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Re: Winches
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:34:37 -0700, the following appeared
in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys, posted by L.W.(ßill) ------ III <----------@cox.net>: [Converted to bottom-post for readability] >Bob Casanova wrote: >> >> Good idea, but what does that have to do with my post, which >> was an answer to whether water will "short out" a battery? > I thought we were talking about whether a winch would work under >water, and not short out. Nope; sorry. The exchange was: [My response to SB] Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very good conductor. [SB's post] >But really....if the water level got to the height of the battery >terminals...wouldn't that short it out? forget the water level in the cab >getting in to those cheesy connectors that we put on our CB's and stuff.. So the question was whether water will "short out" a battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > Of course it will, the answer is yes. Some may >give you some high school BS about adding salt to their experiment, but >your winch most definitely will not complete a pull while submerged. Try >it. No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. -- Bob C. Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net (without the spaces, of course) "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov |
Re: Winches
The motor must be vented for cooling, otherwise it would cook in
seconds, as energy is heat. I think you'll find the winch made to be submerged will have some sort of coolant and heat exchanger. I'm glad no one's stupid enough to try their electric winch underwater. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Bob Casanova wrote: > > [Converted to bottom-post for readability] > > Nope; sorry. The exchange was: > > [My response to SB] > > Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very > good conductor. > > [SB's post] > > So the question was whether water will "short out" a > battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > > No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good > insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems > just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor > started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It > shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed > system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. > > -- > > Bob C. > > Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net > (without the spaces, of course) > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" > - Isaac Asimov |
Re: Winches
The motor must be vented for cooling, otherwise it would cook in
seconds, as energy is heat. I think you'll find the winch made to be submerged will have some sort of coolant and heat exchanger. I'm glad no one's stupid enough to try their electric winch underwater. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Bob Casanova wrote: > > [Converted to bottom-post for readability] > > Nope; sorry. The exchange was: > > [My response to SB] > > Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very > good conductor. > > [SB's post] > > So the question was whether water will "short out" a > battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > > No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good > insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems > just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor > started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It > shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed > system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. > > -- > > Bob C. > > Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net > (without the spaces, of course) > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" > - Isaac Asimov |
Re: Winches
The motor must be vented for cooling, otherwise it would cook in
seconds, as energy is heat. I think you'll find the winch made to be submerged will have some sort of coolant and heat exchanger. I'm glad no one's stupid enough to try their electric winch underwater. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Bob Casanova wrote: > > [Converted to bottom-post for readability] > > Nope; sorry. The exchange was: > > [My response to SB] > > Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very > good conductor. > > [SB's post] > > So the question was whether water will "short out" a > battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > > No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good > insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems > just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor > started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It > shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed > system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. > > -- > > Bob C. > > Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net > (without the spaces, of course) > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" > - Isaac Asimov |
Re: Winches
The motor must be vented for cooling, otherwise it would cook in
seconds, as energy is heat. I think you'll find the winch made to be submerged will have some sort of coolant and heat exchanger. I'm glad no one's stupid enough to try their electric winch underwater. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Bob Casanova wrote: > > [Converted to bottom-post for readability] > > Nope; sorry. The exchange was: > > [My response to SB] > > Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very > good conductor. > > [SB's post] > > So the question was whether water will "short out" a > battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > > No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good > insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems > just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor > started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It > shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed > system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. > > -- > > Bob C. > > Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net > (without the spaces, of course) > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" > - Isaac Asimov |
Re: Winches
ok...but since all things run from teh battery (unless the other argument
over hydraulic wins here) then having the battery short out from water won't let anything run anyhow!! I'm not sure about connectors shorting out, if the fuses will pop and sever that short...but definately from one terminal to the other it would. And as far as salt water vs regular water.... Salt water is a better conductor but I'm sure water is still a pretty good one. sometimes the dirty grungy water will work just as good as salt water for conduction.... "Bob Casanova" <nospam@buzz.off> wrote in message news:317090tglioqmem5gdmkqki4s425ejboht@4ax.com... > On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:34:37 -0700, the following appeared > in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys, posted by L.W.(ßill) ------ > III <----------@cox.net>: > > [Converted to bottom-post for readability] > > >Bob Casanova wrote: > >> > >> Good idea, but what does that have to do with my post, which > >> was an answer to whether water will "short out" a battery? > > > I thought we were talking about whether a winch would work under > >water, and not short out. > > Nope; sorry. The exchange was: > > [My response to SB] > > Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very > good conductor. > > [SB's post] > > >But really....if the water level got to the height of the battery > >terminals...wouldn't that short it out? forget the water level in the cab > >getting in to those cheesy connectors that we put on our CB's and stuff.. > > So the question was whether water will "short out" a > battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > > > Of course it will, the answer is yes. Some may > >give you some high school BS about adding salt to their experiment, but > >your winch most definitely will not complete a pull while submerged. Try > >it. > > No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good > insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems > just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor > started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It > shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed > system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. > > -- > > Bob C. > > Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net > (without the spaces, of course) > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" > - Isaac Asimov |
Re: Winches
ok...but since all things run from teh battery (unless the other argument
