Jeff Strickland

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:464e3ec8$0$1964$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
> lsaugier@hilcorp.com wrote:
>> I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
>> that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
>> there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
>> starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
>> firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
>> unlikely to me.
>>
>> The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
>> I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
>> look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
>> that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
>> rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
>> it goes.
>>
>
> The switch is at the bottom end of the rod.
>
> As I mentioned, there are two green wires on that firewall relay/solenoid
> unit that are easy to mix then it just starts with battery power.
>
> Try swapping them.



WAIT -- STOP

Mike,
You are going at this from the direction that he screwed up on his
replacement, but his problem began before he did anything and continued
afterward. This tells me that he probably has done nothing wrong, therefore
his Jeep must be broken.



I think his trouble is that the Ignition Lock Set Linkage has broken, and is
holding the Ignition Switch to the START position. As soon as he connects
the battery terminal, the starter motor begins to crank, even if the key is
currently set to OFF.

Jeff Strickland

<lsaugier@hilcorp.com> wrote in message
news:1179519439.326218.307450@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> Here's what happened: I started my jeep ('87 YJ 4.2L) and the starter
> kept cranking, would not disengage. I didn't know what was happening
> and drove off. It sucked all the juice out of my battery and burnt up
> the starter.
>
> My first thought was that my solenoid (the part that sends juice from
> the battery to the starter) was stuck. I replaced my solenoid,
> starter motor, and battery. When everything was in place I connected
> the leads on my battery and the jeep turned over (and would have
> started) even though the ignition switch (the one on the steering
> column) was set to 'off'. So I think the ignition switch on the
> steering column is stuck in the 'start' position.
>
> How do you replace that thing? Where is it, is it right there where
> you put the key in? Do I need to take the steering wheel off and get
> to it that way? Chilton is pretty useless here, they really don't
> show you where it is or how to get at it.
>
> Next question - which wire on my solenoid comes from the steering
> column? I'm considering a simple 'on-off' switch and a starter button
> simply because I can't find where the starter switch is on the
> steering column. Any advice?
>


Let's back up a step of two and start over.

If you turn the key (Ignition Lock Set) and it does not feel right, then I
suggest you have broken parts in the steering column. You have already said
that you think that the Ignition Switch is stuck in the START position, I
agree. If this is true, then the key will feel odd -- less resistance than
you might expect, the lack of detents as it passes through other settings,
that sort of thing.

I would not mess around trying to install remote start switches, I would fix
the broken parts you already have. (I see no point in adding in new parts to
break and confuse the situation in 5 or 10 years.)

I have an '81 CJ5, and a '95 Ford Bronco, both of which had variations on
the same problem you are having. Both had repair parts available on the
aftermarket for just a few dollars. Of the two, the Jeep was cheaper and
easier to repair, but I digress.

You will need to remove the steering wheel and the Steering Lock Plate (you
need a special puller for the lock plate. Autozone has a Free Tool Loaner
Program that included the lock plate tool, or you can buy a tool for about
$10.). When the lock plate is out, you will see the broken linkage parts,
and all you need do is devise the proper route to get it out. Whether or not
you have Tilt Steering will alter the directions to get the linkage out, and
which linkage part you need to repair the trouble.

The linkage is a standard GM part. The aftermarket supplier is called HELP
Brand, and if I rember right, the blister package is backed with red paper.
(There are different colors of blister packs for the various areas of the
vehicle that the part(s) in the package are to be used on.) In my case, I
found the HELP Brand parts at Pep Boys -- a very large retail autoparts
store. I have found HELP parts at other stores, but the small store on the
corner by my house simply lacks the floor space to carry a wide selection.
Your corner store may carry the part you need, but if they don't then you
can drive across town to the huge autoparts store and probably find the
right part in stock.

Jeff Strickland

<lsaugier@hilcorp.com> wrote in message
news:1179519439.326218.307450@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> Here's what happened: I started my jeep ('87 YJ 4.2L) and the starter
> kept cranking, would not disengage. I didn't know what was happening
> and drove off. It sucked all the juice out of my battery and burnt up
> the starter.
>
> My first thought was that my solenoid (the part that sends juice from
> the battery to the starter) was stuck. I replaced my solenoid,
> starter motor, and battery. When everything was in place I connected
> the leads on my battery and the jeep turned over (and would have
> started) even though the ignition switch (the one on the steering
> column) was set to 'off'. So I think the ignition switch on the
> steering column is stuck in the 'start' position.
>
> How do you replace that thing? Where is it, is it right there where
> you put the key in? Do I need to take the steering wheel off and get
> to it that way? Chilton is pretty useless here, they really don't
> show you where it is or how to get at it.
>
> Next question - which wire on my solenoid comes from the steering
> column? I'm considering a simple 'on-off' switch and a starter button
> simply because I can't find where the starter switch is on the
> steering column. Any advice?
>


Let's back up a step of two and start over.

