Soft top mounting problems
11-17-2003, 05:52 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
Lee Ayrton <layrton@ntplx.net> wrote:
> Dreary old J.C. Whitney sells real Rivitnut and Threadsert kits, but they
> are expensive. I bought one for a job, so I can write part of the cost
> off my taxes, but for a one-time hobby use...
They're available through a number of places local to me, but I was hoping
for a complete solution in kit form that would reduce the amount of time
I'd spend collecting parts and tools. It sounds like no such solution is
easily obtained, though.
> I don't think that I'd choose rivitnuts to repair this problem, though.
> The rivitnuts stand proud of the surface and might allow the strip to
> wiggle, eventually causing more problems. It will also increase the gap
> that is supposed to hold the top to the windshield and might allow it to
> pop out at speed.
I was thinking larger holes would need to be drilled into the strip I'm
trying to hold down so that it continued to sit flush against the window
frame, and then use good sized washers with the bolts screwed into the
rivnuts to hold it all down. Which wouldn't be too bad a modification to
do, I suppose, but I'll have to look into it. Aircraft structural rivets
would be cheaper than rivnuts, and probably more permanent as well.
> I'm thinking that the right way to fix it is to spring for a new
> windshield frame.
That'd increase the pricetag on the repair by an order of magnitude,
though, plus introduce the added complexity of getting the frame painted
to match the current body color. And in the end I'd still have the same
flawed design that would inevitably wear out again in a couple of years
like it did before. It sounds like I'm going to have to roll my own on
this repair. With no kits conveniently available and the prohibitive cost
of a new window frame, it's back to the drawing board with me. That's
alright, though. I've had good success with my repairs so far, so I'm
fairly confident I can make a lasting repair on this one as long as I'm
willing to give up on a search for a quick fix and just go with something
that takes a few days instead of a few hours. Thanks for all the
suggestions!
Bryan
> Dreary old J.C. Whitney sells real Rivitnut and Threadsert kits, but they
> are expensive. I bought one for a job, so I can write part of the cost
> off my taxes, but for a one-time hobby use...
They're available through a number of places local to me, but I was hoping
for a complete solution in kit form that would reduce the amount of time
I'd spend collecting parts and tools. It sounds like no such solution is
easily obtained, though.
> I don't think that I'd choose rivitnuts to repair this problem, though.
> The rivitnuts stand proud of the surface and might allow the strip to
> wiggle, eventually causing more problems. It will also increase the gap
> that is supposed to hold the top to the windshield and might allow it to
> pop out at speed.
I was thinking larger holes would need to be drilled into the strip I'm
trying to hold down so that it continued to sit flush against the window
frame, and then use good sized washers with the bolts screwed into the
rivnuts to hold it all down. Which wouldn't be too bad a modification to
do, I suppose, but I'll have to look into it. Aircraft structural rivets
would be cheaper than rivnuts, and probably more permanent as well.
> I'm thinking that the right way to fix it is to spring for a new
> windshield frame.
That'd increase the pricetag on the repair by an order of magnitude,
though, plus introduce the added complexity of getting the frame painted
to match the current body color. And in the end I'd still have the same
flawed design that would inevitably wear out again in a couple of years
like it did before. It sounds like I'm going to have to roll my own on
this repair. With no kits conveniently available and the prohibitive cost
of a new window frame, it's back to the drawing board with me. That's
alright, though. I've had good success with my repairs so far, so I'm
fairly confident I can make a lasting repair on this one as long as I'm
willing to give up on a search for a quick fix and just go with something
that takes a few days instead of a few hours. Thanks for all the
suggestions!
Bryan
11-17-2003, 05:52 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
Lee Ayrton <layrton@ntplx.net> wrote:
> Dreary old J.C. Whitney sells real Rivitnut and Threadsert kits, but they
> are expensive. I bought one for a job, so I can write part of the cost
> off my taxes, but for a one-time hobby use...
They're available through a number of places local to me, but I was hoping
for a complete solution in kit form that would reduce the amount of time
I'd spend collecting parts and tools. It sounds like no such solution is
easily obtained, though.
> I don't think that I'd choose rivitnuts to repair this problem, though.
> The rivitnuts stand proud of the surface and might allow the strip to
> wiggle, eventually causing more problems. It will also increase the gap
> that is supposed to hold the top to the windshield and might allow it to
> pop out at speed.
I was thinking larger holes would need to be drilled into the strip I'm
trying to hold down so that it continued to sit flush against the window
frame, and then use good sized washers with the bolts screwed into the
rivnuts to hold it all down. Which wouldn't be too bad a modification to
do, I suppose, but I'll have to look into it. Aircraft structural rivets
would be cheaper than rivnuts, and probably more permanent as well.
