Unlimited 4 door
11-15-2006, 05:53 PM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
I took one for a test drive.
Was an automatic. Interior wise its not bad. Updated but still some
utility.
One thing with it is I found the seats to be positioned to close to the
doors. I'm not a very big person but I felt very crowded up against
the doors.
Ride was pretty good with very little road noise heard from the 32"
MTR's.
Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
Around the city it was okay, but as soon as I hit the highway and was
trying to even get to 110kph it was painful. They really need to offer
a bigger engine for the extra size of the vehicle.
Rearward visibility between the rear seat headrests, the spare tire,
and the wiper motor was quite terrible. You end up having the top
passenger side of the rear glass to see out of.
I was extremely turned off by motor performance and sound. A Wrangler
shouldn't drive and sound like a minivan. With the 6 speed this may be
less of a problem. I am going to get back and try one with a 6spd when
I get a chance.
Overall it was only mediocre. Has some really nice off the lot
features, but the added down falls push me towards a different 4x4. For
the time being, I'll just keep my YJ.
JimG wrote:
> Unlimited Rubicon to be specific. Anyone tried one of these yet? How do
> they ride? Do they approach (mind you I say "approach") the ride of a....
> say Tahoe?
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI
> 4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R
> 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
> D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA
> Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries
>
> 00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp
> 4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear
> 33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys
> D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift
> Warn X8000i
Was an automatic. Interior wise its not bad. Updated but still some
utility.
One thing with it is I found the seats to be positioned to close to the
doors. I'm not a very big person but I felt very crowded up against
the doors.
Ride was pretty good with very little road noise heard from the 32"
MTR's.
Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
Around the city it was okay, but as soon as I hit the highway and was
trying to even get to 110kph it was painful. They really need to offer
a bigger engine for the extra size of the vehicle.
Rearward visibility between the rear seat headrests, the spare tire,
and the wiper motor was quite terrible. You end up having the top
passenger side of the rear glass to see out of.
I was extremely turned off by motor performance and sound. A Wrangler
shouldn't drive and sound like a minivan. With the 6 speed this may be
less of a problem. I am going to get back and try one with a 6spd when
I get a chance.
Overall it was only mediocre. Has some really nice off the lot
features, but the added down falls push me towards a different 4x4. For
the time being, I'll just keep my YJ.
JimG wrote:
> Unlimited Rubicon to be specific. Anyone tried one of these yet? How do
> they ride? Do they approach (mind you I say "approach") the ride of a....
> say Tahoe?
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI
> 4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R
> 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
> D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA
> Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries
>
> 00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp
> 4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear
> 33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys
> D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift
> Warn X8000i
11-15-2006, 05:53 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
I took one for a test drive.
Was an automatic. Interior wise its not bad. Updated but still some
utility.
One thing with it is I found the seats to be positioned to close to the
doors. I'm not a very big person but I felt very crowded up against
the doors.
Ride was pretty good with very little road noise heard from the 32"
MTR's.
Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
Around the city it was okay, but as soon as I hit the highway and was
trying to even get to 110kph it was painful. They really need to offer
a bigger engine for the extra size of the vehicle.
Rearward visibility between the rear seat headrests, the spare tire,
and the wiper motor was quite terrible. You end up having the top
passenger side of the rear glass to see out of.
I was extremely turned off by motor performance and sound. A Wrangler
shouldn't drive and sound like a minivan. With the 6 speed this may be
less of a problem. I am going to get back and try one with a 6spd when
I get a chance.
Overall it was only mediocre. Has some really nice off the lot
features, but the added down falls push me towards a different 4x4. For
the time being, I'll just keep my YJ.
JimG wrote:
> Unlimited Rubicon to be specific. Anyone tried one of these yet? How do
> they ride? Do they approach (mind you I say "approach") the ride of a....
> say Tahoe?
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI
> 4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R
> 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
> D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA
> Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries
>
> 00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp
> 4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear
> 33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys
> D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift
> Warn X8000i
Was an automatic. Interior wise its not bad. Updated but still some
utility.
