I don't underestimate foreign brands, I just choose not to buy them, not out
of Bill's not getting over the war, but just because I prefer to support
American companies. Out of every car I or my wife has ever owned or leased,
only two were foreign brands (Toyota and Honda, both the wife's)

Her mid-90's Toyota Avalon was OK, but it was too small for me, and the OEM
tires had chunks out of them (Pirellis, I think) after 20,000 miles. Her
Honda Odessey from a couple years ago came right off the lot with a severe
oil leak, a quart every hundred miles or so, and a puddle every time we
parked it. The dealer couldn't fix it in four tries, their attitude was
Hondas never have defects like this...so Honda ended up buying it back under
Michigan's lemon law.

I never said Kia made bad vehicles. I just said have fun in yours. I'll have
fun in my Jeeps and Fords, and when you need to be pulled out of a small
mudhole I might even help you out, because I'm that nice a guy.

"Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2GaAg.37183$rp4.30776@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Thanks Matty, first for the geography lesson and then the Kia crack. Kia
> BTW is making pretty damn good vehicles. You just go right ahead and
> underestimate them, like you did Toyota. Just keep buying jeeps, Dr Z
> loves ya :)
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:N6Wdnc5TbJBch0zZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Have fun with your Kia Sportage, troll.
>>
>> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:cY4Ag.41868$Cn6.11870@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>A good step back in the right direction. This might get me interested in
>>>Jeep again. Appearance is OK and the initial utility on the thing looks
>>>great.
>>>
>>> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other options.
>>>
>>> And the Jeep website still looks/works like someone who just got their
>>> first computer did it.
>>>
>>> A good first step but a lot of ground to make up if they want to sell
>>> many vehicles.....
>>>
>>> Maybe it's the water in MI that inhibits innovation and creativity. Will
>>> the last person out of Detroit please remember to turn the lights off?
>>>
>>> Last time I looked Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai were not slowing
>>> down any.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

I don't underestimate foreign brands, I just choose not to buy them, not out
of Bill's not getting over the war, but just because I prefer to support
American companies. Out of every car I or my wife has ever owned or leased,
only two were foreign brands (Toyota and Honda, both the wife's)

Her mid-90's Toyota Avalon was OK, but it was too small for me, and the OEM
tires had chunks out of them (Pirellis, I think) after 20,000 miles. Her
Honda Odessey from a couple years ago came right off the lot with a severe
oil leak, a quart every hundred miles or so, and a puddle every time we
parked it. The dealer couldn't fix it in four tries, their attitude was
Hondas never have defects like this...so Honda ended up buying it back under
Michigan's lemon law.

I never said Kia made bad vehicles. I just said have fun in yours. I'll have
fun in my Jeeps and Fords, and when you need to be pulled out of a small
mudhole I might even help you out, because I'm that nice a guy.

"Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2GaAg.37183$rp4.30776@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Thanks Matty, first for the geography lesson and then the Kia crack. Kia
> BTW is making pretty damn good vehicles. You just go right ahead and
> underestimate them, like you did Toyota. Just keep buying jeeps, Dr Z
> loves ya :)
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:N6Wdnc5TbJBch0zZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Have fun with your Kia Sportage, troll.
>>
>> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:cY4Ag.41868$Cn6.11870@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>A good step back in the right direction. This might get me interested in
>>>Jeep again. Appearance is OK and the initial utility on the thing looks
>>>great.
>>>
>>> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other options.
>>>
>>> And the Jeep website still looks/works like someone who just got their
>>> first computer did it.
>>>
>>> A good first step but a lot of ground to make up if they want to sell
>>> many vehicles.....
>>>
>>> Maybe it's the water in MI that inhibits innovation and creativity. Will
>>> the last person out of Detroit please remember to turn the lights off?
>>>
>>> Last time I looked Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai were not slowing
>>> down any.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

I don't underestimate foreign brands, I just choose not to buy them, not out
of Bill's not getting over the war, but just because I prefer to support
American companies. Out of every car I or my wife has ever owned or leased,
only two were foreign brands (Toyota and Honda, both the wife's)

Her mid-90's Toyota Avalon was OK, but it was too small for me, and the OEM
tires had chunks out of them (Pirellis, I think) after 20,000 miles. Her
Honda Odessey from a couple years ago came right off the lot with a severe
oil leak, a quart every hundred miles or so, and a puddle every time we
parked it. The dealer couldn't fix it in four tries, their attitude was
Hondas never have defects like this...so Honda ended up buying it back under
Michigan's lemon law.

