june 6 canal bank run
05-28-2009, 07:51 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St Catharines
Posts: 347
Re: june 6 canal bank run
Any horse riders we have ever run into, we stay away from or stay slow as hell around them until they are out of the area. The last thing anyone with a brain is going to do it spook a 1200-2000lb animal that has a rider on its back.
05-28-2009, 08:59 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: port colborne
Posts: 240
Re: june 6 canal bank run
this was coppied from jeep kings ( info is off as this is seaway property)
Hi guys...I have been trying to do some research since the mention of the washouts being a non-legal trail came up last week.
I must say that I would rather have proof to it's legality or non-legality than to go out there based on people saying it is good to go.
I tried to email the OTC and was returned undeliverable, tried to email Niagara Region and again was returned undeliverable, emailled OF4WD and the president (I think it was Pete) said he wasn't sure but thought it was a NO GO AREA, made a bunch of phone calls today and have been told it is a definite NO GO AREA!
I spoke with Drew Semple of Niagara Region's Integrated Community Planning Department. I must say that it was a very pleasant conversation with great explanations on his part and great understanding on my part. He is supposed to email me more info later today.
I made it very clear what trail I was referring to (even referencing the OTC website link - http://www.ontariotrails.on.ca/trail...Dside%2Dtrail/ ) and he mentioned that there are 2 trails in the area, one is intended for horse and rider only and the other is intended for dirtbikes only. He said ATVs are not permitted on any of the trails in the Niagara area. The only place where these would be permitted is on private land or crown land - and he said there was absolutely no crown land in the Niagara Region.
He did say if we wanted to go hiking or mountain biking, etc. those uses would also be permitted, but did not advise that we should due to all the ATV traffic in the area. He also said that many horse people have stopped using it because of the same reason.
I asked him to define dirtbikes and it basically came to 2 wheeled off road motorcycles only. I asked him to define ATVs, he said anything with more than 2 wheels. I asked if regular road based (fully licenced and insured) vehicles such as 4 wheel drive SUVs/Jeep/trucks would be included in the above descriptions to which his response was if it doesn't have two wheels it is not permitted.
He mentioned that the region had spent over $10,000 on signs showing the permitted and prohibited uses for the area and within a few months almost all of the signs had been torn down.
He said it is extremely difficult for the region and it's municipal law enforcement to "police" the area, but if and when they do catch people improperly using the area they could be in for fines in the neighbourhood of $5,000 each.
Again, this was a great conversation and he was very informative. He was in no way accusatory towards anybody. He seemed annoyed by the fact that people do not adhere to the "rules" regarding this area and said he had some run-ins in the past with ATV riders who were less than pleasant when he was out hiking and made mention of the fact that the area was not open to them.
On the topic of why dirtbikes could use the area, he mantioned that they were permitted many years ago after they were given a 2 year probationary period and studied as to the damaged caused/repairs required/etc. and the study showed it could work. He also mentioned that a local ATV club had recently been formed and joined one of the planning committes to possibly be included in the discussuions around the use of the area and any possible future considerations in regards to ATVs in future planning and development.
He did say that it would be nice if the region found an area somewhere that they could open to ATVs, that it would not only help the ATV users to have a place, but it would possibly prevent them from using areas they shouldn't.
If you wish to be forwarded the info from Drew after he sends it to me, then shoot me a PM with your email address...
As of now, I will be out for the Welland Washouts Run, unless somebody can come up with better proof showing that it is an open area...but I think this sums it up...hate to be the bearer of bad news...
Anybody want to run Mud and 20? I wouldn't mind going out again, but not sure about Bowslaugh Rd...would rather head somewhere else in the area that my stocker LJ on 30s could handle (either with or without bypasses).
Jeff.
Hi guys...I have been trying to do some research since the mention of the washouts being a non-legal trail came up last week.
I must say that I would rather have proof to it's legality or non-legality than to go out there based on people saying it is good to go.
I tried to email the OTC and was returned undeliverable, tried to email Niagara Region and again was returned undeliverable, emailled OF4WD and the president (I think it was Pete) said he wasn't sure but thought it was a NO GO AREA, made a bunch of phone calls today and have been told it is a definite NO GO AREA!
