Mike Romain

Hold on now, I read that again.....

It would appear that your $tealership wants over a grand to fix a dirty
connection?????

I would pull the plug on the connection and clean it with contact
cleaner and then fill it with dielectric grease and put it back and see
what happens. If the pins are too corroded to work with, then I would
replace the plug and socket with a generic one.

You could even use WD40 for a cleaner, but real electronic contact
cleaner is best.

Mike


Mike Romain wrote:
>
> That takes the word 'stealership' to a whole new dimension.
>
> I would try to go with a choke cable or an indexed bicycle shifter for
> the control like they can do on the YJ's...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Don Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > Well I took my out of warranty (55,000 miles) 05 Rubicon to the dealer to
> > get the non locking front locker checked out (just flashes will not engage).
> > The diagnosis of the problem is a bad actuator and wiring connector. The
> > actuator is not covered by the 7/70,000 drive train warranty. Then I was
> > then told it would take 8 or 9 hours of labor @$75 and $400 in parts to
> > repair. This seems outrageous to me. Any advise?

Mike Romain

Hold on now, I read that again.....

It would appear that your $tealership wants over a grand to fix a dirty
connection?????

I would pull the plug on the connection and clean it with contact
cleaner and then fill it with dielectric grease and put it back and see
what happens. If the pins are too corroded to work with, then I would
replace the plug and socket with a generic one.

You could even use WD40 for a cleaner, but real electronic contact
cleaner is best.

Mike


Mike Romain wrote:
>
> That takes the word 'stealership' to a whole new dimension.
>
> I would try to go with a choke cable or an indexed bicycle shifter for
> the control like they can do on the YJ's...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Don Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > Well I took my out of warranty (55,000 miles) 05 Rubicon to the dealer to
> > get the non locking front locker checked out (just flashes will not engage).
> > The diagnosis of the problem is a bad actuator and wiring connector. The
> > actuator is not covered by the 7/70,000 drive train warranty. Then I was
> > then told it would take 8 or 9 hours of labor @$75 and $400 in parts to
> > repair. This seems outrageous to me. Any advise?

Mike Romain

Hold on now, I read that again.....

It would appear that your $tealership wants over a grand to fix a dirty
connection?????

I would pull the plug on the connection and clean it with contact
cleaner and then fill it with dielectric grease and put it back and see
what happens. If the pins are too corroded to work with, then I would
replace the plug and socket with a generic one.

You could even use WD40 for a cleaner, but real electronic contact
cleaner is best.

Mike


Mike Romain wrote:
>
> That takes the word 'stealership' to a whole new dimension.
>
> I would try to go with a choke cable or an indexed bicycle shifter for
> the control like they can do on the YJ's...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Don Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > Well I took my out of warranty (55,000 miles) 05 Rubicon to the dealer to
> > get the non locking front locker checked out (just flashes will not engage).
> > The diagnosis of the problem is a bad actuator and wiring connector. The
> > actuator is not covered by the 7/70,000 drive train warranty. Then I was
> > then told it would take 8 or 9 hours of labor @$75 and $400 in parts to
> > repair. This seems outrageous to me. Any advise?

swbell

There is no wiring inside the diff - it is a simple plunger switch that
threads into the diff housing from outside.

The actuator is a different story altogether. You need to pull the axles
and remove the carrier to replace it.

Before I let them mess with it, I would get a simple hand vacuum device (any
parts store) and test the actuator with it. Disconnect the smaller hose
attached to the diff - the big one is the vent. Attach the hand vacuum's
OUTPUT port and give it a squeeze. Make sure you have air pressure coming
out of the hand vacuum. Check to see if it holds pressure. You can raise
one tire off the ground, then turn it to see if the locker locks and unlocks
when applying air pressure. These lockers are low pressure, so you should
only need 5-10 lbs.

If the locker actuates while you turn the tire, your problem is in the pump
mounted on the skid plate - not inside the diff.

If you hear a lot of popping and grinding noise, but the locker does not
lock the tire, OR the tire continues to spin freely, the problem is inside
the diff. Try pushing on the actuator plate with a screwdriver by removing
the actuator switch. Pushing in with a small amount of force should lock
the axle.