One thing with it is I found the seats to be positioned to close to the
doors. I'm not a very big person but I felt very crowded up against
the doors.
Ride was pretty good with very little road noise heard from the 32"
MTR's.
Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
Around the city it was okay, but as soon as I hit the highway and was
trying to even get to 110kph it was painful. They really need to offer
a bigger engine for the extra size of the vehicle.
Rearward visibility between the rear seat headrests, the spare tire,
and the wiper motor was quite terrible. You end up having the top
passenger side of the rear glass to see out of.
I was extremely turned off by motor performance and sound. A Wrangler
shouldn't drive and sound like a minivan. With the 6 speed this may be
less of a problem. I am going to get back and try one with a 6spd when
I get a chance.
Overall it was only mediocre. Has some really nice off the lot
features, but the added down falls push me towards a different 4x4. For
the time being, I'll just keep my YJ.
JimG wrote:
> Unlimited Rubicon to be specific. Anyone tried one of these yet? How do
> they ride? Do they approach (mind you I say "approach") the ride of a....
> say Tahoe?
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI
> 4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R
> 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
> D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA
> Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries
>
> 00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp
> 4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear
> 33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys
> D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift
> Warn X8000i
11-15-2006, 06:33 PM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in
my lifetime.
Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
and you shoot yourself in the foot.
A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could
have ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier
than the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in
my lifetime.
Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
and you shoot yourself in the foot.
A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could
have ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier
than the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
11-15-2006, 06:33 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in
my lifetime.
Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
and you shoot yourself in the foot.
A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could
have ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier
than the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in
my lifetime.
Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
and you shoot yourself in the foot.
A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could
have ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier
than the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
11-15-2006, 06:33 PM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in
my lifetime.
Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
and you shoot yourself in the foot.
A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could
have ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier
than the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in
my lifetime.
Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
and you shoot yourself in the foot.
A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could
have ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier
than the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
11-15-2006, 07:00 PM
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
Phoenix Engines: Chrysler - Mercedes V6 Engines for 2010 and Beyond
The Phoenix engines were first discussed by "superduckie" way back in March
2006. "ask1919" wrote in April, "Phoenix will be a collection of V6 engines
to replace the whole line." oh20, whose track record has been 100% accurate
on such breakthroughs as the Caliber and Sebring, wrote in July that the
engines would include:
a.. 1... 3.0L V6 base Phoenix (next gen LX, J1, L2, R2)
b.. 2... 3.0L V6 premium Phoenix (L2)
c.. 3... 3.3L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen RT
Minivan)
d.. 4... 3.3L V6 premium Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen
RT Minivan)
e.. 5... 3.6L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, current and
next gen KA Nitro, next gen KK Liberty, next gen RT minivan, next gen LX,
Grand Cherokee current and next gen, next gen Commander)
f.. 6... 3.6L V6 HEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
g.. 7... 3.6L V6 premium Phoenix Engine (current and next gen LX, next gen
RT minivan)
h.. 8... 3.6L V6 PZEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
i.. 9... 4.0 V6 base Phoenix (next gen Pacifica, next gen NE Dakota, next
gen Ram, next gen KK Liberty, current and next gen KA Nitro, next gen LX,
next gen Grand Cherokee, next gen Commander, next gen JL Wrangler)
j.. 10... 4.0 V6 premium Phoenix (vehicles unknown)
Apparently the design is advanced enough that the oil pan is being subbed
out: "Oil pan for a Phoenix Engine from Chrysler had some very odd oil
diverters...nothing I've seen before."
The new Phoenix line of V-6 engines will debut for model-year 2010 vehicles,
which is to say, probably in the year 2009. Chrysler has announced details,
including the investment in plants ($2 billion, not including engineering of
the engines themselves) and the fact that Mercedes will share the basic
engine architecture. The Phoenix engines, long discussed on Allpar's news
and rumors forum, will be made in Kenosha, Wisconsin and Trenton, Michigan
(with parts machined in Toledo, Ohio), as well as in Germany for Mercedes.
