Earle Horton

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08...
>
> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message
> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >>
> >> Say what!?
> >>
> >> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
> >> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
> >> leave
> >> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
> >> the point yo missed.)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
> > are
> > specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through
> > use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
> >
> > The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
> > increases
> > as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
> > eventually cracks and breaks.
>
>
> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion?

Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
point. Never mind.

Saludos cordiales,

Earle

>
> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
is
> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
which
> is the topic.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Mike Romain

Earle Horton wrote:
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08...
>> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message
>> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> Say what!?
>>>>
>>>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
>>>> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
>>>> leave
>>>> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
>>>> the point yo missed.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
>>> are
>>> specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through
>>> use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>>>
>>> The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
>>> increases
>>> as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
>>> eventually cracks and breaks.
>>
>> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion?
>
> Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
> bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
> point. Never mind.
>
> Saludos cordiales,
>
> Earle

Even more to the point, my post where I said I had to straighten mine 3
times and gave up. It hasn't tagged anything since...

>
>> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
> is
>> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
> which
>> is the topic.

But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
became hard and brittle.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Mike Romain

Earle Horton wrote:
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08...
>> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message
>> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> Say what!?
>>>>
>>>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
>>>> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
>>>> leave
>>>> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
>>>> the point yo missed.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
>>> are
>>> specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through
>>> use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>>>
>>> The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
>>> increases
>>> as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
>>> eventually cracks and breaks.
>>
>> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion?
>
> Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
> bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
> point. Never mind.
>
> Saludos cordiales,
>
> Earle

Even more to the point, my post where I said I had to straighten mine 3
times and gave up. It hasn't tagged anything since...

>
>> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
> is
>> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
> which
>> is the topic.

But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
became hard and brittle.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Mike Romain

Earle Horton wrote:
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08...
>> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message
>> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> Say what!?
>>>>
>>>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
>>>> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
>>>> leave
>>>> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
>>>> the point yo missed.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
>>> are
>>> specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through
>>> use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>>>
>>> The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
>>> increases
>>> as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
>>> eventually cracks and breaks.
>>
>> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion?
>
> Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
> bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
> point. Never mind.
>
> Saludos cordiales,
>
> Earle

Even more to the point, my post where I said I had to straighten mine 3
times and gave up. It hasn't tagged anything since...

>
>> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
> is
>> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
> which
>> is the topic.

But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
became hard and brittle.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Mike Romain

Earle Horton wrote:
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08...
>> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message
>> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> Say what!?
>>>>
>>>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
>>>> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
>>>> leave
>>>> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
>>>> the point yo missed.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
>>> are
>>> specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through
>>> use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>>>
>>> The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
>>> increases
>>> as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
>>> eventually cracks and breaks.
>>
>> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion?
>
> Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
> bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
> point. Never mind.
>
> Saludos cordiales,
>
> Earle

Even more to the point, my post where I said I had to straighten mine 3
times and gave up. It hasn't tagged anything since...

>
>> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
> is
>> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
> which
>> is the topic.

But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
became hard and brittle.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

c

Mike Romain wrote:
> Earle Horton wrote:
>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08...
>>> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message
>>> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>> Say what!?
>>>>>
>>>>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
>>>>> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
>>>>> leave
>>>>> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
>>>>> the point yo missed.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
>>>> are
>>>> specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength
>>>> through
>>>> use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>>>>
>>>> The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
>>>> increases
>>>> as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
>>>> eventually cracks and breaks.
>>>
>>> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the
>>> discussion?
>>
>> Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
>> bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
>> point. Never mind.
>>
>> Saludos cordiales,
>>
>> Earle
>
> Even more to the point, my post where I said I had to straighten mine 3
> times and gave up. It hasn't tagged anything since...
>
>>
>>> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
>> is
>>> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
>> which
>>> is the topic.
>
> But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
> became hard and brittle.
>
> Mike

In metallurgical terms, hardness and strength are related. The hardest
metals aren't the toughest or most durable ones though. I think the
terminology might be causing this discussion. Most metals that are
hardened in a furnace, such as tool steels, are very brittle after
hardening. They are actually tempered, or drawn down to a lower hardness
after heat treating to where the ductility increases. There is a point
where each alloy has its maximum durability for its intended
application. A work hardened piece of metal has gone beyond the maximum
recommended hardness and lost its ductility. Depending on the steel of
the bumper, it could possibly be heated to red hot with a torch and
allowed to slow cool to return the ductility to a higher level. Crude,
but it does work for most common steels.