I think the labor hours are high, because the repair does not require
removal of the pinion. Removing the pinion is a job that requires extra
time and skill. Removing the axles on both sides should take about 45
minutes. The diff needs to be drained. You need to remove the brake
calipers, caliper mounting plate, wheel bearing assembly. Sometimes a torch
is needed to remove the caliper mounting plate, but none of this is rocket
science. You need to remove the tie rod at the driver side steering yoke.

Once the axles are removed, the carrier needs to be removed. A dealership
should be able to pop this out in 30 minutes or less. They should have a
case ------er to make this go smoothly. The carrier needs to be repaired.
This should also take an hour or less.

Carrier needs to be put back in the diff. Bearings need to be checked for
proper shims - this should not really change. Care taken to make sure the
hole in the actuator plate lines up with the actuator switch so you don't
have to do the job twice.

An entire diff carrier with actuator lists for $645. This does not include
a ring gear. I don't know if the actuator has a separate part number. It
seems impossible that this part would not be covered by the drive train
warranty. It is a vital part of the drive train, and it has failed.

In any case I doubt that the labor should take more than four hours with an
experienced mechanic that knows what the inside of a diff looks like.

I'd say that the dealership is estimating high by 200 to 300 dollars. This
is a big job. If the parts are only $400, that is not bad. If you can find
a local axle shop that thinks they can repair your actuator, you might save
some money, but you may be looking at $400 in labor plus parts.

Paul Nelson


in article 12kl98vapvbt881@corp.supernews.com, Don Hamilton at
cdhamil@excite.com wrote on 11/2/06 8:10 PM:

> Well I took my out of warranty (55,000 miles) 05 Rubicon to the dealer to
> get the non locking front locker checked out (just flashes will not engage).
> The diagnosis of the problem is a bad actuator and wiring connector. The
> actuator is not covered by the 7/70,000 drive train warranty. Then I was
> then told it would take 8 or 9 hours of labor @$75 and $400 in parts to
> repair. This seems outrageous to me. Any advise?
>
>

swbell

There is no wiring inside the diff - it is a simple plunger switch that
threads into the diff housing from outside.

The actuator is a different story altogether. You need to pull the axles
and remove the carrier to replace it.

Before I let them mess with it, I would get a simple hand vacuum device (any
parts store) and test the actuator with it. Disconnect the smaller hose
attached to the diff - the big one is the vent. Attach the hand vacuum's
OUTPUT port and give it a squeeze. Make sure you have air pressure coming
out of the hand vacuum. Check to see if it holds pressure. You can raise
one tire off the ground, then turn it to see if the locker locks and unlocks
when applying air pressure. These lockers are low pressure, so you should
only need 5-10 lbs.

If the locker actuates while you turn the tire, your problem is in the pump
mounted on the skid plate - not inside the diff.

If you hear a lot of popping and grinding noise, but the locker does not
lock the tire, OR the tire continues to spin freely, the problem is inside
the diff. Try pushing on the actuator plate with a screwdriver by removing
the actuator switch. Pushing in with a small amount of force should lock
the axle.

I think the labor hours are high, because the repair does not require
removal of the pinion. Removing the pinion is a job that requires extra
time and skill. Removing the axles on both sides should take about 45
minutes. The diff needs to be drained. You need to remove the brake
calipers, caliper mounting plate, wheel bearing assembly. Sometimes a torch
is needed to remove the caliper mounting plate, but none of this is rocket
science. You need to remove the tie rod at the driver side steering yoke.

Once the axles are removed, the carrier needs to be removed. A dealership
should be able to pop this out in 30 minutes or less. They should have a
case ------er to make this go smoothly. The carrier needs to be repaired.
This should also take an hour or less.

Carrier needs to be put back in the diff. Bearings need to be checked for
proper shims - this should not really change. Care taken to make sure the
hole in the actuator plate lines up with the actuator switch so you don't
have to do the job twice.

An entire diff carrier with actuator lists for $645. This does not include
a ring gear. I don't know if the actuator has a separate part number. It
seems impossible that this part would not be covered by the drive train
warranty. It is a vital part of the drive train, and it has failed.

