DougW

Pete Stolz wrote:
> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this
> is for my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She will be taking this thing to school every day and I need
> to know
> she's driving something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New drivers (actually most drivers) don't have the sensitivity
> and
> presence of mind to NOT just "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They just panic, jam on the brakes and pray. ABS gives those
> prayers
> a better chance of being answered. Don't want to have to test the
> airbag system! :)

There is an other end to that. Drivers that aren't aware of what
ABS feels like (Buzzzzzzzzzzzz) when it kicks in are likely to let
off the brake. My suggestion is what ever vehicle you do get, take
the time to go to a dirt/gravel spot and practice emergency stops.

ABS won't necessarily stop you faster. What ABS does is let you
maintain steering control while your skittering to a stop.

I can stop faster in a straight line without ABS, especially
in loose dirt/gravel/snow because the debris pile up in front
of the tire and the vehicle digs-in. While on ice where ABS
shines, it basically allows you to pick where your going to
hit. :/

--
DougW

DougW

Pete Stolz wrote:
> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this
> is for my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She will be taking this thing to school every day and I need
> to know
> she's driving something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New drivers (actually most drivers) don't have the sensitivity
> and
> presence of mind to NOT just "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They just panic, jam on the brakes and pray. ABS gives those
> prayers
> a better chance of being answered. Don't want to have to test the
> airbag system! :)

There is an other end to that. Drivers that aren't aware of what
ABS feels like (Buzzzzzzzzzzzz) when it kicks in are likely to let
off the brake. My suggestion is what ever vehicle you do get, take
the time to go to a dirt/gravel spot and practice emergency stops.

ABS won't necessarily stop you faster. What ABS does is let you
maintain steering control while your skittering to a stop.

I can stop faster in a straight line without ABS, especially
in loose dirt/gravel/snow because the debris pile up in front
of the tire and the vehicle digs-in. While on ice where ABS
shines, it basically allows you to pick where your going to
hit. :/

--
DougW

twaldron

I was just saying that by using "ABS" as a keyword in your search, you
might be missing some nice Jeeps that _DO HAVE_ ABS because the owner
just didn't list it, or even know it was on the Jeep. Also, ABS has
become so standard on so many vehicles, ads just don't necessarily list
them as an option.

tw

Pete Stolz wrote:
> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this is for
> my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She will be
> taking this thing to school every day and I need to know she's driving
> something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New drivers (actually
> most drivers) don't have the sensitivity and presence of mind to NOT just
> "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They just panic, jam on the brakes and
> pray. ABS gives those prayers a better chance of being answered. Don't
> want to have to test the airbag system! :)
> Pete
>
> "twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSspam.com> wrote in message
> news:3DWdh.170$5h.49@trnddc04...
>>
>>Most people won't even know they have it. You might be eliminating some
>>nice Jeeps in your search criteria method.
>>
>>tw
>>--


--
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________

twaldron

I was just saying that by using "ABS" as a keyword in your search, you
might be missing some nice Jeeps that _DO HAVE_ ABS because the owner
just didn't list it, or even know it was on the Jeep. Also, ABS has
become so standard on so many vehicles, ads just don't necessarily list
them as an option.

tw

Pete Stolz wrote:
> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this is for
> my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She will be
> taking this thing to school every day and I need to know she's driving
> something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New drivers (actually
> most drivers) don't have the sensitivity and presence of mind to NOT just
> "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They just panic, jam on the brakes and
> pray. ABS gives those prayers a better chance of being answered. Don't
> want to have to test the airbag system! :)
> Pete
>
> "twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSspam.com> wrote in message
> news:3DWdh.170$5h.49@trnddc04...
>>
>>Most people won't even know they have it. You might be eliminating some
>>nice Jeeps in your search criteria method.
>>
>>tw
>>--


--
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________

twaldron

I was just saying that by using "ABS" as a keyword in your search, you
might be missing some nice Jeeps that _DO HAVE_ ABS because the owner
just didn't list it, or even know it was on the Jeep. Also, ABS has
become so standard on so many vehicles, ads just don't necessarily list
them as an option.

tw

Pete Stolz wrote:
> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this is for
> my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She will be
> taking this thing to school every day and I need to know she's driving
> something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New drivers (actually
> most drivers) don't have the sensitivity and presence of mind to NOT just
> "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They just panic, jam on the brakes and
> pray. ABS gives those prayers a better chance of being answered. Don't
> want to have to test the airbag system! :)
> Pete
>
> "twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSspam.com> wrote in message
> news:3DWdh.170$5h.49@trnddc04...
>>
>>Most people won't even know they have it. You might be eliminating some
>>nice Jeeps in your search criteria method.
>>
>>tw
>>--


--
__________________________________________________ ___________________
2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."

Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Pete Stolz

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:JM_dh.4254$Rj.1642@newsfe19.lga...
> Pete Stolz wrote:
>> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this
>> is for my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She
>> will be taking this thing to school every day and I need to know
>> she's driving something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New
>> drivers (actually most drivers) don't have the sensitivity and
>> presence of mind to NOT just "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They
>> just panic, jam on the brakes and pray. ABS gives those prayers
>> a better chance of being answered. Don't want to have to test the
>> airbag system! :)
>
> There is an other end to that. Drivers that aren't aware of what
> ABS feels like (Buzzzzzzzzzzzz) when it kicks in are likely to let
> off the brake. My suggestion is what ever vehicle you do get, take
> the time to go to a dirt/gravel spot and practice emergency stops.
>
> ABS won't necessarily stop you faster. What ABS does is let you
> maintain steering control while your skittering to a stop.
>
> I can stop faster in a straight line without ABS, especially
> in loose dirt/gravel/snow because the debris pile up in front
> of the tire and the vehicle digs-in. While on ice where ABS
> shines, it basically allows you to pick where your going to
> hit. :/
>
> --
> DougW

Couldn't agree more. Technically, if you've practiced it enough and have
developed a good sensitivity to lock up, you can beat ABS, especially on dry
pavement. Practicing that has a tendancy to square off your tires though.
We do a braking exercise that does just that. We run students through a
couple of times with ABS on so that when they hammer the brakes, they feel
and hear that buzzing. Then we switch it off and run 'em through again and
have them simulate ABS with their foot. It's hard enough when you're not
panicked, but when a kid jumps out in front of you unexpectedly, your
instinct is to shove the brake pedal through the firewall. That's what
great about ABS: the computer compensates for panic and lack of sensitivity.

My daughter has her temps right now and I've already had her out practicing
braking just to give her the feel of how hard she needs to push the pedal
(even with power assist) to get to ABS, and also a feel for how quickly a
vehicle will stop. It will probably be awhile (read never) before I'm
comfortable with her in something without ABS.

Pete

Pete Stolz

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:JM_dh.4254$Rj.1642@newsfe19.lga...
> Pete Stolz wrote:
>> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this
>> is for my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She
>> will be taking this thing to school every day and I need to know
>> she's driving something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New
>> drivers (actually most drivers) don't have the sensitivity and
>> presence of mind to NOT just "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They
>> just panic, jam on the brakes and pray. ABS gives those prayers
>> a better chance of being answered. Don't want to have to test the
>> airbag system! :)
>
> There is an other end to that. Drivers that aren't aware of what
> ABS feels like (Buzzzzzzzzzzzz) when it kicks in are likely to let
> off the brake. My suggestion is what ever vehicle you do get, take
> the time to go to a dirt/gravel spot and practice emergency stops.
>
> ABS won't necessarily stop you faster. What ABS does is let you
> maintain steering control while your skittering to a stop.
>
> I can stop faster in a straight line without ABS, especially
> in loose dirt/gravel/snow because the debris pile up in front
> of the tire and the vehicle digs-in. While on ice where ABS
> shines, it basically allows you to pick where your going to
> hit. :/
>
> --
> DougW

Couldn't agree more. Technically, if you've practiced it enough and have
developed a good sensitivity to lock up, you can beat ABS, especially on dry
pavement. Practicing that has a tendancy to square off your tires though.
We do a braking exercise that does just that. We run students through a
couple of times with ABS on so that when they hammer the brakes, they feel
and hear that buzzing. Then we switch it off and run 'em through again and
have them simulate ABS with their foot. It's hard enough when you're not
panicked, but when a kid jumps out in front of you unexpectedly, your
instinct is to shove the brake pedal through the firewall. That's what
great about ABS: the computer compensates for panic and lack of sensitivity.

My daughter has her temps right now and I've already had her out practicing
braking just to give her the feel of how hard she needs to push the pedal
(even with power assist) to get to ABS, and also a feel for how quickly a
vehicle will stop. It will probably be awhile (read never) before I'm
comfortable with her in something without ABS.

