134a Refrigerant
#3001
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
LOL
"BillyRay" <jpbSPAM357@junoSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:d9141$42d49d57$4831337f$28192@FUSE.NET...
> Bill you are wrong on this one.
>
> Bleeding hearts serve their country by NOT serving. What kind of shape
> would our military be in if we waffled in the wind or kept repeating
> "That is NOT a 155 the enemy is about to fire, that is NOT a 155 the enemy
> is about to fire" or refused to fire their weapon while being over-run on
> the grounds on the effect of cordite on the atmosphere.
>
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D4996C.547DCE01@***.net...
>> Yes I've used a sexton and an atomic clock radio to find my
>> position, it was apart of my ARMY surveyors training:
>> http://www.----------.com/trigmarker.jpg It was my job to give an
>> azimuth, and distance to target coordinance longitude and latitude.
>> reminds me, as a bleeding heart liberal, you've never done anything in
>> the service to our country, have you?
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:--------------------
>>
>> Stephen Cowell wrote:
>>>
>>> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>>> news:42D33D1D.B2DF58B2@***.net...
>>> > Stevie, I can't believe you can asked the same stupid question over,
>>> > and
>>> > over again! You must have bought your diploma from a school like
>>> > Berkeley we saw on television the other day. OK, once again the answer
>>> > is: everyone knows except apparently you the winds blow away from the
>>> > equator to the west, west, north in our northern hemisphere and just
>>> > the
>>> > opposite on the other side of the equator, to the east, east, south.
>>> > This proves all bleeding heart liberals are liars, for overlooking
>>> > that
>>> > fact, in their attempt to blame American's chlorofluorocarbons for the
>>> > ozone holes in the southern hemisphere. Physically impossible!
>>>
>>> So if I go stand on the Equator, then magically the air from
>>> the North side will only blow North, and the air from the
>>> South side will only blow South? What about the vacuum
>>> in between? And what keeps the air one foot north from
>>> mixing with the air one foot south? And what about mid-
>>> Spring or Fall, and the Sun is at vertex at one of the
>>> Tropics? Have you ever seen the Analemma, Bill?
>>> It means that the Sun is not always directly overhead
>>> at the Equator... it goes back and forth. This creates
>>> high and low pressure zones on different sides of the
>>> Equator... and we know what that means!
>>>
>>> What if I breathe air one foot north, then walk over
>>> and breathe it out one foot south? Will an Atmospheric
>>> Policeman stop me?
>>> __
>>> Steve
>>> .
>
>
"BillyRay" <jpbSPAM357@junoSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:d9141$42d49d57$4831337f$28192@FUSE.NET...
> Bill you are wrong on this one.
>
> Bleeding hearts serve their country by NOT serving. What kind of shape
> would our military be in if we waffled in the wind or kept repeating
> "That is NOT a 155 the enemy is about to fire, that is NOT a 155 the enemy
> is about to fire" or refused to fire their weapon while being over-run on
> the grounds on the effect of cordite on the atmosphere.
>
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D4996C.547DCE01@***.net...
>> Yes I've used a sexton and an atomic clock radio to find my
>> position, it was apart of my ARMY surveyors training:
>> http://www.----------.com/trigmarker.jpg It was my job to give an
>> azimuth, and distance to target coordinance longitude and latitude.
>> reminds me, as a bleeding heart liberal, you've never done anything in
>> the service to our country, have you?
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:--------------------
>>
>> Stephen Cowell wrote:
>>>
>>> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
>>> news:42D33D1D.B2DF58B2@***.net...
>>> > Stevie, I can't believe you can asked the same stupid question over,
>>> > and
>>> > over again! You must have bought your diploma from a school like
>>> > Berkeley we saw on television the other day. OK, once again the answer
>>> > is: everyone knows except apparently you the winds blow away from the
>>> > equator to the west, west, north in our northern hemisphere and just
>>> > the
>>> > opposite on the other side of the equator, to the east, east, south.
>>> > This proves all bleeding heart liberals are liars, for overlooking
>>> > that
>>> > fact, in their attempt to blame American's chlorofluorocarbons for the
>>> > ozone holes in the southern hemisphere. Physically impossible!
>>>
>>> So if I go stand on the Equator, then magically the air from
>>> the North side will only blow North, and the air from the
>>> South side will only blow South? What about the vacuum
>>> in between? And what keeps the air one foot north from
>>> mixing with the air one foot south? And what about mid-
>>> Spring or Fall, and the Sun is at vertex at one of the
>>> Tropics? Have you ever seen the Analemma, Bill?
