J.P.

Whatever bumper you buy... Make sure that it mounts/bolts to the
FRAME, and not just the rear crossmember. The rear crossmember is too
weak to hold up a large spare tire. My bumper has pulled through the
crossmember already.

JP

Patrick Mills <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.12.31.18.15.15.623724@ix.netcom.com >...
> I'm looking for recommendations for a good rear bumper for an '04 TJ, and
> am wanting one that has as many of the following features as possible:
>
> 1) Swing-away carrier for up to 35" spare tire
> 2) Hi-lift jack mount
> 3) Gerry can storage
> 4) Mount point for CB antenna
> 5) Storage rack
> 6) Tow points
> 7) 2" Receiver hitch
>
> I have found the Bulletproof bumper website, and am considering their
> unit, but don't know anyone who actually has their bumper. I like the
> supposed ability of this unit to allow close-up spare storage by forgoing
> the gerry-can mount, but still allowing the full storage to be used if
> needed.
>
> I also don't know if there are other, possibly better, choices with these
> features.
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> PLM

J.P.

Whatever bumper you buy... Make sure that it mounts/bolts to the
FRAME, and not just the rear crossmember. The rear crossmember is too
weak to hold up a large spare tire. My bumper has pulled through the
crossmember already.

JP

Patrick Mills <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.12.31.18.15.15.623724@ix.netcom.com >...
> I'm looking for recommendations for a good rear bumper for an '04 TJ, and
> am wanting one that has as many of the following features as possible:
>
> 1) Swing-away carrier for up to 35" spare tire
> 2) Hi-lift jack mount
> 3) Gerry can storage
> 4) Mount point for CB antenna
> 5) Storage rack
> 6) Tow points
> 7) 2" Receiver hitch
>
> I have found the Bulletproof bumper website, and am considering their
> unit, but don't know anyone who actually has their bumper. I like the
> supposed ability of this unit to allow close-up spare storage by forgoing
> the gerry-can mount, but still allowing the full storage to be used if
> needed.
>
> I also don't know if there are other, possibly better, choices with these
> features.
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> PLM

J.P.

Whatever bumper you buy... Make sure that it mounts/bolts to the
FRAME, and not just the rear crossmember. The rear crossmember is too
weak to hold up a large spare tire. My bumper has pulled through the
crossmember already.

JP

Patrick Mills <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.12.31.18.15.15.623724@ix.netcom.com >...
> I'm looking for recommendations for a good rear bumper for an '04 TJ, and
> am wanting one that has as many of the following features as possible:
>
> 1) Swing-away carrier for up to 35" spare tire
> 2) Hi-lift jack mount
> 3) Gerry can storage
> 4) Mount point for CB antenna
> 5) Storage rack
> 6) Tow points
> 7) 2" Receiver hitch
>
> I have found the Bulletproof bumper website, and am considering their
> unit, but don't know anyone who actually has their bumper. I like the
> supposed ability of this unit to allow close-up spare storage by forgoing
> the gerry-can mount, but still allowing the full storage to be used if
> needed.
>
> I also don't know if there are other, possibly better, choices with these
> features.
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> PLM

Bob

Yep. That's the exact rear rack I have ('97 TJ). I thought it looked
awesome first time I saw it, both in the catalogs, and on a couple of
Jeeps here in the Denver area. So, I found one at "SportsRack"
(cheapest price, and local, so I didn't have to pay so much in
shipping), and installed it myself. I think it's a very good quality,
durable bumper. And in response to someone else's posting here, it
does have a couple of bracing reinforcements that bolt into the actual
frame, not just the rear crossmember. It supports my 33" tire like it
was nothing, and is advertised to handle up to 35" meats.

I would not recommend giving them the $75 for the axe/shovel mounts;
the tabs for those mounts are already built-in, and I very easily
fashioned my own mounts out of 2" corner brackets from the local
hardware store, and long bolts. I bent the brackets into the shape I
needed, spray painted them, and voila! $10 for brackets that looked
almost exactly like the $75 brackets from garvin.

The gerry can mounts are extra charges, also, as is the cargo rack.
Somewhat pricey ($75 each for the gerry mounts, not sure about the
rack), so I haven't gotten them yet. Still considering what it would
take to fashion my own (not to mention the fact I haven't seen a real
need for the gerry cans when fourwheeling yet).

