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Its hard. And knowing how to drive in certian types of snow doesnt prepare you for
other types very well. This dry powder that we have now is nothing like the heavy
wet ice-snow that we normally get. Totally a new experiance for me. I drove my car
today (not the Jeep), turns out it wasnt a problem after all, those particular tires
stick really well in this powdery stuff. As opposed the the Jeep tires that just dig
and dig and dig - straight down and not fowards. lol. I actuallly might have had
more issues getting home if I had taken the Jeep - not that that will stop me from
driving it tomorrow. =)
-jenn

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:07:26 -0800, "Doug" <nono@nono.com> wrote:

>>OK, so help out the less fortunate. I am serious and not trying to be a
>>jerk.
>>
>>I live in the San Franscisco bay area so there is not much opportunity to
>>learn ice and snow driving. You all know that though.
>>
>>I do drive to central Oregon once or twice each winter. Most times the roads
>>are good. This past Christmas we were on ice, ( with chain control for
>>2WD ), in Shasta then again on 97 between ~ Chiloquin and La Pine. This was
>>the second most stressful driving experience ever for me. First was the same
>>area ~10years ago. Anyway, we were in a line of traffic and it appeared most
>>folks around us knew what they were doing. I could see that the big rigs had
>>chains on but it did not appear the passenger cars did. Maybe they had
>>studded tires.
>>My wife was feeling comfortable in our ZJ until one of the handful in the
>>ditch along the way was another ZJ. She also did not feel how we were
>>slipping around @ 10-30 MPH.
>>
>>So, how do I get to know how to drive in these conditions? I did Google
>>winter driving schools but if I live in the areas that came back I think I
>>could just 'go play' in an empty area as others have mentioned.
>>
>>Is there a driving school for this in my area I have not found?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>doug
>>
>>
>>"Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:Nb2dnYvZWNXlyTHYnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@comcast.co m...
>>> Brett Ryan proclaimed:
>>>
>>>> Question,
>>>> How many people here have had the chance to observe people who own
>>>> 4x4's, but do not know how to use them in winter driving conditions like
>>>> ice and snow? Down here in Houston, and Texas in general these
>>>> conditions create all kinds of fun situations for people who think they
>>>> can drive, but really can't, get into.
>>>> I really love it when someone who has a jeep ends up on an icy road,
>>>> thinking that the engaged 4x4 will help them maintain control only to
>>>> find out that it does not make a difference.
>>>> Ok, my two cents worth now that the ice, sleet, and snow have arrived
>>>> in Texas.
>>>
>>> The answer to your first question can be answered with another question:
>>>
>>> How many people have ever driven over Donner Pass in the wintertime and
>>> watched 99.99999% of the 4x4's.
>>>
>>

I second everything Mike, jbjeep, and Earle said - with the exception
of the cops on the lake thing, which I've never seen and so can't
comment on - but it sounds pretty sweet.

The only way to learn it is experience. We can tell you stuff like
drive slowly, turn into the skid, use engine braking if possible - it's
all good advice, but vehicles on snow and especially ice behave
radically different than dirt, mud, and rocks. If you've never been on
it, it's hard to explain - no frame of reference and all that.

I don't know anything about schools for winter driving - I've never
heard of any here on the right coast.
Next time you're up in Oregon in the snow take the opportunity and find
a low-traffic road or unplowed parking lot and just hit your brakes or
throw your steering wheel around and such (carefully, of course, you
don't want to wreck your jeep) and just note how your vehicle handles.
It's tons of fun and it'll teach you a bit about what you're dealing
with.

Also, take a look back up-thread at Mike's advice about 2wd/PT 4wd etc.
Very good stuff.