over hydraulic wins here) then having the battery short out from water won't let anything run anyhow!! I'm not sure about connectors shorting out, if the fuses will pop and sever that short...but definately from one terminal to the other it would. And as far as salt water vs regular water.... Salt water is a better conductor but I'm sure water is still a pretty good one. sometimes the dirty grungy water will work just as good as salt water for conduction.... "Bob Casanova" <nospam@buzz.off> wrote in message news:317090tglioqmem5gdmkqki4s425ejboht@4ax.com... > On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:34:37 -0700, the following appeared > in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys, posted by L.W.(ßill) ------ > III <----------@cox.net>: > > [Converted to bottom-post for readability] > > >Bob Casanova wrote: > >> > >> Good idea, but what does that have to do with my post, which > >> was an answer to whether water will "short out" a battery? > > > I thought we were talking about whether a winch would work under > >water, and not short out. > > Nope; sorry. The exchange was: > > [My response to SB] > > Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very > good conductor. > > [SB's post] > > >But really....if the water level got to the height of the battery > >terminals...wouldn't that short it out? forget the water level in the cab > >getting in to those cheesy connectors that we put on our CB's and stuff.. > > So the question was whether water will "short out" a > battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > > > Of course it will, the answer is yes. Some may > >give you some high school BS about adding salt to their experiment, but > >your winch most definitely will not complete a pull while submerged. Try > >it. > > No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good > insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems > just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor > started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It > shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed > system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. > > -- > > Bob C. > > Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net > (without the spaces, of course) > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" > - Isaac Asimov |
Re: Winches
ok...but since all things run from teh battery (unless the other argument
over hydraulic wins here) then having the battery short out from water won't let anything run anyhow!! I'm not sure about connectors shorting out, if the fuses will pop and sever that short...but definately from one terminal to the other it would. And as far as salt water vs regular water.... Salt water is a better conductor but I'm sure water is still a pretty good one. sometimes the dirty grungy water will work just as good as salt water for conduction.... "Bob Casanova" <nospam@buzz.off> wrote in message news:317090tglioqmem5gdmkqki4s425ejboht@4ax.com... > On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:34:37 -0700, the following appeared > in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys, posted by L.W.(ßill) ------ > III <----------@cox.net>: > > [Converted to bottom-post for readability] > > >Bob Casanova wrote: > >> > >> Good idea, but what does that have to do with my post, which > >> was an answer to whether water will "short out" a battery? > > > I thought we were talking about whether a winch would work under > >water, and not short out. > > Nope; sorry. The exchange was: > > [My response to SB] > > Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very > good conductor. > > [SB's post] > > >But really....if the water level got to the height of the battery > >terminals...wouldn't that short it out? forget the water level in the cab > >getting in to those cheesy connectors that we put on our CB's and stuff.. > > So the question was whether water will "short out" a > battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > > > Of course it will, the answer is yes. Some may > >give you some high school BS about adding salt to their experiment, but > >your winch most definitely will not complete a pull while submerged. Try > >it. > > No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good > insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems > just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor > started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It > shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed > system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. > > -- > > Bob C. > > Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net > (without the spaces, of course) > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" > - Isaac Asimov |
Re: Winches
ok...but since all things run from teh battery (unless the other argument
over hydraulic wins here) then having the battery short out from water won't let anything run anyhow!! I'm not sure about connectors shorting out, if the fuses will pop and sever that short...but definately from one terminal to the other it would. And as far as salt water vs regular water.... Salt water is a better conductor but I'm sure water is still a pretty good one. sometimes the dirty grungy water will work just as good as salt water for conduction.... "Bob Casanova" <nospam@buzz.off> wrote in message news:317090tglioqmem5gdmkqki4s425ejboht@4ax.com... > On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:34:37 -0700, the following appeared > in rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys, posted by L.W.(ßill) ------ > III <----------@cox.net>: > > [Converted to bottom-post for readability] > > >Bob Casanova wrote: > >> > >> Good idea, but what does that have to do with my post, which > >> was an answer to whether water will "short out" a battery? > > > I thought we were talking about whether a winch would work under > >water, and not short out. > > Nope; sorry. The exchange was: > > [My response to SB] > > Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very > good conductor. > > [SB's post] > > >But really....if the water level got to the height of the battery > >terminals...wouldn't that short it out? forget the water level in the cab > >getting in to those cheesy connectors that we put on our CB's and stuff.. > > So the question was whether water will "short out" a > battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > > > Of course it will, the answer is yes. Some may > >give you some high school BS about adding salt to their experiment, but > >your winch most definitely will not complete a pull while submerged. Try > >it. > > No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good > insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems > just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor > started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It > shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed > system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. > > -- > > Bob C. > > Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net > (without the spaces, of course) > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" > - Isaac Asimov |
Re: Winches
Bill, I would try my Warn XD9000i underwater in a quick second if
needed. It is sealed (no vents) and uses the wire rope drum for the heat exchanger. It pointedly says you can't use 'rope' on it, it has to be wire rope for the heat exchanger. I am thinking it is time to take it apart and regrease the O-rings to keep the water tight integrity. Should I be changing my thoughts on my winch? I have no paper work for it, it was left to me in a Will from our old roommate, may Bruce RIP. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote: > > The motor must be vented for cooling, otherwise it would cook in > seconds, as energy is heat. I think you'll find the winch made to be > submerged will have some sort of coolant and heat exchanger. > I'm glad no one's stupid enough to try their electric winch > underwater. > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Bob Casanova wrote: > > > > [Converted to bottom-post for readability] > > > > Nope; sorry. The exchange was: > > > > [My response to SB] > > > > Saltwater will. Freshwater (usually) won't; it's not a very > > good conductor. > > > > [SB's post] > > > > So the question was whether water will "short out" a > > battery; he didn't say anything about winches. > > > > No, thanks. Even in distilled water (which is a damn good > > insulator, and wouldn't cause direct *electrical* problems > > just by its presence) you'd have problems when the motor > > started, at the commutators and perhaps elsewhere. It > > shouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to create a sealed > > system, though; it's done all the time for shipboard use. > > > > -- > > > > Bob C. > > > > Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net > > (without the spaces, of course) > > > > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > > 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" > > - Isaac Asimov |
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