I never said Kia made bad vehicles. I just said have fun in yours. I'll have
fun in my Jeeps and Fords, and when you need to be pulled out of a small
mudhole I might even help you out, because I'm that nice a guy.

"Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2GaAg.37183$rp4.30776@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Thanks Matty, first for the geography lesson and then the Kia crack. Kia
> BTW is making pretty damn good vehicles. You just go right ahead and
> underestimate them, like you did Toyota. Just keep buying jeeps, Dr Z
> loves ya :)
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:N6Wdnc5TbJBch0zZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Have fun with your Kia Sportage, troll.
>>
>> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:cY4Ag.41868$Cn6.11870@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>A good step back in the right direction. This might get me interested in
>>>Jeep again. Appearance is OK and the initial utility on the thing looks
>>>great.
>>>
>>> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other options.
>>>
>>> And the Jeep website still looks/works like someone who just got their
>>> first computer did it.
>>>
>>> A good first step but a lot of ground to make up if they want to sell
>>> many vehicles.....
>>>
>>> Maybe it's the water in MI that inhibits innovation and creativity. Will
>>> the last person out of Detroit please remember to turn the lights off?
>>>
>>> Last time I looked Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai were not slowing
>>> down any.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

Brian Foster wrote:

> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other options.


How many Jeep competitors offer a 6-speed? Hummer, maybe? Dr. Z's German
tranny seems to work rather nicely with it -- much better than whatever
they were using in my old Wrangler "X". The new shift pattern does take
some getting used to, though. If you go too far and hit "R" instead of
"6", you get this interesting grinding sound. Did that maybe three times
until my aim improved :-)

I can see many improvements in just 2-3 years. Now for 2007, I'm not so
sure. It's all in what you're looking for, I guess.


Mike
'06 TJ Sport


--
(for email address, change 'XX' to 'bb')

 

Brian Foster wrote:

> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other options.


How many Jeep competitors offer a 6-speed? Hummer, maybe? Dr. Z's German
tranny seems to work rather nicely with it -- much better than whatever
they were using in my old Wrangler "X". The new shift pattern does take
some getting used to, though. If you go too far and hit "R" instead of
"6", you get this interesting grinding sound. Did that maybe three times
until my aim improved :-)

I can see many improvements in just 2-3 years. Now for 2007, I'm not so
sure. It's all in what you're looking for, I guess.


Mike
'06 TJ Sport


--
(for email address, change 'XX' to 'bb')

 

Brian Foster wrote:

> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other options.


How many Jeep competitors offer a 6-speed? Hummer, maybe? Dr. Z's German
tranny seems to work rather nicely with it -- much better than whatever
they were using in my old Wrangler "X". The new shift pattern does take
some getting used to, though. If you go too far and hit "R" instead of
"6", you get this interesting grinding sound. Did that maybe three times
until my aim improved :-)

I can see many improvements in just 2-3 years. Now for 2007, I'm not so
sure. It's all in what you're looking for, I guess.


Mike
'06 TJ Sport


--
(for email address, change 'XX' to 'bb')

 

Brian Foster wrote:

> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other options.


How many Jeep competitors offer a 6-speed? Hummer, maybe? Dr. Z's German
tranny seems to work rather nicely with it -- much better than whatever
they were using in my old Wrangler "X". The new shift pattern does take
some getting used to, though. If you go too far and hit "R" instead of
"6", you get this interesting grinding sound. Did that maybe three times
until my aim improved :-)

I can see many improvements in just 2-3 years. Now for 2007, I'm not so
sure. It's all in what you're looking for, I guess.


Mike
'06 TJ Sport


--
(for email address, change 'XX' to 'bb')

 

Hey folks, I prefer to buy American and even local whenever possible too.
And for every story about poor quality, workmanship, service that you can
give me about a foreign make/model would you believe I would not have to
look far/long to come up with two involving a domestic make/model. I just
got a class action suit mailing last week involving brakes on my old Grand
Cherokee. They sucked and enough people got tired of it and DC's ambivalence
to it, so they decided to take legal actions. That seems to be the only
thing that gets Detroit's (I use Detroit to characterize all US automakers)
attention.

