Ted Mittelstaedt

"TBone" <tboneNOSPAM@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:V8s8g.36018$Sa1.2335@tornado.southeast.rr.com ...
> "Earle Horton" <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:44620c3c$0$6046$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> > "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote in message
> > news:1147262595.009475.119880@j73g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > >
> > > HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> > > > "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1146913701.104320.70590@i40g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > ajcrm125 wrote:
> > > > > > http://www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I suspect the problem is not with ALL Phoenix Remanufactured
> > > > > Transmissiotn, but only the one that you happened to get. The
real
> > > > > issue is whether they were willing to make it right, and it would
> > > > > appear that they were. Looks like the problem is on your end.
> > > >
> > > > Everybody wants to save a buck, but sometimes our efforts end up
> > > > getting us deeper in the poop. These are hard lessons to be
learned.
> > >
> > > Not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you implying that
> > > Phoenix reman transmissions are of poor quality?
> > >
> > No, I believe that HLS@nospam.nix is saying, that there are reasons that
> "do
> > it yourself" is "usually" a way to save money. One reason is that the
diy
> > customer assumes more risk. You have a chance of getting a bum unit,
from
> > any vendor. For the do-it-yourselfer, this is a significant event and
an
> > enormous pain in the neck. For a commercial shop, they recognize that
it
> > happens once in a while, and deal with it.
> >
> > This is not to say that the ordinary customer cannot benefit from doing
> his
> > own work. What it does say, is that sooner or later, if you replace
> enough
> > parts, you are going to get a bad one, and it is not really anyone's
> fault.
> > If you cannot handle it, when this happens, either financially,
> emotionally,
> > or in terms of lost time, then have other people do your work for you.
>
>
> That is complete bull. While it can happen that you will get a bad part,
> there really is no excuse for two in a row. The fact that they are still
in
> business shows that they do not treat commercial shops that way and if
they
> send one a bad one, they make damn sure that the second one is ok. I
guess
> that they don't feel the need to back up the DIY'er that way. Thanks for
> the info however. At least I know who to avoid if and when I need to get
a
> rebuilt trans.
>

Phoenix does a huge amount of advertising on Ebay and correct me if I'm
wrong but I don't think many commercial garages spend a lot of time trolling
Ebay for parts. Also if you read Phoenix's website you will see that they
go out of their way to make it easy for DIYers to buy their transmissions.

There really is, I think, two ways to look at it. I once had a conversation
with
the sales manager for Arizona Mobile Air, Inc. (www.ackits.com) I had
bought a compressor from them. (Top notch company, by the way) They
cater to the DIYers and to the commercial garages. I asked him if they got
more returns from DIYers or commercial garages. He said overwhelmingly
the commercial garages. The Diyers follow all instructions to a T and are
usually very careful when installing parts, they will flush the system per
the
instructions and so forth. The commercial garages will take shortcuts and
not follow instructions. He said that far and away the DIYers were more
profitable for them and less of a headache. That wasn't to say they never
had
problems with DIYers, they did, but that they had more from commercial
garages.

By the way, the compressor I got from them did work and lasted until the
car threw a rod a year later.

It may be that Phoenix knows this also and that is why they cater to the DIY
market. But OTOH it may be that they know that the DIY market is less
likely to fight back and is easier to screw over.

But the other thing about this story that I keep coming back to is that
there's
transmission rebuilders everywhere, every major city has many of them. The
simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions would seem to me
to
pretty strongly convince most people to buy local. Not only that but
there's the
local economy to think of as well - wouldn't you rather spend your money
keeping
some local businesses doors open, than sending it out across country?