On a sidenote, I thought I'd mention how this bumper holds up under an
actual vehicle impact. About a month after I installed it, a stupid
Dodge Ram 3500 Quad Cab pickup decided hit me from behind at a stop
light (Red means stop, dumbass!). He didn't hit me too terribly hard,
plus I let off the brakes just as he hit me to try to lessen the
impact jerk. Anyway, the bumper protected me well, but not perfectly.
The swingaway mount obviously bent in (the truck hit my tire before it
hit the actual bumper clevis mounts and hitch), although it DID spring
back out again, so you couldn't tell it had bent in, and in turn it
did bend in my tailgate somewhat badly (tailgate had to be replaced).
The points where the bumper mounted to the rear crossmember also
"punched in" (it got replaced as well) a bit, since the force was too
great to be sufficiently distributed by the bumper mounts. Even with
these problems, I think the bumper held up extremely well. I of course
made the guy's insurance replace it with a brand new unit, because I
was pissed my brand new, expensive bumper had just been slammed into.
In all reality, though, the mounts kept their shape about to within
95% of original, and the bumper and hinge functionality were still
working perfectly, from what I could tell. The fact that I was able to
drive home with only slight damage to the rear crossmember and bumper,
and a decently bunged-up tailgate, from an impact that would have
totalled the rear of a car, and would probably also have done far
worse impact to a stock jeep with a regular tailgate-mounted tire
carrier, makes me feel this bumper is pretty solid and stout. I'm not
saying this bumper can take any impact and just go away unscathed, but
it can absorb a pretty damn good one and stay in very good, working
shape. I give this bumper high marks for durability and impact
protection.

/Bob


Trevor <jeep@[SPAM]reactor.org> wrote in message news:<b4r8vv02059rikpqpc47i7frfseaarm2os@4ax.com>. ..
> I've also been thinking of a BP bumper such as the one shown here:
> http://www.bulletproofmfg.com/ricochet.htm
>
> I also got some information on Garvin's product:
> http://www.garvin-industries.com/wrangler_bsa.htm
>
> I like BP's warranty not to mention that I like buying from smaller
> companies, but I like that Garvin's receiver is welded inside the
> bumper itself (vs. on the bottom). Also, Garvin's is much less
> expensive than BP.
>
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Garvin's?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Trevor
>
>
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:13:12 -0600, Patrick Mills
> <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:52:23 -0800, jbjeep wrote:
> >
> >Thanks for your input, and Happy New Year! Comments inline...
> >
> >> I have the BP bumper setup. One thing I caution you on, do you really
> >> NEED to carry gas? I found that I use it about once every 2 years for
> >> one 5-7 day long off road trip
> >
> >Hmmm - that's what *I'm* planning on, too. We may be by ourselves for a
> >couple of days at a time, and I figured the water and gas would be handy
> >to have on-board, but I suppose there are other ways...
> >
> >> If you dont have the hi-lift mount you can tuck the tire way up tight.
> >> the gas can mounts dont take up much space.
> >
> >Yes - that's one of the features I liked, as well. In fact, this was also
> >one of the reasons I thought that my infrequent need to carry Gerry cans
> >was not a big deal with this bumper, since the tire can be mounted back in
> >close when you don't have the cans in place. What's your opinion about
> >this? I'm curious why you see the bumper as such a poor fit for your
> >needs, if there is not a disadvantage to not actually carrying the Gerry
> >cans. Do you object to the appearance without Gerry cans? Is it too
> >heavy?
> >
> >> Remember with a storage rack that that raises your center of gravity
> >> quickly when used.
> >
> >Yep - the outfitter I'm having build up the jeep cautioned against this
> >option for this very reason. However, I believe for my own type of use
> >that it won't be a big issue, and can run without the rack except for
> >those times it is really needed.
> >
> >> I run a Kilby gas tank skid and I had the shop who installed it cut a
> >> little bit off of the reciever hitch so that it didnt hit the gas tank
> >> skid. It is well made, it is strong, and it doesnt rattle much - when
> >> it does something is usually loose.
> >
> >The vehicle will be a Rubicon (want to buy a new Wrangler X? Can't believe
> >I'm already selling it...) with the factory skid plate. I don't know if
> >this one would have the same problem or not... If I decide to do the BP
> >bumper, I'll make sure and warn the installer to watch out for this.
> >
> >> Also, look at Younger Brothers bumpers. I am not sure what exactly they
> >> have out, but I have some friends with theirs and they like them a lot.
> >
> >Thanks for that tip. I had briefly seen their web page, but hadn't really
> >looked at their products. Seems like a viable alternative to the BP
> >bumper, and I'll definitely check them out. The lighting options for the
> >YB bumper are interesting...
> >
> >Thanks again for your post - happy new year.