I just got back from a trip to Detroit area. I've been in the Food and
Beverage business for a long time and I've had Detroit in my territory (on
and off) for many years. The economy is still in the crapper and the number
of people leaving the area continues to grow. The auto industry is the major
employer and they are in BIG trouble and dragging the entire area down with
them. It's all well documented over the last decade or so. My concern is
that they just don't seem to get it. They keep putting out products that are
old technology and lack innovation. And there is no excuse for it other than
the culture of the industry that I can see.

I like to buy American as much as anyone. I also need to be realistic when
it comes to putting $20-$40K or more into something I buy or lease. That
still represents a lot of dough to me so I feel it is my responsibility to
buy the best product I can for the money. I get mad at Detroit when they
choose (and that's what it is, a choice) not to be competitive with other
world wide auto makers.

What is the market looking for right now? SUVs? High Mileage? or even better
Alternative fueled vehicles? So why do we keep getting the same old tired
things from Detroit. The Wrangler Unlimited caught my eye because it looked
different. Upon further review, there are some differences (and they are
good) but there are way to many of the old ways in there.

Out of the box thinking try this one: Who has the money? Oil Companies
right. Who is hemorrhaging money and looking at a very bleak future? Detroit
right.

Both industries need each other and both have significant headquarters in
the US. So why are we not seeing a joint venture between GM and Exxon/Mobil
instead of GM and Renault?

Lets get US automakers and US oil companies to work together for the quantum
leap to the next vehicles and fuels for them. That is your next space race
and cold war right there boys and girls.

I'll go now, I've ranted enough. That damn class action suit letter pissed
me off. Then I look at the new Jeep and I just get pissed again.





"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:SNqdnR0_FsLk1EzZnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>I don't underestimate foreign brands, I just choose not to buy them, not
>out of Bill's not getting over the war, but just because I prefer to
>support American companies. Out of every car I or my wife has ever owned or
>leased, only two were foreign brands (Toyota and Honda, both the wife's)
>
> Her mid-90's Toyota Avalon was OK, but it was too small for me, and the
> OEM tires had chunks out of them (Pirellis, I think) after 20,000 miles.
> Her Honda Odessey from a couple years ago came right off the lot with a
> severe oil leak, a quart every hundred miles or so, and a puddle every
> time we parked it. The dealer couldn't fix it in four tries, their
> attitude was Hondas never have defects like this...so Honda ended up
> buying it back under Michigan's lemon law.
>
> I never said Kia made bad vehicles. I just said have fun in yours. I'll
> have fun in my Jeeps and Fords, and when you need to be pulled out of a
> small mudhole I might even help you out, because I'm that nice a guy.
>
> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:2GaAg.37183$rp4.30776@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> Thanks Matty, first for the geography lesson and then the Kia crack. Kia
>> BTW is making pretty damn good vehicles. You just go right ahead and
>> underestimate them, like you did Toyota. Just keep buying jeeps, Dr Z
>> loves ya :)
>>
>>
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:N6Wdnc5TbJBch0zZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> Have fun with your Kia Sportage, troll.
>>>
>>> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cY4Ag.41868$Cn6.11870@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>>A good step back in the right direction. This might get me interested in
>>>>Jeep again. Appearance is OK and the initial utility on the thing looks
>>>>great.
>>>>
>>>> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other
>>>> options.
>>>>
>>>> And the Jeep website still looks/works like someone who just got their
>>>> first computer did it.
>>>>
>>>> A good first step but a lot of ground to make up if they want to sell
>>>> many vehicles.....
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's the water in MI that inhibits innovation and creativity.
>>>> Will the last person out of Detroit please remember to turn the lights
>>>> off?
>>>>
>>>> Last time I looked Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai were not slowing
>>>> down any.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

Hey folks, I prefer to buy American and even local whenever possible too.
And for every story about poor quality, workmanship, service that you can
give me about a foreign make/model would you believe I would not have to
look far/long to come up with two involving a domestic make/model. I just
got a class action suit mailing last week involving brakes on my old Grand
Cherokee. They sucked and enough people got tired of it and DC's ambivalence
to it, so they decided to take legal actions. That seems to be the only
thing that gets Detroit's (I use Detroit to characterize all US automakers)
attention.