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt

"TBone" <tboneNOSPAM@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:V8s8g.36018$Sa1.2335@tornado.southeast.rr.com ...
> "Earle Horton" <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:44620c3c$0$6046$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> > "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote in message
> > news:1147262595.009475.119880@j73g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > >
> > > HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> > > > "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1146913701.104320.70590@i40g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > ajcrm125 wrote:
> > > > > > http://www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I suspect the problem is not with ALL Phoenix Remanufactured
> > > > > Transmissiotn, but only the one that you happened to get. The
real
> > > > > issue is whether they were willing to make it right, and it would
> > > > > appear that they were. Looks like the problem is on your end.
> > > >
> > > > Everybody wants to save a buck, but sometimes our efforts end up
> > > > getting us deeper in the poop. These are hard lessons to be
learned.
> > >
> > > Not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you implying that
> > > Phoenix reman transmissions are of poor quality?
> > >
> > No, I believe that HLS@nospam.nix is saying, that there are reasons that
> "do
> > it yourself" is "usually" a way to save money. One reason is that the
diy
> > customer assumes more risk. You have a chance of getting a bum unit,
from
> > any vendor. For the do-it-yourselfer, this is a significant event and
an
> > enormous pain in the neck. For a commercial shop, they recognize that
it
> > happens once in a while, and deal with it.
> >
> > This is not to say that the ordinary customer cannot benefit from doing
> his
> > own work. What it does say, is that sooner or later, if you replace
> enough
> > parts, you are going to get a bad one, and it is not really anyone's
> fault.
> > If you cannot handle it, when this happens, either financially,
> emotionally,
> > or in terms of lost time, then have other people do your work for you.
>
>
> That is complete bull. While it can happen that you will get a bad part,
> there really is no excuse for two in a row. The fact that they are still
in
> business shows that they do not treat commercial shops that way and if
they
> send one a bad one, they make damn sure that the second one is ok. I
guess
> that they don't feel the need to back up the DIY'er that way. Thanks for
> the info however. At least I know who to avoid if and when I need to get
a
> rebuilt trans.
>

Phoenix does a huge amount of advertising on Ebay and correct me if I'm
wrong but I don't think many commercial garages spend a lot of time trolling
Ebay for parts. Also if you read Phoenix's website you will see that they
go out of their way to make it easy for DIYers to buy their transmissions.

There really is, I think, two ways to look at it. I once had a conversation
with
the sales manager for Arizona Mobile Air, Inc. (www.ackits.com) I had
bought a compressor from them. (Top notch company, by the way) They
cater to the DIYers and to the commercial garages. I asked him if they got
more returns from DIYers or commercial garages. He said overwhelmingly
the commercial garages. The Diyers follow all instructions to a T and are
usually very careful when installing parts, they will flush the system per
the
instructions and so forth. The commercial garages will take shortcuts and
not follow instructions. He said that far and away the DIYers were more
profitable for them and less of a headache. That wasn't to say they never
had
problems with DIYers, they did, but that they had more from commercial
garages.

By the way, the compressor I got from them did work and lasted until the
car threw a rod a year later.

It may be that Phoenix knows this also and that is why they cater to the DIY
market. But OTOH it may be that they know that the DIY market is less
likely to fight back and is easier to screw over.

But the other thing about this story that I keep coming back to is that
there's
transmission rebuilders everywhere, every major city has many of them. The
simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions would seem to me
to
pretty strongly convince most people to buy local. Not only that but
there's the
local economy to think of as well - wouldn't you rather spend your money
keeping
some local businesses doors open, than sending it out across country?

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt

"TBone" <tboneNOSPAM@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:V8s8g.36018$Sa1.2335@tornado.southeast.rr.com ...
> "Earle Horton" <NurseBustersNoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:44620c3c$0$6046$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> > "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote in message
> > news:1147262595.009475.119880@j73g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > >
> > > HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> > > > "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1146913701.104320.70590@i40g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > ajcrm125 wrote:
> > > > > > http://www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I suspect the problem is not with ALL Phoenix Remanufactured
> > > > > Transmissiotn, but only the one that you happened to get. The
real
> > > > > issue is whether they were willing to make it right, and it would
> > > > > appear that they were. Looks like the problem is on your end.
> > > >
> > > > Everybody wants to save a buck, but sometimes our efforts end up
> > > > getting us deeper in the poop. These are hard lessons to be
learned.
> > >
> > > Not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you implying that
> > > Phoenix reman transmissions are of poor quality?
> > >
> > No, I believe that HLS@nospam.nix is saying, that there are reasons that
> "do
> > it yourself" is "usually" a way to save money. One reason is that the
diy
> > customer assumes more risk. You have a chance of getting a bum unit,
from
> > any vendor. For the do-it-yourselfer, this is a significant event and
an
> > enormous pain in the neck. For a commercial shop, they recognize that
it
> > happens once in a while, and deal with it.
> >
> > This is not to say that the ordinary customer cannot benefit from doing
> his
> > own work. What it does say, is that sooner or later, if you replace
> enough
> > parts, you are going to get a bad one, and it is not really anyone's
> fault.
> > If you cannot handle it, when this happens, either financially,
> emotionally,
> > or in terms of lost time, then have other people do your work for you.
>
>
> That is complete bull. While it can happen that you will get a bad part,
> there really is no excuse for two in a row. The fact that they are still
in
> business shows that they do not treat commercial shops that way and if
they
> send one a bad one, they make damn sure that the second one is ok. I
guess
> that they don't feel the need to back up the DIY'er that way. Thanks for
> the info however. At least I know who to avoid if and when I need to get
a
> rebuilt trans.
>

Phoenix does a huge amount of advertising on Ebay and correct me if I'm
wrong but I don't think many commercial garages spend a lot of time trolling
Ebay for parts. Also if you read Phoenix's website you will see that they
go out of their way to make it easy for DIYers to buy their transmissions.