Bob

Yep. That's the exact rear rack I have ('97 TJ). I thought it looked
awesome first time I saw it, both in the catalogs, and on a couple of
Jeeps here in the Denver area. So, I found one at "SportsRack"
(cheapest price, and local, so I didn't have to pay so much in
shipping), and installed it myself. I think it's a very good quality,
durable bumper. And in response to someone else's posting here, it
does have a couple of bracing reinforcements that bolt into the actual
frame, not just the rear crossmember. It supports my 33" tire like it
was nothing, and is advertised to handle up to 35" meats.

I would not recommend giving them the $75 for the axe/shovel mounts;
the tabs for those mounts are already built-in, and I very easily
fashioned my own mounts out of 2" corner brackets from the local
hardware store, and long bolts. I bent the brackets into the shape I
needed, spray painted them, and voila! $10 for brackets that looked
almost exactly like the $75 brackets from garvin.

The gerry can mounts are extra charges, also, as is the cargo rack.
Somewhat pricey ($75 each for the gerry mounts, not sure about the
rack), so I haven't gotten them yet. Still considering what it would
take to fashion my own (not to mention the fact I haven't seen a real
need for the gerry cans when fourwheeling yet).

On a sidenote, I thought I'd mention how this bumper holds up under an
actual vehicle impact. About a month after I installed it, a stupid
Dodge Ram 3500 Quad Cab pickup decided hit me from behind at a stop
light (Red means stop, dumbass!). He didn't hit me too terribly hard,
plus I let off the brakes just as he hit me to try to lessen the
impact jerk. Anyway, the bumper protected me well, but not perfectly.
The swingaway mount obviously bent in (the truck hit my tire before it
hit the actual bumper clevis mounts and hitch), although it DID spring
back out again, so you couldn't tell it had bent in, and in turn it
did bend in my tailgate somewhat badly (tailgate had to be replaced).
The points where the bumper mounted to the rear crossmember also
"punched in" (it got replaced as well) a bit, since the force was too
great to be sufficiently distributed by the bumper mounts. Even with
these problems, I think the bumper held up extremely well. I of course
made the guy's insurance replace it with a brand new unit, because I
was pissed my brand new, expensive bumper had just been slammed into.
In all reality, though, the mounts kept their shape about to within
95% of original, and the bumper and hinge functionality were still
working perfectly, from what I could tell. The fact that I was able to
drive home with only slight damage to the rear crossmember and bumper,
and a decently bunged-up tailgate, from an impact that would have
totalled the rear of a car, and would probably also have done far
worse impact to a stock jeep with a regular tailgate-mounted tire
carrier, makes me feel this bumper is pretty solid and stout. I'm not
saying this bumper can take any impact and just go away unscathed, but
it can absorb a pretty damn good one and stay in very good, working
shape. I give this bumper high marks for durability and impact
protection.

/Bob


Trevor <jeep@[SPAM]reactor.org> wrote in message news:<b4r8vv02059rikpqpc47i7frfseaarm2os@4ax.com>. ..
> I've also been thinking of a BP bumper such as the one shown here:
> http://www.bulletproofmfg.com/ricochet.htm
>
> I also got some information on Garvin's product:
> http://www.garvin-industries.com/wrangler_bsa.htm
>
> I like BP's warranty not to mention that I like buying from smaller
> companies, but I like that Garvin's receiver is welded inside the
> bumper itself (vs. on the bottom). Also, Garvin's is much less
> expensive than BP.
>
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Garvin's?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Trevor
>
>
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:13:12 -0600, Patrick Mills
> <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:52:23 -0800, jbjeep wrote:
> >
> >Thanks for your input, and Happy New Year! Comments inline...
> >
> >> I have the BP bumper setup. One thing I caution you on, do you really
> >> NEED to carry gas? I found that I use it about once every 2 years for
> >> one 5-7 day long off road trip
> >
> >Hmmm - that's what *I'm* planning on, too. We may be by ourselves for a
> >couple of days at a time, and I figured the water and gas would be handy
> >to have on-board, but I suppose there are other ways...
> >
> >> If you dont have the hi-lift mount you can tuck the tire way up tight.
> >> the gas can mounts dont take up much space.
> >
> >Yes - that's one of the features I liked, as well. In fact, this was also
> >one of the reasons I thought that my infrequent need to carry Gerry cans
> >was not a big deal with this bumper, since the tire can be mounted back in
> >close when you don't have the cans in place. What's your opinion about
> >this? I'm curious why you see the bumper as such a poor fit for your
> >needs, if there is not a disadvantage to not actually carrying the Gerry
> >cans. Do you object to the appearance without Gerry cans? Is it too
> >heavy?
> >
> >> Remember with a storage rack that that raises your center of gravity
> >> quickly when used.
> >
> >Yep - the outfitter I'm having build up the jeep cautioned against this
> >option for this very reason. However, I believe for my own type of use
> >that it won't be a big issue, and can run without the rack except for
> >those times it is really needed.
> >
> >> I run a Kilby gas tank skid and I had the shop who installed it cut a
> >> little bit off of the reciever hitch so that it didnt hit the gas tank
> >> skid. It is well made, it is strong, and it doesnt rattle much - when
> >> it does something is usually loose.
> >
> >The vehicle will be a Rubicon (want to buy a new Wrangler X? Can't believe
> >I'm already selling it...) with the factory skid plate. I don't know if
> >this one would have the same problem or not... If I decide to do the BP
> >bumper, I'll make sure and warn the installer to watch out for this.
> >
> >> Also, look at Younger Brothers bumpers. I am not sure what exactly they
> >> have out, but I have some friends with theirs and they like them a lot.
> >
> >Thanks for that tip. I had briefly seen their web page, but hadn't really
> >looked at their products. Seems like a viable alternative to the BP
> >bumper, and I'll definitely check them out. The lighting options for the
> >YB bumper are interesting...
> >
> >Thanks again for your post - happy new year.

