Scrambler opinions ?
09-14-2003, 10:48 AM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
There's conflicting reports about this, last I read (Automotive News) is
that the project is on for release in Fall of 04 as an 05 model.
Per Automotive News, DC is under pressure to increase the Jeep brand's sales
volume significantly and is exploring development of a super-lux SUVabove
the GC and more niche vehicles, especially TJ derivatives like the Rubicon
and the Scrambler idea.
Unfortunately, to get the sales they're looking for there's the all too
likely chance that DC and their "brand managers" may take Jeep into a lot of
dumbed-down non-Jeep products like the Liberty fiasco. Yeah, I know it's
selling, but it sure ain't a Jeep and the better it and its irs front end do
the worse it can be for Jeep products overall.
"Big Daddy" <NoWay@NoBusiness.com> wrote in message
news:3f63f897$0$43888$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> jduchock@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> > If it is like my 83 CJ8, I might decide to get one. Just have to wait
and
> > see what DC puts out.
>
> I seem to remember reading that DC has cancelled the Scrambler project. I
> think I read it in Motor Trend.
that the project is on for release in Fall of 04 as an 05 model.
Per Automotive News, DC is under pressure to increase the Jeep brand's sales
volume significantly and is exploring development of a super-lux SUVabove
the GC and more niche vehicles, especially TJ derivatives like the Rubicon
and the Scrambler idea.
Unfortunately, to get the sales they're looking for there's the all too
likely chance that DC and their "brand managers" may take Jeep into a lot of
dumbed-down non-Jeep products like the Liberty fiasco. Yeah, I know it's
selling, but it sure ain't a Jeep and the better it and its irs front end do
the worse it can be for Jeep products overall.
"Big Daddy" <NoWay@NoBusiness.com> wrote in message
news:3f63f897$0$43888$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> jduchock@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> > If it is like my 83 CJ8, I might decide to get one. Just have to wait
and
> > see what DC puts out.
>
> I seem to remember reading that DC has cancelled the Scrambler project. I
> think I read it in Motor Trend.
09-14-2003, 01:08 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
SP Cook wrote:
> OK everybody has seen the spy photos. Apparently D-C will keep the
> Toledo line at full song with a revival of the old Scrambler (may not
> be called that) from the AMC days.
>
> Two seats with a removable hardtop/cab. Aftermarket soft tops similar
> to the "bikini tops". Bed is a "real" truck bed with a hard front
> just behing the seat. Two lengths. 100% interchangable with Wrangler
> in mechanics and in body pannels back to the start of the bed. Lux
> version has a wood lined bed.
>
> Opinions?
Didn't the CJ8 have versions with a back seat and full top? Or were the ones
I've seen outfitted with aftermarket rear seats and tops?
Problem with a Scrambler with no back seat is that it's not really useful
enough as a truck because of its size and most truck buyers tell you to
never buy a truck that isn't at least and extended cab so you can have
somewhere to stow your stuff. So it loses points for both of these reasons.
However, the longer wheelbase makes it a more stable vehicle to drive at
speed. You don't dare drive too fast in a Wrangler when the roads are
slippery. Also, as far as offroading goes, the added wheelbase certainly
does come in handy, especially for some of those really high lifts and the
photos show it with a bobbed tail to boot.
> OK everybody has seen the spy photos. Apparently D-C will keep the
> Toledo line at full song with a revival of the old Scrambler (may not
> be called that) from the AMC days.
>
> Two seats with a removable hardtop/cab. Aftermarket soft tops similar
> to the "bikini tops". Bed is a "real" truck bed with a hard front
> just behing the seat. Two lengths. 100% interchangable with Wrangler
> in mechanics and in body pannels back to the start of the bed. Lux
> version has a wood lined bed.
>
> Opinions?
Didn't the CJ8 have versions with a back seat and full top? Or were the ones
I've seen outfitted with aftermarket rear seats and tops?
Problem with a Scrambler with no back seat is that it's not really useful
enough as a truck because of its size and most truck buyers tell you to
never buy a truck that isn't at least and extended cab so you can have
somewhere to stow your stuff. So it loses points for both of these reasons.
However, the longer wheelbase makes it a more stable vehicle to drive at
speed. You don't dare drive too fast in a Wrangler when the roads are
slippery. Also, as far as offroading goes, the added wheelbase certainly
does come in handy, especially for some of those really high lifts and the
photos show it with a bobbed tail to boot.
09-14-2003, 01:08 PM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
SP Cook wrote:
> OK everybody has seen the spy photos. Apparently D-C will keep the
> Toledo line at full song with a revival of the old Scrambler (may not
> be called that) from the AMC days.