Allpar at least is happy that development of these engines appears to be
centered in the US though no doubt Mercedes will get most of the credit for
their success.
The old Trenton Engine plant will close in 2014; the new Trenton Engine
plant, if one is indeed built within Trenton, will cost $800 million and
open in time for the 2010 model year, with groundbreaking scheduled for or
before November 1, 2006.
At the latest, the current V6 engines (dating back to around 1990 but with
strong reliability and nice power/economy) will be phased out in 2013 and
the 3.8 and 4.0 V6 should finished by 2014.
Dieter Zetsche, DCX and Mercedes CEO, said the new engine family would
operate on a modular base, reducing the corporation's V6 engine families to
one (from five - four at Chrysler and one at Mercedes). The World Engine
experience may provide some illustration of how that will be done, though
hopefully the Phoenix will prove to be quieter and less peaky. The world's
best V6 engines are being benchmarked; and Mercedes has a camless design
that may be integrated into Auburn Hills' work, since Zetsche is determined
that all corporate divisions share technology as needed.
The engines will, not surprisingly, be built on flexible assembly lines that
will allow the mix to be changed quickly and easily, to adjust to market
demands.
Plants will switch to new job rules that include 10 hour four-day work weeks
and a much smaller number of job classifications (two). Production will
begin for the 2010 model year, with final phaseout of the existing Chrysler
V6 engines in calendar-year 2012.
Mercedes versions will most likely have more expensive features such as
direct injection.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>
The Phoenix engines were first discussed by "superduckie" way back in March
2006. "ask1919" wrote in April, "Phoenix will be a collection of V6 engines
to replace the whole line." oh20, whose track record has been 100% accurate
on such breakthroughs as the Caliber and Sebring, wrote in July that the
engines would include:
a.. 1... 3.0L V6 base Phoenix (next gen LX, J1, L2, R2)
b.. 2... 3.0L V6 premium Phoenix (L2)
c.. 3... 3.3L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen RT
Minivan)
d.. 4... 3.3L V6 premium Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen
RT Minivan)
e.. 5... 3.6L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, current and
next gen KA Nitro, next gen KK Liberty, next gen RT minivan, next gen LX,
Grand Cherokee current and next gen, next gen Commander)
f.. 6... 3.6L V6 HEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
g.. 7... 3.6L V6 premium Phoenix Engine (current and next gen LX, next gen
RT minivan)
h.. 8... 3.6L V6 PZEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
i.. 9... 4.0 V6 base Phoenix (next gen Pacifica, next gen NE Dakota, next
gen Ram, next gen KK Liberty, current and next gen KA Nitro, next gen LX,
next gen Grand Cherokee, next gen Commander, next gen JL Wrangler)
j.. 10... 4.0 V6 premium Phoenix (vehicles unknown)
Apparently the design is advanced enough that the oil pan is being subbed
out: "Oil pan for a Phoenix Engine from Chrysler had some very odd oil
diverters...nothing I've seen before."
The new Phoenix line of V-6 engines will debut for model-year 2010 vehicles,
which is to say, probably in the year 2009. Chrysler has announced details,
including the investment in plants ($2 billion, not including engineering of
the engines themselves) and the fact that Mercedes will share the basic
engine architecture. The Phoenix engines, long discussed on Allpar's news
and rumors forum, will be made in Kenosha, Wisconsin and Trenton, Michigan
(with parts machined in Toledo, Ohio), as well as in Germany for Mercedes.
Allpar at least is happy that development of these engines appears to be
centered in the US though no doubt Mercedes will get most of the credit for
their success.
The old Trenton Engine plant will close in 2014; the new Trenton Engine
plant, if one is indeed built within Trenton, will cost $800 million and
open in time for the 2010 model year, with groundbreaking scheduled for or
before November 1, 2006.
At the latest, the current V6 engines (dating back to around 1990 but with
strong reliability and nice power/economy) will be phased out in 2013 and
the 3.8 and 4.0 V6 should finished by 2014.