Bob

Yep. That's the exact rear rack I have ('97 TJ). I thought it looked
awesome first time I saw it, both in the catalogs, and on a couple of
Jeeps here in the Denver area. So, I found one at "SportsRack"
(cheapest price, and local, so I didn't have to pay so much in
shipping), and installed it myself. I think it's a very good quality,
durable bumper. And in response to someone else's posting here, it
does have a couple of bracing reinforcements that bolt into the actual
frame, not just the rear crossmember. It supports my 33" tire like it
was nothing, and is advertised to handle up to 35" meats.

I would not recommend giving them the $75 for the axe/shovel mounts;
the tabs for those mounts are already built-in, and I very easily
fashioned my own mounts out of 2" corner brackets from the local
hardware store, and long bolts. I bent the brackets into the shape I
needed, spray painted them, and voila! $10 for brackets that looked
almost exactly like the $75 brackets from garvin.

The gerry can mounts are extra charges, also, as is the cargo rack.
Somewhat pricey ($75 each for the gerry mounts, not sure about the
rack), so I haven't gotten them yet. Still considering what it would
take to fashion my own (not to mention the fact I haven't seen a real
need for the gerry cans when fourwheeling yet).

On a sidenote, I thought I'd mention how this bumper holds up under an
actual vehicle impact. About a month after I installed it, a stupid
Dodge Ram 3500 Quad Cab pickup decided hit me from behind at a stop
light (Red means stop, dumbass!). He didn't hit me too terribly hard,
plus I let off the brakes just as he hit me to try to lessen the
impact jerk. Anyway, the bumper protected me well, but not perfectly.
The swingaway mount obviously bent in (the truck hit my tire before it
hit the actual bumper clevis mounts and hitch), although it DID spring
back out again, so you couldn't tell it had bent in, and in turn it
did bend in my tailgate somewhat badly (tailgate had to be replaced).
The points where the bumper mounted to the rear crossmember also
"punched in" (it got replaced as well) a bit, since the force was too
great to be sufficiently distributed by the bumper mounts. Even with
these problems, I think the bumper held up extremely well. I of course
made the guy's insurance replace it with a brand new unit, because I
was pissed my brand new, expensive bumper had just been slammed into.
In all reality, though, the mounts kept their shape about to within
95% of original, and the bumper and hinge functionality were still
working perfectly, from what I could tell. The fact that I was able to
drive home with only slight damage to the rear crossmember and bumper,
and a decently bunged-up tailgate, from an impact that would have
totalled the rear of a car, and would probably also have done far
worse impact to a stock jeep with a regular tailgate-mounted tire
carrier, makes me feel this bumper is pretty solid and stout. I'm not
saying this bumper can take any impact and just go away unscathed, but
it can absorb a pretty damn good one and stay in very good, working
shape. I give this bumper high marks for durability and impact
protection.