If you turn the key (Ignition Lock Set) and it does not feel right, then I
suggest you have broken parts in the steering column. You have already said
that you think that the Ignition Switch is stuck in the START position, I
agree. If this is true, then the key will feel odd -- less resistance than
you might expect, the lack of detents as it passes through other settings,
that sort of thing.

I would not mess around trying to install remote start switches, I would fix
the broken parts you already have. (I see no point in adding in new parts to
break and confuse the situation in 5 or 10 years.)

I have an '81 CJ5, and a '95 Ford Bronco, both of which had variations on
the same problem you are having. Both had repair parts available on the
aftermarket for just a few dollars. Of the two, the Jeep was cheaper and
easier to repair, but I digress.

You will need to remove the steering wheel and the Steering Lock Plate (you
need a special puller for the lock plate. Autozone has a Free Tool Loaner
Program that included the lock plate tool, or you can buy a tool for about
$10.). When the lock plate is out, you will see the broken linkage parts,
and all you need do is devise the proper route to get it out. Whether or not
you have Tilt Steering will alter the directions to get the linkage out, and
which linkage part you need to repair the trouble.

The linkage is a standard GM part. The aftermarket supplier is called HELP
Brand, and if I rember right, the blister package is backed with red paper.
(There are different colors of blister packs for the various areas of the
vehicle that the part(s) in the package are to be used on.) In my case, I
found the HELP Brand parts at Pep Boys -- a very large retail autoparts
store. I have found HELP parts at other stores, but the small store on the
corner by my house simply lacks the floor space to carry a wide selection.
Your corner store may carry the part you need, but if they don't then you
can drive across town to the huge autoparts store and probably find the
right part in stock.

Jeff Strickland

<lsaugier@hilcorp.com> wrote in message
news:1179519439.326218.307450@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> Here's what happened: I started my jeep ('87 YJ 4.2L) and the starter
> kept cranking, would not disengage. I didn't know what was happening
> and drove off. It sucked all the juice out of my battery and burnt up
> the starter.
>
> My first thought was that my solenoid (the part that sends juice from
> the battery to the starter) was stuck. I replaced my solenoid,
> starter motor, and battery. When everything was in place I connected
> the leads on my battery and the jeep turned over (and would have
> started) even though the ignition switch (the one on the steering
> column) was set to 'off'. So I think the ignition switch on the
> steering column is stuck in the 'start' position.
>
> How do you replace that thing? Where is it, is it right there where
> you put the key in? Do I need to take the steering wheel off and get
> to it that way? Chilton is pretty useless here, they really don't
> show you where it is or how to get at it.
>
> Next question - which wire on my solenoid comes from the steering
> column? I'm considering a simple 'on-off' switch and a starter button
> simply because I can't find where the starter switch is on the
> steering column. Any advice?
>


Let's back up a step of two and start over.

If you turn the key (Ignition Lock Set) and it does not feel right, then I
suggest you have broken parts in the steering column. You have already said
that you think that the Ignition Switch is stuck in the START position, I
agree. If this is true, then the key will feel odd -- less resistance than
you might expect, the lack of detents as it passes through other settings,
that sort of thing.

I would not mess around trying to install remote start switches, I would fix
the broken parts you already have. (I see no point in adding in new parts to
break and confuse the situation in 5 or 10 years.)

I have an '81 CJ5, and a '95 Ford Bronco, both of which had variations on
the same problem you are having. Both had repair parts available on the
aftermarket for just a few dollars. Of the two, the Jeep was cheaper and
easier to repair, but I digress.

You will need to remove the steering wheel and the Steering Lock Plate (you
need a special puller for the lock plate. Autozone has a Free Tool Loaner
Program that included the lock plate tool, or you can buy a tool for about
$10.). When the lock plate is out, you will see the broken linkage parts,
and all you need do is devise the proper route to get it out. Whether or not
you have Tilt Steering will alter the directions to get the linkage out, and
which linkage part you need to repair the trouble.

The linkage is a standard GM part. The aftermarket supplier is called HELP
Brand, and if I rember right, the blister package is backed with red paper.
(There are different colors of blister packs for the various areas of the
vehicle that the part(s) in the package are to be used on.) In my case, I
found the HELP Brand parts at Pep Boys -- a very large retail autoparts
store. I have found HELP parts at other stores, but the small store on the
corner by my house simply lacks the floor space to carry a wide selection.
Your corner store may carry the part you need, but if they don't then you
can drive across town to the huge autoparts store and probably find the
right part in stock.