In any case I doubt that the labor should take more than four hours with an
experienced mechanic that knows what the inside of a diff looks like.

I'd say that the dealership is estimating high by 200 to 300 dollars. This
is a big job. If the parts are only $400, that is not bad. If you can find
a local axle shop that thinks they can repair your actuator, you might save
some money, but you may be looking at $400 in labor plus parts.

Paul Nelson


in article 12kl98vapvbt881@corp.supernews.com, Don Hamilton at
cdhamil@excite.com wrote on 11/2/06 8:10 PM:

> Well I took my out of warranty (55,000 miles) 05 Rubicon to the dealer to
> get the non locking front locker checked out (just flashes will not engage).
> The diagnosis of the problem is a bad actuator and wiring connector. The
> actuator is not covered by the 7/70,000 drive train warranty. Then I was
> then told it would take 8 or 9 hours of labor @$75 and $400 in parts to
> repair. This seems outrageous to me. Any advise?
>
>

swbell

There is no wiring inside the diff - it is a simple plunger switch that
threads into the diff housing from outside.

The actuator is a different story altogether. You need to pull the axles
and remove the carrier to replace it.

Before I let them mess with it, I would get a simple hand vacuum device (any
parts store) and test the actuator with it. Disconnect the smaller hose
attached to the diff - the big one is the vent. Attach the hand vacuum's
OUTPUT port and give it a squeeze. Make sure you have air pressure coming
out of the hand vacuum. Check to see if it holds pressure. You can raise
one tire off the ground, then turn it to see if the locker locks and unlocks
when applying air pressure. These lockers are low pressure, so you should
only need 5-10 lbs.

If the locker actuates while you turn the tire, your problem is in the pump
mounted on the skid plate - not inside the diff.

If you hear a lot of popping and grinding noise, but the locker does not
lock the tire, OR the tire continues to spin freely, the problem is inside
the diff. Try pushing on the actuator plate with a screwdriver by removing
the actuator switch. Pushing in with a small amount of force should lock
the axle.

I think the labor hours are high, because the repair does not require
removal of the pinion. Removing the pinion is a job that requires extra
time and skill. Removing the axles on both sides should take about 45
minutes. The diff needs to be drained. You need to remove the brake
calipers, caliper mounting plate, wheel bearing assembly. Sometimes a torch
is needed to remove the caliper mounting plate, but none of this is rocket
science. You need to remove the tie rod at the driver side steering yoke.

Once the axles are removed, the carrier needs to be removed. A dealership
should be able to pop this out in 30 minutes or less. They should have a
case ------er to make this go smoothly. The carrier needs to be repaired.
This should also take an hour or less.

Carrier needs to be put back in the diff. Bearings need to be checked for
proper shims - this should not really change. Care taken to make sure the
hole in the actuator plate lines up with the actuator switch so you don't
have to do the job twice.

An entire diff carrier with actuator lists for $645. This does not include
a ring gear. I don't know if the actuator has a separate part number. It
seems impossible that this part would not be covered by the drive train
warranty. It is a vital part of the drive train, and it has failed.

In any case I doubt that the labor should take more than four hours with an
experienced mechanic that knows what the inside of a diff looks like.

I'd say that the dealership is estimating high by 200 to 300 dollars. This
is a big job. If the parts are only $400, that is not bad. If you can find
a local axle shop that thinks they can repair your actuator, you might save
some money, but you may be looking at $400 in labor plus parts.