/Bob


Trevor <jeep@[SPAM]reactor.org> wrote in message news:<b4r8vv02059rikpqpc47i7frfseaarm2os@4ax.com>. ..
> I've also been thinking of a BP bumper such as the one shown here:
> http://www.bulletproofmfg.com/ricochet.htm
>
> I also got some information on Garvin's product:
> http://www.garvin-industries.com/wrangler_bsa.htm
>
> I like BP's warranty not to mention that I like buying from smaller
> companies, but I like that Garvin's receiver is welded inside the
> bumper itself (vs. on the bottom). Also, Garvin's is much less
> expensive than BP.
>
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Garvin's?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Trevor
>
>
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:13:12 -0600, Patrick Mills
> <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:52:23 -0800, jbjeep wrote:
> >
> >Thanks for your input, and Happy New Year! Comments inline...
> >
> >> I have the BP bumper setup. One thing I caution you on, do you really
> >> NEED to carry gas? I found that I use it about once every 2 years for
> >> one 5-7 day long off road trip
> >
> >Hmmm - that's what *I'm* planning on, too. We may be by ourselves for a
> >couple of days at a time, and I figured the water and gas would be handy
> >to have on-board, but I suppose there are other ways...
> >
> >> If you dont have the hi-lift mount you can tuck the tire way up tight.
> >> the gas can mounts dont take up much space.
> >
> >Yes - that's one of the features I liked, as well. In fact, this was also
> >one of the reasons I thought that my infrequent need to carry Gerry cans
> >was not a big deal with this bumper, since the tire can be mounted back in
> >close when you don't have the cans in place. What's your opinion about
> >this? I'm curious why you see the bumper as such a poor fit for your
> >needs, if there is not a disadvantage to not actually carrying the Gerry
> >cans. Do you object to the appearance without Gerry cans? Is it too
> >heavy?
> >
> >> Remember with a storage rack that that raises your center of gravity
> >> quickly when used.
> >
> >Yep - the outfitter I'm having build up the jeep cautioned against this
> >option for this very reason. However, I believe for my own type of use
> >that it won't be a big issue, and can run without the rack except for
> >those times it is really needed.
> >
> >> I run a Kilby gas tank skid and I had the shop who installed it cut a
> >> little bit off of the reciever hitch so that it didnt hit the gas tank
> >> skid. It is well made, it is strong, and it doesnt rattle much - when
> >> it does something is usually loose.
> >
> >The vehicle will be a Rubicon (want to buy a new Wrangler X? Can't believe
> >I'm already selling it...) with the factory skid plate. I don't know if
> >this one would have the same problem or not... If I decide to do the BP
> >bumper, I'll make sure and warn the installer to watch out for this.
> >
> >> Also, look at Younger Brothers bumpers. I am not sure what exactly they
> >> have out, but I have some friends with theirs and they like them a lot.
> >
> >Thanks for that tip. I had briefly seen their web page, but hadn't really
> >looked at their products. Seems like a viable alternative to the BP
> >bumper, and I'll definitely check them out. The lighting options for the
> >YB bumper are interesting...
> >
> >Thanks again for your post - happy new year.

Bob

One more thing about the garvin wilderness bumper...it mentions
"drilling required"--I didn't have to do any drilling. There are holes
it specifies don't exist in the rear crossmember, but my '97 Sahara
already had these holes predrilled. I don't know whether your Rubicon
would or wouldn't have these holes, though. If it does, and I recall
right, they would be a vertically oriented pair of holes on both ends
of the bumper, just 6 to 8 inches inside of, and matching with, the
two holes in the rear crossmember that your factory bumper bolts to.
(See ascii drawing below)

Additional holes for Garvin Bumper that may or may not be predrilled
on your rear crossmember ----------------
| |
V V
-----------------------------------------
| . . . . |
| . . . . |
-----------------------------------------
^ ^
| |
Stock Bumper Holes -------------------

Also, make sure not to get a tow package from the dealer; the bolt-in
points on this bumper will interfere with the trailer hitch that would
mount beneath the factory bumper (my jeep had a hitch already
installed that I had to remove when I installed this bumper, due to
this intereference in the mounting holes in the frame). You don't need
it anyway, since this bumper comes with a built-in 2" hitch.

Finally, with regard to the CB antenna: There is no built-in mounting
location for this, but I just used conduit/hose clamps to mount it to
the side of one of the vertical members on the swing-away square
tubing, and that is working great for me. I didn't have to drill into
my nice bumper, and I used some all-weather rubber gasketing to
protect the bumper's finish from the metal hose clamps.

/Bob


Ok, if anyone else ever wants info on bumper recommendations, they
will just have to do a google NG search if they want to see all this
crap written out again. I wrote a book here, and I ain't doin' it
again ;-). If I get the time and care enough, I might put it up on a
website one day. Yeah, right...I'm too lazy.


