> >> better
> >>>> >> numbers, but if the parts are missing, it will fail. Sad - even
> >>>> >> stupid -
> >>>> >> but
> >>>> >> true.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jnutter1.htm
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > It gives a sweet 25% 'seat of the pants' power boost and an 'easy'
> >>>> >> > 10
> >>>> >> > mph extra per gear.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > The mechanic's reasoning is the NOx will blow out or the timing
> >>>> >> > will
> >>>> >> > have to be too far back to pass.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > The Jeep numbers for an 89 YJ 4.2 in California are 875 NOx on the
> >>>> >> > ASM
> >>>> >> > 2525 test I was told.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > I found my 2003 ASM 2525 emissions papers for my Canadian 1986 CJ7
> >>>> >> > that
> >>>> >> > I
> >>>> >> > disabled the computer in.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Specs.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > - 1986 Canadian CJ7 4.2L, Likely 60,000 original miles on it.
> >>>> >> > - 'No' Catalytic converter (not needed in Canada)
> >>>> >> > - 2" straight pipe with a high flow Dynomax turbo muffler.
> >>>> >> > - No computer, 'Nuttered'
> >>>> >> > - Base timing set at 9 deg BTDC with the vacuum line off like the
> >>>> >> > book
> >>>> >> > says for a non computer engine. (If I go with the higher RPM
> >>>> >> > setting of
> >>>> >> > full advance the sticker on a YJ says, I end up with 6 or 7 deg.
> >>>> >> > BTDC
> >>>> >> > base and I find that too boggy for power so I even have room to
> >>>> >> > play
> >>>> >> > there.)
> >>>> >> > - 92 octane ESSO gas.
> >>>> >> > - Ported on the timing advance
> >>>> >> > - Stock BBD carb set to 'best lean idle' and always a fresh $20.00
> >>>> >> > rebuild kit for the test.
> >>>> >> > - Accel Supercoil for hot spark with Champion plugs and OEM wires.
> >>>> >> > - Strong pull up to 4400 rpm, then falls flat.
> >>>> >> > - 11L/100km or something like 23 US mpg highway
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx!!!!!.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And 16 ppm HC
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And 0.11% CO
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Photo of the papers here:
> >>>> >> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4290636987
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And a post on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 with the JPG photo
> >>>> >> > of the
> >>>> >> > paperwork.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Not a fluke, I killed the computer in 2000, this 2003 one was just
> >>>> >> > the
> >>>> >> > only year they actually put the NOx reading on because I don't
> >>>> >> > have to
> >>>> >> > pass that.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And the best part is I have passed the last test it ever will
> >>>> >> > need! It
> >>>> >> > becomes too old before the next one.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Mike
> >>>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

Mike Romain

Crap man, where do you live?

I am in Toronto and am home most days with more than half a clue how to
set them up for our 'Canadian' emissions pass. I can't do much work,
but I can sure still point....

My CJ7 goes like a scalded cat! It lights up my 33's too easy from a
start, I pull really fast to 50 mph in 2nd gear hitting about 4400 rpm,
3rd gear pulls hard up to 75 mph, 4th will bury the speedo and I have
'no' freakin' urge to find out how fast 5th will go.....

And my readings are below.