I just got back from a trip to Detroit area. I've been in the Food and
Beverage business for a long time and I've had Detroit in my territory (on
and off) for many years. The economy is still in the crapper and the number
of people leaving the area continues to grow. The auto industry is the major
employer and they are in BIG trouble and dragging the entire area down with
them. It's all well documented over the last decade or so. My concern is
that they just don't seem to get it. They keep putting out products that are
old technology and lack innovation. And there is no excuse for it other than
the culture of the industry that I can see.

I like to buy American as much as anyone. I also need to be realistic when
it comes to putting $20-$40K or more into something I buy or lease. That
still represents a lot of dough to me so I feel it is my responsibility to
buy the best product I can for the money. I get mad at Detroit when they
choose (and that's what it is, a choice) not to be competitive with other
world wide auto makers.

What is the market looking for right now? SUVs? High Mileage? or even better
Alternative fueled vehicles? So why do we keep getting the same old tired
things from Detroit. The Wrangler Unlimited caught my eye because it looked
different. Upon further review, there are some differences (and they are
good) but there are way to many of the old ways in there.

Out of the box thinking try this one: Who has the money? Oil Companies
right. Who is hemorrhaging money and looking at a very bleak future? Detroit
right.

Both industries need each other and both have significant headquarters in
the US. So why are we not seeing a joint venture between GM and Exxon/Mobil
instead of GM and Renault?

Lets get US automakers and US oil companies to work together for the quantum
leap to the next vehicles and fuels for them. That is your next space race
and cold war right there boys and girls.

I'll go now, I've ranted enough. That damn class action suit letter pissed
me off. Then I look at the new Jeep and I just get pissed again.





"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:SNqdnR0_FsLk1EzZnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>I don't underestimate foreign brands, I just choose not to buy them, not
>out of Bill's not getting over the war, but just because I prefer to
>support American companies. Out of every car I or my wife has ever owned or
>leased, only two were foreign brands (Toyota and Honda, both the wife's)
>
> Her mid-90's Toyota Avalon was OK, but it was too small for me, and the
> OEM tires had chunks out of them (Pirellis, I think) after 20,000 miles.
> Her Honda Odessey from a couple years ago came right off the lot with a
> severe oil leak, a quart every hundred miles or so, and a puddle every
> time we parked it. The dealer couldn't fix it in four tries, their
> attitude was Hondas never have defects like this...so Honda ended up
> buying it back under Michigan's lemon law.
>
> I never said Kia made bad vehicles. I just said have fun in yours. I'll
> have fun in my Jeeps and Fords, and when you need to be pulled out of a
> small mudhole I might even help you out, because I'm that nice a guy.
>
> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:2GaAg.37183$rp4.30776@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> Thanks Matty, first for the geography lesson and then the Kia crack. Kia
>> BTW is making pretty damn good vehicles. You just go right ahead and
>> underestimate them, like you did Toyota. Just keep buying jeeps, Dr Z
>> loves ya :)
>>
>>
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:N6Wdnc5TbJBch0zZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> Have fun with your Kia Sportage, troll.
>>>
>>> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cY4Ag.41868$Cn6.11870@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>>A good step back in the right direction. This might get me interested in
>>>>Jeep again. Appearance is OK and the initial utility on the thing looks
>>>>great.
>>>>
>>>> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other
>>>> options.
>>>>
>>>> And the Jeep website still looks/works like someone who just got their
>>>> first computer did it.
>>>>
>>>> A good first step but a lot of ground to make up if they want to sell
>>>> many vehicles.....
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's the water in MI that inhibits innovation and creativity.
>>>> Will the last person out of Detroit please remember to turn the lights
>>>> off?
>>>>
>>>> Last time I looked Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai were not slowing
>>>> down any.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

Hey folks, I prefer to buy American and even local whenever possible too.
And for every story about poor quality, workmanship, service that you can
give me about a foreign make/model would you believe I would not have to
look far/long to come up with two involving a domestic make/model. I just
got a class action suit mailing last week involving brakes on my old Grand
Cherokee. They sucked and enough people got tired of it and DC's ambivalence
to it, so they decided to take legal actions. That seems to be the only
thing that gets Detroit's (I use Detroit to characterize all US automakers)
attention.