>>> It means that the Sun is not always directly overhead
>>> at the Equator... it goes back and forth. This creates
>>> high and low pressure zones on different sides of the
>>> Equator... and we know what that means!
>>>
>>> What if I breathe air one foot north, then walk over
>>> and breathe it out one foot south? Will an Atmospheric
>>> Policeman stop me?
>>> __
>>> Steve
>>> .
>
>
#3002
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
--
jeff
BillyRay wrote:
> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
> incorrect in your disagreement.
>
> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where this
> question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science Education
> Department for a 8 year old..
> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>
>>BillyRay wrote:
>>
>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>
>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>
>>>>Miscibility.
>>
>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you shake
>>it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>single phase solution.
>>
>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes of
>>the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally added
>>to the mixture.
>>
>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>of liquid.
>>
>>3) partial miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>the liquids originally added.
>>
>>--
>>jeff
>
>
>
the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
--
jeff
BillyRay wrote:
> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
> incorrect in your disagreement.
>
> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where this
> question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science Education
> Department for a 8 year old..
> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>
>>BillyRay wrote:
>>
>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>
>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>
>>>>Miscibility.
>>
>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you shake
>>it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>single phase solution.
>>
>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes of
>>the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally added
>>to the mixture.
>>
>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>of liquid.
>>
>>3) partial miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>the liquids originally added.
>>
>>--
>>jeff
>
>
>
#3003
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
--
jeff
BillyRay wrote:
> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
> incorrect in your disagreement.
>
> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where this
> question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science Education
> Department for a 8 year old..
> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>
>>BillyRay wrote:
>>
>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>
>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>
>>>>Miscibility.
>>
>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you shake
>>it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>single phase solution.
>>
>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes of
>>the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally added
>>to the mixture.
>>
>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>of liquid.
>>
>>3) partial miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>the liquids originally added.
>>
>>--
>>jeff
>
>
>
the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
--
jeff
BillyRay wrote:
> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
> incorrect in your disagreement.
>
> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where this
> question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science Education
> Department for a 8 year old..
> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>
>>BillyRay wrote:
>>
>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>
>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>
>>>>Miscibility.
>>
>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you shake
>>it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>single phase solution.
>>
>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes of
>>the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally added
>>to the mixture.
>>
>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>of liquid.
>>
>>3) partial miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>the liquids originally added.
>>
>>--
>>jeff
>
>
>
#3004
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
--
jeff
BillyRay wrote:
> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
> incorrect in your disagreement.
>
> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where this
> question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science Education
> Department for a 8 year old..
> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>
>>BillyRay wrote:
>>
>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>
>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>
>>>>Miscibility.
>>
>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you shake
>>it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>single phase solution.
>>
>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes of
>>the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally added
>>to the mixture.
>>
>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>of liquid.
>>
>>3) partial miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>the liquids originally added.
>>
>>--
>>jeff
>
>
>
the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
--
jeff
BillyRay wrote:
> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
> incorrect in your disagreement.
>
> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where this
> question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science Education
> Department for a 8 year old..
> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>
>>BillyRay wrote:
>>
>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>
>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>
>>>>Miscibility.
>>
>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you shake
>>it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>single phase solution.
>>
>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes of
>>the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally added
>>to the mixture.
>>
>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>of liquid.
>>
>>3) partial miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>the liquids originally added.
>>
>>--
>>jeff
>
>
>
#3005
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
--
jeff
BillyRay wrote:
> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
> incorrect in your disagreement.
>
> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where this
> question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science Education
> Department for a 8 year old..
> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>
>>BillyRay wrote:
>>
>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>
>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>
>>>>Miscibility.
>>
>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you shake
>>it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>single phase solution.
>>
>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes of
>>the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally added
>>to the mixture.
>>
>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>of liquid.
>>
>>3) partial miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>the liquids originally added.
>>
>>--
>>jeff
>
>
>
the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
--
jeff
BillyRay wrote:
> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
> incorrect in your disagreement.
>
> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where this
> question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science Education
> Department for a 8 year old..
> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>
>>BillyRay wrote:
>>
>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>
>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>
>>>>Miscibility.
>>
>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you shake
>>it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>single phase solution.
>>
>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes of
>>the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally added
>>to the mixture.
>>
>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>of liquid.
>>
>>3) partial miscibility.
>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>the liquids originally added.
>>
>>--
>>jeff
>
>
>
#3006
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Okay, if you want a more technically correct answer continue reading. Let me
know if you want to go into the mathematics.
There are many examples of liquids that have a negative volume of mixing.
The reasons are not always evident, and are frequently restatements of "It
happens because it happens." rather than providing a fundamental explanation
that can be independently tested experimentally.
