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Re: TJ vs JK
"T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... >> >> Say what!? >> >> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again? >> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and leave >> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is >> the point yo missed.) >> >> > > > You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals are > specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through > use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work. > > The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness increases > as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but > eventually cracks and breaks. Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion? Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it is straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers, which is the topic. |
Re: TJ vs JK
"T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... >> >> Say what!? >> >> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again? >> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and leave >> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is >> the point yo missed.) >> >> > > > You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals are > specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through > use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work. > > The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness increases > as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but > eventually cracks and breaks. Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion? Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it is straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers, which is the topic. |
Re: TJ vs JK
"T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... >> >> Say what!? >> >> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again? >> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and leave >> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is >> the point yo missed.) >> >> > > > You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals are > specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through > use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work. > > The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness increases > as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but > eventually cracks and breaks. Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion? Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it is straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers, which is the topic. |
Re: TJ vs JK
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message > news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... >>> >>> Say what!? >>> >>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it >>> again? That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a >>> bumper and leave it be and it will never hit anything again. >>> (That's a joke son, and is the point yo missed.) >> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some >> metals are specifically designed to start off soft and increase in >> strength through use. The correct term IS called work hardening and >> it does work. The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness >> increases as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets >> harder to bend but eventually cracks and breaks. > Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the > discussion? > Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if > it is straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and > bumpers, which is the topic. Ever do any body work? There is a reason why you have to use a torch to anneal metal is so you can continue to work without making it so brittle it cracks. As for bends happening in the same place, that's because of structure not the metal hardness. Body metal today is so darn thin the only structural rigidity they have is due to forming. What happens is the structure has become compromised and until the structure is fixed, the fender will tend to fail along the same line. It's like bending a straw. Once there is a bend in the straw it will fail at that point again. Metal only has two zones, elastic and plastic. In the elastic zone (like car springs) the metal will return to its previous state. In the plastic zone it will retain that shape. Work hardening and annealing changes where these zones lay. A good example is making a gas tank for a bike. You start with a sheet of aluminum but that can't be formed till it's made softer (annealed). After so much work it needs to be annealed again or the metal will crack as it's being formed. If you can find it, Bill Toboldt, Autobody Repair and Repainting is a very good book for starting out. It was pressed back in 1979 ISBN 0-87006-423-1 -- DougW |
Re: TJ vs JK
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message > news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... >>> >>> Say what!? >>> >>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it >>> again? That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a >>> bumper and leave it be and it will never hit anything again. >>> (That's a joke son, and is the point yo missed.) >> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some >> metals are specifically designed to start off soft and increase in >> strength through use. The correct term IS called work hardening and >> it does work. The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness >> increases as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets >> harder to bend but eventually cracks and breaks. > Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the > discussion? > Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if > it is straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and > bumpers, which is the topic. Ever do any body work? There is a reason why you have to use a torch to anneal metal is so you can continue to work without making it so brittle it cracks. As for bends happening in the same place, that's because of structure not the metal hardness. Body metal today is so darn thin the only structural rigidity they have is due to forming. What happens is the structure has become compromised and until the structure is fixed, the fender will tend to fail along the same line. It's like bending a straw. Once there is a bend in the straw it will fail at that point again. Metal only has two zones, elastic and plastic. In the elastic zone (like car springs) the metal will return to its previous state. In the plastic zone it will retain that shape. Work hardening and annealing changes where these zones lay. A good example is making a gas tank for a bike. You start with a sheet of aluminum but that can't be formed till it's made softer (annealed). After so much work it needs to be annealed again or the metal will crack as it's being formed. If you can find it, Bill Toboldt, Autobody Repair and Repainting is a very good book for starting out. It was pressed back in 1979 ISBN 0-87006-423-1 -- DougW |
Re: TJ vs JK