Trevor <jeep@[SPAM]reactor.org> wrote in message news:<b4r8vv02059rikpqpc47i7frfseaarm2os@4ax.com>. ..
> I've also been thinking of a BP bumper such as the one shown here:
> http://www.bulletproofmfg.com/ricochet.htm
>
> I also got some information on Garvin's product:
> http://www.garvin-industries.com/wrangler_bsa.htm
>
> I like BP's warranty not to mention that I like buying from smaller
> companies, but I like that Garvin's receiver is welded inside the
> bumper itself (vs. on the bottom). Also, Garvin's is much less
> expensive than BP.
>
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Garvin's?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Trevor
>
>
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:13:12 -0600, Patrick Mills
> <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:52:23 -0800, jbjeep wrote:
> >
> >Thanks for your input, and Happy New Year! Comments inline...
> >
> >> I have the BP bumper setup. One thing I caution you on, do you really
> >> NEED to carry gas? I found that I use it about once every 2 years for
> >> one 5-7 day long off road trip
> >
> >Hmmm - that's what *I'm* planning on, too. We may be by ourselves for a
> >couple of days at a time, and I figured the water and gas would be handy
> >to have on-board, but I suppose there are other ways...
> >
> >> If you dont have the hi-lift mount you can tuck the tire way up tight.
> >> the gas can mounts dont take up much space.
> >
> >Yes - that's one of the features I liked, as well. In fact, this was also
> >one of the reasons I thought that my infrequent need to carry Gerry cans
> >was not a big deal with this bumper, since the tire can be mounted back in
> >close when you don't have the cans in place. What's your opinion about
> >this? I'm curious why you see the bumper as such a poor fit for your
> >needs, if there is not a disadvantage to not actually carrying the Gerry
> >cans. Do you object to the appearance without Gerry cans? Is it too
> >heavy?
> >
> >> Remember with a storage rack that that raises your center of gravity
> >> quickly when used.
> >
> >Yep - the outfitter I'm having build up the jeep cautioned against this
> >option for this very reason. However, I believe for my own type of use
> >that it won't be a big issue, and can run without the rack except for
> >those times it is really needed.
> >
> >> I run a Kilby gas tank skid and I had the shop who installed it cut a
> >> little bit off of the reciever hitch so that it didnt hit the gas tank
> >> skid. It is well made, it is strong, and it doesnt rattle much - when
> >> it does something is usually loose.
> >
> >The vehicle will be a Rubicon (want to buy a new Wrangler X? Can't believe
> >I'm already selling it...) with the factory skid plate. I don't know if
> >this one would have the same problem or not... If I decide to do the BP
> >bumper, I'll make sure and warn the installer to watch out for this.
> >
> >> Also, look at Younger Brothers bumpers. I am not sure what exactly they
> >> have out, but I have some friends with theirs and they like them a lot.
> >
> >Thanks for that tip. I had briefly seen their web page, but hadn't really
> >looked at their products. Seems like a viable alternative to the BP
> >bumper, and I'll definitely check them out. The lighting options for the
> >YB bumper are interesting...
> >
> >Thanks again for your post - happy new year.

Bob

One more thing about the garvin wilderness bumper...it mentions
"drilling required"--I didn't have to do any drilling. There are holes
it specifies don't exist in the rear crossmember, but my '97 Sahara
already had these holes predrilled. I don't know whether your Rubicon
would or wouldn't have these holes, though. If it does, and I recall
right, they would be a vertically oriented pair of holes on both ends
of the bumper, just 6 to 8 inches inside of, and matching with, the
two holes in the rear crossmember that your factory bumper bolts to.
(See ascii drawing below)

Additional holes for Garvin Bumper that may or may not be predrilled
on your rear crossmember ----------------
| |
V V
-----------------------------------------
| . . . . |
| . . . . |
-----------------------------------------
^ ^
| |
Stock Bumper Holes -------------------

Also, make sure not to get a tow package from the dealer; the bolt-in
points on this bumper will interfere with the trailer hitch that would
mount beneath the factory bumper (my jeep had a hitch already
installed that I had to remove when I installed this bumper, due to
this intereference in the mounting holes in the frame). You don't need
it anyway, since this bumper comes with a built-in 2" hitch.

Finally, with regard to the CB antenna: There is no built-in mounting
location for this, but I just used conduit/hose clamps to mount it to
the side of one of the vertical members on the swing-away square
tubing, and that is working great for me. I didn't have to drill into
my nice bumper, and I used some all-weather rubber gasketing to
protect the bumper's finish from the metal hose clamps.

