TJ A/C Issues
 

It's been a while since I've posted to this newsgroup, but this latest
issue has brought me and my repair shop to a standstill. This takes
place with my 1997 TJ. Put as simple as possible, the problem is
that, on occasion, the A/C refuses to get remotely cold after any
length of time (primarily on hot, humid days after the car was sitting
outside). Living in South Florida, days like this are quite common.
Now, the clincher is that it is not constant. If the vehicle is
sitting in a garage, or is started on a cooler day, the A/C gets very
cold, measured at my shop to 40 degrees, which is exactly what I'd
like to always happen. On those hotter days, it doesn't matter if the
car is idling, driving stop and go, or on the highway; the air will
simply not get below about 65-70 degrees through the vents, at best.
To address the issue, all A/C hoses were replaced to avoid a prior
problem of the system freezing (ice falling off hoses when the car
stopped), the low pressure switch was replaced, as was the evaporator
and accumulator. The condenser was thoroughly cleaned as well. It
was checked for leaks, and recharged three times, with the same
results. The fan is fine, and the compressor is a non-cycling model
(from what the shop says, at least), and stays on when it should.
Since the shop keeps their current repairs in a garage, the A/C works
fine for them, but then has the same problems outside when I leave.
Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?
Since the summer is in full swing, I'd really like to get this A/C
problem finally fixed. Thanks for anything you've got.
Joe Winn
Florida
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sport - Flame Red

Re: TJ A/C Issues
 

Joe writes:

> Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?

You may have an incompetent repairman. Ice anywhere on an A/C system is
solid evidence of malfunction.

Replacing hoses to fix icing?!?!?! Who swindled you on that?

A refrigerant undercharge is (paradoxically) one cause of icing. An
undercharge will also behave as you describe, working OK in light loads,
but not keeping up with more heat and/or humidity. So will a
restriction in the system.

Why was the low-pressure switch replaced? More guessing at your
expense?

When you have the evaporator and accumulator replaced, you should have
demanded a vacuum leak test, where you actually personally get to watch
the gages and see them hold a vacuum. So many A/C techs are incompetent
or will wave off a slow leak because they make believe it is fixed or
won't matter.

If you've paid as much as I think you have for this work, then you
should have been shown performance test results per the service manual.
None of this wave-of-the-hand-your-done.

A/C work is absolutely the worst to hire out. Huge prices for guys who
pretend to know something they don't. That's why I learned to do it all
myself.

Re: TJ A/C Issues
 

Joe writes:

> Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?

You may have an incompetent repairman. Ice anywhere on an A/C system is
solid evidence of malfunction.

Replacing hoses to fix icing?!?!?! Who swindled you on that?

A refrigerant undercharge is (paradoxically) one cause of icing. An
undercharge will also behave as you describe, working OK in light loads,
but not keeping up with more heat and/or humidity. So will a
restriction in the system.

Why was the low-pressure switch replaced? More guessing at your
expense?

When you have the evaporator and accumulator replaced, you should have
demanded a vacuum leak test, where you actually personally get to watch
the gages and see them hold a vacuum. So many A/C techs are incompetent
or will wave off a slow leak because they make believe it is fixed or
won't matter.

If you've paid as much as I think you have for this work, then you
should have been shown performance test results per the service manual.
None of this wave-of-the-hand-your-done.

A/C work is absolutely the worst to hire out. Huge prices for guys who
pretend to know something they don't. That's why I learned to do it all
myself.

Re: TJ A/C Issues
 

Joe writes:

> Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?

You may have an incompetent repairman. Ice anywhere on an A/C system is
solid evidence of malfunction.

Replacing hoses to fix icing?!?!?! Who swindled you on that?

A refrigerant undercharge is (paradoxically) one cause of icing. An
undercharge will also behave as you describe, working OK in light loads,
but not keeping up with more heat and/or humidity. So will a
restriction in the system.

Why was the low-pressure switch replaced? More guessing at your
expense?

When you have the evaporator and accumulator replaced, you should have
demanded a vacuum leak test, where you actually personally get to watch
the gages and see them hold a vacuum. So many A/C techs are incompetent
or will wave off a slow leak because they make believe it is fixed or
won't matter.

If you've paid as much as I think you have for this work, then you
should have been shown performance test results per the service manual.
None of this wave-of-the-hand-your-done.

A/C work is absolutely the worst to hire out. Huge prices for guys who
pretend to know something they don't. That's why I learned to do it all
myself.

Re: TJ A/C Issues
 

Joe writes:

> Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?

You may have an incompetent repairman. Ice anywhere on an A/C system is
solid evidence of malfunction.

Replacing hoses to fix icing?!?!?! Who swindled you on that?

A refrigerant undercharge is (paradoxically) one cause of icing. An
undercharge will also behave as you describe, working OK in light loads,
but not keeping up with more heat and/or humidity. So will a
restriction in the system.

Why was the low-pressure switch replaced? More guessing at your
expense?