Paul Nelson


in article 12kl98vapvbt881@corp.supernews.com, Don Hamilton at
cdhamil@excite.com wrote on 11/2/06 8:10 PM:

> Well I took my out of warranty (55,000 miles) 05 Rubicon to the dealer to
> get the non locking front locker checked out (just flashes will not engage).
> The diagnosis of the problem is a bad actuator and wiring connector. The
> actuator is not covered by the 7/70,000 drive train warranty. Then I was
> then told it would take 8 or 9 hours of labor @$75 and $400 in parts to
> repair. This seems outrageous to me. Any advise?
>
>

Don Hamilton

"swbell" <kerygma2@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:C170DA5A.537F1%kerygma2@swbell.net...
> There is no wiring inside the diff - it is a simple plunger switch that
> threads into the diff housing from outside.
>
> The actuator is a different story altogether. You need to pull the axles
> and remove the carrier to replace it.
>
> Before I let them mess with it, I would get a simple hand vacuum device
> (any
> parts store) and test the actuator with it. Disconnect the smaller hose
> attached to the diff - the big one is the vent. Attach the hand vacuum's
> OUTPUT port and give it a squeeze. Make sure you have air pressure coming
> out of the hand vacuum. Check to see if it holds pressure. You can raise
> one tire off the ground, then turn it to see if the locker locks and
> unlocks
> when applying air pressure. These lockers are low pressure, so you should
> only need 5-10 lbs.
>
> If the locker actuates while you turn the tire, your problem is in the
> pump
> mounted on the skid plate - not inside the diff.
>
> If you hear a lot of popping and grinding noise, but the locker does not
> lock the tire, OR the tire continues to spin freely, the problem is inside
> the diff. Try pushing on the actuator plate with a screwdriver by
> removing
> the actuator switch. Pushing in with a small amount of force should lock
> the axle.
>
> I think the labor hours are high, because the repair does not require
> removal of the pinion. Removing the pinion is a job that requires extra
> time and skill. Removing the axles on both sides should take about 45
> minutes. The diff needs to be drained. You need to remove the brake
> calipers, caliper mounting plate, wheel bearing assembly. Sometimes a
> torch
> is needed to remove the caliper mounting plate, but none of this is rocket
> science. You need to remove the tie rod at the driver side steering yoke.
>
> Once the axles are removed, the carrier needs to be removed. A dealership
> should be able to pop this out in 30 minutes or less. They should have a
> case ------er to make this go smoothly. The carrier needs to be repaired.
> This should also take an hour or less.
>
> Carrier needs to be put back in the diff. Bearings need to be checked for
> proper shims - this should not really change. Care taken to make sure the
> hole in the actuator plate lines up with the actuator switch so you don't
> have to do the job twice.
>
> An entire diff carrier with actuator lists for $645. This does not
> include
> a ring gear. I don't know if the actuator has a separate part number. It
> seems impossible that this part would not be covered by the drive train
> warranty. It is a vital part of the drive train, and it has failed.
>
> In any case I doubt that the labor should take more than four hours with
> an
> experienced mechanic that knows what the inside of a diff looks like.
>
> I'd say that the dealership is estimating high by 200 to 300 dollars.
> This
> is a big job. If the parts are only $400, that is not bad. If you can
> find
> a local axle shop that thinks they can repair your actuator, you might
> save
> some money, but you may be looking at $400 in labor plus parts.
>
> Paul Nelson
>
>
> in article 12kl98vapvbt881@corp.supernews.com, Don Hamilton at
> cdhamil@excite.com wrote on 11/2/06 8:10 PM:
>
>> Well I took my out of warranty (55,000 miles) 05 Rubicon to the dealer to
>> get the non locking front locker checked out (just flashes will not
>> engage).
>> The diagnosis of the problem is a bad actuator and wiring connector. The
>> actuator is not covered by the 7/70,000 drive train warranty. Then I was
>> then told it would take 8 or 9 hours of labor @$75 and $400 in parts to
>> repair. This seems outrageous to me. Any advise?
>>
>>
Thanks for the reply!! I got some good news today the dealer I purchased the
Rubi from is going to turn it into a warranty they provide for used vehicles
and even pay the $100 deductible since it was a pre-sale problem. This
dealership is actually a Ford dealership that is going to pay a Jeep dealer
for the repairs. The Jeep dealer spent about 2 hours making sure it was the
actuator and not the pump. The word they give me is my parts are ordered and
repairs will be made on Wed. It will be cool to see what the Rubi can do
with all 4 locking. Thanks for all! Don