Dieter Zetsche, DCX and Mercedes CEO, said the new engine family would
operate on a modular base, reducing the corporation's V6 engine families to
one (from five - four at Chrysler and one at Mercedes). The World Engine
experience may provide some illustration of how that will be done, though
hopefully the Phoenix will prove to be quieter and less peaky. The world's
best V6 engines are being benchmarked; and Mercedes has a camless design
that may be integrated into Auburn Hills' work, since Zetsche is determined
that all corporate divisions share technology as needed.
The engines will, not surprisingly, be built on flexible assembly lines that
will allow the mix to be changed quickly and easily, to adjust to market
demands.
Plants will switch to new job rules that include 10 hour four-day work weeks
and a much smaller number of job classifications (two). Production will
begin for the 2010 model year, with final phaseout of the existing Chrysler
V6 engines in calendar-year 2012.
Mercedes versions will most likely have more expensive features such as
direct injection.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>
11-15-2006, 07:00 PM
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
Phoenix Engines: Chrysler - Mercedes V6 Engines for 2010 and Beyond
The Phoenix engines were first discussed by "superduckie" way back in March
2006. "ask1919" wrote in April, "Phoenix will be a collection of V6 engines
to replace the whole line." oh20, whose track record has been 100% accurate
on such breakthroughs as the Caliber and Sebring, wrote in July that the
engines would include:
a.. 1... 3.0L V6 base Phoenix (next gen LX, J1, L2, R2)
b.. 2... 3.0L V6 premium Phoenix (L2)
c.. 3... 3.3L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen RT
Minivan)
d.. 4... 3.3L V6 premium Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen
RT Minivan)
e.. 5... 3.6L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, current and
next gen KA Nitro, next gen KK Liberty, next gen RT minivan, next gen LX,
Grand Cherokee current and next gen, next gen Commander)
f.. 6... 3.6L V6 HEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
g.. 7... 3.6L V6 premium Phoenix Engine (current and next gen LX, next gen
RT minivan)
h.. 8... 3.6L V6 PZEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
i.. 9... 4.0 V6 base Phoenix (next gen Pacifica, next gen NE Dakota, next
gen Ram, next gen KK Liberty, current and next gen KA Nitro, next gen LX,
next gen Grand Cherokee, next gen Commander, next gen JL Wrangler)
j.. 10... 4.0 V6 premium Phoenix (vehicles unknown)
Apparently the design is advanced enough that the oil pan is being subbed
out: "Oil pan for a Phoenix Engine from Chrysler had some very odd oil
diverters...nothing I've seen before."
The new Phoenix line of V-6 engines will debut for model-year 2010 vehicles,
which is to say, probably in the year 2009. Chrysler has announced details,
including the investment in plants ($2 billion, not including engineering of
the engines themselves) and the fact that Mercedes will share the basic
engine architecture. The Phoenix engines, long discussed on Allpar's news
and rumors forum, will be made in Kenosha, Wisconsin and Trenton, Michigan
(with parts machined in Toledo, Ohio), as well as in Germany for Mercedes.
Allpar at least is happy that development of these engines appears to be
centered in the US though no doubt Mercedes will get most of the credit for
their success.
The old Trenton Engine plant will close in 2014; the new Trenton Engine
plant, if one is indeed built within Trenton, will cost $800 million and
open in time for the 2010 model year, with groundbreaking scheduled for or
before November 1, 2006.
At the latest, the current V6 engines (dating back to around 1990 but with
strong reliability and nice power/economy) will be phased out in 2013 and
the 3.8 and 4.0 V6 should finished by 2014.
Dieter Zetsche, DCX and Mercedes CEO, said the new engine family would
operate on a modular base, reducing the corporation's V6 engine families to
one (from five - four at Chrysler and one at Mercedes). The World Engine
experience may provide some illustration of how that will be done, though
hopefully the Phoenix will prove to be quieter and less peaky. The world's
best V6 engines are being benchmarked; and Mercedes has a camless design
that may be integrated into Auburn Hills' work, since Zetsche is determined
that all corporate divisions share technology as needed.