I just got back from a trip to Detroit area. I've been in the Food and
Beverage business for a long time and I've had Detroit in my territory (on
and off) for many years. The economy is still in the crapper and the number
of people leaving the area continues to grow. The auto industry is the major
employer and they are in BIG trouble and dragging the entire area down with
them. It's all well documented over the last decade or so. My concern is
that they just don't seem to get it. They keep putting out products that are
old technology and lack innovation. And there is no excuse for it other than
the culture of the industry that I can see.

I like to buy American as much as anyone. I also need to be realistic when
it comes to putting $20-$40K or more into something I buy or lease. That
still represents a lot of dough to me so I feel it is my responsibility to
buy the best product I can for the money. I get mad at Detroit when they
choose (and that's what it is, a choice) not to be competitive with other
world wide auto makers.

What is the market looking for right now? SUVs? High Mileage? or even better
Alternative fueled vehicles? So why do we keep getting the same old tired
things from Detroit. The Wrangler Unlimited caught my eye because it looked
different. Upon further review, there are some differences (and they are
good) but there are way to many of the old ways in there.

Out of the box thinking try this one: Who has the money? Oil Companies
right. Who is hemorrhaging money and looking at a very bleak future? Detroit
right.

Both industries need each other and both have significant headquarters in
the US. So why are we not seeing a joint venture between GM and Exxon/Mobil
instead of GM and Renault?

Lets get US automakers and US oil companies to work together for the quantum
leap to the next vehicles and fuels for them. That is your next space race
and cold war right there boys and girls.

I'll go now, I've ranted enough. That damn class action suit letter pissed
me off. Then I look at the new Jeep and I just get pissed again.





"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:SNqdnR0_FsLk1EzZnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>I don't underestimate foreign brands, I just choose not to buy them, not
>out of Bill's not getting over the war, but just because I prefer to
>support American companies. Out of every car I or my wife has ever owned or
>leased, only two were foreign brands (Toyota and Honda, both the wife's)
>
> Her mid-90's Toyota Avalon was OK, but it was too small for me, and the
> OEM tires had chunks out of them (Pirellis, I think) after 20,000 miles.
> Her Honda Odessey from a couple years ago came right off the lot with a
> severe oil leak, a quart every hundred miles or so, and a puddle every
> time we parked it. The dealer couldn't fix it in four tries, their
> attitude was Hondas never have defects like this...so Honda ended up
> buying it back under Michigan's lemon law.
>
> I never said Kia made bad vehicles. I just said have fun in yours. I'll
> have fun in my Jeeps and Fords, and when you need to be pulled out of a
> small mudhole I might even help you out, because I'm that nice a guy.
>
> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:2GaAg.37183$rp4.30776@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> Thanks Matty, first for the geography lesson and then the Kia crack. Kia
>> BTW is making pretty damn good vehicles. You just go right ahead and
>> underestimate them, like you did Toyota. Just keep buying jeeps, Dr Z
>> loves ya :)
>>
>>
>> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> news:N6Wdnc5TbJBch0zZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> Have fun with your Kia Sportage, troll.
>>>
>>> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cY4Ag.41868$Cn6.11870@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>>A good step back in the right direction. This might get me interested in
>>>>Jeep again. Appearance is OK and the initial utility on the thing looks
>>>>great.
>>>>
>>>> Same old tired jeep performance (+/- 200hp) yawn, with no other
>>>> options.
>>>>
>>>> And the Jeep website still looks/works like someone who just got their
>>>> first computer did it.
>>>>
>>>> A good first step but a lot of ground to make up if they want to sell
>>>> many vehicles.....
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's the water in MI that inhibits innovation and creativity.
>>>> Will the last person out of Detroit please remember to turn the lights
>>>> off?
>>>>
>>>> Last time I looked Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai were not slowing
>>>> down any.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>