Don Hamilton

"swbell" <kerygma2@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:C170DA5A.537F1%kerygma2@swbell.net...
> There is no wiring inside the diff - it is a simple plunger switch that
> threads into the diff housing from outside.
>
> The actuator is a different story altogether. You need to pull the axles
> and remove the carrier to replace it.
>
> Before I let them mess with it, I would get a simple hand vacuum device
> (any
> parts store) and test the actuator with it. Disconnect the smaller hose
> attached to the diff - the big one is the vent. Attach the hand vacuum's
> OUTPUT port and give it a squeeze. Make sure you have air pressure coming
> out of the hand vacuum. Check to see if it holds pressure. You can raise
> one tire off the ground, then turn it to see if the locker locks and
> unlocks
> when applying air pressure. These lockers are low pressure, so you should
> only need 5-10 lbs.
>
> If the locker actuates while you turn the tire, your problem is in the
> pump
> mounted on the skid plate - not inside the diff.
>
> If you hear a lot of popping and grinding noise, but the locker does not
> lock the tire, OR the tire continues to spin freely, the problem is inside
> the diff. Try pushing on the actuator plate with a screwdriver by
> removing
> the actuator switch. Pushing in with a small amount of force should lock
> the axle.
>
> I think the labor hours are high, because the repair does not require
> removal of the pinion. Removing the pinion is a job that requires extra
> time and skill. Removing the axles on both sides should take about 45
> minutes. The diff needs to be drained. You need to remove the brake
> calipers, caliper mounting plate, wheel bearing assembly. Sometimes a
> torch
> is needed to remove the caliper mounting plate, but none of this is rocket
> science. You need to remove the tie rod at the driver side steering yoke.
>
> Once the axles are removed, the carrier needs to be removed. A dealership
> should be able to pop this out in 30 minutes or less. They should have a
> case ------er to make this go smoothly. The carrier needs to be repaired.
> This should also take an hour or less.
>
> Carrier needs to be put back in the diff. Bearings need to be checked for
> proper shims - this should not really change. Care taken to make sure the
> hole in the actuator plate lines up with the actuator switch so you don't
> have to do the job twice.
>
> An entire diff carrier with actuator lists for $645. This does not
> include
> a ring gear. I don't know if the actuator has a separate part number. It
> seems impossible that this part would not be covered by the drive train
> warranty. It is a vital part of the drive train, and it has failed.
>
> In any case I doubt that the labor should take more than four hours with
> an
> experienced mechanic that knows what the inside of a diff looks like.
>
> I'd say that the dealership is estimating high by 200 to 300 dollars.
> This
> is a big job. If the parts are only $400, that is not bad. If you can
> find
> a local axle shop that thinks they can repair your actuator, you might
> save
> some money, but you may be looking at $400 in labor plus parts.
>
> Paul Nelson
>
>
> in article 12kl98vapvbt881@corp.supernews.com, Don Hamilton at
> cdhamil@excite.com wrote on 11/2/06 8:10 PM:
>
>> Well I took my out of warranty (55,000 miles) 05 Rubicon to the dealer to
>> get the non locking front locker checked out (just flashes will not
>> engage).
>> The diagnosis of the problem is a bad actuator and wiring connector. The
>> actuator is not covered by the 7/70,000 drive train warranty. Then I was
>> then told it would take 8 or 9 hours of labor @$75 and $400 in parts to
>> repair. This seems outrageous to me. Any advise?
>>
>>
Thanks for the reply!! I got some good news today the dealer I purchased the
Rubi from is going to turn it into a warranty they provide for used vehicles
and even pay the $100 deductible since it was a pre-sale problem. This
dealership is actually a Ford dealership that is going to pay a Jeep dealer
for the repairs. The Jeep dealer spent about 2 hours making sure it was the
actuator and not the pump. The word they give me is my parts are ordered and
repairs will be made on Wed. It will be cool to see what the Rubi can do
with all 4 locking. Thanks for all! Don