The engines will, not surprisingly, be built on flexible assembly lines that
will allow the mix to be changed quickly and easily, to adjust to market
demands.
Plants will switch to new job rules that include 10 hour four-day work weeks
and a much smaller number of job classifications (two). Production will
begin for the 2010 model year, with final phaseout of the existing Chrysler
V6 engines in calendar-year 2012.
Mercedes versions will most likely have more expensive features such as
direct injection.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>
The Phoenix engines were first discussed by "superduckie" way back in March
2006. "ask1919" wrote in April, "Phoenix will be a collection of V6 engines
to replace the whole line." oh20, whose track record has been 100% accurate
on such breakthroughs as the Caliber and Sebring, wrote in July that the
engines would include:
a.. 1... 3.0L V6 base Phoenix (next gen LX, J1, L2, R2)
b.. 2... 3.0L V6 premium Phoenix (L2)
c.. 3... 3.3L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen RT
Minivan)
d.. 4... 3.3L V6 premium Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen
RT Minivan)
e.. 5... 3.6L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, current and
next gen KA Nitro, next gen KK Liberty, next gen RT minivan, next gen LX,
Grand Cherokee current and next gen, next gen Commander)
f.. 6... 3.6L V6 HEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
g.. 7... 3.6L V6 premium Phoenix Engine (current and next gen LX, next gen
RT minivan)
h.. 8... 3.6L V6 PZEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
i.. 9... 4.0 V6 base Phoenix (next gen Pacifica, next gen NE Dakota, next
gen Ram, next gen KK Liberty, current and next gen KA Nitro, next gen LX,
next gen Grand Cherokee, next gen Commander, next gen JL Wrangler)
j.. 10... 4.0 V6 premium Phoenix (vehicles unknown)
Apparently the design is advanced enough that the oil pan is being subbed
out: "Oil pan for a Phoenix Engine from Chrysler had some very odd oil
diverters...nothing I've seen before."
The new Phoenix line of V-6 engines will debut for model-year 2010 vehicles,
which is to say, probably in the year 2009. Chrysler has announced details,
including the investment in plants ($2 billion, not including engineering of
the engines themselves) and the fact that Mercedes will share the basic
engine architecture. The Phoenix engines, long discussed on Allpar's news
and rumors forum, will be made in Kenosha, Wisconsin and Trenton, Michigan
(with parts machined in Toledo, Ohio), as well as in Germany for Mercedes.
Allpar at least is happy that development of these engines appears to be
centered in the US though no doubt Mercedes will get most of the credit for
their success.
The old Trenton Engine plant will close in 2014; the new Trenton Engine
plant, if one is indeed built within Trenton, will cost $800 million and
open in time for the 2010 model year, with groundbreaking scheduled for or
before November 1, 2006.
At the latest, the current V6 engines (dating back to around 1990 but with
strong reliability and nice power/economy) will be phased out in 2013 and
the 3.8 and 4.0 V6 should finished by 2014.
Dieter Zetsche, DCX and Mercedes CEO, said the new engine family would
operate on a modular base, reducing the corporation's V6 engine families to
one (from five - four at Chrysler and one at Mercedes). The World Engine
experience may provide some illustration of how that will be done, though
hopefully the Phoenix will prove to be quieter and less peaky. The world's
best V6 engines are being benchmarked; and Mercedes has a camless design
that may be integrated into Auburn Hills' work, since Zetsche is determined
that all corporate divisions share technology as needed.
The engines will, not surprisingly, be built on flexible assembly lines that
will allow the mix to be changed quickly and easily, to adjust to market
demands.
Plants will switch to new job rules that include 10 hour four-day work weeks
and a much smaller number of job classifications (two). Production will
begin for the 2010 model year, with final phaseout of the existing Chrysler
V6 engines in calendar-year 2012.