Jeff Strickland

<lsaugier@hilcorp.com> wrote in message
news:1179519439.326218.307450@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> Here's what happened: I started my jeep ('87 YJ 4.2L) and the starter
> kept cranking, would not disengage. I didn't know what was happening
> and drove off. It sucked all the juice out of my battery and burnt up
> the starter.
>
> My first thought was that my solenoid (the part that sends juice from
> the battery to the starter) was stuck. I replaced my solenoid,
> starter motor, and battery. When everything was in place I connected
> the leads on my battery and the jeep turned over (and would have
> started) even though the ignition switch (the one on the steering
> column) was set to 'off'. So I think the ignition switch on the
> steering column is stuck in the 'start' position.
>
> How do you replace that thing? Where is it, is it right there where
> you put the key in? Do I need to take the steering wheel off and get
> to it that way? Chilton is pretty useless here, they really don't
> show you where it is or how to get at it.
>
> Next question - which wire on my solenoid comes from the steering
> column? I'm considering a simple 'on-off' switch and a starter button
> simply because I can't find where the starter switch is on the
> steering column. Any advice?
>


Let's back up a step of two and start over.

If you turn the key (Ignition Lock Set) and it does not feel right, then I
suggest you have broken parts in the steering column. You have already said
that you think that the Ignition Switch is stuck in the START position, I
agree. If this is true, then the key will feel odd -- less resistance than
you might expect, the lack of detents as it passes through other settings,
that sort of thing.

I would not mess around trying to install remote start switches, I would fix
the broken parts you already have. (I see no point in adding in new parts to
break and confuse the situation in 5 or 10 years.)

I have an '81 CJ5, and a '95 Ford Bronco, both of which had variations on
the same problem you are having. Both had repair parts available on the
aftermarket for just a few dollars. Of the two, the Jeep was cheaper and
easier to repair, but I digress.

You will need to remove the steering wheel and the Steering Lock Plate (you
need a special puller for the lock plate. Autozone has a Free Tool Loaner
Program that included the lock plate tool, or you can buy a tool for about
$10.). When the lock plate is out, you will see the broken linkage parts,
and all you need do is devise the proper route to get it out. Whether or not
you have Tilt Steering will alter the directions to get the linkage out, and
which linkage part you need to repair the trouble.

The linkage is a standard GM part. The aftermarket supplier is called HELP
Brand, and if I rember right, the blister package is backed with red paper.
(There are different colors of blister packs for the various areas of the
vehicle that the part(s) in the package are to be used on.) In my case, I
found the HELP Brand parts at Pep Boys -- a very large retail autoparts
store. I have found HELP parts at other stores, but the small store on the
corner by my house simply lacks the floor space to carry a wide selection.
Your corner store may carry the part you need, but if they don't then you
can drive across town to the huge autoparts store and probably find the
right part in stock.

Mike Romain

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:464e3ec8$0$1964$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>> lsaugier@hilcorp.com wrote:
>>> I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
>>> that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
>>> there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
>>> starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
>>> firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
>>> unlikely to me.
>>>
>>> The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
>>> I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
>>> look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
>>> that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
>>> rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
>>> it goes.
>>>
>>
>> The switch is at the bottom end of the rod.
>>
>> As I mentioned, there are two green wires on that firewall
>> relay/solenoid unit that are easy to mix then it just starts with
>> battery power.
>>
>> Try swapping them.
>
>
>
> WAIT -- STOP
>
> Mike,
> You are going at this from the direction that he screwed up on his
> replacement, but his problem began before he did anything and continued
> afterward. This tells me that he probably has done nothing wrong,
> therefore his Jeep must be broken.
>
>
>
> I think his trouble is that the Ignition Lock Set Linkage has broken,
> and is holding the Ignition Switch to the START position. As soon as he
> connects the battery terminal, the starter motor begins to crank, even
> if the key is currently set to OFF.

Good call, I won't disagree.

If he pulls the switch he will find out. It is easier to do with the
door off or open all the way with the strap off.

I really was thinking his meltdown got some other wires like the starter
trigger because I have seen this happen before. The heat took out the
firewall relay and some upstream wires when the relay shorted.

Mike

Mike Romain

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:464e3ec8$0$1964$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>> lsaugier@hilcorp.com wrote:
>>> I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
>>> that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
>>> there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
>>> starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
>>> firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
>>> unlikely to me.
>>>
>>> The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
>>> I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
>>> look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
>>> that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
>>> rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
>>> it goes.
>>>
>>
>> The switch is at the bottom end of the rod.
>>
>> As I mentioned, there are two green wires on that firewall
>> relay/solenoid unit that are easy to mix then it just starts with
>> battery power.
>>
>> Try swapping them.
>
>
>
> WAIT -- STOP
>
> Mike,
> You are going at this from the direction that he screwed up on his
> replacement, but his problem began before he did anything and continued
> afterward. This tells me that he probably has done nothing wrong,
> therefore his Jeep must be broken.
>
>
>
> I think his trouble is that the Ignition Lock Set Linkage has broken,
> and is holding the Ignition Switch to the START position. As soon as he
> connects the battery terminal, the starter motor begins to crank, even
> if the key is currently set to OFF.