Pete

Pete Stolz

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:JM_dh.4254$Rj.1642@newsfe19.lga...
> Pete Stolz wrote:
>> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this
>> is for my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She
>> will be taking this thing to school every day and I need to know
>> she's driving something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New
>> drivers (actually most drivers) don't have the sensitivity and
>> presence of mind to NOT just "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They
>> just panic, jam on the brakes and pray. ABS gives those prayers
>> a better chance of being answered. Don't want to have to test the
>> airbag system! :)
>
> There is an other end to that. Drivers that aren't aware of what
> ABS feels like (Buzzzzzzzzzzzz) when it kicks in are likely to let
> off the brake. My suggestion is what ever vehicle you do get, take
> the time to go to a dirt/gravel spot and practice emergency stops.
>
> ABS won't necessarily stop you faster. What ABS does is let you
> maintain steering control while your skittering to a stop.
>
> I can stop faster in a straight line without ABS, especially
> in loose dirt/gravel/snow because the debris pile up in front
> of the tire and the vehicle digs-in. While on ice where ABS
> shines, it basically allows you to pick where your going to
> hit. :/
>
> --
> DougW

Couldn't agree more. Technically, if you've practiced it enough and have
developed a good sensitivity to lock up, you can beat ABS, especially on dry
pavement. Practicing that has a tendancy to square off your tires though.
We do a braking exercise that does just that. We run students through a
couple of times with ABS on so that when they hammer the brakes, they feel
and hear that buzzing. Then we switch it off and run 'em through again and
have them simulate ABS with their foot. It's hard enough when you're not
panicked, but when a kid jumps out in front of you unexpectedly, your
instinct is to shove the brake pedal through the firewall. That's what
great about ABS: the computer compensates for panic and lack of sensitivity.

My daughter has her temps right now and I've already had her out practicing
braking just to give her the feel of how hard she needs to push the pedal
(even with power assist) to get to ABS, and also a feel for how quickly a
vehicle will stop. It will probably be awhile (read never) before I'm
comfortable with her in something without ABS.

Pete

Pete Stolz

OK. I misunderstood what you meant. My bad! Your probably right about
that. I'll have to check each one individually I suppose.
Thanks,
Pete


"twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSspam.com> wrote in message
news:zE%dh.3598$5h.732@trnddc04...
>I was just saying that by using "ABS" as a keyword in your search, you
>might be missing some nice Jeeps that _DO HAVE_ ABS because the owner just
>didn't list it, or even know it was on the Jeep. Also, ABS has become so
>standard on so many vehicles, ads just don't necessarily list them as an
>option.
>
> tw
>
> Pete Stolz wrote:
>> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this is
>> for my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She
>> will be taking this thing to school every day and I need to know she's
>> driving something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New drivers
>> (actually most drivers) don't have the sensitivity and presence of mind
>> to NOT just "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They just panic, jam on
>> the brakes and pray. ABS gives those prayers a better chance of being
>> answered. Don't want to have to test the airbag system! :)
>> Pete
>>
>> "twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSspam.com> wrote in message
>> news:3DWdh.170$5h.49@trnddc04...
>>>
>>>Most people won't even know they have it. You might be eliminating some
>>>nice Jeeps in your search criteria method.
>>>
>>>tw
>>>--
>
>
> --
> __________________________________________________ ___________________
> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>
> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>
> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>
> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
> __________________________________________________ ___________________

Pete Stolz

OK. I misunderstood what you meant. My bad! Your probably right about
that. I'll have to check each one individually I suppose.
Thanks,
Pete


"twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSspam.com> wrote in message
news:zE%dh.3598$5h.732@trnddc04...
>I was just saying that by using "ABS" as a keyword in your search, you
>might be missing some nice Jeeps that _DO HAVE_ ABS because the owner just
>didn't list it, or even know it was on the Jeep. Also, ABS has become so
>standard on so many vehicles, ads just don't necessarily list them as an
>option.
>
> tw
>
> Pete Stolz wrote:
>> Oh, I'm sure you are right, but like I said in my original post, this is
>> for my daughter. She's a newby driver and we live in Wisconsin. She
>> will be taking this thing to school every day and I need to know she's
>> driving something that will stop as efficiently as possible. New drivers
>> (actually most drivers) don't have the sensitivity and presence of mind
>> to NOT just "lock 'em up" in an emergency stop. They just panic, jam on
>> the brakes and pray. ABS gives those prayers a better chance of being
>> answered. Don't want to have to test the airbag system! :)
>> Pete
>>
>> "twaldron" <twaldron@OBVIOUSspam.com> wrote in message
>> news:3DWdh.170$5h.49@trnddc04...
>>>
>>>Most people won't even know they have it. You might be eliminating some
>>>nice Jeeps in your search criteria method.
>>>
>>>tw
>>>--
>
>
> --
> __________________________________________________ ___________________
> 2003 TJ Rubicon * 2001 XJ Sport * 1971 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
>
> "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'."
>
> Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940
>
> Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
> A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80" wheelbase, 1/4-ton
> capacity and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II.
> __________________________________________________ ___________________