I spoke with Drew Semple of Niagara Region's Integrated Community Planning Department. I must say that it was a very pleasant conversation with great explanations on his part and great understanding on my part. He is supposed to email me more info later today.
I made it very clear what trail I was referring to (even referencing the OTC website link - http://www.ontariotrails.on.ca/trail...Dside%2Dtrail/ ) and he mentioned that there are 2 trails in the area, one is intended for horse and rider only and the other is intended for dirtbikes only. He said ATVs are not permitted on any of the trails in the Niagara area. The only place where these would be permitted is on private land or crown land - and he said there was absolutely no crown land in the Niagara Region.
He did say if we wanted to go hiking or mountain biking, etc. those uses would also be permitted, but did not advise that we should due to all the ATV traffic in the area. He also said that many horse people have stopped using it because of the same reason.
I asked him to define dirtbikes and it basically came to 2 wheeled off road motorcycles only. I asked him to define ATVs, he said anything with more than 2 wheels. I asked if regular road based (fully licenced and insured) vehicles such as 4 wheel drive SUVs/Jeep/trucks would be included in the above descriptions to which his response was if it doesn't have two wheels it is not permitted.
He mentioned that the region had spent over $10,000 on signs showing the permitted and prohibited uses for the area and within a few months almost all of the signs had been torn down.
He said it is extremely difficult for the region and it's municipal law enforcement to "police" the area, but if and when they do catch people improperly using the area they could be in for fines in the neighbourhood of $5,000 each.
Again, this was a great conversation and he was very informative. He was in no way accusatory towards anybody. He seemed annoyed by the fact that people do not adhere to the "rules" regarding this area and said he had some run-ins in the past with ATV riders who were less than pleasant when he was out hiking and made mention of the fact that the area was not open to them.
On the topic of why dirtbikes could use the area, he mantioned that they were permitted many years ago after they were given a 2 year probationary period and studied as to the damaged caused/repairs required/etc. and the study showed it could work. He also mentioned that a local ATV club had recently been formed and joined one of the planning committes to possibly be included in the discussuions around the use of the area and any possible future considerations in regards to ATVs in future planning and development.
He did say that it would be nice if the region found an area somewhere that they could open to ATVs, that it would not only help the ATV users to have a place, but it would possibly prevent them from using areas they shouldn't.
If you wish to be forwarded the info from Drew after he sends it to me, then shoot me a PM with your email address...
As of now, I will be out for the Welland Washouts Run, unless somebody can come up with better proof showing that it is an open area...but I think this sums it up...hate to be the bearer of bad news...
Anybody want to run Mud and 20? I wouldn't mind going out again, but not sure about Bowslaugh Rd...would rather head somewhere else in the area that my stocker LJ on 30s could handle (either with or without bypasses).
Jeff.
05-28-2009, 09:02 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: port colborne
Posts: 240
Re: june 6 canal bank run
hopefully after these phone calls made that they dont keep an eye on the trails now!
wont stop many im sure.
other wise we gota rip up collage real bad as its technicaly a road. but thats no fun.
i believe they used to have quad sings up
and had (no horse no walking)
wont stop many im sure.
other wise we gota rip up collage real bad as its technicaly a road. but thats no fun.
i believe they used to have quad sings up
and had (no horse no walking)
05-28-2009, 09:25 PM
#19
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28
Re: june 6 canal bank run
Well if this is the verdict than I think its time we organize and speak up.... Dime if you can forward me the info you aquire i'd appreciate it..
Who is up for getting the ball rolling? I have alot of media and political contacts as well as philanthropy contacts... Its time we stand up....I'm not very well known with the so4x4 guys here but a few of you guys know me.. how about some ppl chime in and let me know the history and direction here so we can preserve our sport and further our enjoyment of the hobby...
Who is up for getting the ball rolling? I have alot of media and political contacts as well as philanthropy contacts... Its time we stand up....I'm not very well known with the so4x4 guys here but a few of you guys know me.. how about some ppl chime in and let me know the history and direction here so we can preserve our sport and further our enjoyment of the hobby...