When you have the evaporator and accumulator replaced, you should have
demanded a vacuum leak test, where you actually personally get to watch
the gages and see them hold a vacuum. So many A/C techs are incompetent
or will wave off a slow leak because they make believe it is fixed or
won't matter.

If you've paid as much as I think you have for this work, then you
should have been shown performance test results per the service manual.
None of this wave-of-the-hand-your-done.

A/C work is absolutely the worst to hire out. Huge prices for guys who
pretend to know something they don't. That's why I learned to do it all
myself.

Re: TJ A/C Issues
 

On Jun 16, 12:38 am, Richard J Kinch <k...@truetex.com> wrote:
> Joe writes:
> > Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?
>
> You may have an incompetent repairman. Ice anywhere on an A/C system is
> solid evidence of malfunction.
>
> Replacing hoses to fix icing?!?!?! Who swindled you on that?
>
> A refrigerant undercharge is (paradoxically) one cause of icing. An
> undercharge will also behave as you describe, working OK in light loads,
> but not keeping up with more heat and/or humidity. So will a
> restriction in the system.
>
> Why was the low-pressure switch replaced? More guessing at your
> expense?
>
> When you have the evaporator and accumulator replaced, you should have
> demanded a vacuum leak test, where you actually personally get to watch
> the gages and see them hold a vacuum. So many A/C techs are incompetent
> or will wave off a slow leak because they make believe it is fixed or
> won't matter.
>
> If you've paid as much as I think you have for this work, then you
> should have been shown performance test results per the service manual.
> None of this wave-of-the-hand-your-done.
>
> A/C work is absolutely the worst to hire out. Huge prices for guys who
> pretend to know something they don't. That's why I learned to do it all
> myself.

First, thanks for the rapid reply. All of those repairs were done in
one fell swoop as a comprehensive repair to stop the system from
freezing up, and subsequently, restricting air flow through the vents,
especially after being at highway speeds for more than a few minutes.
This shop has always been competent in other repairs, but this A/C is
seemingly giving them a lot of trouble. Since, as you guessed, I did
end up paying a decent amount for it all, I'm bringing the car back in
for a third time to hopefully get it completely fixed. I will demand
to see the results of the vacuum test to make sure there are no leaks,
and also make sure their charge is adequate.
Hopefully this debacle will finally end. Thanks again.
Joe

Re: TJ A/C Issues
 

On Jun 16, 12:38 am, Richard J Kinch <k...@truetex.com> wrote:
> Joe writes:
> > Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?
>
> You may have an incompetent repairman. Ice anywhere on an A/C system is
> solid evidence of malfunction.
>
> Replacing hoses to fix icing?!?!?! Who swindled you on that?
>
> A refrigerant undercharge is (paradoxically) one cause of icing. An
> undercharge will also behave as you describe, working OK in light loads,
> but not keeping up with more heat and/or humidity. So will a
> restriction in the system.
>
> Why was the low-pressure switch replaced? More guessing at your
> expense?
>
> When you have the evaporator and accumulator replaced, you should have
> demanded a vacuum leak test, where you actually personally get to watch
> the gages and see them hold a vacuum. So many A/C techs are incompetent
> or will wave off a slow leak because they make believe it is fixed or
> won't matter.
>
> If you've paid as much as I think you have for this work, then you
> should have been shown performance test results per the service manual.
> None of this wave-of-the-hand-your-done.
>
> A/C work is absolutely the worst to hire out. Huge prices for guys who
> pretend to know something they don't. That's why I learned to do it all
> myself.

First, thanks for the rapid reply. All of those repairs were done in
one fell swoop as a comprehensive repair to stop the system from
freezing up, and subsequently, restricting air flow through the vents,
especially after being at highway speeds for more than a few minutes.
This shop has always been competent in other repairs, but this A/C is
seemingly giving them a lot of trouble. Since, as you guessed, I did
end up paying a decent amount for it all, I'm bringing the car back in
for a third time to hopefully get it completely fixed. I will demand
to see the results of the vacuum test to make sure there are no leaks,
and also make sure their charge is adequate.
Hopefully this debacle will finally end. Thanks again.
Joe

Re: TJ A/C Issues
 

On Jun 16, 12:38 am, Richard J Kinch <k...@truetex.com> wrote:
> Joe writes:
> > Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?
>
> You may have an incompetent repairman. Ice anywhere on an A/C system is
> solid evidence of malfunction.
>
> Replacing hoses to fix icing?!?!?! Who swindled you on that?
>
> A refrigerant undercharge is (paradoxically) one cause of icing. An
> undercharge will also behave as you describe, working OK in light loads,
> but not keeping up with more heat and/or humidity. So will a
> restriction in the system.
>
> Why was the low-pressure switch replaced? More guessing at your
> expense?
>
> When you have the evaporator and accumulator replaced, you should have
> demanded a vacuum leak test, where you actually personally get to watch
> the gages and see them hold a vacuum. So many A/C techs are incompetent
> or will wave off a slow leak because they make believe it is fixed or
> won't matter.
>
> If you've paid as much as I think you have for this work, then you
> should have been shown performance test results per the service manual.
> None of this wave-of-the-hand-your-done.
>
> A/C work is absolutely the worst to hire out. Huge prices for guys who
> pretend to know something they don't. That's why I learned to do it all
> myself.