There really is, I think, two ways to look at it. I once had a conversation
with
the sales manager for Arizona Mobile Air, Inc. (www.ackits.com) I had
bought a compressor from them. (Top notch company, by the way) They
cater to the DIYers and to the commercial garages. I asked him if they got
more returns from DIYers or commercial garages. He said overwhelmingly
the commercial garages. The Diyers follow all instructions to a T and are
usually very careful when installing parts, they will flush the system per
the
instructions and so forth. The commercial garages will take shortcuts and
not follow instructions. He said that far and away the DIYers were more
profitable for them and less of a headache. That wasn't to say they never
had
problems with DIYers, they did, but that they had more from commercial
garages.

By the way, the compressor I got from them did work and lasted until the
car threw a rod a year later.

It may be that Phoenix knows this also and that is why they cater to the DIY
market. But OTOH it may be that they know that the DIY market is less
likely to fight back and is easier to screw over.

But the other thing about this story that I keep coming back to is that
there's
transmission rebuilders everywhere, every major city has many of them. The
simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions would seem to me
to
pretty strongly convince most people to buy local. Not only that but
there's the
local economy to think of as well - wouldn't you rather spend your money
keeping
some local businesses doors open, than sending it out across country?

Ted

Earle Horton

Didn't want Bill to report me for cross posting. :^)

Last time I bought an AC compressor, it was for me, and I didn't want to
have to fool with it for a few years. I bought a new one, from a local
vendor. Last time I bought an engine, thank God it was a GM, I bought a new
one. I don't know what a new Jeep engine costs, and I don't think I want to
find out. The point is that the compressor and the Chevy V8 weren't that
much more than locally rebuilt, and well worth the extra peace of mind I got
with the deal.

But if you want rebuilt, I agree with Ted. Another point is that a local
rebuilder is more likely to be accountable, and if not there is always small
claims court. But find out their reputation first, and avoid
unpleasantness.

Earle

"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$bsn6zi$3kv1$1@news.ipinc.net...
---snippy---
> But the other thing about this story that I keep coming back to is that
> there's transmission rebuilders everywhere, every major city has many
> of them. The simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions
> would seem to me to pretty strongly convince most people to buy local.
> Not only that but there's the local economy to think of as well - wouldn't
> you rather spend your money keeping some local businesses doors open,
> than sending it out across country?
>
> Ted
>
>

Earle Horton

Didn't want Bill to report me for cross posting. :^)

Last time I bought an AC compressor, it was for me, and I didn't want to
have to fool with it for a few years. I bought a new one, from a local
vendor. Last time I bought an engine, thank God it was a GM, I bought a new
one. I don't know what a new Jeep engine costs, and I don't think I want to
find out. The point is that the compressor and the Chevy V8 weren't that
much more than locally rebuilt, and well worth the extra peace of mind I got
with the deal.

But if you want rebuilt, I agree with Ted. Another point is that a local
rebuilder is more likely to be accountable, and if not there is always small
claims court. But find out their reputation first, and avoid
unpleasantness.

Earle

"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$bsn6zi$3kv1$1@news.ipinc.net...
---snippy---
> But the other thing about this story that I keep coming back to is that
> there's transmission rebuilders everywhere, every major city has many
> of them. The simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions
> would seem to me to pretty strongly convince most people to buy local.
> Not only that but there's the local economy to think of as well - wouldn't
> you rather spend your money keeping some local businesses doors open,
> than sending it out across country?
>
> Ted
>
>

Earle Horton

Didn't want Bill to report me for cross posting. :^)

Last time I bought an AC compressor, it was for me, and I didn't want to
have to fool with it for a few years. I bought a new one, from a local
vendor. Last time I bought an engine, thank God it was a GM, I bought a new
one. I don't know what a new Jeep engine costs, and I don't think I want to
find out. The point is that the compressor and the Chevy V8 weren't that
much more than locally rebuilt, and well worth the extra peace of mind I got
with the deal.