Earle Horton wrote:
> I learned how to drive in this stuff. The worst surface I ever drove on was
> ice with rain water on top of it. The only way to make progress was to put
> one wheel on the crunchy stuff at the edge of the road and two women on the
> hood (front wheel drive car). The second worse experience is when the snow
> is blowing so hard that you can't see the road surface. Then you have to
> drive ten feet or so, stop, and make sure you are still on the road.
>
> You are not going to take a course, and then be able to handle winter
> driving "like a native". You need practice to get it right. You could try
> a few tricks like slowing down though. Lots of people don't know how
> helpful that is. The Denver Police practice on frozen Georgetown Lake. It
> is fun to watch. Knowing to turn into the skid helps.
>
> Most states you don't need chains (legally that is) if you have four wheel
> drive and snow tires. Many times chain advisories only apply to "commercial
> vehicles".
>
> Earle
>
> "Doug" <nono@nono.com> wrote in message
> news:vbudnbMnaN9Z9TDYnZ2dnUVZ_qisnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> > OK, so help out the less fortunate. I am serious and not trying to be a
> > jerk.
> >
> > I live in the San Franscisco bay area so there is not much opportunity to
> > learn ice and snow driving. You all know that though.
> >
> > I do drive to central Oregon once or twice each winter. Most times the
> roads
> > are good. This past Christmas we were on ice, ( with chain control for
> > 2WD ), in Shasta then again on 97 between ~ Chiloquin and La Pine. This
> was
> > the second most stressful driving experience ever for me. First was the
> same
> > area ~10years ago. Anyway, we were in a line of traffic and it appeared
> most
> > folks around us knew what they were doing. I could see that the big rigs
> had
> > chains on but it did not appear the passenger cars did. Maybe they had
> > studded tires.
> > My wife was feeling comfortable in our ZJ until one of the handful in the
> > ditch along the way was another ZJ. She also did not feel how we were
> > slipping around @ 10-30 MPH.
> >
> > So, how do I get to know how to drive in these conditions? I did Google
> > winter driving schools but if I live in the areas that came back I think I
> > could just 'go play' in an empty area as others have mentioned.
> >
> > Is there a driving school for this in my area I have not found?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > doug
> >
> >
> > "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:Nb2dnYvZWNXlyTHYnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> > > Brett Ryan proclaimed:
> > >
> > >> Question,
> > >> How many people here have had the chance to observe people who own
> > >> 4x4's, but do not know how to use them in winter driving conditions
> like
> > >> ice and snow? Down here in Houston, and Texas in general these
> > >> conditions create all kinds of fun situations for people who think they
> > >> can drive, but really can't, get into.
> > >> I really love it when someone who has a jeep ends up on an icy
> road,
> > >> thinking that the engaged 4x4 will help them maintain control only to
> > >> find out that it does not make a difference.
> > >> Ok, my two cents worth now that the ice, sleet, and snow have
> arrived
> > >> in Texas.
> > >
> > > The answer to your first question can be answered with another question:
> > >
> > > How many people have ever driven over Donner Pass in the wintertime and
> > > watched 99.99999% of the 4x4's.
> > >
> >
> >

Brett:

You live in Houston, huh? I don't understand why it's surprising that
you have idiot drivers there. I'm from Austin, whenever I have to go
to your neck of the woods I go waaaaaaay around you... Last time I
tried driving in your city I almost burned up my clutch.

The ice is out of control here, they've shut down all our flyovers,
we're fresh out of chemical de-icer and there have been wrecks
everywhere. One of my buddies came up to my house earlier today to
borrow something, said he had his truck in 4wheel going 80 past
everyone on I-35 and he almost rear-ended someone when his brakes
didn't quite work as he'd hoped. I just laughed at him.

-Micah

Well, northern LA county got hit with some wintry stuff today...I was kinda
snickering.

I just got back from Atlanta and the local morning news was talking about
how all the grocery stores ran out of bread, milk and firewood because it
got down to 28*F last night and they might be getting some precipitation
today. Being from Michigan, I had to laugh.

Easter 2004 found me in Nashville where it was about 45 degrees and rainy.
Suddenly a snow mix started coming down. It had been 60 degrees all week so
I knew there was no way the snow was going to stick to the road, and the
roads would just stay wet.
It was funny how everyone was slowing down to 35-40 mph on I-24 while I was
blowing past them in my F250 with my Jeep on a trailer.

When I got to our hotel a group of college-age kids ran outside, mesmerized
by the "snowfall."

That said, my freshman year at Belmont College in Nashville saw an 8-inch
snowfall overnight, the day before the start of the January '88 term. That
pretty much paralyzed the city, but I learned to drive in snow years before
and my roomate was from Chicago so we had no trouble.