In the case of ethanol and water, the "reason" is that liquid water has a
rather "open" structure due to hydrogen bonding. The same is not so true of
ethanol. So when the two are mixed, the ethanol interferes with this "open"
structure of water and causes it to "collapse", and hence reduce the volume
relative to the sum of the volumes of the components.
A related property of water is the minimum in the molar volume at about 4C
(at sea level).
If a water soluble solid has an "open" structure that can be made more
compact by dissolving, one would expect a similar result.
It is difficult to predict if and when it will happen because it could also
depend upon the temperature and the pressure at which the components are
mixed. ...
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:7Z7Be.50980$ZN6.47321@trnddc02...
> Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
> the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
> Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
> you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
> Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
> --
> jeff
>
>
> BillyRay wrote:
>> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
>> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
>> incorrect in your disagreement.
>>
>> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where
>> this question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science
>> Education Department for a 8 year old..
>> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>>
>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>
>>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>>
>>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>>
>>>>>Miscibility.
>>>
>>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you
>>>shake it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>>single phase solution.
>>>
>>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes
>>>of the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally
>>>added to the mixture.
>>>
>>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>>of liquid.
>>>
>>>3) partial miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>>the liquids originally added.
>>>
>>>--
>>>jeff
>>
>>
know if you want to go into the mathematics.
There are many examples of liquids that have a negative volume of mixing.
The reasons are not always evident, and are frequently restatements of "It
happens because it happens." rather than providing a fundamental explanation
that can be independently tested experimentally.
In the case of ethanol and water, the "reason" is that liquid water has a
rather "open" structure due to hydrogen bonding. The same is not so true of
ethanol. So when the two are mixed, the ethanol interferes with this "open"
structure of water and causes it to "collapse", and hence reduce the volume
relative to the sum of the volumes of the components.
A related property of water is the minimum in the molar volume at about 4C
(at sea level).
If a water soluble solid has an "open" structure that can be made more
compact by dissolving, one would expect a similar result.
It is difficult to predict if and when it will happen because it could also
depend upon the temperature and the pressure at which the components are
mixed. ...
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:7Z7Be.50980$ZN6.47321@trnddc02...
> Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
> the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
> Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
> you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
> Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
> --
> jeff
>
>
> BillyRay wrote:
>> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
>> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
>> incorrect in your disagreement.
>>
>> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where
>> this question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science
>> Education Department for a 8 year old..
>> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>>
>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>
>>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>>
>>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>>
>>>>>Miscibility.
>>>
>>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you
>>>shake it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>>single phase solution.
>>>
>>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes
>>>of the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally
>>>added to the mixture.
>>>
>>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>>of liquid.
>>>
>>>3) partial miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>>the liquids originally added.
>>>
>>>--
>>>jeff
>>
>>
#3007
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Okay, if you want a more technically correct answer continue reading. Let me
know if you want to go into the mathematics.
There are many examples of liquids that have a negative volume of mixing.
The reasons are not always evident, and are frequently restatements of "It
happens because it happens." rather than providing a fundamental explanation
that can be independently tested experimentally.
In the case of ethanol and water, the "reason" is that liquid water has a
rather "open" structure due to hydrogen bonding. The same is not so true of
ethanol. So when the two are mixed, the ethanol interferes with this "open"
structure of water and causes it to "collapse", and hence reduce the volume
relative to the sum of the volumes of the components.
A related property of water is the minimum in the molar volume at about 4C
(at sea level).
If a water soluble solid has an "open" structure that can be made more
compact by dissolving, one would expect a similar result.
It is difficult to predict if and when it will happen because it could also
depend upon the temperature and the pressure at which the components are
mixed. ...
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:7Z7Be.50980$ZN6.47321@trnddc02...
> Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
> the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
> Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
> you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
> Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
> --
> jeff
>
>
> BillyRay wrote:
>> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
>> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
>> incorrect in your disagreement.
>>
>> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where
>> this question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science
>> Education Department for a 8 year old..
>> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>>
>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>
>>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>>
>>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>>
>>>>>Miscibility.
>>>
>>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you
>>>shake it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>>single phase solution.
>>>
>>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes
>>>of the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally
>>>added to the mixture.
>>>
>>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>>of liquid.
>>>
>>>3) partial miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>>the liquids originally added.
>>>
>>>--
>>>jeff
>>
>>
know if you want to go into the mathematics.
There are many examples of liquids that have a negative volume of mixing.
The reasons are not always evident, and are frequently restatements of "It
happens because it happens." rather than providing a fundamental explanation
that can be independently tested experimentally.
