Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Wow...do the front actually do that much?

Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
actually shared an arse clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed down
and skidded....but all's ok!


"mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's share
of
> the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
>
> Tom
>
>
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:T72Ec.5$T6i.0@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.roger s.com...
> > is that like a proportioning valve? Give the 60/40 braking on the
> > front/rear?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > combination valve?
> > >
> > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > >
> > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> snip
>
>

Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Wow...do the front actually do that much?

Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
actually shared an arse clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed down
and skidded....but all's ok!


"mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's share
of
> the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
>
> Tom
>
>
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:T72Ec.5$T6i.0@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.roger s.com...
> > is that like a proportioning valve? Give the 60/40 braking on the
> > front/rear?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > combination valve?
> > >
> > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > >
> > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> snip
>
>

Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Wow...do the front actually do that much?

Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
actually shared an arse clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed down
and skidded....but all's ok!


"mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's share
of
> the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
>
> Tom
>
>
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:T72Ec.5$T6i.0@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.roger s.com...
> > is that like a proportioning valve? Give the 60/40 braking on the
> > front/rear?
> >
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > combination valve?
> > >
> > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > >
> > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> snip
>
>

Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Oh, it's an "on the fly" type of doo-hickey!
On the older muscle cars, wasn't it something that you set by a knob and
left? Or was there a way to do a real time adjust on that too?!


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40E0BDC0.F6D2B9C7@sympatico.ca...
> Yes.
>
> It is a bit more complicated than just a 60/40 split. On pickups and
> Jeeps it really tries to never lock the rears while keeping braking. It
> plays with the pressures.
>
> Mike
>
> SB wrote:
> >
> > is that like a proportioning valve? Give the 60/40 braking on the
> > front/rear?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > combination valve?
> > >
> > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > >
> > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Bob wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent
brake
> > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I
want
> > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for
info
> > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what
I
> > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > >
> > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to
instructions
> > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be
awesome.
> > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I
should
> > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > great!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > >
> > > > /Bob
> > > >
> > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.

Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Oh, it's an "on the fly" type of doo-hickey!
On the older muscle cars, wasn't it something that you set by a knob and
left? Or was there a way to do a real time adjust on that too?!


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40E0BDC0.F6D2B9C7@sympatico.ca...
> Yes.
>
> It is a bit more complicated than just a 60/40 split. On pickups and
> Jeeps it really tries to never lock the rears while keeping braking. It
> plays with the pressures.
>
> Mike
>
> SB wrote:
> >
> > is that like a proportioning valve? Give the 60/40 braking on the
> > front/rear?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > combination valve?
> > >
> > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > >
> > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Bob wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent
brake
> > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I
want
> > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for
info
> > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what
I
> > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > >
> > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to
instructions
> > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be
awesome.
> > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I
should
> > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > great!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > >
> > > > /Bob
> > > >
> > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.

Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Oh, it's an "on the fly" type of doo-hickey!
On the older muscle cars, wasn't it something that you set by a knob and
left? Or was there a way to do a real time adjust on that too?!


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40E0BDC0.F6D2B9C7@sympatico.ca...
> Yes.
>
> It is a bit more complicated than just a 60/40 split. On pickups and
> Jeeps it really tries to never lock the rears while keeping braking. It
> plays with the pressures.
>
> Mike
>
> SB wrote:
> >
> > is that like a proportioning valve? Give the 60/40 braking on the
> > front/rear?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > combination valve?
> > >
> > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > >
> > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Bob wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent
brake
> > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I
want
> > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for
info
> > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what
I
> > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > >
> > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to
instructions
> > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be
awesome.
> > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I
should
> > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > great!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > >
> > > > /Bob
> > > >
> > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.

Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Oh, it's an "on the fly" type of doo-hickey!
On the older muscle cars, wasn't it something that you set by a knob and
left? Or was there a way to do a real time adjust on that too?!


"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40E0BDC0.F6D2B9C7@sympatico.ca...
> Yes.
>
> It is a bit more complicated than just a 60/40 split. On pickups and
> Jeeps it really tries to never lock the rears while keeping braking. It
> plays with the pressures.
>
> Mike
>
> SB wrote:
> >
> > is that like a proportioning valve? Give the 60/40 braking on the
> > front/rear?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca...
> > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > combination valve?
> > >
> > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > >
> > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Bob wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent
brake
> > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I
want
> > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for
info
> > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what
I
> > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > >
> > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to
instructions
> > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be
awesome.
> > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I
should
> > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > great!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > >
> > > > /Bob
> > > >
> > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.

Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On the
TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual braking.

Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in 2-wheel
drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the rear
wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73 rear
axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while mashing
the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop the
rears easily.

Tom

"SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> Wow...do the front actually do that much?
>
> Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> actually shared an arse clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed down
> and skidded....but all's ok!
>
>
> "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's share
> of
> > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> >
> > Tom

Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On the
TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual braking.

Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in 2-wheel
drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the rear
wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73 rear
axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while mashing
the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop the
rears easily.

Tom

"SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> Wow...do the front actually do that much?
>
> Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> actually shared an arse clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed down
> and skidded....but all's ok!
>
>
> "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's share
> of
> > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> >
> > Tom

Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
 

Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On the
TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual braking.

Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in 2-wheel
drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the rear
wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73 rear
axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while mashing
the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop the
rears easily.

Tom

"SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> Wow...do the front actually do that much?
>
> Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> actually shared an arse clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed down
> and skidded....but all's ok!
>
>
> "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's share
> of
> > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> >
> > Tom