>
> Two seats with a removable hardtop/cab. Aftermarket soft tops similar
> to the "bikini tops". Bed is a "real" truck bed with a hard front
> just behing the seat. Two lengths. 100% interchangable with Wrangler
> in mechanics and in body pannels back to the start of the bed. Lux
> version has a wood lined bed.
>
> Opinions?
Didn't the CJ8 have versions with a back seat and full top? Or were the ones
I've seen outfitted with aftermarket rear seats and tops?
Problem with a Scrambler with no back seat is that it's not really useful
enough as a truck because of its size and most truck buyers tell you to
never buy a truck that isn't at least and extended cab so you can have
somewhere to stow your stuff. So it loses points for both of these reasons.
However, the longer wheelbase makes it a more stable vehicle to drive at
speed. You don't dare drive too fast in a Wrangler when the roads are
slippery. Also, as far as offroading goes, the added wheelbase certainly
does come in handy, especially for some of those really high lifts and the
photos show it with a bobbed tail to boot.
> OK everybody has seen the spy photos. Apparently D-C will keep the
> Toledo line at full song with a revival of the old Scrambler (may not
> be called that) from the AMC days.
>
> Two seats with a removable hardtop/cab. Aftermarket soft tops similar
> to the "bikini tops". Bed is a "real" truck bed with a hard front
> just behing the seat. Two lengths. 100% interchangable with Wrangler
> in mechanics and in body pannels back to the start of the bed. Lux
> version has a wood lined bed.
>
> Opinions?
Didn't the CJ8 have versions with a back seat and full top? Or were the ones
I've seen outfitted with aftermarket rear seats and tops?
Problem with a Scrambler with no back seat is that it's not really useful
enough as a truck because of its size and most truck buyers tell you to
never buy a truck that isn't at least and extended cab so you can have
somewhere to stow your stuff. So it loses points for both of these reasons.
However, the longer wheelbase makes it a more stable vehicle to drive at
speed. You don't dare drive too fast in a Wrangler when the roads are
slippery. Also, as far as offroading goes, the added wheelbase certainly
does come in handy, especially for some of those really high lifts and the
photos show it with a bobbed tail to boot.
09-14-2003, 01:11 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
jduchock@bellsouth.net wrote:
> If it is like my 83 CJ8, I might decide to get one. Just have to wait and
> see what DC puts out.
I seem to remember reading that DC has cancelled the Scrambler project. I
think I read it in Motor Trend.
> If it is like my 83 CJ8, I might decide to get one. Just have to wait and
> see what DC puts out.
I seem to remember reading that DC has cancelled the Scrambler project. I
think I read it in Motor Trend.
09-14-2003, 01:11 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
jduchock@bellsouth.net wrote:
> If it is like my 83 CJ8, I might decide to get one. Just have to wait and
> see what DC puts out.
I seem to remember reading that DC has cancelled the Scrambler project. I
think I read it in Motor Trend.
> If it is like my 83 CJ8, I might decide to get one. Just have to wait and
> see what DC puts out.
I seem to remember reading that DC has cancelled the Scrambler project. I
think I read it in Motor Trend.
09-15-2003, 05:10 AM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
Gerald G. McGeorge wrote:
> There's conflicting reports about this, last I read (Automotive News) is
> that the project is on for release in Fall of 04 as an 05 model.
There's been rumors for sometime that the TJ will be getting a significant
remake for the '05 model. Some have speculated the demise of the 4.0 I6 in
favor of the 3.7 V6 in the Liberty. I don't know if it will be a change in
model such as the YJ->TJ jump or if it's just a lot of mechanical changes.
I've yet to hear more about it. With that in mind, if it is true, I doubt
they'll roll out a Scrambler at that time.
> Per Automotive News, DC is under pressure to increase the Jeep brand's
> sales volume significantly and is exploring development of a super-lux
> SUVabove the GC and more niche vehicles, especially TJ derivatives like
> the Rubicon and the Scrambler idea.
>
> Unfortunately, to get the sales they're looking for there's the all too
> likely chance that DC and their "brand managers" may take Jeep into a lot
> of dumbed-down non-Jeep products like the Liberty fiasco. Yeah, I know
> it's selling, but it sure ain't a Jeep and the better it and its irs front
> end do the worse it can be for Jeep products overall.
I wonder if they ever consided what such products do to the Jeep mistique in
the long haul and if it's worth it. Jeep needs to be about capable off-road
vehicles. We don't need Mercedes/Mitsubishi/Chrysler hybrids to kill of
what is truely Jeep.