/Bob


Ok, if anyone else ever wants info on bumper recommendations, they
will just have to do a google NG search if they want to see all this
crap written out again. I wrote a book here, and I ain't doin' it
again ;-). If I get the time and care enough, I might put it up on a
website one day. Yeah, right...I'm too lazy.


Trevor <jeep@[SPAM]reactor.org> wrote in message news:<b4r8vv02059rikpqpc47i7frfseaarm2os@4ax.com>. ..
> I've also been thinking of a BP bumper such as the one shown here:
> http://www.bulletproofmfg.com/ricochet.htm
>
> I also got some information on Garvin's product:
> http://www.garvin-industries.com/wrangler_bsa.htm
>
> I like BP's warranty not to mention that I like buying from smaller
> companies, but I like that Garvin's receiver is welded inside the
> bumper itself (vs. on the bottom). Also, Garvin's is much less
> expensive than BP.
>
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Garvin's?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Trevor
>
>
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:13:12 -0600, Patrick Mills
> <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:52:23 -0800, jbjeep wrote:
> >
> >Thanks for your input, and Happy New Year! Comments inline...
> >
> >> I have the BP bumper setup. One thing I caution you on, do you really
> >> NEED to carry gas? I found that I use it about once every 2 years for
> >> one 5-7 day long off road trip
> >
> >Hmmm - that's what *I'm* planning on, too. We may be by ourselves for a
> >couple of days at a time, and I figured the water and gas would be handy
> >to have on-board, but I suppose there are other ways...
> >
> >> If you dont have the hi-lift mount you can tuck the tire way up tight.
> >> the gas can mounts dont take up much space.
> >
> >Yes - that's one of the features I liked, as well. In fact, this was also
> >one of the reasons I thought that my infrequent need to carry Gerry cans
> >was not a big deal with this bumper, since the tire can be mounted back in
> >close when you don't have the cans in place. What's your opinion about
> >this? I'm curious why you see the bumper as such a poor fit for your
> >needs, if there is not a disadvantage to not actually carrying the Gerry
> >cans. Do you object to the appearance without Gerry cans? Is it too
> >heavy?
> >
> >> Remember with a storage rack that that raises your center of gravity
> >> quickly when used.
> >
> >Yep - the outfitter I'm having build up the jeep cautioned against this
> >option for this very reason. However, I believe for my own type of use
> >that it won't be a big issue, and can run without the rack except for
> >those times it is really needed.
> >
> >> I run a Kilby gas tank skid and I had the shop who installed it cut a
> >> little bit off of the reciever hitch so that it didnt hit the gas tank
> >> skid. It is well made, it is strong, and it doesnt rattle much - when
> >> it does something is usually loose.
> >
> >The vehicle will be a Rubicon (want to buy a new Wrangler X? Can't believe
> >I'm already selling it...) with the factory skid plate. I don't know if
> >this one would have the same problem or not... If I decide to do the BP
> >bumper, I'll make sure and warn the installer to watch out for this.
> >
> >> Also, look at Younger Brothers bumpers. I am not sure what exactly they
> >> have out, but I have some friends with theirs and they like them a lot.
> >
> >Thanks for that tip. I had briefly seen their web page, but hadn't really
> >looked at their products. Seems like a viable alternative to the BP
> >bumper, and I'll definitely check them out. The lighting options for the
> >YB bumper are interesting...
> >
> >Thanks again for your post - happy new year.

Bob

One more thing about the garvin wilderness bumper...it mentions
"drilling required"--I didn't have to do any drilling. There are holes
it specifies don't exist in the rear crossmember, but my '97 Sahara
already had these holes predrilled. I don't know whether your Rubicon
would or wouldn't have these holes, though. If it does, and I recall
right, they would be a vertically oriented pair of holes on both ends
of the bumper, just 6 to 8 inches inside of, and matching with, the
two holes in the rear crossmember that your factory bumper bolts to.
(See ascii drawing below)

Additional holes for Garvin Bumper that may or may not be predrilled
on your rear crossmember ----------------
| |
V V
-----------------------------------------
| . . . . |
| . . . . |
-----------------------------------------
^ ^
| |
Stock Bumper Holes -------------------

Also, make sure not to get a tow package from the dealer; the bolt-in
points on this bumper will interfere with the trailer hitch that would
mount beneath the factory bumper (my jeep had a hitch already
installed that I had to remove when I installed this bumper, due to
this intereference in the mounting holes in the frame). You don't need
it anyway, since this bumper comes with a built-in 2" hitch.

Finally, with regard to the CB antenna: There is no built-in mounting
location for this, but I just used conduit/hose clamps to mount it to
the side of one of the vertical members on the swing-away square
tubing, and that is working great for me. I didn't have to drill into
my nice bumper, and I used some all-weather rubber gasketing to
protect the bumper's finish from the metal hose clamps.