Mike

u know who wrote:
>
> hi according the to gov of Ontario emissions pamphlet.
> I must have a diagnostic performed by authorized fix place.
> then according to there diagnostic sheet of probable causes I can do the
> repairs according to only what is on the list up to the repair cost limit. I
> must keep all receipts and the diagnostic list to show as proof. but only I
> or the garage that did the test can work on my car to count toward the
> limit.
> I would get more bang for my buck if I do the work than paying them to do
> it.
>
> so couple of questions what happens when you have spent your 450 and then go
> back 2 yrs later and you fail again and the list of repairs have been done
> but ya still fail. oh and what happens when parts are no longer available
> from any source to fix emissions components which I have all ready run into.
> carbed jeeps rarely pass emissions and if they do they are so leaned out
> that ya can't drive them.
> next year the Howell fuel injection set up. I have already spoken to them
> and there off road kit meets regular emission requirements other than cali.
> plus the increase in fuel economy will make it worth it.
>
> so cause they put the wrong engine I should get a free re test eh well I'll
> try it and see.
>
> now I'm starting to see why the guy sold this jeep.
> still not deterred though just fed up with gov.
>
> well I will be paying 170 for diagnostics that include carb and timing
> adjustments, as well as emission components check.and they have the jeep for
> the entire day.
> that's got to be worth something there.
>
> "Snow" <snowbal@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:9bb8e.26813$8i6.1037704@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> > You might get burned on the theory of have the diagnostic tell you whats
> > wrong and then do the work yourself. If you live here in the Land of
> > "Dalton I'm dumber then rock M'ginty" (Ontario). You will need to show
> > any and all work was preformed by an authorized repair facility in order
> > to meet the cap quota. If you do $350.00 dollars of repairs on your own
> > before the retest and still fail that $350.00 WON"T count towards the cap
> > (about $550.00 IIRC).
> >
> > Also that cap is good for one time only, the first time a vehicle fails it
> > has a repair cap and it will be granted a conditional pass (one time only)
> > subsequent fails the vehicle is to be fixed until it passes.
> >
> > Two tests ago my 93 XJ fail, here is a breakdown of the repair charges by
> > Cambodian Tire.
> > Diagnostic $100.00
> > O2 sensor $ 80.00
> > Oil Change $ 15.00 (this was oil only)
> > Air/Oil/Fuel filter $50.00 (filters only)
> > Labour $145.00 ($60/hr)
> > Total $390.00
> >
> > The cap was $500 as the test had been established in my area for sometime.
> > The Cherokee still failed the retest after all that was done. The last
> > thing the Tech. did before retesting was the oil change (cost about $20)
> > main reason he did this was the next step in the T/S was to change the
> > cat. $370.00 still allowed him to change the cat, $390.00 ment that repair
> > would put me over the cap and he couldn't do it.
> >
> > I asked thenif I were to do the work (change the sensor) and return with
> > it would they retest it, No problem, but if it still failed I would have
> > to prove that a authorized shop fixed it otherwise I would still have that
> > $500 cap, if an authorized shop fixed their charges would be deducted from
> > the cap total and I would have the remaining still to spend.
> >
> > Snow...
> >
> > "u know who" <wraithyneon@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:C908e.26607$8i6.969093@news20.bellglobal.com. ..
> >> ya extortion test that's a good name for it.
> >> it appears my egr is broken as the swivel vacuum nipple seems to be bent
> >> and the housing of where the vacuum nipple sits is cracked and broken.
> >>
> >> I'm going to pay for the diagnostics test then take the recommendations
> >> and do the work myself and keep a folder with receipts. then take it back
> >> for the retest once I hit my limit. and also at that point I will have my
> >> new egr and whatever else they recommend as well as my nutter bypass and
> >> 3 ounces of acetone added to the fuel.
> >>
> >> On my e test they put that I have a 4.0L.
> >> On my asm2525 test my NO ppm was 3677 timing was way to advanced limit
> >> was 893. And curb idle test HC ppm was 325 limit was 200.reason idle to
> >> high and mixture screws set to rich. also CO% was 1.03 missed a pass by
> >> .04
> >>
> >> well at least I can assume that I should pass next time as the jeep was
> >> so out of tune. reason for being out of tune I found a bad vacuum leak
> >> and never adjusted the carb to reflect the stopped vacuum leak.
> >>
> >> been so long since I played with a carbed equipped veh. and the fact that
> >> it is also computer controlled sucks. which basically means that some of
> >> my adjustment can be over ruled by the computer.
> >>
> >> alwell
> >>
> >> keep fingers crossed for Tuesday. diagnostic day.
> >> the retest down the road.
> >> not so bad cause ministry issued me real plates even though it was a
> >> resale change of ownership. so theoretically I don't require a test till
> >> my plate renewal.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:42607229.7E0A03D7@sympatico.ca...
> >>> Oh, you can usually clean the EGR's out. Carbon is an issue and for
> >>> sure you need one working to pass the sniffer.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> u know who wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> hmmmmm
> >>>> I read the nutter instructions sounds like this will have to be
> >>>> something
> >>>> that I will have to do to my 89yj as it will not pass emissions
> >>>> the sad part is it was recommended that I may need a evap canister
> >>>> guess
> >>>> what no longer available anywhere.
> >>>> government sucks
> >>>>
> >>>> if I fail then 450$ conditional pass, then 650$ ever 2 years really