If they ever hurt the off-road prowess of the Wrangler with lousy engines
like the 3.7 or IFS, I'll be so pissed off I'll never buy another DC
product ever again! Sadly, I feel like it's coming...
> There's conflicting reports about this, last I read (Automotive News) is
> that the project is on for release in Fall of 04 as an 05 model.
There's been rumors for sometime that the TJ will be getting a significant
remake for the '05 model. Some have speculated the demise of the 4.0 I6 in
favor of the 3.7 V6 in the Liberty. I don't know if it will be a change in
model such as the YJ->TJ jump or if it's just a lot of mechanical changes.
I've yet to hear more about it. With that in mind, if it is true, I doubt
they'll roll out a Scrambler at that time.
> Per Automotive News, DC is under pressure to increase the Jeep brand's
> sales volume significantly and is exploring development of a super-lux
> SUVabove the GC and more niche vehicles, especially TJ derivatives like
> the Rubicon and the Scrambler idea.
>
> Unfortunately, to get the sales they're looking for there's the all too
> likely chance that DC and their "brand managers" may take Jeep into a lot
> of dumbed-down non-Jeep products like the Liberty fiasco. Yeah, I know
> it's selling, but it sure ain't a Jeep and the better it and its irs front
> end do the worse it can be for Jeep products overall.
I wonder if they ever consided what such products do to the Jeep mistique in
the long haul and if it's worth it. Jeep needs to be about capable off-road
vehicles. We don't need Mercedes/Mitsubishi/Chrysler hybrids to kill of
what is truely Jeep.
If they ever hurt the off-road prowess of the Wrangler with lousy engines
like the 3.7 or IFS, I'll be so pissed off I'll never buy another DC
product ever again! Sadly, I feel like it's coming...
09-15-2003, 05:10 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
Gerald G. McGeorge wrote:
> There's conflicting reports about this, last I read (Automotive News) is
> that the project is on for release in Fall of 04 as an 05 model.
There's been rumors for sometime that the TJ will be getting a significant
remake for the '05 model. Some have speculated the demise of the 4.0 I6 in
favor of the 3.7 V6 in the Liberty. I don't know if it will be a change in
model such as the YJ->TJ jump or if it's just a lot of mechanical changes.
I've yet to hear more about it. With that in mind, if it is true, I doubt
they'll roll out a Scrambler at that time.
> Per Automotive News, DC is under pressure to increase the Jeep brand's
> sales volume significantly and is exploring development of a super-lux
> SUVabove the GC and more niche vehicles, especially TJ derivatives like
> the Rubicon and the Scrambler idea.
>
> Unfortunately, to get the sales they're looking for there's the all too
> likely chance that DC and their "brand managers" may take Jeep into a lot
> of dumbed-down non-Jeep products like the Liberty fiasco. Yeah, I know
> it's selling, but it sure ain't a Jeep and the better it and its irs front
> end do the worse it can be for Jeep products overall.
I wonder if they ever consided what such products do to the Jeep mistique in
the long haul and if it's worth it. Jeep needs to be about capable off-road
vehicles. We don't need Mercedes/Mitsubishi/Chrysler hybrids to kill of
what is truely Jeep.
If they ever hurt the off-road prowess of the Wrangler with lousy engines
like the 3.7 or IFS, I'll be so pissed off I'll never buy another DC
product ever again! Sadly, I feel like it's coming...
> There's conflicting reports about this, last I read (Automotive News) is
> that the project is on for release in Fall of 04 as an 05 model.
There's been rumors for sometime that the TJ will be getting a significant
remake for the '05 model. Some have speculated the demise of the 4.0 I6 in
favor of the 3.7 V6 in the Liberty. I don't know if it will be a change in
model such as the YJ->TJ jump or if it's just a lot of mechanical changes.
I've yet to hear more about it. With that in mind, if it is true, I doubt
they'll roll out a Scrambler at that time.
> Per Automotive News, DC is under pressure to increase the Jeep brand's
> sales volume significantly and is exploring development of a super-lux
> SUVabove the GC and more niche vehicles, especially TJ derivatives like
> the Rubicon and the Scrambler idea.
>
> Unfortunately, to get the sales they're looking for there's the all too
> likely chance that DC and their "brand managers" may take Jeep into a lot
> of dumbed-down non-Jeep products like the Liberty fiasco. Yeah, I know
> it's selling, but it sure ain't a Jeep and the better it and its irs front
> end do the worse it can be for Jeep products overall.
I wonder if they ever consided what such products do to the Jeep mistique in
the long haul and if it's worth it. Jeep needs to be about capable off-road
vehicles. We don't need Mercedes/Mitsubishi/Chrysler hybrids to kill of
what is truely Jeep.