In the case of ethanol and water, the "reason" is that liquid water has a
rather "open" structure due to hydrogen bonding. The same is not so true of
ethanol. So when the two are mixed, the ethanol interferes with this "open"
structure of water and causes it to "collapse", and hence reduce the volume
relative to the sum of the volumes of the components.
A related property of water is the minimum in the molar volume at about 4C
(at sea level).
If a water soluble solid has an "open" structure that can be made more
compact by dissolving, one would expect a similar result.
It is difficult to predict if and when it will happen because it could also
depend upon the temperature and the pressure at which the components are
mixed. ...
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:7Z7Be.50980$ZN6.47321@trnddc02...
> Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
> the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
> Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
> you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
> Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
> --
> jeff
>
>
> BillyRay wrote:
>> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
>> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
>> incorrect in your disagreement.
>>
>> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where
>> this question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science
>> Education Department for a 8 year old..
>> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>>
>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>
>>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>>
>>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>>
>>>>>Miscibility.
>>>
>>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you
>>>shake it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>>single phase solution.
>>>
>>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes
>>>of the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally
>>>added to the mixture.
>>>
>>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>>of liquid.
>>>
>>>3) partial miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>>the liquids originally added.
>>>
>>>--
>>>jeff
>>
>>
#3008
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Okay, if you want a more technically correct answer continue reading. Let me
know if you want to go into the mathematics.
There are many examples of liquids that have a negative volume of mixing.
The reasons are not always evident, and are frequently restatements of "It
happens because it happens." rather than providing a fundamental explanation
that can be independently tested experimentally.
In the case of ethanol and water, the "reason" is that liquid water has a
rather "open" structure due to hydrogen bonding. The same is not so true of
ethanol. So when the two are mixed, the ethanol interferes with this "open"
structure of water and causes it to "collapse", and hence reduce the volume
relative to the sum of the volumes of the components.
A related property of water is the minimum in the molar volume at about 4C
(at sea level).
If a water soluble solid has an "open" structure that can be made more
compact by dissolving, one would expect a similar result.
It is difficult to predict if and when it will happen because it could also
depend upon the temperature and the pressure at which the components are
mixed. ...
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:7Z7Be.50980$ZN6.47321@trnddc02...
> Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
> the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
> Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
> you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
> Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
> --
> jeff
>
>
> BillyRay wrote:
>> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
>> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
>> incorrect in your disagreement.
>>
>> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where
>> this question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science
>> Education Department for a 8 year old..
>> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>>
>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>
>>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>>
>>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>>
>>>>>Miscibility.
>>>
>>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you
>>>shake it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>>single phase solution.
>>>
>>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes
>>>of the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally
>>>added to the mixture.
>>>
>>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>>of liquid.
>>>
>>>3) partial miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>>the liquids originally added.
>>>
>>>--
>>>jeff
>>
>>
know if you want to go into the mathematics.
There are many examples of liquids that have a negative volume of mixing.
The reasons are not always evident, and are frequently restatements of "It
happens because it happens." rather than providing a fundamental explanation
that can be independently tested experimentally.
In the case of ethanol and water, the "reason" is that liquid water has a
rather "open" structure due to hydrogen bonding. The same is not so true of
ethanol. So when the two are mixed, the ethanol interferes with this "open"
structure of water and causes it to "collapse", and hence reduce the volume
relative to the sum of the volumes of the components.
A related property of water is the minimum in the molar volume at about 4C
(at sea level).
If a water soluble solid has an "open" structure that can be made more
compact by dissolving, one would expect a similar result.
It is difficult to predict if and when it will happen because it could also
depend upon the temperature and the pressure at which the components are
mixed. ...
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:7Z7Be.50980$ZN6.47321@trnddc02...
> Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
> the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
> Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
> you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
> Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
> --
> jeff
>
>
> BillyRay wrote:
>> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
>> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
>> incorrect in your disagreement.
>>
>> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where
>> this question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science
>> Education Department for a 8 year old..
>> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>>
>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>
>>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>>
>>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>>
>>>>>Miscibility.
>>>
>>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you
>>>shake it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>>single phase solution.
>>>
>>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes
>>>of the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally
>>>added to the mixture.
>>>
>>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>>of liquid.
>>>
>>>3) partial miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>>the liquids originally added.
>>>
>>>--
>>>jeff
>>
>>
#3009
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Okay, if you want a more technically correct answer continue reading. Let me
know if you want to go into the mathematics.
There are many examples of liquids that have a negative volume of mixing.
The reasons are not always evident, and are frequently restatements of "It
happens because it happens." rather than providing a fundamental explanation
that can be independently tested experimentally.