> >>>> sucks
> >>>> I know I still need an egr though.
> >>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> news:42605772.F0571EA0@sympatico.ca...
> >>>> > All the junk can be left in place. It only requires 2 new wires from
> >>>> > the ignition module to the distributor that fit inside the loom.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > You then just set the carb mix and timing. That's it!
> >>>> >
> >>>> > If you have to put it back, it is only 2 wires to change.....
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Mike
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> >> news:42604598.8FE80D28@sympatico.ca...
> >>>> >> > Well after arguing myself blue with a 'mechanic' that says no way
> >>>> >> > a
> >>>> >> > Jeep
> >>>> >> > with a carb can pass emissions in California if you disable the
> >>>> >> > emissions computer or do a 'Nutter' on it after the first guy I
> >>>> >> > think
> >>>> >> > to
> >>>> >> > put the directions online:
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The problem is, in Calif., the system has to physically be
> >>>> >> installed. I
> >>>> >> don't know what the bypass entails, but if stuff is removed, then
> >>>> >> the
> >>>> >> vehicle fails because of the visual inspection that comes before the
> >>>> >> sniff
> >>>> >> test.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> There is considerable irony here, the bypass can conceivably result
> >>>> >> in
> >>>> >> better performance with the sniffer, but because the system hasn't
> >>>> >> got
> >>>> >> all
> >>>> >> of the components, it automatically fails. The vehicle can spit out
> >>>> >> better
> >>>> >> numbers, but if the parts are missing, it will fail. Sad - even
> >>>> >> stupid -
> >>>> >> but
> >>>> >> true.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jnutter1.htm
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > It gives a sweet 25% 'seat of the pants' power boost and an 'easy'
> >>>> >> > 10
> >>>> >> > mph extra per gear.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > The mechanic's reasoning is the NOx will blow out or the timing
> >>>> >> > will
> >>>> >> > have to be too far back to pass.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > The Jeep numbers for an 89 YJ 4.2 in California are 875 NOx on the
> >>>> >> > ASM
> >>>> >> > 2525 test I was told.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > I found my 2003 ASM 2525 emissions papers for my Canadian 1986 CJ7
> >>>> >> > that
> >>>> >> > I
> >>>> >> > disabled the computer in.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Specs.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > - 1986 Canadian CJ7 4.2L, Likely 60,000 original miles on it.
> >>>> >> > - 'No' Catalytic converter (not needed in Canada)
> >>>> >> > - 2" straight pipe with a high flow Dynomax turbo muffler.
> >>>> >> > - No computer, 'Nuttered'
> >>>> >> > - Base timing set at 9 deg BTDC with the vacuum line off like the
> >>>> >> > book
> >>>> >> > says for a non computer engine. (If I go with the higher RPM
> >>>> >> > setting of
> >>>> >> > full advance the sticker on a YJ says, I end up with 6 or 7 deg.
> >>>> >> > BTDC
> >>>> >> > base and I find that too boggy for power so I even have room to
> >>>> >> > play
> >>>> >> > there.)
> >>>> >> > - 92 octane ESSO gas.
> >>>> >> > - Ported on the timing advance
> >>>> >> > - Stock BBD carb set to 'best lean idle' and always a fresh $20.00
> >>>> >> > rebuild kit for the test.
> >>>> >> > - Accel Supercoil for hot spark with Champion plugs and OEM wires.
> >>>> >> > - Strong pull up to 4400 rpm, then falls flat.
> >>>> >> > - 11L/100km or something like 23 US mpg highway
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx!!!!!.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And 16 ppm HC
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And 0.11% CO
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Photo of the papers here:
> >>>> >> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4290636987
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And a post on alt.binaries.pictures.autos.4x4 with the JPG photo
> >>>> >> > of the
> >>>> >> > paperwork.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Not a fluke, I killed the computer in 2000, this 2003 one was just
> >>>> >> > the
> >>>> >> > only year they actually put the NOx reading on because I don't
> >>>> >> > have to
> >>>> >> > pass that.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > And the best part is I have passed the last test it ever will
> >>>> >> > need! It
> >>>> >> > becomes too old before the next one.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> > Mike
> >>>> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>>> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

Snow

> so couple of questions what happens when you have spent your 450 and then
> go back 2 yrs later and you fail again and the list of repairs have been
> done but ya still fail. oh and what happens when parts are no longer
> available from any source to fix emissions components which I have all
> ready run into.
> carbed jeeps rarely pass emissions and if they do they are so leaned out
> that ya can't drive them.

If it fails two years later it all has to be fixed again. If it managed a
conditional pass the previous year it HAS to pass and has no cap (just like
it does when you purchase a used vehicle). You might get more bang for your
buck doing the work yourself (going by the dianostic, and keeping the
receipts) but your time will be worth ZERO of the cap. sometimes labour
costs can be the savior on the cap.

As for non available parts, well if you change out the engine for either an
engine that never exsisted in that vehicle (i.e. put a 305 into your jeep)
or you install an engine no longer produced for that vehicle and no longer
produced by the car maker (i.e. putting a 283 into a 1993 gmc truck) you
will be tested as a hotrod.

Snow...