> I'm thinking that the right way to fix it is to spring for a new
> windshield frame.
That'd increase the pricetag on the repair by an order of magnitude,
though, plus introduce the added complexity of getting the frame painted
to match the current body color. And in the end I'd still have the same
flawed design that would inevitably wear out again in a couple of years
like it did before. It sounds like I'm going to have to roll my own on
this repair. With no kits conveniently available and the prohibitive cost
of a new window frame, it's back to the drawing board with me. That's
alright, though. I've had good success with my repairs so far, so I'm
fairly confident I can make a lasting repair on this one as long as I'm
willing to give up on a search for a quick fix and just go with something
that takes a few days instead of a few hours. Thanks for all the
suggestions!
Bryan
> Dreary old J.C. Whitney sells real Rivitnut and Threadsert kits, but they
> are expensive. I bought one for a job, so I can write part of the cost
> off my taxes, but for a one-time hobby use...
They're available through a number of places local to me, but I was hoping
for a complete solution in kit form that would reduce the amount of time
I'd spend collecting parts and tools. It sounds like no such solution is
easily obtained, though.
> I don't think that I'd choose rivitnuts to repair this problem, though.
> The rivitnuts stand proud of the surface and might allow the strip to
> wiggle, eventually causing more problems. It will also increase the gap
> that is supposed to hold the top to the windshield and might allow it to
> pop out at speed.
I was thinking larger holes would need to be drilled into the strip I'm
trying to hold down so that it continued to sit flush against the window
frame, and then use good sized washers with the bolts screwed into the
rivnuts to hold it all down. Which wouldn't be too bad a modification to
do, I suppose, but I'll have to look into it. Aircraft structural rivets
would be cheaper than rivnuts, and probably more permanent as well.
> I'm thinking that the right way to fix it is to spring for a new
> windshield frame.
That'd increase the pricetag on the repair by an order of magnitude,
though, plus introduce the added complexity of getting the frame painted
to match the current body color. And in the end I'd still have the same
flawed design that would inevitably wear out again in a couple of years
like it did before. It sounds like I'm going to have to roll my own on
this repair. With no kits conveniently available and the prohibitive cost
of a new window frame, it's back to the drawing board with me. That's
alright, though. I've had good success with my repairs so far, so I'm
fairly confident I can make a lasting repair on this one as long as I'm
willing to give up on a search for a quick fix and just go with something
that takes a few days instead of a few hours. Thanks for all the
suggestions!
Bryan
11-17-2003, 12:13 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:
> That'd increase the pricetag on the repair by an order of magnitude,
> though, plus introduce the added complexity of getting the frame painted
> to match the current body color. And in the end I'd still have the same
> flawed design that would inevitably wear out again in a couple of years
> like it did before. It sounds like I'm going to have to roll my own on
> this repair. With no kits conveniently available and the prohibitive cost
> of a new window frame, it's back to the drawing board with me. That's
> alright, though. I've had good success with my repairs so far, so I'm
> fairly confident I can make a lasting repair on this one as long as I'm
> willing to give up on a search for a quick fix and just go with something
> that takes a few days instead of a few hours. Thanks for all the
Weld fresh metal into the holes and continue to push metal down each
until you've got some buildup... then redrill or better yet tap the
holes for a FINE thread bolt instead of sheet metal screws.
The screws are the main reason it rips up. They only contact a tiny
portion of the metal around them, a few millimeters of the thread bites
on about a quarter of every hole. If you tap and convert to fine thread
each fastener will be able to bear a lot more tension.
You could also use JB weld, force it down the holes until you get enough
buildup to able to tap through it for a coarse thread bolt, although
this would probably be pretty tedious; I'm sure JB weld would bear the
load. By tapping like this you'd be reducing the stress on any one
single hole by a huge amount because you're no longer relying on a tiny
part of a screw contacting a small bit of the sheet metal.
Both of these would be easy, and cheap (if you have a welder, or 6 bucks
for JB weld), and IMHO either would be a lot more permanent than riveting...
11-17-2003, 12:13 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:
> That'd increase the pricetag on the repair by an order of magnitude,
> though, plus introduce the added complexity of getting the frame painted
> to match the current body color. And in the end I'd still have the same
> flawed design that would inevitably wear out again in a couple of years
> like it did before. It sounds like I'm going to have to roll my own on
> this repair. With no kits conveniently available and the prohibitive cost
> of a new window frame, it's back to the drawing board with me. That's
> alright, though. I've had good success with my repairs so far, so I'm
> fairly confident I can make a lasting repair on this one as long as I'm
> willing to give up on a search for a quick fix and just go with something
> that takes a few days instead of a few hours. Thanks for all the
Weld fresh metal into the holes and continue to push metal down each
until you've got some buildup... then redrill or better yet tap the
holes for a FINE thread bolt instead of sheet metal screws.