First, thanks for the rapid reply. All of those repairs were done in
one fell swoop as a comprehensive repair to stop the system from
freezing up, and subsequently, restricting air flow through the vents,
especially after being at highway speeds for more than a few minutes.
This shop has always been competent in other repairs, but this A/C is
seemingly giving them a lot of trouble. Since, as you guessed, I did
end up paying a decent amount for it all, I'm bringing the car back in
for a third time to hopefully get it completely fixed. I will demand
to see the results of the vacuum test to make sure there are no leaks,
and also make sure their charge is adequate.
Hopefully this debacle will finally end. Thanks again.
Joe

Re: TJ A/C Issues
 

On Jun 16, 12:38 am, Richard J Kinch <k...@truetex.com> wrote:
> Joe writes:
> > Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?
>
> You may have an incompetent repairman. Ice anywhere on an A/C system is
> solid evidence of malfunction.
>
> Replacing hoses to fix icing?!?!?! Who swindled you on that?
>
> A refrigerant undercharge is (paradoxically) one cause of icing. An
> undercharge will also behave as you describe, working OK in light loads,
> but not keeping up with more heat and/or humidity. So will a
> restriction in the system.
>
> Why was the low-pressure switch replaced? More guessing at your
> expense?
>
> When you have the evaporator and accumulator replaced, you should have
> demanded a vacuum leak test, where you actually personally get to watch
> the gages and see them hold a vacuum. So many A/C techs are incompetent
> or will wave off a slow leak because they make believe it is fixed or
> won't matter.
>
> If you've paid as much as I think you have for this work, then you
> should have been shown performance test results per the service manual.
> None of this wave-of-the-hand-your-done.
>
> A/C work is absolutely the worst to hire out. Huge prices for guys who
> pretend to know something they don't. That's why I learned to do it all
> myself.

First, thanks for the rapid reply. All of those repairs were done in
one fell swoop as a comprehensive repair to stop the system from
freezing up, and subsequently, restricting air flow through the vents,
especially after being at highway speeds for more than a few minutes.
This shop has always been competent in other repairs, but this A/C is
seemingly giving them a lot of trouble. Since, as you guessed, I did
end up paying a decent amount for it all, I'm bringing the car back in
for a third time to hopefully get it completely fixed. I will demand
to see the results of the vacuum test to make sure there are no leaks,
and also make sure their charge is adequate.
Hopefully this debacle will finally end. Thanks again.
Joe

Re: TJ A/C Issues
 

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 06:48:30 -0700, Joe <UMparrothead@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Jun 16, 12:38 am, Richard J Kinch <k...@truetex.com> wrote:
>> Joe writes:
>> > Does anyone on here have any suggestions on other things to check?
>>
>> You may have an incompetent repairman. Ice anywhere on an A/C system is
>> solid evidence of malfunction.
>>
>> Replacing hoses to fix icing?!?!?! Who swindled you on that?
>>
>> A refrigerant undercharge is (paradoxically) one cause of icing. An
>> undercharge will also behave as you describe, working OK in light loads,
>> but not keeping up with more heat and/or humidity. So will a
>> restriction in the system.
>>
>> Why was the low-pressure switch replaced? More guessing at your
>> expense?
>>
>> When you have the evaporator and accumulator replaced, you should have
>> demanded a vacuum leak test, where you actually personally get to watch
>> the gages and see them hold a vacuum. So many A/C techs are incompetent
>> or will wave off a slow leak because they make believe it is fixed or
>> won't matter.
>>
>> If you've paid as much as I think you have for this work, then you
>> should have been shown performance test results per the service manual.
>> None of this wave-of-the-hand-your-done.
>>
>> A/C work is absolutely the worst to hire out. Huge prices for guys who
>> pretend to know something they don't. That's why I learned to do it all
>> myself.
>
>First, thanks for the rapid reply. All of those repairs were done in
>one fell swoop as a comprehensive repair to stop the system from
>freezing up, and subsequently, restricting air flow through the vents,
>especially after being at highway speeds for more than a few minutes.
>This shop has always been competent in other repairs, but this A/C is
>seemingly giving them a lot of trouble. Since, as you guessed, I did
>end up paying a decent amount for it all, I'm bringing the car back in
>for a third time to hopefully get it completely fixed. I will demand
>to see the results of the vacuum test to make sure there are no leaks,
>and also make sure their charge is adequate.
>Hopefully this debacle will finally end. Thanks again.
>Joe

Should have had a comprehensive diagnosis before the comprehensive
repair.

Sounds like a WAG to me.