But if you want rebuilt, I agree with Ted. Another point is that a local
rebuilder is more likely to be accountable, and if not there is always small
claims court. But find out their reputation first, and avoid
unpleasantness.

Earle

"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$bsn6zi$3kv1$1@news.ipinc.net...
---snippy---
> But the other thing about this story that I keep coming back to is that
> there's transmission rebuilders everywhere, every major city has many
> of them. The simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions
> would seem to me to pretty strongly convince most people to buy local.
> Not only that but there's the local economy to think of as well - wouldn't
> you rather spend your money keeping some local businesses doors open,
> than sending it out across country?
>
> Ted
>
>

Nate Nagel

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> But the other thing about this story that I keep coming back to is that
> there's
> transmission rebuilders everywhere, every major city has many of them. The
> simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions would seem to me
> to
> pretty strongly convince most people to buy local. Not only that but
> there's the
> local economy to think of as well - wouldn't you rather spend your money
> keeping
> some local businesses doors open, than sending it out across country?
>

My "local" guy is useless to me, just called him up last week asking for
a price on a refresh for a '63 Studebaker Flightomatic, he said "can't
help you, I can't get parts for it." Now I know that's not true, but
I'm not about to argue with a guy who's already decided he doesn't want
to work for me. Even if he does grudgingly do the work after I "find"
(after an exhausting 5-minute web search) a kit for it, it's not going
to be because he wants to, because he clearly doesn't. Also for many
people their "local" shop is an AAMCO or Cottman franchise, I've heard
enough horror stories that I wouldn't want to go there either.

One of these days I will have to teach myself how to work on auto
transmissions...

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Nate Nagel

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> But the other thing about this story that I keep coming back to is that
> there's
> transmission rebuilders everywhere, every major city has many of them. The
> simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions would seem to me
> to
> pretty strongly convince most people to buy local. Not only that but
> there's the
> local economy to think of as well - wouldn't you rather spend your money
> keeping
> some local businesses doors open, than sending it out across country?
>

My "local" guy is useless to me, just called him up last week asking for
a price on a refresh for a '63 Studebaker Flightomatic, he said "can't
help you, I can't get parts for it." Now I know that's not true, but
I'm not about to argue with a guy who's already decided he doesn't want
to work for me. Even if he does grudgingly do the work after I "find"
(after an exhausting 5-minute web search) a kit for it, it's not going
to be because he wants to, because he clearly doesn't. Also for many
people their "local" shop is an AAMCO or Cottman franchise, I've heard
enough horror stories that I wouldn't want to go there either.

One of these days I will have to teach myself how to work on auto
transmissions...

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Nate Nagel

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> But the other thing about this story that I keep coming back to is that
> there's
> transmission rebuilders everywhere, every major city has many of them. The
> simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions would seem to me
> to
> pretty strongly convince most people to buy local. Not only that but
> there's the
> local economy to think of as well - wouldn't you rather spend your money
> keeping
> some local businesses doors open, than sending it out across country?
>

My "local" guy is useless to me, just called him up last week asking for
a price on a refresh for a '63 Studebaker Flightomatic, he said "can't
help you, I can't get parts for it." Now I know that's not true, but
I'm not about to argue with a guy who's already decided he doesn't want
to work for me. Even if he does grudgingly do the work after I "find"
(after an exhausting 5-minute web search) a kit for it, it's not going
to be because he wants to, because he clearly doesn't. Also for many
people their "local" shop is an AAMCO or Cottman franchise, I've heard
enough horror stories that I wouldn't want to go there either.

One of these days I will have to teach myself how to work on auto
transmissions...

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

DougW

Nate Nagel did pass the time by typing:

> My "local" guy is useless to me, just called him up last week asking for
> a price on a refresh for a '63 Studebaker Flightomatic, he said "can't
> help you, I can't get parts for it." Now I know that's not true, but
> I'm not about to argue with a guy who's already decided he doesn't want
> to work for me.

What a lot of these so called "big box" transmission shops don't tell you
is that they outsource the real work or simply do transmission swaps then
send your unit in to be referbished in a factory somewhere and put back on
the rack.

One of my friends asked me if $1200 to repair a turbo hydromatic 350
was a good price. Damn near crapped my drawers laughing.

The TH-350 is only one of the least complicated and longest production
run transmissions in history. $300 is what a good rebuild should cost.


--
DougW