Good call, I won't disagree.

If he pulls the switch he will find out. It is easier to do with the
door off or open all the way with the strap off.

I really was thinking his meltdown got some other wires like the starter
trigger because I have seen this happen before. The heat took out the
firewall relay and some upstream wires when the relay shorted.

Mike

Mike Romain

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:464e3ec8$0$1964$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>> lsaugier@hilcorp.com wrote:
>>> I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
>>> that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
>>> there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
>>> starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
>>> firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
>>> unlikely to me.
>>>
>>> The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
>>> I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
>>> look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
>>> that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
>>> rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
>>> it goes.
>>>
>>
>> The switch is at the bottom end of the rod.
>>
>> As I mentioned, there are two green wires on that firewall
>> relay/solenoid unit that are easy to mix then it just starts with
>> battery power.
>>
>> Try swapping them.
>
>
>
> WAIT -- STOP
>
> Mike,
> You are going at this from the direction that he screwed up on his
> replacement, but his problem began before he did anything and continued
> afterward. This tells me that he probably has done nothing wrong,
> therefore his Jeep must be broken.
>
>
>
> I think his trouble is that the Ignition Lock Set Linkage has broken,
> and is holding the Ignition Switch to the START position. As soon as he
> connects the battery terminal, the starter motor begins to crank, even
> if the key is currently set to OFF.

Good call, I won't disagree.

If he pulls the switch he will find out. It is easier to do with the
door off or open all the way with the strap off.

I really was thinking his meltdown got some other wires like the starter
trigger because I have seen this happen before. The heat took out the
firewall relay and some upstream wires when the relay shorted.

Mike

Mike Romain

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:464e3ec8$0$1964$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>> lsaugier@hilcorp.com wrote:
>>> I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
>>> that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
>>> there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
>>> starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
>>> firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
>>> unlikely to me.
>>>
>>> The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
>>> I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
>>> look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
>>> that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
>>> rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
>>> it goes.
>>>
>>
>> The switch is at the bottom end of the rod.
>>
>> As I mentioned, there are two green wires on that firewall
>> relay/solenoid unit that are easy to mix then it just starts with
>> battery power.
>>
>> Try swapping them.
>
>
>
> WAIT -- STOP
>
> Mike,
> You are going at this from the direction that he screwed up on his
> replacement, but his problem began before he did anything and continued
> afterward. This tells me that he probably has done nothing wrong,
> therefore his Jeep must be broken.
>
>
>
> I think his trouble is that the Ignition Lock Set Linkage has broken,
> and is holding the Ignition Switch to the START position. As soon as he
> connects the battery terminal, the starter motor begins to crank, even
> if the key is currently set to OFF.

Good call, I won't disagree.

If he pulls the switch he will find out. It is easier to do with the
door off or open all the way with the strap off.

I really was thinking his meltdown got some other wires like the starter
trigger because I have seen this happen before. The heat took out the
firewall relay and some upstream wires when the relay shorted.

Mike

Mike Romain

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> <lsaugier@hilcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:1179519439.326218.307450@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>> Here's what happened: I started my jeep ('87 YJ 4.2L) and the starter
>> kept cranking, would not disengage. I didn't know what was happening
>> and drove off. It sucked all the juice out of my battery and burnt up
>> the starter.
>>
>> My first thought was that my solenoid (the part that sends juice from
>> the battery to the starter) was stuck. I replaced my solenoid,
>> starter motor, and battery. When everything was in place I connected
>> the leads on my battery and the jeep turned over (and would have
>> started) even though the ignition switch (the one on the steering
>> column) was set to 'off'. So I think the ignition switch on the
>> steering column is stuck in the 'start' position.
>>
>> How do you replace that thing? Where is it, is it right there where
>> you put the key in? Do I need to take the steering wheel off and get
>> to it that way? Chilton is pretty useless here, they really don't
>> show you where it is or how to get at it.
>>
>> Next question - which wire on my solenoid comes from the steering
>> column? I'm considering a simple 'on-off' switch and a starter button
>> simply because I can't find where the starter switch is on the
>> steering column. Any advice?
>>
>
>
> Let's back up a step of two and start over.
>

I think he should pull the switch at the 'bottom' which is easy first to
verify if that is the trouble or not before ripping the wheel apart...

Mike