/Bob


Ok, if anyone else ever wants info on bumper recommendations, they
will just have to do a google NG search if they want to see all this
crap written out again. I wrote a book here, and I ain't doin' it
again ;-). If I get the time and care enough, I might put it up on a
website one day. Yeah, right...I'm too lazy.


Trevor <jeep@[SPAM]reactor.org> wrote in message news:<b4r8vv02059rikpqpc47i7frfseaarm2os@4ax.com>. ..
> I've also been thinking of a BP bumper such as the one shown here:
> http://www.bulletproofmfg.com/ricochet.htm
>
> I also got some information on Garvin's product:
> http://www.garvin-industries.com/wrangler_bsa.htm
>
> I like BP's warranty not to mention that I like buying from smaller
> companies, but I like that Garvin's receiver is welded inside the
> bumper itself (vs. on the bottom). Also, Garvin's is much less
> expensive than BP.
>
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Garvin's?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Trevor
>
>
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:13:12 -0600, Patrick Mills
> <plm1954_R_E_M_O_V_E@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:52:23 -0800, jbjeep wrote:
> >
> >Thanks for your input, and Happy New Year! Comments inline...
> >
> >> I have the BP bumper setup. One thing I caution you on, do you really
> >> NEED to carry gas? I found that I use it about once every 2 years for
> >> one 5-7 day long off road trip
> >
> >Hmmm - that's what *I'm* planning on, too. We may be by ourselves for a
> >couple of days at a time, and I figured the water and gas would be handy
> >to have on-board, but I suppose there are other ways...
> >
> >> If you dont have the hi-lift mount you can tuck the tire way up tight.
> >> the gas can mounts dont take up much space.
> >
> >Yes - that's one of the features I liked, as well. In fact, this was also
> >one of the reasons I thought that my infrequent need to carry Gerry cans
> >was not a big deal with this bumper, since the tire can be mounted back in
> >close when you don't have the cans in place. What's your opinion about
> >this? I'm curious why you see the bumper as such a poor fit for your
> >needs, if there is not a disadvantage to not actually carrying the Gerry
> >cans. Do you object to the appearance without Gerry cans? Is it too
> >heavy?
> >
> >> Remember with a storage rack that that raises your center of gravity
> >> quickly when used.
> >
> >Yep - the outfitter I'm having build up the jeep cautioned against this
> >option for this very reason. However, I believe for my own type of use
> >that it won't be a big issue, and can run without the rack except for
> >those times it is really needed.
> >
> >> I run a Kilby gas tank skid and I had the shop who installed it cut a
> >> little bit off of the reciever hitch so that it didnt hit the gas tank
> >> skid. It is well made, it is strong, and it doesnt rattle much - when
> >> it does something is usually loose.
> >
> >The vehicle will be a Rubicon (want to buy a new Wrangler X? Can't believe
> >I'm already selling it...) with the factory skid plate. I don't know if
> >this one would have the same problem or not... If I decide to do the BP
> >bumper, I'll make sure and warn the installer to watch out for this.
> >
> >> Also, look at Younger Brothers bumpers. I am not sure what exactly they
> >> have out, but I have some friends with theirs and they like them a lot.
> >
> >Thanks for that tip. I had briefly seen their web page, but hadn't really
> >looked at their products. Seems like a viable alternative to the BP
> >bumper, and I'll definitely check them out. The lighting options for the
> >YB bumper are interesting...
> >
> >Thanks again for your post - happy new year.

Matt Macchiarolo

In article <b4r8vv02059rikpqpc47i7frfseaarm2os@4ax.com>, Trevor
<jeep@[SPAM]reactor.org> writes:

>Does anyone have firsthand experience with Garvin's?
>

I've had one for about 3 years now. I like it a lot, carrying a 33" tire. The
closing mechanism is a little awkward but it doesn't rattle. The carrier rests
against a rubber bumper mounted to the tailgate, and I've noticed that I've had
to adjust the bumper further out a little bit, I think the crossmember is
getting a little soft. However, with the tailgate open it doesn't rock any more
than the new one a friend of mine installed on his Rubicon, and his has the
frame supports on the sides of the frame. The Garvin bumper ties into the frame
on the bottom of the frame rails. Throw away the threaded insert things for the
inside bumper bracket bolts, drop the fuel tank and put real hardware in
there...the tank blocks access, hence the need for the "insert" which are just
threaded hex tubing with a handle welded on.

good luck

matt
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html