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message > news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... >>> >>> Say what!? >>> >>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it >>> again? That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a >>> bumper and leave it be and it will never hit anything again. >>> (That's a joke son, and is the point yo missed.) >> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some >> metals are specifically designed to start off soft and increase in >> strength through use. The correct term IS called work hardening and >> it does work. The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness >> increases as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets >> harder to bend but eventually cracks and breaks. > Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the > discussion? > Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if > it is straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and > bumpers, which is the topic. Ever do any body work? There is a reason why you have to use a torch to anneal metal is so you can continue to work without making it so brittle it cracks. As for bends happening in the same place, that's because of structure not the metal hardness. Body metal today is so darn thin the only structural rigidity they have is due to forming. What happens is the structure has become compromised and until the structure is fixed, the fender will tend to fail along the same line. It's like bending a straw. Once there is a bend in the straw it will fail at that point again. Metal only has two zones, elastic and plastic. In the elastic zone (like car springs) the metal will return to its previous state. In the plastic zone it will retain that shape. Work hardening and annealing changes where these zones lay. A good example is making a gas tank for a bike. You start with a sheet of aluminum but that can't be formed till it's made softer (annealed). After so much work it needs to be annealed again or the metal will crack as it's being formed. If you can find it, Bill Toboldt, Autobody Repair and Repainting is a very good book for starting out. It was pressed back in 1979 ISBN 0-87006-423-1 -- DougW |
Re: TJ vs JK
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message > news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... >>> >>> Say what!? >>> >>> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it >>> again? That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a >>> bumper and leave it be and it will never hit anything again. >>> (That's a joke son, and is the point yo missed.) >> You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some >> metals are specifically designed to start off soft and increase in >> strength through use. The correct term IS called work hardening and >> it does work. The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness >> increases as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets >> harder to bend but eventually cracks and breaks. > Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the > discussion? > Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if > it is straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and > bumpers, which is the topic. Ever do any body work? There is a reason why you have to use a torch to anneal metal is so you can continue to work without making it so brittle it cracks. As for bends happening in the same place, that's because of structure not the metal hardness. Body metal today is so darn thin the only structural rigidity they have is due to forming. What happens is the structure has become compromised and until the structure is fixed, the fender will tend to fail along the same line. It's like bending a straw. Once there is a bend in the straw it will fail at that point again. Metal only has two zones, elastic and plastic. In the elastic zone (like car springs) the metal will return to its previous state. In the plastic zone it will retain that shape. Work hardening and annealing changes where these zones lay. A good example is making a gas tank for a bike. You start with a sheet of aluminum but that can't be formed till it's made softer (annealed). After so much work it needs to be annealed again or the metal will crack as it's being formed. If you can find it, Bill Toboldt, Autobody Repair and Repainting is a very good book for starting out. It was pressed back in 1979 ISBN 0-87006-423-1 -- DougW |
Re: TJ vs JK
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08... > > "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message > news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > >> > >> Say what!? > >> > >> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again? > >> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and > >> leave > >> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is > >> the point yo missed.) > >> > >> > > > > > > You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals > > are > > specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through > > use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work. > > > > The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness > > increases > > as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but > > eventually cracks and breaks. > > > Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion? Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your point. Never mind. Saludos cordiales, Earle > > Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it is > straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers, which > is the topic. > > > > > > > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: TJ vs JK
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08... > > "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message > news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > >> > >> Say what!? > >> > >> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again? > >> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and > >> leave > >> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is > >> the point yo missed.) > >> > >> > > > > > > You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals > > are > > specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through > > use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work. > > > > The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness > > increases > > as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but > > eventually cracks and breaks. > > > Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion? Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your point. Never mind. Saludos cordiales, Earle > > Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it is > straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers, which > is the topic. > > > > > > > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Re: TJ vs JK
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:DgMoi.12080$U47.10233@trnddc08... > > "T. Greening" <tgreen@yomama.com> wrote in message > news:46a175ee$0$4905$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > >> > >> Say what!? > >> > >> Metal can be made stronger by bending it then straightening it again? > >> That's patently absurd. But, you miss the point, bend a bumper and > >> leave > >> it be and it will never hit anything again. (That's a joke son, and is > >> the point yo missed.) > >> > >> > > > > > > You might think it's absurd but it happens to be correct. Some metals > > are > > specifically designed to start off soft and increase in strength through > > use. The correct term IS called work hardening and it does work. > > > > The steel DOES become stronger but as it does, it's brittleness > > increases > > as well, which is why as you keep bending it it gets harder to bend but > > eventually cracks and breaks. > > > Can you give an automotive application that actually fits the discussion? Right after I got my Jeep I smacked a GMC pickup, hard, with the front bumper. That bumper has never hit anything again. O wait, that's your point. Never mind. Saludos cordiales, Earle > > Any metal on my Jeep that has been bent is weaker and bends easier if it is > straightened. This is particularly notable on the fenders and bumpers, which > is the topic. > > > > > > > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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