Chris

c

Mike Romain wrote:
> Earle Horton wrote:
>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08...
>>> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message
>>> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>> Say what!?
>>>>>
>>>>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
>>>>> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
>>>>> leave
>>>>> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
>>>>> the point yo missed.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
>>>> are
>>>> specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength
>>>> through
>>>> use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>>>>
>>>> The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
>>>> increases
>>>> as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
>>>> eventually cracks and breaks.
>>>
>>> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the
>>> discussion?
>>
>> Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
>> bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
>> point. Never mind.
>>
>> Saludos cordiales,
>>
>> Earle
>
> Even more to the point, my post where I said I had to straighten mine 3
> times and gave up. It hasn't tagged anything since...
>
>>
>>> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
>> is
>>> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
>> which
>>> is the topic.
>
> But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
> became hard and brittle.
>
> Mike

In metallurgical terms, hardness and strength are related. The hardest
metals aren't the toughest or most durable ones though. I think the
terminology might be causing this discussion. Most metals that are
hardened in a furnace, such as tool steels, are very brittle after
hardening. They are actually tempered, or drawn down to a lower hardness
after heat treating to where the ductility increases. There is a point
where each alloy has its maximum durability for its intended
application. A work hardened piece of metal has gone beyond the maximum
recommended hardness and lost its ductility. Depending on the steel of
the bumper, it could possibly be heated to red hot with a torch and
allowed to slow cool to return the ductility to a higher level. Crude,
but it does work for most common steels.

Chris

c

Mike Romain wrote:
> Earle Horton wrote:
>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08...
>>> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message
>>> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>> Say what!?
>>>>>
>>>>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
>>>>> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
>>>>> leave
>>>>> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
>>>>> the point yo missed.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
>>>> are
>>>> specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength
>>>> through
>>>> use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>>>>
>>>> The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
>>>> increases
>>>> as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
>>>> eventually cracks and breaks.
>>>
>>> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the
>>> discussion?
>>
>> Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
>> bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
>> point. Never mind.
>>
>> Saludos cordiales,
>>
>> Earle
>
> Even more to the point, my post where I said I had to straighten mine 3
> times and gave up. It hasn't tagged anything since...
>
>>
>>> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
>> is
>>> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
>> which
>>> is the topic.
>
> But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
> became hard and brittle.
>
> Mike

In metallurgical terms, hardness and strength are related. The hardest
metals aren't the toughest or most durable ones though. I think the
terminology might be causing this discussion. Most metals that are
hardened in a furnace, such as tool steels, are very brittle after
hardening. They are actually tempered, or drawn down to a lower hardness
after heat treating to where the ductility increases. There is a point
where each alloy has its maximum durability for its intended
application. A work hardened piece of metal has gone beyond the maximum
recommended hardness and lost its ductility. Depending on the steel of
the bumper, it could possibly be heated to red hot with a torch and
allowed to slow cool to return the ductility to a higher level. Crude,
but it does work for most common steels.

Chris

c

Mike Romain wrote:
> Earle Horton wrote:
>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08...
>>> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message
>>> news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>> Say what!?
>>>>>
>>>>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again?
>>>>> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and
>>>>> leave
>>>>> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is
>>>>> the point yo missed.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals
>>>> are
>>>> specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength
>>>> through
>>>> use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work.
>>>>
>>>> The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness
>>>> increases
>>>> as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but
>>>> eventually cracks and breaks.
>>>
>>> Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the
>>> discussion?
>>
>> Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front
>> bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your
>> point. Never mind.
>>
>> Saludos cordiales,
>>
>> Earle
>
> Even more to the point, my post where I said I had to straighten mine 3
> times and gave up. It hasn't tagged anything since...
>
>>
>>> Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it
>> is
>>> straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers,
>> which
>>> is the topic.
>
> But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
> became hard and brittle.
>
> Mike

In metallurgical terms, hardness and strength are related. The hardest
metals aren't the toughest or most durable ones though. I think the
terminology might be causing this discussion. Most metals that are
hardened in a furnace, such as tool steels, are very brittle after
hardening. They are actually tempered, or drawn down to a lower hardness
after heat treating to where the ductility increases. There is a point
where each alloy has its maximum durability for its intended
application. A work hardened piece of metal has gone beyond the maximum
recommended hardness and lost its ductility. Depending on the steel of
the bumper, it could possibly be heated to red hot with a torch and
allowed to slow cool to return the ductility to a higher level. Crude,
but it does work for most common steels.

Chris

Will Honea

Mike Romain wrote:

> But ever notice after a few straightens it cracks? That is because it
> became hard and brittle.
>

Technically, Mike, that should be fatigued. Bending a wire to break it
creates several interesting effects in metal, especially steel, in the
process - that is, if you are trying to pass a metallurgy course and that
is one of the experiments. Even with my memory these days, I can still
remember that experience!

--
Will Honea