The screws are the main reason it rips up. They only contact a tiny
portion of the metal around them, a few millimeters of the thread bites
on about a quarter of every hole. If you tap and convert to fine thread
each fastener will be able to bear a lot more tension.
You could also use JB weld, force it down the holes until you get enough
buildup to able to tap through it for a coarse thread bolt, although
this would probably be pretty tedious; I'm sure JB weld would bear the
load. By tapping like this you'd be reducing the stress on any one
single hole by a huge amount because you're no longer relying on a tiny
part of a screw contacting a small bit of the sheet metal.
Both of these would be easy, and cheap (if you have a welder, or 6 bucks
for JB weld), and IMHO either would be a lot more permanent than riveting...
11-17-2003, 12:13 PM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
The Hurdy Gurdy Man wrote:
> That'd increase the pricetag on the repair by an order of magnitude,
> though, plus introduce the added complexity of getting the frame painted
> to match the current body color. And in the end I'd still have the same
> flawed design that would inevitably wear out again in a couple of years
> like it did before. It sounds like I'm going to have to roll my own on
> this repair. With no kits conveniently available and the prohibitive cost
> of a new window frame, it's back to the drawing board with me. That's
> alright, though. I've had good success with my repairs so far, so I'm
> fairly confident I can make a lasting repair on this one as long as I'm
> willing to give up on a search for a quick fix and just go with something
> that takes a few days instead of a few hours. Thanks for all the
Weld fresh metal into the holes and continue to push metal down each
until you've got some buildup... then redrill or better yet tap the
holes for a FINE thread bolt instead of sheet metal screws.
The screws are the main reason it rips up. They only contact a tiny
portion of the metal around them, a few millimeters of the thread bites
on about a quarter of every hole. If you tap and convert to fine thread
each fastener will be able to bear a lot more tension.
You could also use JB weld, force it down the holes until you get enough
buildup to able to tap through it for a coarse thread bolt, although
this would probably be pretty tedious; I'm sure JB weld would bear the
load. By tapping like this you'd be reducing the stress on any one
single hole by a huge amount because you're no longer relying on a tiny
part of a screw contacting a small bit of the sheet metal.
Both of these would be easy, and cheap (if you have a welder, or 6 bucks
for JB weld), and IMHO either would be a lot more permanent than riveting...
11-17-2003, 02:16 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
Sheesh!!!!!
Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tookie - 88YJ,"Money Hungry"
4" lift, 33" TSLs, Lock-Rights
PosiLock, 4.10s
Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tookie - 88YJ,"Money Hungry"
4" lift, 33" TSLs, Lock-Rights
PosiLock, 4.10s
11-17-2003, 02:16 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
Sheesh!!!!!
Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tookie - 88YJ,"Money Hungry"
4" lift, 33" TSLs, Lock-Rights
PosiLock, 4.10s
Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tookie - 88YJ,"Money Hungry"
4" lift, 33" TSLs, Lock-Rights
PosiLock, 4.10s
11-17-2003, 02:16 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
Sheesh!!!!!
Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tookie - 88YJ,"Money Hungry"
4" lift, 33" TSLs, Lock-Rights
PosiLock, 4.10s
Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tookie - 88YJ,"Money Hungry"
4" lift, 33" TSLs, Lock-Rights
PosiLock, 4.10s
11-17-2003, 06:15 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
Tookie <tookie_nospam@***.net> wrote:
> Sheesh!!!!!
> Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
> drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
> with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
> anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obviously you've never had to repair something for my brother! He has an
almost magical (or perhaps cursed) ability to have things break around him,
whether he touches them or not. This roof rail thing is a perfect example
of that. Other examples include every other car he has owned, every piece
of home entertainment gear he's used, computers, kitchen equipment,
plumbing... heck, even his keychain fob just broke in a totally unexpected
way!
I tell ya, the boy's jinxed. I generally get to fix things for him since
most people just throw a fairly simple patch onto things, or replace a part
with an identical part that has the same "design defects" which he can
somehow magically locate and trigger. The Jeep is the ONLY vehicle he's
ever owned that has been able to survive his curse enough to keep on
driving... a testamonial to Jeep ruggedness, for certain. Still, in this
case the rail on the window frame needs an improved fastening design, hence
my ---- and exhaustive search. Just drilling new holes won't survive...
that's an identical repair to one I tried in the past, and it held for
about a year and a half. I want this one to be permanent. He knows he's
cursed, and so he gets visibly nervous around stuff that has broken before
out of fear that it'll break again. I want him to look at it and feel
confident it's not going to fail. It's more a point of personal pride than
anything else, I think. For anyone else your suggestion would work just
fine... but trust me, for my brother, I'd be revisiting the repair in a
very short span of time!