Mercedes versions will most likely have more expensive features such as
direct injection.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>
11-15-2006, 07:00 PM
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
Phoenix Engines: Chrysler - Mercedes V6 Engines for 2010 and Beyond
The Phoenix engines were first discussed by "superduckie" way back in March
2006. "ask1919" wrote in April, "Phoenix will be a collection of V6 engines
to replace the whole line." oh20, whose track record has been 100% accurate
on such breakthroughs as the Caliber and Sebring, wrote in July that the
engines would include:
a.. 1... 3.0L V6 base Phoenix (next gen LX, J1, L2, R2)
b.. 2... 3.0L V6 premium Phoenix (L2)
c.. 3... 3.3L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen RT
Minivan)
d.. 4... 3.3L V6 premium Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen
RT Minivan)
e.. 5... 3.6L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, current and
next gen KA Nitro, next gen KK Liberty, next gen RT minivan, next gen LX,
Grand Cherokee current and next gen, next gen Commander)
f.. 6... 3.6L V6 HEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
g.. 7... 3.6L V6 premium Phoenix Engine (current and next gen LX, next gen
RT minivan)
h.. 8... 3.6L V6 PZEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
i.. 9... 4.0 V6 base Phoenix (next gen Pacifica, next gen NE Dakota, next
gen Ram, next gen KK Liberty, current and next gen KA Nitro, next gen LX,
next gen Grand Cherokee, next gen Commander, next gen JL Wrangler)
j.. 10... 4.0 V6 premium Phoenix (vehicles unknown)
Apparently the design is advanced enough that the oil pan is being subbed
out: "Oil pan for a Phoenix Engine from Chrysler had some very odd oil
diverters...nothing I've seen before."
The new Phoenix line of V-6 engines will debut for model-year 2010 vehicles,
which is to say, probably in the year 2009. Chrysler has announced details,
including the investment in plants ($2 billion, not including engineering of
the engines themselves) and the fact that Mercedes will share the basic
engine architecture. The Phoenix engines, long discussed on Allpar's news
and rumors forum, will be made in Kenosha, Wisconsin and Trenton, Michigan
(with parts machined in Toledo, Ohio), as well as in Germany for Mercedes.
Allpar at least is happy that development of these engines appears to be
centered in the US though no doubt Mercedes will get most of the credit for
their success.
The old Trenton Engine plant will close in 2014; the new Trenton Engine
plant, if one is indeed built within Trenton, will cost $800 million and
open in time for the 2010 model year, with groundbreaking scheduled for or
before November 1, 2006.
At the latest, the current V6 engines (dating back to around 1990 but with
strong reliability and nice power/economy) will be phased out in 2013 and
the 3.8 and 4.0 V6 should finished by 2014.
Dieter Zetsche, DCX and Mercedes CEO, said the new engine family would
operate on a modular base, reducing the corporation's V6 engine families to
one (from five - four at Chrysler and one at Mercedes). The World Engine
experience may provide some illustration of how that will be done, though
hopefully the Phoenix will prove to be quieter and less peaky. The world's
best V6 engines are being benchmarked; and Mercedes has a camless design
that may be integrated into Auburn Hills' work, since Zetsche is determined
that all corporate divisions share technology as needed.
The engines will, not surprisingly, be built on flexible assembly lines that
will allow the mix to be changed quickly and easily, to adjust to market
demands.
Plants will switch to new job rules that include 10 hour four-day work weeks
and a much smaller number of job classifications (two). Production will
begin for the 2010 model year, with final phaseout of the existing Chrysler
V6 engines in calendar-year 2012.