"The Merg" <greg.mergner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168921940.422895.92970@s34g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> This might sound odd to some people, but I'd sell my mother for some
> snow.
> It's been mid-60s for about a week and a half now, which, although
> great weather for working on the XJ or driving the YJ with no top and
> doors, sucks because why have a winter at all if it's not going to
> snow? I'd move to SoCal if I wanted this kind of weather. Besides, it
> reeks havoc on the blue crab and oyster populations.
>
> &^#&^%$ global warming...
>
> (sorry mom)
>
> On Jan 15, 10:39 pm, Thoth1...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Just got back from a nightly snow run... we just got 15-20 cm. amazing.
>> It's my first REAL snow in Montreal since i got the jeep in May 2006.
>> Love the handling, in 2 and 4wd.
>>
>> On Jan 15, 5:50 pm, Brett Ryan <bsr...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Mike,
>> > Thanks for the reply. Personally I'm amazed at the poor
>> > driving that
>> > I've seen here in Texas, even in good weather. Amazing what you see.
>> > As of my writing this there's been 100 major accidents reported around
>> > the state today. Amazing. Amazing lack of common sense in people.
>>
>> > Having Fun,
>> > Brett
>>
>> > Mike Romain wrote:
>> > > Driving a 4x4 is a learning experience. They handle like no other
>> > > vehicle when in 'part time' 4x4.
>>
>> > > To stop when in part time 4x4, my owners manual says to 'stay off the
>> > > brakes' and to use the gears and steering for slowing down or
>> > > avoiding
>> > > something. I have found that my Jeeps will stop amazingly fast like
>> > > that and practice it off road all the time. Just need the brakes for
>> > > the final stop. Folks are always told to stay off the brakes and use
>> > > the gears when in PT 4x4 off road. Same deal when in PT 4x4 on road
>> > > in
>> > > a snowstorm!
>>
>> > > The problem with using the brakes is the front and rear axles are
>> > > locked
>> > > together. In a normal 2 wheel drive vehicle when you hit the brakes
>> > > in
>> > > snow, the steering usually just locks up so you track straight ahead.
>> > > Jeeps and most SUV's have a combination or proportioning valve that
>> > > is
>> > > supposed to prevent rear wheel lock up to avoid the vehicle swapping
>> > > ends for this.
>>
>> > > However when you are in part time 4x4, when the front wheels lock
>> > > up...
>> > > so do the rear wheels because of the nature of the locked center
>> > > differential.
>>
>> > > This means a Jeep or any vehicle in part time 4x4 will slide sideways
>> > > faster than you can blink with all 4 wheels locked up. Instant off
>> > > the
>> > > high side of the curve ditch fodder.
>>
>> > > I highly recommend folks use their 'shift on the fly' at any legal
>> > > speed
>> > > feature of the 4x4 so they get used to treating it 'just like any
>> > > other
>> > > shift'. See snow coming, shift into 4x4, see clear coming shift back
>> > > to
>> > > 2 WD. This way in an emergency, shifting into or out of 4x4 comes
>> > > naturally.
>>
>> > > I find 2 WD better when doing left turn at snowy or slushy
>> > > intersections. I use 2WD then as I come out of the turn, I hit 4x4
>> > > to
>> > > pull me into the straight. I find this because when turning in PT
>> > > 4x4
>> > > one wheel has to scuff the ground because the front wheels and rear
>> > > travel different distances around a corner. When this happens, the
>> > > front wheels tend to get up on top of the snow and the Jeep just
>> > > wants
>> > > to go straight around the long corner unless you goose it to grab
>> > > which
>> > > isn't always a good thing to do.
>>
>> > > I highly recommend an empty parking lot or open trail come first snow
>> > > to
>> > > find out just how your 4x4 does handle.
>>
>> > > On our last New Years trip last year it was insane the number of
>> > > SUV's
>> > > that passed me in a snowstorm on the highway only to be found in the
>> > > ditch off the top side of a corner aways along. I think we counted 8
>> > > in
>> > > about a hundred miles. I was doing a nice 55-60 mph in 4x4 part time
>> > > or
>> > > keeping with the transport truck's speed.
>>
>> > > Then if you see 'all' the transport trucks parked at the truck stops,
>> > > it's time to rethink the timing of the trip and maybe stop for a
>> > > break
>> > > too.....
>>
>> > > Mike
>> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> > > Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>> > > Brett Ryan wrote:
>> > >> Question,
>> > >> How many people here have had the chance to observe people who
>> > >> own
>> > >> 4x4's, but do not know how to use them in winter driving conditions
>> > >> like ice and snow? Down here in Houston, and Texas in general these
>> > >> conditions create all kinds of fun situations for people who think
>> > >> they can drive, but really can't, get into.
>> > >> I really love it when someone who has a jeep ends up on an icy
>> > >> road, thinking that the engaged 4x4 will help them maintain control
>> > >> only to find out that it does not make a difference.
>> > >> Ok, my two cents worth now that the ice, sleet, and snow have
>> > >> arrived in Texas.
>>
>> > >> Having Fun,
>> > >> Brett
>