Don Hamilton

"swbell" <kerygma2@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:C170DA5A.537F1%kerygma2@swbell.net...
> There is no wiring inside the diff - it is a simple plunger switch that
> threads into the diff housing from outside.
>
> The actuator is a different story altogether. You need to pull the axles
> and remove the carrier to replace it.
>
> Before I let them mess with it, I would get a simple hand vacuum device
> (any
> parts store) and test the actuator with it. Disconnect the smaller hose
> attached to the diff - the big one is the vent. Attach the hand vacuum's
> OUTPUT port and give it a squeeze. Make sure you have air pressure coming
> out of the hand vacuum. Check to see if it holds pressure. You can raise
> one tire off the ground, then turn it to see if the locker locks and
> unlocks
> when applying air pressure. These lockers are low pressure, so you should
> only need 5-10 lbs.
>
> If the locker actuates while you turn the tire, your problem is in the
> pump
> mounted on the skid plate - not inside the diff.
>
> If you hear a lot of popping and grinding noise, but the locker does not
> lock the tire, OR the tire continues to spin freely, the problem is inside
> the diff. Try pushing on the actuator plate with a screwdriver by
> removing
> the actuator switch. Pushing in with a small amount of force should lock
> the axle.
>
> I think the labor hours are high, because the repair does not require
> removal of the pinion. Removing the pinion is a job that requires extra
> time and skill. Removing the axles on both sides should take about 45
> minutes. The diff needs to be drained. You need to remove the brake
> calipers, caliper mounting plate, wheel bearing assembly. Sometimes a
> torch
> is needed to remove the caliper mounting plate, but none of this is rocket
> science. You need to remove the tie rod at the driver side steering yoke.
>
> Once the axles are removed, the carrier needs to be removed. A dealership
> should be able to pop this out in 30 minutes or less. They should have a
> case ------er to make this go smoothly. The carrier needs to be repaired.
> This should also take an hour or less.
>
> Carrier needs to be put back in the diff. Bearings need to be checked for
> proper shims - this should not really change. Care taken to make sure the
> hole in the actuator plate lines up with the actuator switch so you don't
> have to do the job twice.
>
> An entire diff carrier with actuator lists for $645. This does not
> include
> a ring gear. I don't know if the actuator has a separate part number. It
> seems impossible that this part would not be covered by the drive train
> warranty. It is a vital part of the drive train, and it has failed.
>
> In any case I doubt that the labor should take more than four hours with
> an
> experienced mechanic that knows what the inside of a diff looks like.
>
> I'd say that the dealership is estimating high by 200 to 300 dollars.
> This
> is a big job. If the parts are only $400, that is not bad. If you can
> find
> a local axle shop that thinks they can repair your actuator, you might
> save
> some money, but you may be looking at $400 in labor plus parts.
>
> Paul Nelson
>
>
> in article 12kl98vapvbt881@corp.supernews.com, Don Hamilton at
> cdhamil@excite.com wrote on 11/2/06 8:10 PM:
>
>> Well I took my out of warranty (55,000 miles) 05 Rubicon to the dealer to
>> get the non locking front locker checked out (just flashes will not
>> engage).
>> The diagnosis of the problem is a bad actuator and wiring connector. The
>> actuator is not covered by the 7/70,000 drive train warranty. Then I was
>> then told it would take 8 or 9 hours of labor @$75 and $400 in parts to
>> repair. This seems outrageous to me. Any advise?
>>
>>
Thanks for the reply!! I got some good news today the dealer I purchased the
Rubi from is going to turn it into a warranty they provide for used vehicles
and even pay the $100 deductible since it was a pre-sale problem. This
dealership is actually a Ford dealership that is going to pay a Jeep dealer
for the repairs. The Jeep dealer spent about 2 hours making sure it was the
actuator and not the pump. The word they give me is my parts are ordered and
repairs will be made on Wed. It will be cool to see what the Rubi can do
with all 4 locking. Thanks for all! Don

Mike chambers

Hay Mike!
Does that bike cable work for shifting the front axel on a YJ?
My vac. lines are nasty and will not shift the axel fork. I've heard
about i think i here. I'll have to try it.
Buy the way it's been in the low 30's here in Mi. And i have yet put
the hard top on. Feel to restrictive with it on.
Thanks.
87YJ33
46Willy's
50Will's


Later Mike