Bryan
> Sheesh!!!!!
> Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
> drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
> with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
> anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obviously you've never had to repair something for my brother! He has an
almost magical (or perhaps cursed) ability to have things break around him,
whether he touches them or not. This roof rail thing is a perfect example
of that. Other examples include every other car he has owned, every piece
of home entertainment gear he's used, computers, kitchen equipment,
plumbing... heck, even his keychain fob just broke in a totally unexpected
way!
I tell ya, the boy's jinxed. I generally get to fix things for him since
most people just throw a fairly simple patch onto things, or replace a part
with an identical part that has the same "design defects" which he can
somehow magically locate and trigger. The Jeep is the ONLY vehicle he's
ever owned that has been able to survive his curse enough to keep on
driving... a testamonial to Jeep ruggedness, for certain. Still, in this
case the rail on the window frame needs an improved fastening design, hence
my ---- and exhaustive search. Just drilling new holes won't survive...
that's an identical repair to one I tried in the past, and it held for
about a year and a half. I want this one to be permanent. He knows he's
cursed, and so he gets visibly nervous around stuff that has broken before
out of fear that it'll break again. I want him to look at it and feel
confident it's not going to fail. It's more a point of personal pride than
anything else, I think. For anyone else your suggestion would work just
fine... but trust me, for my brother, I'd be revisiting the repair in a
very short span of time!
Bryan
11-17-2003, 06:15 PM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Soft top mounting problems
Tookie <tookie_nospam@***.net> wrote:
> Sheesh!!!!!
> Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
> drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
> with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
> anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obviously you've never had to repair something for my brother! He has an
almost magical (or perhaps cursed) ability to have things break around him,
whether he touches them or not. This roof rail thing is a perfect example
of that. Other examples include every other car he has owned, every piece
of home entertainment gear he's used, computers, kitchen equipment,
plumbing... heck, even his keychain fob just broke in a totally unexpected
way!
I tell ya, the boy's jinxed. I generally get to fix things for him since
most people just throw a fairly simple patch onto things, or replace a part
with an identical part that has the same "design defects" which he can
somehow magically locate and trigger. The Jeep is the ONLY vehicle he's
ever owned that has been able to survive his curse enough to keep on
driving... a testamonial to Jeep ruggedness, for certain. Still, in this
case the rail on the window frame needs an improved fastening design, hence
my ---- and exhaustive search. Just drilling new holes won't survive...
that's an identical repair to one I tried in the past, and it held for
about a year and a half. I want this one to be permanent. He knows he's
cursed, and so he gets visibly nervous around stuff that has broken before
out of fear that it'll break again. I want him to look at it and feel
confident it's not going to fail. It's more a point of personal pride than
anything else, I think. For anyone else your suggestion would work just
fine... but trust me, for my brother, I'd be revisiting the repair in a
very short span of time!
Bryan
> Sheesh!!!!!
> Just measure 1" (or 1/2") over from the holes that are there already,
> drill a new hole in the frame for some new screws, then do the same
> with the channel. The old holes? Leave em alone, they won't hurt
> anything. Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obviously you've never had to repair something for my brother! He has an
almost magical (or perhaps cursed) ability to have things break around him,
whether he touches them or not. This roof rail thing is a perfect example
of that. Other examples include every other car he has owned, every piece
of home entertainment gear he's used, computers, kitchen equipment,
plumbing... heck, even his keychain fob just broke in a totally unexpected
way!
I tell ya, the boy's jinxed. I generally get to fix things for him since
most people just throw a fairly simple patch onto things, or replace a part
with an identical part that has the same "design defects" which he can
somehow magically locate and trigger. The Jeep is the ONLY vehicle he's
ever owned that has been able to survive his curse enough to keep on
driving... a testamonial to Jeep ruggedness, for certain. Still, in this
case the rail on the window frame needs an improved fastening design, hence
my ---- and exhaustive search. Just drilling new holes won't survive...
that's an identical repair to one I tried in the past, and it held for
about a year and a half. I want this one to be permanent. He knows he's
cursed, and so he gets visibly nervous around stuff that has broken before
out of fear that it'll break again. I want him to look at it and feel
confident it's not going to fail. It's more a point of personal pride than
anything else, I think. For anyone else your suggestion would work just
fine... but trust me, for my brother, I'd be revisiting the repair in a
very short span of time!
Bryan