Mercedes versions will most likely have more expensive features such as
direct injection.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>
The Phoenix engines were first discussed by "superduckie" way back in March
2006. "ask1919" wrote in April, "Phoenix will be a collection of V6 engines
to replace the whole line." oh20, whose track record has been 100% accurate
on such breakthroughs as the Caliber and Sebring, wrote in July that the
engines would include:
a.. 1... 3.0L V6 base Phoenix (next gen LX, J1, L2, R2)
b.. 2... 3.0L V6 premium Phoenix (L2)
c.. 3... 3.3L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen RT
Minivan)
d.. 4... 3.3L V6 premium Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, next gen
RT Minivan)
e.. 5... 3.6L V6 base Phoenix (current gen JS Avenger/Sebring, current and
next gen KA Nitro, next gen KK Liberty, next gen RT minivan, next gen LX,
Grand Cherokee current and next gen, next gen Commander)
f.. 6... 3.6L V6 HEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
g.. 7... 3.6L V6 premium Phoenix Engine (current and next gen LX, next gen
RT minivan)
h.. 8... 3.6L V6 PZEV Phoenix Engine (next gen RT minivan)
i.. 9... 4.0 V6 base Phoenix (next gen Pacifica, next gen NE Dakota, next
gen Ram, next gen KK Liberty, current and next gen KA Nitro, next gen LX,
next gen Grand Cherokee, next gen Commander, next gen JL Wrangler)
j.. 10... 4.0 V6 premium Phoenix (vehicles unknown)
Apparently the design is advanced enough that the oil pan is being subbed
out: "Oil pan for a Phoenix Engine from Chrysler had some very odd oil
diverters...nothing I've seen before."
The new Phoenix line of V-6 engines will debut for model-year 2010 vehicles,
which is to say, probably in the year 2009. Chrysler has announced details,
including the investment in plants ($2 billion, not including engineering of
the engines themselves) and the fact that Mercedes will share the basic
engine architecture. The Phoenix engines, long discussed on Allpar's news
and rumors forum, will be made in Kenosha, Wisconsin and Trenton, Michigan
(with parts machined in Toledo, Ohio), as well as in Germany for Mercedes.
Allpar at least is happy that development of these engines appears to be
centered in the US though no doubt Mercedes will get most of the credit for
their success.
The old Trenton Engine plant will close in 2014; the new Trenton Engine
plant, if one is indeed built within Trenton, will cost $800 million and
open in time for the 2010 model year, with groundbreaking scheduled for or
before November 1, 2006.
At the latest, the current V6 engines (dating back to around 1990 but with
strong reliability and nice power/economy) will be phased out in 2013 and
the 3.8 and 4.0 V6 should finished by 2014.
Dieter Zetsche, DCX and Mercedes CEO, said the new engine family would
operate on a modular base, reducing the corporation's V6 engine families to
one (from five - four at Chrysler and one at Mercedes). The World Engine
experience may provide some illustration of how that will be done, though
hopefully the Phoenix will prove to be quieter and less peaky. The world's
best V6 engines are being benchmarked; and Mercedes has a camless design
that may be integrated into Auburn Hills' work, since Zetsche is determined
that all corporate divisions share technology as needed.
The engines will, not surprisingly, be built on flexible assembly lines that
will allow the mix to be changed quickly and easily, to adjust to market
demands.
Plants will switch to new job rules that include 10 hour four-day work weeks
and a much smaller number of job classifications (two). Production will
begin for the 2010 model year, with final phaseout of the existing Chrysler
V6 engines in calendar-year 2012.
Mercedes versions will most likely have more expensive features such as
direct injection.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>
11-15-2006, 07:37 PM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
The AMC I-6 was offered in the CJ's and the AMC Pacers, were they not? A
Pacer engine in a Jeep?
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>
Pacer engine in a Jeep?
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>
11-15-2006, 07:37 PM
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Unlimited 4 door
The AMC I-6 was offered in the CJ's and the AMC Pacers, were they not? A
Pacer engine in a Jeep?
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>
Pacer engine in a Jeep?
"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:YeqdndW7R63XOcbYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only one thing kept me from picking one up: Lack of power.
>
> I figured as much. DC will spend 5 years playing with HP and torque
> numbers until sales drop to the point where they will either dump the
> entire line or bring back the straight-6, which ain't bloody likely in my
> lifetime.
>
> Whoever says the V-6 is a smart replacement for the I-6 is full of
> HORSEHOCKY. I was RIGHT. Mess with something that just flat-out WORKS,
> and you shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> A minivan engine in a Wrangler. Who, in their worst nightmare, could have
> ever imagined such horror. Worse, I'd bet that V-sucks is heavier than
> the I-6 as well. So much for progress. Newer ain't better.
>