If they ever hurt the off-road prowess of the Wrangler with lousy engines
like the 3.7 or IFS, I'll be so pissed off I'll never buy another DC
product ever again! Sadly, I feel like it's coming...
09-15-2003, 06:59 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
"Big Daddy" <NoWay@NoBusiness.com> wrote in message
news:3f64d926$0$12622$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> Gerald G. McGeorge wrote:
>
> I wonder if they ever consided what such products do to the Jeep mistique
in
> the long haul and if it's worth it. Jeep needs to be about capable
off-road
> vehicles. We don't need Mercedes/Mitsubishi/Chrysler hybrids to kill of
> what is truely Jeep.
>
> If they ever hurt the off-road prowess of the Wrangler with lousy engines
> like the 3.7 or IFS, I'll be so pissed off I'll never buy another DC
> product ever again! Sadly, I feel like it's coming...
At the rate DC is losing money, they might be better served selling the
Jeep line to someone who will continue it as a niche product, rather
than mainstreaming it.
09-15-2003, 06:59 PM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
"Big Daddy" <NoWay@NoBusiness.com> wrote in message
news:3f64d926$0$12622$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> Gerald G. McGeorge wrote:
>
> I wonder if they ever consided what such products do to the Jeep mistique
in
> the long haul and if it's worth it. Jeep needs to be about capable
off-road
> vehicles. We don't need Mercedes/Mitsubishi/Chrysler hybrids to kill of
> what is truely Jeep.
>
> If they ever hurt the off-road prowess of the Wrangler with lousy engines
> like the 3.7 or IFS, I'll be so pissed off I'll never buy another DC
> product ever again! Sadly, I feel like it's coming...
At the rate DC is losing money, they might be better served selling the
Jeep line to someone who will continue it as a niche product, rather
than mainstreaming it.
09-15-2003, 08:04 PM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Scrambler opinions ?
Approximately 9/15/03 16:35, Gerald G. McGeorge uttered for posterity:
> Uhh, I appreciate the quote but I didn't write that. However, whoever did
> has a point!
>
> With the Daimler folks in charge it's hard to say which way this will go.
> They clearly know about performance CARS, and the G-Wagen shows they have a
> certain clue about off road vehicles. However tossing the Cherokee in favor
> of the Liberty made me go "WHAT!!!???". I mean, they could have sold the
> Liberty with a different grille as a Dodge or something and done a proper
> upgrade of the Cherokee, which I'm told was in the product plan.
>
> Put IFS on the TJ replacement and it's a goner product with the core Jeep
> buyers. (Be like putting a water cooled flat four on a Harley.) Automotive
> News ran a piece awhile back that hinted the solid axle will be retained on
> the Grand Cherokee replacement because they couldn't get acceptable off road
> performance from the IFS they were planning. Watch this space....
>
I could even see DC splitting off the stuff like the
Grand Cherokee and the upmarket Grand Cherokee and making
them under the Chrysler brand name for the USofA. Their
interior is more like a Chrysler luxo anyway. The Dodge
Durango doesn't seem to be eating into this market at all.
The problem seems to be that DC has one valued nameplate,
that of Jeep, and seems unable to figure out that turning
it out on the corners to turn tricks isn't exactly gonna
preserve the value of that name except with the fur hat
and ermine coat set.
> Uhh, I appreciate the quote but I didn't write that. However, whoever did
> has a point!
>
> With the Daimler folks in charge it's hard to say which way this will go.
> They clearly know about performance CARS, and the G-Wagen shows they have a
> certain clue about off road vehicles. However tossing the Cherokee in favor
> of the Liberty made me go "WHAT!!!???". I mean, they could have sold the
> Liberty with a different grille as a Dodge or something and done a proper
> upgrade of the Cherokee, which I'm told was in the product plan.
>
> Put IFS on the TJ replacement and it's a goner product with the core Jeep
> buyers. (Be like putting a water cooled flat four on a Harley.) Automotive
> News ran a piece awhile back that hinted the solid axle will be retained on
> the Grand Cherokee replacement because they couldn't get acceptable off road
> performance from the IFS they were planning. Watch this space....
>
I could even see DC splitting off the stuff like the
Grand Cherokee and the upmarket Grand Cherokee and making
them under the Chrysler brand name for the USofA. Their
interior is more like a Chrysler luxo anyway. The Dodge
Durango doesn't seem to be eating into this market at all.
The problem seems to be that DC has one valued nameplate,
that of Jeep, and seems unable to figure out that turning
it out on the corners to turn tricks isn't exactly gonna
preserve the value of that name except with the fur hat
and ermine coat set.