In the case of ethanol and water, the "reason" is that liquid water has a
rather "open" structure due to hydrogen bonding. The same is not so true of
ethanol. So when the two are mixed, the ethanol interferes with this "open"
structure of water and causes it to "collapse", and hence reduce the volume
relative to the sum of the volumes of the components.
A related property of water is the minimum in the molar volume at about 4C
(at sea level).
If a water soluble solid has an "open" structure that can be made more
compact by dissolving, one would expect a similar result.
It is difficult to predict if and when it will happen because it could also
depend upon the temperature and the pressure at which the components are
mixed. ...
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:7Z7Be.50980$ZN6.47321@trnddc02...
> Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
> the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
> Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
> you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
> Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
> --
> jeff
>
>
> BillyRay wrote:
>> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
>> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
>> incorrect in your disagreement.
>>
>> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where
>> this question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science
>> Education Department for a 8 year old..
>> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>>
>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>
>>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>>
>>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>>
>>>>>Miscibility.
>>>
>>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you
>>>shake it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>>single phase solution.
>>>
>>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes
>>>of the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally
>>>added to the mixture.
>>>
>>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>>of liquid.
>>>
>>>3) partial miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>>the liquids originally added.
>>>
>>>--
>>>jeff
>>
>>
know if you want to go into the mathematics.
There are many examples of liquids that have a negative volume of mixing.
The reasons are not always evident, and are frequently restatements of "It
happens because it happens." rather than providing a fundamental explanation
that can be independently tested experimentally.
In the case of ethanol and water, the "reason" is that liquid water has a
rather "open" structure due to hydrogen bonding. The same is not so true of
ethanol. So when the two are mixed, the ethanol interferes with this "open"
structure of water and causes it to "collapse", and hence reduce the volume
relative to the sum of the volumes of the components.
A related property of water is the minimum in the molar volume at about 4C
(at sea level).
If a water soluble solid has an "open" structure that can be made more
compact by dissolving, one would expect a similar result.
It is difficult to predict if and when it will happen because it could also
depend upon the temperature and the pressure at which the components are
mixed. ...
"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:7Z7Be.50980$ZN6.47321@trnddc02...
> Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In
> the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".
> Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since
> you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London
> Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
> --
> jeff
>
>
> BillyRay wrote:
>> Jeff, This is America and you certainly have the right to disagree. You
>> also have the right to be wrong which is good in this case as you are
>> incorrect in your disagreement.
>>
>> I will refer you to this page from the Argonne National Labrotory where
>> this question is answered by the Science, Math, and Computer Science
>> Education Department for a 8 year old..
>> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03197.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>> news:1QVAe.17423$Zy6.1897@trnddc04...
>>
>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>
>>>>Close but no. Miscibility only is a reference to the solutions ability
>>>>to mix. The answer is the alcohol molecules are smaller than water
>>>>molecules and some will "fit" in between the water molecules
>>>>
>>>>"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
>>>>news:%nOAe.7548$8N5.311@trnddc09...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BillyRay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>How come when you mix a cup of alcohol and a cup of water you get LESS
>>>>>>than 2 cups of the mixed materials?
>>>>>
>>>>>Miscibility.
>>>
>>>I disagree. Molecule size has nothing to do with it. Consider that there
>>>is a large difference in molecule size between oil and water molecules so
>>>they should fit comfortably between each other, but because they are
>>>immiscible the mixed volume stays the same and no mater how hard you
>>>shake it, there are still two separate phases. Read the following three
>>>definitions. The key to complete miscibility is the ability to form a
>>>single phase solution.
>>>
>>>1) immiscible. immiscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "immiscible" or unmixable if shaking equal
>>>volumes of the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two
>>>layers of liquid. If the liquids are completely immiscible, the volumes
>>>of the liquid layers are the same as the volumes of liquids orginally
>>>added to the mixture.
>>>
>>>2) miscible. miscibility; liquid miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered "miscible" or mixable if shaking them together
>>>results in a single liquid phase, with no meniscus visible between layers
>>>of liquid.
>>>
>>>3) partial miscibility.
>>>Two liquids are considered partially miscible if shaking equal volumes of
>>>the liquids together results in a meniscus visible between two layers of
>>>liquid, but the volumes of the layers are not identical to the volumes of
>>>the liquids originally added.
>>>
>>>--
>>>jeff
>>
>>
#3010
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
jeff wrote:
> (SNIP) and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
HEY NOW!! This is family channel!!
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
> (SNIP) and induced dipole-dipole attraction.
>
HEY NOW!! This is family channel!!
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________